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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I've found out that SSRI's and stuff like Selegeline don't work for me. My 'cure' is Klonopin (or other benzo's but haven't tried yet) + Clonidine + Beta blocker.
I suffer from severe facial blushing and mostly from the fear of it. I found out that Clonidine and Propanolol lessen the actual blushing and flushing, while Klonopin (2mg) lessens the fear of it.
When i'm on this combo my blushing and the fear of it are reduced to almost 0. Only in very stressfull events i still feel the fear of blushing, but i think that's normal, because every human being experiences some kind of fear in very stressfull events.
Because my blushing was the root of my SA, i feel my SA is becoming less and less every day. When i know i won't blush i am confident and can do almost all the things i can't when i know i will blush.
I've done some personality tests recently and tested ESFJ every time so i know (and already knew) blushing is the cause of my SA and not the other way around.
Sorry for the long story, now my actual question.
Because i know of the tolerance problems with Klonopin and Phenibut, i want to ask if there are any substitutes that are almost as effective?
I'm thinking of 3 days Klonopin, 2 days Phenibut and 2 days substitute.
There is no option for a weekend break, because i have some social activities in the weekends.
I've tried Inositol, L-Glutamine, L-Theanine and Kava kava, but these don't really come close to Klonopin.
I know of barbitures but i don't know if i want to try them. The same for GHB. I think it's too dangerous.
Are there any other safe substitutes i can try?

Thank you very much,

Jeffrey
 

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You may try Picamilon. GHB/GBL or Phenobarbital would for sure work, but are not without risks and harder to obtain. If you live in the US forget about GHB. IMHO Pheno is not more risky than a Benzo, the fast-acting barbiturates are evil and can never be compared with the very slow acting Phenobarbital.
 

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You are ;)
 

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I recommend niacinamide. Not from personal experience, but from rave reviews on the internet. Comes just behind Klon on revolutionhealth.com.

Mine's arriving tomorrow...
 

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IMHO Pheno is not more risky than a Benzo, the fast-acting barbiturates are evil and can never be compared with the very slow acting Phenobarbital.
Is there any difference in effect other than speed of action between pheno and fast-acting barbs?

While barbs like Seconal & Nembutal are technically legal as C-II drugs, I bet no pharmacist under the age of 80 has ever seen a prescription for them in their entire career and then it would be a case of him handing them out when he was a young fella just fresh out of pharmacy school. Technically legal, though banned for home use for all practical purposes.
 

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I don't really understand why barbs are schedule II and alcohol (ethanol) is legal. Pretty much identical effects, only one rapes your liver.
 

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I don't really understand why barbs are schedule II and alcohol (ethanol) is legal. Pretty much identical effects, only one rapes your liver.
It all has to do with history. Barbs date back only about a century.

Germany is famous for beer, just as France is famous for wine. Europeans have been enjoying beer, wine, and liquor for so very long that it doesn't scare them in the least. It's hard to be afraid of something like alcohol that (at least in WI) is literally in every grocery store, sold at every sporting event, and found in most homes. Doesn't the bible even have their main character turning water into wine? Don't Catholics drink wine at Sunday service that is supposed to represent the blood of their main man?

Alcohol production & consumption has a long and rich history in Western civilization. Barbs have a history that perhaps 1/60 as long. History makes all the difference in the world.

There is also the practical matter of you can't effectively ban alcohol since you can produce booze by fermenting any grain, fruit, or sugar cane. The DEA can't very well burn down the state of Iowa to get rid of corn, a precursor to moonshine.
 

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I don't really understand why barbs are schedule II and alcohol (ethanol) is legal. Pretty much identical effects, only one rapes your liver.
Except for phenobarb that is C-IV just like benzos.
 

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While barbs like Seconal & Nembutal are technically legal as C-II drugs, I bet no pharmacist under the age of 80 has ever seen a prescription for them in their entire career and then it would be a case of him handing them out when he was a young fella just fresh out of pharmacy school. Technically legal, though banned for home use for all practical purposes.
I think also younger pharmacists have seen prescriptions for Nembutal in some states for the purpose of euthanasia at least at some time. It's the perfect drug for a peaceful death. Phenobarbital is pretty safe in overdose (@ mono-intoxication), Primidone even more so.

I don't really understand why barbs are schedule II and alcohol (ethanol) is legal. Pretty much identical effects, only one rapes your liver.
Let's make beer a schedule II controlled substance. Write a nice letter for the DEA/FDA and we all sign it... ;)

Would switching between klonopin and valium prevent tolerance since they both work on different gaba receptors?
That won't work out, both modulate GABA-A receptors.
 

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Let's make beer a schedule II controlled substance. Write a nice letter for the DEA/FDA and we all sign it... ;)
I have a better idea: how about the people running our countries grow some balls and let us decide what we put into our own bodies, or at least make law based on scientific fact rather than their dumbass [probably religious] opinion. Not long ago, the UK government rejected advice from a panel of experts on cannabis, and upgraded it to B again. Who the f**k do these clowns think they are?

Sorry, turned that into another rant.

Maybe it's worth campaigning to ban alcohol purely to show them their hypocrisy and demonstrate how pathetic prohibition is.

(My niacinamide should arrive today; I'll update this thread with results.)
 

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Allowing people free access to fast acting barbiturates would do severe harm, they can't even handle benzos... lol ... We are talking about drugs that are effectively used for euthanasia!
 

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Maybe we should introduce a mandatory written test for those wishing to regulate their own drug-use, as well as signing a disclaimer saying "I will accept responsibility for any harm that comes to myself or others as a result of this". The test could have questions like "Is it safe to mix alcohol and benzodiazepines?". Of course, this is just a pipe dream.

UltraShy -- if you want to take opioids for your issues, have you considered kratom? It's a legal plant that contains an opioid that is really quite potent. It can be grown too, well, I suppose that's a given.
 

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In my country I see young people abusing fast acting benzos (Somnubene/Rohypnol) and alcohol at the subway station, laying there half-unconscious with blue-lips (from the coating of the drug). Would they abuse Seconal/Nembutal instead they would all be dead.
 

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UltraShy -- if you want to take opioids for your issues, have you considered kratom? It's a legal plant that contains an opioid that is really quite potent. It can be grown too, well, I suppose that's a given.
This is a grey area but opiates are easy to order online if you know what you are doing "flower arrangements" I wouldn't recommend it though.
 

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I don't know about "kratom", but if it's a full mu agonist then it's a dead end, isn't it? Things like Buprenorphine can really "treat" depression and anxiety in some resistant cases IMHO.
 

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In my country I see young people abusing fast acting benzos (Somnubene/Rohypnol) and alcohol at the subway station, laying there half-unconscious with blue-lips (from the coating of the drug). Would they abuse Seconal/Nembutal instead they would all be dead.
I call this natural selection.

Of course, you are right. Having all drugs legal only works if people educate themselves and don't act irresponsibly, which will never happen while 99% of people are absolute morons.
 

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Not long ago you overdosed on benzodiazepines and took 1000mg Wellbutrin. Another time you combined PEA + Selegiline + GBL resulting in seizures and ICU or hospital treatment if I remember correctly. Do you call this responsible and educated acting?
 

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Nope, but if I'd died, I would've accepted it as my own fault rather than the government's lack of intervention. Just like if I play with fire, I won't whine about it if I get burnt.

Also, those two things you mentioned were actually a single event (IIRC). I feel really bad about it, but it will never happen again. It only did because my judgement was impaired on G.

I was actually not at risk of dying, but my parents called an ambulance anyway. They didn't do anything at the hospital except give IV fluids and electrolytes.

I've put those days behind me now.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Another question.

Can someone please explain the difference between GBL and GHB?
Which one works better against anxiety?
When i searched Google i found 99,9% GBL, but they were cleaning products. Is that right? Do i have to convert this to GHB or can it be taken pure?
I also want to ask if it is possible to get Phenobarbital in Europe, so i can maybe ask my doctor for it?

Thanks
 
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