Social Anxiety Support Forum banner
1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The question is on the title... what are the neurotransmitter deficiency that induces Social anxiety?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,394 Posts
many, many, many. Medical science cannot definitively answer this question. "Neurotransmitter deficiency" is what psychological problems are blamed on, but there is much more involved when it comes Social Anxiety.
 

·
SAS's Chief Meteorologist
Joined
·
7,539 Posts
There is no "neurotransmitter deficiency" involved in social anxiety. It's actually a built in mechanism that helped humans survive as a species. The problem is with perception. People with SAD perceive danger where others don't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
There is no "neurotransmitter deficiency" involved in social anxiety. It's actually a built in mechanism that helped humans survive as a species. The problem is with perception. People with SAD perceive danger where others don't.
yes, but for sure, it involves neurotransmitter! The question is, what neurotransmitter?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,394 Posts
yes, but for sure, it involves neurotransmitter! The question is, what neurotransmitter?
Neurophysiology is not so simple. No one can say "Social Anxiety is caused by a deficiency of Neurotransmitter(s) X"

Neurotransmitter activity is only part of brain activity. Much more goes on in the mind than NT activity, currently most medications used to treat Social anxiety are based on the idea of inhibiting the re-uptake of certain NT's, so most people are brainwashed into thinking that Neurotransmitter deficiency is to blame for many mental disorders. But that is only the current paradigm of thinking. Who knows what 'causes' Social anxiety, it is not as simple as a deficiency of a few Neurotransmitters. The mind is so complex and it is not fully understood by the medical community. If everything about the mind were known, the mental illness would be eradicated.
 

·
Cheesus
Joined
·
4,144 Posts
If you want to know which neurotransmitter, if superficially increased, relieves anxiety the answer is serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, histamine, Gaba, glutamate, among others :p

It really is not that simple and this is why doctors will have to do trial and error with different drugs. Some of the most popular drugs act on GABA. Drugs like Effexor work on serotonin and norepinephrine. Man the list goes on :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
The question is on the title... what are the neurotransmitter deficiency that induces Social anxiety?
I would say people with social anxiety have dysfunction on many of the neurotransmitters. Mostly Dopamine, serotonin, Gaba
 

·
Going to war
Joined
·
3,928 Posts
It from over masterbating bro lolol j/k
 

·
SAS's Chief Meteorologist
Joined
·
7,539 Posts
It's from an overly active amygdala.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
38,431 Posts
I don't buy that serotonin is the issue given that SSRIs are worse than useless to me.

I'd say GABA & dopamine, though I know that's grossly oversimplified.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,394 Posts
I don't buy that serotonin is the issue given that SSRIs are worse than useless to me.

I'd say GABA & dopamine, though I know that's grossly oversimplified.
Very good. The serotonin theory is Bull$hit. My psychiatrist is highly renowned and spends about six months of the year giving lessons to other p-docs. She told me that the Serotonin theory is bull$hit, That's when I knew I had found a good psychiatrist.

Taking a lot of benzos; GABA, and either stimulants or opiates; (dopamine) helps me the most.

I suspect that >90% of psychiatrists will tell you that a lack of enough serotonin is the cause of anxiety, depression, and ocd, and many other psychiatric disorders. But they are wrong >90% of the time. Doctors aren't lying, they are just telling you what the pharmaceutical sales Representatives told them when the miracle cure called prozac first came out back in the late 80's.

That is why I keep posting about how this idea of social anxiety being as simple as merely a deficiency of some neurotransmitter is ludicrous. There is so much more going on in the brain that just changing the amount of neurotransmitter is not going to be a solution. Psychiatric illness has been oversimplified by both doctors and patients. Matters of the mind are often oversimplified because much of it is a great big mystery and scientists/doctors hate to say "I don't know."
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
38,431 Posts
Very good. The serotonin theory is Bull$hit. My psychiatrist is highly renowned and spends about six months of the year giving lessons to other p-docs. She told me that the Serotonin theory is bull$hit, That's when I knew I had found a good psychiatrist.
They sure do sell a $hitload of pills that are supposed to increase serotonin, both SSRIs & SNRIs. I know it helps with premature ejaculation, so I've tried seven drugs that treat a disorder I've never had. Can also really help with excessive sex drive, perhaps useful for sex addicts who don't want to risk getting caught with their penis where it doesn't belong.

Taking a lot of benzos; GABA, and either stimulants or opiates; (dopamine) helps me the most.
I'd rate stimulants very highly, so dopamine. Benzos don't do much for me, though alcohol works so there we have GABA. Could try other GABA drugs, but we have a war on good drugs and the medical community is a big f'ing ***** that cares more about safety than efficacy. Yum, some nice safe sugar pills to munch on.:mum
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,945 Posts
yes, but for sure, it involves neurotransmitter! The question is, what neurotransmitter?
IMO, dopamine and noradrenaline together play a HUGE role while serotonin plays a minor role. This is based on little bits of evidence I've seen first hand. I'm not basing this on wiki or google searching. If anyone has difference experiences, I would love to read about them.

Amphetamine makes people talk.
I've seen super shy people become extremely talkative on amphetamine (a dopamine releasing agent). They can talk for hours on end about anything. The difference still shocks me every time I see it. Amphetamine people are fun to debate with because they are some of the most intense debaters you will ever meet.

Antipsychotics make people withdraw.
I had one of my gf's lorasidone (dopamine D2 and D3 antagonist) pills a couple days ago, and it made me very withdrawn. I didn't want to talk to people or listen to people. I just wanted to crawl into a hole and be left alone. My gf had similar feelings while taking this drug. She wasn't her usual self. She didn't suggest doing things, and she didn't talk as much. My mom noted that it was very unusual to not get a hug from my gf; the only time my gf has ever not hugged my mom when saying goodbye was when my gf was on lorasidone.
Olanzapine was even worse, but it's hard to attribute olanzapine's effects on behavior to it's dopamine blocking effects since it also hits several other receptors. That would be like crashing a car into a wall at the same time as being shot with a rifle then trying to determine which one caused the person to die.

L-Tyrosine makes me more social.
I feel slightly more talkative and alive when having L-tyrosine supplements. L-tyrosine is an amino acid that turns into L-DOPA before turning into dopamine.
I thought 5-HTP would do that because everyone, including doctors, said serotonin was the social neurotransmitter, but all that did was make me feel physically ill and slightly more socially withdrawn. Other people have told me 5-HTP makes them feel relaxed, but not necessarily more social. This leads me to think dopamine makes people social, but serotonin makes them relax. As said before, a powerful dopamine drug like amphetamine makes people talk, but they sure don't look relaxed. A more balanced dopamine-serotonin mix caused by the drug MDMA is less talkative but more relaxed than straight amphetamine, so this would support my hypothesis.

Most SSRI drugs didn't make me more social.
SSRI drugs like paroxetine and sertraline have minimal effects on dopamine, and those did not make me more social. Sertraline had a mostly neutral effect where I didn't feel more or less social, but paroxetine had a very noticable anti-social effect. I just wanted to be alone on that drug. Fluoxetine was the most pro-social SSRI, and some quick google searching shows that fluoxetine causes significant dopamine increases in the brains of rats. In addition to being an SSRI, fluoxetine also shows some effects as an MAO-A inhibitor which would explain why it increases dopamine, and that would explain why it helped so much.

Bupropion was more social than any SSRI.
Before jumping to MAOI drugs, bupropion was my main drug. It helped a lot with feeling alive and wanting to do things with people. Rather than being an SSRI, bupropion is a dopamine-noradrenaline drug. My gf was on bupropion for a while, and she liked it too. In her words, it made her more "aware" of her body, she stopped constantly dislocating her knees, and she wanted to do things with people instead of sit around all day. It could be the dopamine or it could be the noradrenaline, but one of them helps a lot.

Ephedrine helps a lot.
Ephedrine is apparently a noradrenaline releasing agent. I love ephedrine and I take it every day. It makes me feel more alive, and I have more optimistic plans. If I'm not too sure about wanting to do something with people, taking ephedrine changes that to a definite yes every time.

MAOI drugs are the most effective.
Moclobemide was more social than fluoxetine, and moclobemide is an MAO-A inhibitor, so it increases dopamine. Phenelzine blows both of those other drugs out of the water. Phenelzine is a non-selective MAO-A and MAO-B inhibitor, so it has significantly stronger dopamine effects.

Based on what I have seen and experienced, I conclude the following:
-dopamine almost always causes extroversion and optimism (everything can be fixed)
-dopamine cures depression (feel awesome for no reason)
-serotonin does not cure depression nor does it cause extroversion
-serotonin cures anxiety (don't worry if things screw up)
-noradrenaline seems to amplify emotions without changing the direction of emotions, so social behavior becomes more social, but anxiety becomes more intense anxiety

I can give an example of optimistic actions vs not caring. On Dexedrine or Vyvanse (strong dopamine drugs), I would do things and fix everything. Clutter would be sorted so it's not cluttered anymore. Loneliness would be fixed by calling people and doing stuff.
Fluoxetine (an SSRI) would deal with the same problems in a more passive way. Clutter would stay cluttered, but it didn't bother me as much. Loneliness would just go away; I didn't feel compelled to call people and do things because I felt ok being alone.

If everything about the mind were known, the mental illness would be eradicated.
IMO, the biggest road block is idiot doctors. Suppose you go to the doctor and you say you're depressed. He gives you Paxil, a serotonin drug. That doesn't work, so then he gives you Zoloft, another serotonin drug. That doesn't work, so he gives you Celexa, another serotonin drug. How many times does he need to try the same damn thing before realizing serotonin is not the answer? Can you imagine how crappy these people would be if they worked in any other job? You bring your car in with a rattle, so they replace the valves. That didn't work, so let's replace the valves again. The car still rattles??? Let's replace the valves one more time; I'm sure it will work this time! The car still rattles. Not knowing what else to try, he asks the other mechanics if they know of other ways to replace the valves. God help these idiots.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
I cannot imagine a person having SA who either:

has totally much muscle mass
can do martial arts
has a gun

How can you have SA when you carry a gun?
??? please elaborate
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
IMO, dopamine and noradrenaline together play a HUGE role while serotonin plays a minor role. This is based on little bits of evidence I've seen first hand. I'm not basing this on wiki or google searching. If anyone has difference experiences, I would love to read about them.

Amphetamine makes people talk.
I've seen super shy people become extremely talkative on amphetamine (a dopamine releasing agent). They can talk for hours on end about anything. The difference still shocks me every time I see it. Amphetamine people are fun to debate with because they are some of the most intense debaters you will ever meet.

Antipsychotics make people withdraw.
I had one of my gf's lorasidone (dopamine D2 and D3 antagonist) pills a couple days ago, and it made me very withdrawn. I didn't want to talk to people or listen to people. I just wanted to crawl into a hole and be left alone. My gf had similar feelings while taking this drug. She wasn't her usual self. She didn't suggest doing things, and she didn't talk as much. My mom noted that it was very unusual to not get a hug from my gf; the only time my gf has ever not hugged my mom when saying goodbye was when my gf was on lorasidone.
Olanzapine was even worse, but it's hard to attribute olanzapine's effects on behavior to it's dopamine blocking effects since it also hits several other receptors. That would be like crashing a car into a wall at the same time as being shot with a rifle then trying to determine which one caused the person to die.

L-Tyrosine makes me more social.
I feel slightly more talkative and alive when having L-tyrosine supplements. L-tyrosine is an amino acid that turns into L-DOPA before turning into dopamine.
I thought 5-HTP would do that because everyone, including doctors, said serotonin was the social neurotransmitter, but all that did was make me feel physically ill and slightly more socially withdrawn. Other people have told me 5-HTP makes them feel relaxed, but not necessarily more social. This leads me to think dopamine makes people social, but serotonin makes them relax. As said before, a powerful dopamine drug like amphetamine makes people talk, but they sure don't look relaxed. A more balanced dopamine-serotonin mix caused by the drug MDMA is less talkative but more relaxed than straight amphetamine, so this would support my hypothesis.

Most SSRI drugs didn't make me more social.
SSRI drugs like paroxetine and sertraline have minimal effects on dopamine, and those did not make me more social. Sertraline had a mostly neutral effect where I didn't feel more or less social, but paroxetine had a very noticable anti-social effect. I just wanted to be alone on that drug. Fluoxetine was the most pro-social SSRI, and some quick google searching shows that fluoxetine causes significant dopamine increases in the brains of rats. In addition to being an SSRI, fluoxetine also shows some effects as an MAO-A inhibitor which would explain why it increases dopamine, and that would explain why it helped so much.

Bupropion was more social than any SSRI.
Before jumping to MAOI drugs, bupropion was my main drug. It helped a lot with feeling alive and wanting to do things with people. Rather than being an SSRI, bupropion is a dopamine-noradrenaline drug. My gf was on bupropion for a while, and she liked it too. In her words, it made her more "aware" of her body, she stopped constantly dislocating her knees, and she wanted to do things with people instead of sit around all day. It could be the dopamine or it could be the noradrenaline, but one of them helps a lot.

Ephedrine helps a lot.
Ephedrine is apparently a noradrenaline releasing agent. I love ephedrine and I take it every day. It makes me feel more alive, and I have more optimistic plans. If I'm not too sure about wanting to do something with people, taking ephedrine changes that to a definite yes every time.

MAOI drugs are the most effective.
Moclobemide was more social than fluoxetine, and moclobemide is an MAO-A inhibitor, so it increases dopamine. Phenelzine blows both of those other drugs out of the water. Phenelzine is a non-selective MAO-A and MAO-B inhibitor, so it has significantly stronger dopamine effects.

Based on what I have seen and experienced, I conclude the following:
-dopamine almost always causes extroversion and optimism (everything can be fixed)
-dopamine cures depression (feel awesome for no reason)
-serotonin does not cure depression nor does it cause extroversion
-serotonin cures anxiety (don't worry if things screw up)
-noradrenaline seems to amplify emotions without changing the direction of emotions, so social behavior becomes more social, but anxiety becomes more intense anxiety

I can give an example of optimistic actions vs not caring. On Dexedrine or Vyvanse (strong dopamine drugs), I would do things and fix everything. Clutter would be sorted so it's not cluttered anymore. Loneliness would be fixed by calling people and doing stuff.
Fluoxetine (an SSRI) would deal with the same problems in a more passive way. Clutter would stay cluttered, but it didn't bother me as much. Loneliness would just go away; I didn't feel compelled to call people and do things because I felt ok being alone.

IMO, the biggest road block is idiot doctors. Suppose you go to the doctor and you say you're depressed. He gives you Paxil, a serotonin drug. That doesn't work, so then he gives you Zoloft, another serotonin drug. That doesn't work, so he gives you Celexa, another serotonin drug. How many times does he need to try the same damn thing before realizing serotonin is not the answer? Can you imagine how crappy these people would be if they worked in any other job? You bring your car in with a rattle, so they replace the valves. That didn't work, so let's replace the valves again. The car still rattles??? Let's replace the valves one more time; I'm sure it will work this time! The car still rattles. Not knowing what else to try, he asks the other mechanics if they know of other ways to replace the valves. God help these idiots.
good points
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top