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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
what does it mean? Does it mean that the drug failed to raise serotonin levels? Or that serotonin isn't that patient's problem? That it could be either of those issues? Or that it could be something else?

Are there any studies showing if SSRIs definitely do raise serotonin levels in basically everyone? I'm not sure how that would be measured, though we know that many fail to respond.
 

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what do you mean fail? do you have depression?
when i say anti depressants fail, I mean they have wayyy too many side effects. Some people actually dont get any efficinacy at all. I think adhd/add meds have alot of anti dperessant properties.
Id say if they dont make you feel normal then they arnt probably for you. Youre looking for something to normalize you.
 

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what does it mean? Does it mean that the drug failed to raise serotonin levels? Or that serotonin isn't that patient's problem? That it could be either of those issues? Or that it could be something else?
When intrasynaptic serotonin levels are increased with SSRIs, a number of unwanted receptor subtypes are activated (as well as the good ones), including 5-HT1B and 5-HT1D, and many subtypes of 5-HT1-7. Some of these inhibit the levels of serotonin, while others just produce anxiety and dysphoria. The increased activity at "good" receptors like 5-HT1A counterbalances this to a minor extent.

The dysphoria I described above half disappears when the regulatory 5-HT receptors apparently desensitise to excessive stimulation, or something like that. Your still have other unwanted receptors being stimulated, which is possibly the reason SSRIs don't produce much feeling of happiness in people, more a feeling of neutrality. Positive effects and negative psychological effects are huge, yet totally counterbalancing each other. The result is, your natural daily ups and downs of mood become insignificant in effect against such powerful influences, so nothing really matters any more.
 

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I'm curious about this too. I've tried several ssri's and they did NOTHING for me - actually make me feel worse with the bonus of sexual side effects. I guess this means serotonin isn't my issue?
Same here. I've taken several different kinds of meds, both SSRIs and tri-cyclic medications, and got all of the side effects without any of the benefits they promise. I'm desperate enough to try something like this:

http://www.articlepros.com/Health-and-Fitness/depression/article-196538.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The dysphoria I described above half disappears when the regulatory 5-HT receptors apparently desensitise to excessive stimulation, or something like that. Your still have other unwanted receptors being stimulated, which is possibly the reason SSRIs don't produce much feeling of happiness in people, more a feeling of neutrality. Positive effects and negative psychological effects are huge, yet totally counterbalancing each other. The result is, your natural daily ups and downs of mood become insignificant in effect against such powerful influences, so nothing really matters any more.
What about literally no mood/mind-altering effect whatsoever (as I got with Paxil, Prozac, Lexapro, and Zoloft) rather than the numb "nothing really matters" effect you describe? Other than sexual effects with all of them and sweating with Paxil I could not find any effect from any of them on mood, anxiety levels, nor OCD.

As for the question asked above by somebody else, it's been years since I've taken any SSRI and back then I did not have the severe depression that I have now. I've always had mild depression at least. Now it's more of the variety that would make me want to do things that SAS has rules that say one can't discuss and it has been at this severe level since late 2005, though it's not like I was ever happy before that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Really I don't think a "chemical imbalance of serotonin" is anybody's actual problem. That's nothing more than marketing hype.
I seem to recall reading the other year that the way SSRIs work is more complex than simply raising serotonin levels since they up them within a day yet we all know they take weeks to have any effect and for a large percentage of patients they don't help, so it has to be more complex than basically filling a gas tank.
 

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Tricyclics and MAOI's are sometimes more effective than SSRI's. The side effects can be worse though.

SSRI's simply don't work for everyone. I'm not sure why. Maybe your serotonin levels are low to begin with? I know ssri's don't actually increase overall serotonin levels, they just increase the concentration of serotonin in the synapses. Does that matter? I don't really know.

Other antidepressants affect neurotransmitters othan than serotonin. Bupropion for example works on noripeniphrin and dopamine. Effexor works on serotonin and noripeniphrin.

It's a little odd to me that ssri's don't have any effect on your mood whatsoever. I don't know enough about how the brain works to explain that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Bupropion for example works on noripeniphrin and dopamine.
Ah, Wellbutrin, the drug that to me is useless even at 450 mg except as an appetite suppressant. I must admit that it beats other stuff I've tried in that at least the side effect is a good one, even if the drug other wise doesn't work. Other stuff doesn't work other, but can have side effects from hell. The most notably drugs from hell are Zyprexa -- that makes one eat everything in sight, gaining a stunning 25# in only 6 weeks and imipramine that makes even an Atheist start praying for pee after standing before a toilet for 20 minutes & sip a beverage every minute to combat a mouth dryer than one would imagine was even possible.
 

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You have to try a MAOI like Parnate or Nardil.
 

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You could always try selegiline. It's less risky compared to Nardil and Parnate, and it's pretty cheap (like, $30 for #60x5mg capsules at drugstore.com)
 

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i just dont really understand your logic

you admitted you are suicidal yet you wont try Nardil or Parnate because of the risks? makes no sense to me
Yeah, when you can kill yourself, you can also try MAOIs first!

I'm just reading there may be a theory thats shows that people with high histamine react better to antidepressants (but also the most side effects) and low histamine response better to benzodiazepines.
http://www.nutritional-healing.com....ing=Major Mental Illness Biochemical Subtypes
Interesting. I have hay fever and dust mite allergy. Allergy sufferer have high histamine, right? So they should respond better to ADs? :D

You could always try selegiline. It's less risky compared to Nardil and Parnate, and it's pretty cheap (like, $30 for #60x5mg capsules at drugstore.com)
Yeah, that's a good option to the "real" MAOIs. Until 10mg there's also no special diet to be followed.
 

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MAOI risks are really nothing to worry about if you avoid tyramine-rich foods and don't take drugs without a doctor's say so. To be honest, those self-medicating or taking recreational drugs should know how enough to avoid the interactions anyway.

I don't recommend selegiline for social anxiety. It'd probably be quite effective if it purely raised dopamine, but it appears to contain an adrenergic, stimulating element that can make anxiety worse in many. This renders its effects closer to that of Wellbutrin, and possibly even further on the anxiogenic scale.
 

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Ah, Wellbutrin, the drug that to me is useless even at 450 mg except as an appetite suppressant. I must admit that it beats other stuff I've tried in that at least the side effect is a good one, even if the drug other wise doesn't work. Other stuff doesn't work other, but can have side effects from hell. The most notably drugs from hell are Zyprexa -- that makes one eat everything in sight, gaining a stunning 25# in only 6 weeks and imipramine that makes even an Atheist start praying for pee after standing before a toilet for 20 minutes & sip a beverage every minute to combat a mouth dryer than one would imagine was even possible.
Lol, I think I gained about 20 pounds in three weeks on zyprexa. I'm surprised you stayed on it for 6 weeks. You can't say you didn't give it a chance.

As strange as it sounds, some people claim that medical marijuana helps depression. Although you could also find just as many people if not more who would say the reverse, that it worsens depression. But at least it is strong enough that it would have SOME effect on you, whether good or bad.

What kind of depression do you have? Are you numb and apathetic? Or is it more emotional, like you have feelings of guilt and sadness? Psychiatrists have about 10 different categories of depression. I would imagine different kinds of depression would call for different treatments.
 

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When I smoke weed, it intensifies whatever emotions I have. If I'm sad, I mull over whatever negative thoughts I have in my mind. If I'm happy, my mood can be pushed into ecstasy. Based on that, I wouldn't recommend cannabis for depression, 'cept for the less emotional types of depression.
 

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You clearly haven't figured out how to persuade me yet. The more someone pushes me the less likely I am to do something. I'm one stubborn SOB.
I took Nardil for a couple months and never had any bad food interactions. None. I ate all the same foods I ate before (pizzas, burgers, pastas, etc.) and nothing ever happened.

The only major side effect I had was anorgasmia, worse than any medicine I've ever taken. It slowly went away for the most part, but by that time I stopped taking nardil because it wasn't working. :/
 

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I took Nardil for a couple months and never had any bad food interactions. None. I ate all the same foods I ate before (pizzas, burgers, pastas, etc.) and nothing ever happened.

The only major side effect I had was anorgasmia, worse than any medicine I've ever taken. It slowly went away for the most part, but by that time I stopped taking nardil because it wasn't working. :/
what's your dosage? If its relatively low I can see how the diet aspect of it wouldn't affect you negatively.
 
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