[Kelly]

I'm sorry to keep pressing this issue, since three threads devoted to the subject (in addition to the original thread) have already been locked, but I ask for a moment that the mods try to put themselves in our shoes. Board Feedback is the appropriate place to go when we wish to question moderator behavior and it's upsetting to see that the other three threads have been locked with no room for a back and forth discussion between SAS staff and those who feel that the locking of the original thread was controversial.

Anyway, I think this is something that needs to be addressed in light of recent activities on this board. As maintainer of the Women's Group, I was wondering if women are allowed to discuss their bodies, their bodies' natural function, and medical issues specific to women in the Women's Group. Or will such topics be locked by a moderator, as well?

I must say that I am still very upset that the subject of women and their bodies is now considered a taboo subject on SAS. I find this a horrible step to take on a board that already doesn't have the best reputation in supporting women with SA. (After all, that was why the Women's Group was created.) Please try to think of the bigger picture for a moment and realize that there was a time when women were supposed to be ashamed of their bodies and when menstruation was deemed vile and disgusting, when advertisers weren't even allowed to say the word "tampon" on TV. I was led to believe that this was no longer the situation and that we were making progress as a society.

I did, however, find it very heartening that several guys spoke up in General Discussion who agreed that the thread should not have been locked. Thanks guys. I'm sorry that your thread was locked as well. On a board whose male members often start threads that are overtly misogynistic at times, it's nice to see you take a stand with us.

And, Don, if you needed support about a recent prostate exam, I would hope you would post about it here. This is a board for support after all and I think you know we'd all have your back.

But I don't think that you can make a case that the Diva Cup thread and a thread about a serious medical condition would be similar. The Diva Cup thread was (in my opinion - after all, I don't know. I didn't write it) intended to be lighthearted and funny - which I think makes it that much worse that it was locked.

In any case, my question is specific to the Women's Group. If such topics are still allowed there, anyone wishing to become a member of the group can shoot me a PM or leave me a visitor message. The only qualification is that you need to be female.

Of course, if such topics *are* allowed on the Women's Group, but not on the main board, that also begs the question: Why do "women's" subjects need to be segregated and hidden in a separate part of the board. Are they so shameful? Just some food for thought.

Thank you for your time in reading this.

Have a nice day,
Kelly

 

[AussiePea]

Great post Kelly. The inconsistent moderating here is beginning to boil my blood. I mean looking at the situation from the moderators point of view I could understand if they felt it was unnecessary to have threads regarding topics completely unrelated to SA but if this was the case then every thread in the "fun" section for example would also require closing. However this is not the reasoning, the reasoning is "TMI", and the fact such an important aspect of womanhood is considered "TMI" is ridiculous. Hell that thread was even informative for my ignorant self because I had no idea such devices existed (and neither did some girls!) and it might have even changed the mind of some girls if they felt such a system would be better for them, so in other words a potentially educational thread was closed because a single moderator (I doubt the others were actually included in the decisions) decided that the topic was "icky".

I feel there is too much of an imbalance between male and female moderating rational here and as a result unfair decisions regarding what is appropriate or not are becoming more and more common.

 

[whiterabbit]

I remember a thread sometime last year about diva cups which went on for a few pages and was never locked. What's changed since then? There is no way that discussing your personal health, whether you're a woman talking about periods or a man talking about a prostate exam, is family unfriendly. If you don't want to talk about these things then pass over the thread, just like you would any other thread you don't want to look at, but I can't see any justification for locking it on the grounds that it's inappropriate. Where else are people with SA going to talk about personal health issues?

I'm sure you are allowed to discuss periods in the Women's Group, but not out in the open forum where everyone can see. What do you think it is? The 21st century?

 

[Jrock]

If such topics are still allowed there, anyone wishing to become a member of the group can shoot me a PM or leave me a visitor message. The only qualification is that you need to be female.

That sounds a little discriminative to me. For someone that fights for equal rights, I don't know why you advocate such sexism.

Is it acceptable to have a group on SAS that is "white only"? I am outrage with the way you word your bigotry

 

[AussiePea]

You are missing the point Jrock. If it was to be a group where both males and females could discuss such topics then there would be no reason to not post those discussions on the standard forum which has already been said to be inappropriate. If the mods allow for such discussions in a female only group (which I would find ridiculous as I don't like the idea that moderators could pick and choose who could discuss what based on sex) then so be it, at least it would allow for somewhere where females could discuss important topics such as that.

 

[Kelly]

That sounds a little discriminative to me. For someone that fights for equal rights, I don't know why you advocate such sexism.

Is it acceptable to have a group on SAS that is "white only"? I am outrage with the way you word your bigotry

The Women's Group was created (not by me) as a way to deal with the misogyny and bigotry against women that was (and apparently still is) consistently being posted on SAS. The point is that there are many women here who don't feel comfortable posting their thoughts knowing that they will be attacked by men on the board the second they do so.

I have little sympathy for members of the dominant group who cry "discrimination against us!!!" in order to keep members of every other group subservient and docile.

You are right, however. In an ideal world, having a separate group where woman could feel safe to post thoughts they are too hesitant to post in front of men wouldn't exist. If you are truly committed against sexism and bigotry, you could best help by advocating an end to misogyny in general and on this board.

Furthermore, there is also a Men's Group, if you are so interested.

Have a nice day,
Kelly

 

[rumjungle]

I whole-heartedly agree. I assume since the youngest members are early teenagers that there is no one here who will be 'corrupted' by the discussion of feminine hygiene products. I'm thrilled that I live in a society where such matters are not as taboo as they once were, however I am concerned when such a natural process (that is a big part of creating life) is deemed 'too much information' which for me sends the message that it is gross and something to conceal.

The point being, I think that discussion of health issues including menstruation and reproductive health (not pertaining to anything of an obscene nature) should be considered an acceptable and helpful resource for members. At the very least I think it is not at all unreasonable that women can discuss it freely in the Women's Group. Though as Kelly and Whiterabbit have suggested it connotes a regressive attitude more akin to the first half of the 20th century.

If threads with 'too much information' can be deemed inappropriate and closed then I'd like to know why other topics such as bodily harm, bowel functions and meds interfering with sexual fulfilment are not locked.

I also find nothing affronting or offensive about a discussion of a prostate checkup, early detection is important as prostate cancer is a big killer because many men are hesitant to have prostate exams. A thread raising awareness and allaying concerns for others would be all too helpful.

 

[GermanHermit]

I didn't read either of the mentioned threads but I've been around long enough to have formed an opinion over the years.

I agree that women should be allowed to talk about "their" subjects openly if they wish!

But most of the time I can't help myself to conceived them (as well as the men's subjects!) as nothing more than self-display and to attract attention. And a locking of the threads often stops people making a complete fool of themselves and saves many from publishing more intimate details about themselves for their own good.

Please do not forget that some people are turned on and get their kicks esp by reading intimate things from others! And some posters seem to take that into account and play with it IMO!

I like the idea that Kelly created a women's group. If women have a genuine need to discuss their subjects why don't they do it there?

Aside from that I don't care if they continue posting on the main forum but then they have to accept the decisions of the staff. A thread-lock-warning in advance is always good, though!

 

[jer]

Kelly and Emerita,

Please forgive me for digressing , but I wanted to ask this for a long time -

You both are in Germany, but write pitch perfect english. I thought Germans had a hard time with english. Were you taught english as kids? I am wondering. It is awesome.


Now please continue the discussion.

 

[nothing to fear]

thanks, i'm glad to see i'm not the only one who feels the same.

since i can't respond to MM75's post in the other locked thread: topics such as this that relate to menstruation even if it's just the particular choice of feminine hygeine product can very much be related to social anxiety. i'm sure i can find a lot of girls who would agree and who don't even have SA, that growing up when you are around that age getting your period, or any worry related to it, coudl bring a huge amount of anxiety. it was probably a bigger deal than guys know. but among just peers, i remember girls who got it early were teased about it, or would have to deal with gossip. that was hard for some of them. some of us also might not have grown up with an older sister or mother who was there to openly talk about it which would leave us alone with worrying about what would happen and what we would do if we got it, what if we don't get it at the normal time that the other girls do, etc. even if you were talked about it, if you get it when you are in a place where you can't comfortably tell someone about it and you don't know what to do, you can feel a ton of anxiety since you feel all alone and clueless.
i went through that about age 12-13 so i'm very used to it now, but i'm sure it's possible that there are girls at SAS who do go through it and because of SA they are scared to go to anyone in person (some girls can get it much later).

there is also anxiety that one could go through now at an older age, related to menstruation. i can think of a few things that can currently make my SA worse in relation to this topic, and i could give specifics to the mods if they truly don't believe it's a topic that's unrelated to social anxiety.

and i know that my original thread was much more light-hearted, and it wasn't completely related to SA, but that's still not something i could just bring up with anyone and i was intending it more to vent. i'm glad it was successful, also because it got a few girls to know about that particular feminine hygiene products because i think it's great P).
and hell, why shouldn't we be able to talk about it in a joking manner? there isn't anything wrong with that, after all there are hundreds of other threads here that are intended to be light-hearted and on the humourous side. in fact altering that topic in that way makes it easier to talk about openly and stimulates discussion (saturday night live, anyone??), since it did get some attention.

Amocheles, as for the comparison to not wanting to hear about the prostrate exam, that's another topic that i strongly believe should be openly talked about. i don't need to hear about that because, well i dont' even have a prostrate. but considering how important it could be for men in saving their life, no one should feel it's TMI to talk about as it should be promoted that men get it done, and i think it would also relate to SA quite a bit. i can bet that if i asked around even males in my life who don't have SA would be nervous about getting it. if that becomes such a "taboo" topic here men not even realize its importance.

it shouldn't be necessary for women to have to whisper about such topics behind the backs of everyone else because it's deemed as inappropriate and offensive. as a few others have mentioned, that was expected for a very very long time. the first advertisements for menstrual products were considered completely shocking. societal attitudes regarding the acceptance to talk openly about menstruation have changed drastically since then, and they should continue to change but banning any talk of menstruation from this board is going in the completely opposite direction.

i was thinking of posting links that describe that history in much more detail but they mention the word "blood" and there might be some children reading

i hope this is an issue that can be brought to the attention of all the mods and that they review them together, because i don't feel it has been fairly addressed so far

 

[WineKitty]

What I didnt like in the last thread about this is the mention of the GLBT forum, which always seems to be likened to any argument anyone has about anything around here. Cheap shots like that dont help anyone accomplish anything.

I guess I really didnt think about the overall representation it has for women on this board so I am glad that its been pointed out. Kelly has made a very well worded argument and I hope that it gets the consideration it deserves.

 

[nothing to fear]

i didn't see how the GLBT forum was related as well, and it's going astray from the issue we are trying to focus on anyway so it's not really necessary.

 

[Scrub-Zero]

I remember a thread sometime last year about diva cups which went on for a few pages and was never locked. What's changed since then?

Maybe it's because SAS got a new owner. New owner, new rules.

 

[nothing to fear]

sorry but, how did you come to the conclusion that it was simply for attention? you can say that for just about any other thread made here.

 

[nothing to fear]

if you are implying that i posted about the diva cup for the "shock value" of the topic then that is pretty off-base as i didn't even consider what i posted to be inappropriate, offensive or shocking in the slightest bit. not to mention the fact that i actually had a legitimate purpose for the thread as i was seeking advice as to what to do. it didn't seem necessary to dance around the topic and say "i dropped something in the toilet, can someone tell me how to get that something out of the toilet?" when there was absolutely no harm in being up front as to what it is and what is its purpose. *shrugs*

 

[Jrock]

I have no problem with the GLBT section, but my point is if this site is sooooo family oriented then why is there a GLBT section. Most families wouldn't describe GLBT material (whether its in sexual content or not), FAMILY FRIENDLY.

What I didnt like in the last thread about this is the mention of the GLBT forum, which always seems to be likened to any argument anyone has about anything around here. Cheap shots like that dont help anyone accomplish anything.

I guess I really didnt think about the overall representation it has for women on this board so I am glad that its been pointed out. Kelly has made a very well worded argument and I hope that it gets the consideration it deserves.

 

[whiterabbit]

Discussing women's issues openly is a good thing. Posting about them in order to attract prurient attention is not. The "diva cup" thread clearly falls into that category. So it's obvious why the moderators pulled the plug on it.

Even if that were true, which I don't believe it is, it's not why the thread was locked at all. It was locked because, to quote the mods, it was "too much information", "discussion of feminine hygiene products is a bit much", we're a "family friendly" site and it contained "links to websites" which kids should be protected from for their own safety. At what age do some people think we learn about periods? We're educated about these things in schools when we're about 10/11. And if you're not then you should be. This isn't a subject anyone of any age needs to be protected from, and neither are prostate exams. We've had threads about smear tests, post-new owner and all this "family friendly" business, which have gone unlocked. What's the difference? There's a constipation thread going strong in Secondary Disorders. Why isn't that TMI?

As for it having nothing to do with SA, which was another reason given, it was posted in the General Discussion section. If we're not allowed to post anything unrelated to anxiety in there then you'd better close the whole thing down. And as nothing to fear said, there are plenty of cases in which it can be related to anxiety so people shouldn't shouldn't have to feel that they can't post about these things.

Rather than locking 5 threads over this matter I just wish a little bit of common sense could have been exercised. It's ok to hold up your hands and admit you made a mistake if you're a moderator. It's a difficult job and you're bound to get some things wrong. But you can listen to people when they disagree and you can even say "Yes, you're right!" You don't have to be infallible.

I will now leave the internet for one week to get over the embarrassment of posting something so confrontational. And long. I didn't realise it was that long. Sorry.

 

[BeNice]

Women are not allowed to discuss what they want in their own private group? Please tell me you have a separate moderator....

 

[zookeeper]

I have to agree that I've seen what seems to be a fair amount of discussion surrounding the sexual side effects of medications (mostly from males), which makes me wonder why a thread on a subject affecting women's health (and an admittedly light-hearted one at that) would be shut down.

 

[Aurora]

Great post.

My post was deleted altogether. I just stated alot of what other people are saying and agree with. Perhaps I wasnt as articulate as this thread. Shame on you mods. You hit a raw nerve with alot of people.