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A ****ing Leper
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
SA is like cancer. You may have terminal lung cancer and I may have a mild skin cancer but it's still cancer - Thunder

I've even been to a support group once where a person just up and decided they didn't have social anxiety disorder after all, how nice for them - Lostsoul

(http://www.socialanxietysupport.com...sorder-isn-t-a-good-enough-description-19562/)

are there no labels that could provide at least a touch of provocation, so as to elicit a possible moment of attention to our actual experiential condition, from others? ...

clinical terms seem no more effective than just stating a personality trait or symptom of the condition, which, however, isn't formal enough by itself to elicit sincere concern. adding "disorder" to the dominant trait is not exactly groundbreaking at this pitifully indifferent stage of societal acceptance for, specifically: any of the anxiety/depression/personality disorder spectra of mental illness. not very convincing:
SAD; GAD; social phobia; anxiety disorder; personality disorder; "SA", <lol>; "antisocial"; "narcissistic"; "avoidant"; "delusional" ...

these could help a bit, but not much:
agoraphobia; schizophrenia; clinical depression; "manic"; "bi-polar"; OCD; "dissociative"; "borderline", BPD ...

in spite of the degree of the affliction you're dealing with, nothing really cuts it when it comes to attempting a casual explanation, outside of a hospital or doctor's office. all too vague, theoretical, abstract and/or diluted by instinctively ignored and therefore unprofitable social stigmas (the built in paradox of a passive mental disorder). of course, passivity will typically be reciprocated by another instance of passivity, as that's the simplest counterbalance to an involuntary crutch ...

the extremes can't seem to begin to balance out the generalizations. we're screwed, and society is fine with that as the default. no need to make a fuss about nothing, unless you're the nothing.
 

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Well yeah it's hard to pinpoint exactly what some people have sometimes but I don't think it's actually doing any harm in diagnosing people or misdiagnosing them. Some people have different traits from different mental disorders, some people may have some symptoms but not all of them, or experience symptoms to a lesser degree. But I think the medical terms we have for defining and labeling mental illnesses is good enough for now. If it were really that vague and flawed I would think we would have much more trouble treating mental illnesses than we do now (and I realize we do have trouble treating a lot of them, but I'm just saying I don't think it's that bad where we need more specific definitions or some people's mental health would be seriously at risk).

I do agree that social anxiety is very vague though. There are different levels (severe, mild, etc.) but I can understand someone wanting more information than that I guess. Maybe in the future we'll have more specific terms branched off from the general term "social anxiety/social phobia" :stu
 

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That's like everything though, there's such a wide range that it's more useful to group it under one heading, then sub divide after that.

And that quote above pisses me off. The guy with terminal cancer will die, the guy with mild will most likely recover, that's a big fcking difference to me, and all this smart arse negativity people have is just self defeating.


*sorry, I woke up cranky this morning, but it still stands.
 

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A ****ing Leper
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That's like everything though, there's such a wide range that it's more useful to group it under one heading, then sub divide after that.

And that quote above pisses me off. The guy with terminal cancer will die, the guy with mild will most likely recover, that's a big fcking difference to me, and all this smart arse negativity people have is just self defeating.

*sorry, I woke up cranky this morning, but it still stands.
well, that's what i'm worried about. all the subdivisions or underlying supports for the beneficial usage of the SAD label, simply don't stick, in keeping with the SA. it seems like when you put the SAD at the forefront of the self learning curve and your recovery options, everything suddenly dissipates away from that inadequately formed distinction of SA being the prime pulpit for your insecurity issues. if you have serious underlying disorder/s, then the SAD just becomes an exaggerated rogue symptom of your overall instability, and left irrelevant to any cause for concern, completely relegated to an\ broad indifference status throughout humanity. when SA happens to be someone's main personal concern and reality to battle with, society takes it pretty nonchalantly at this point, and imo, completely looks the other way for the sake of self preservation, since anxiety is a simple contagion (and not one that people want anything to with if it's coming from an outside source).

i also don't quite understand why accepting that there is a wide range of degrees of SA, and that being able to be completely open about that in a technical sense, is so taboo. there aren't any approved technical reference points specifically designed for the SAD label, and there probably won't be for a long time. can we make it more technical to begin with, that we might hinder full diagnoses from reverting themselves backwards, by entirely extracting social anxiety out of the equation, when it still in essence and by clear observation, is an extreme issue for a given individual?

i see the double standard in the cancer quote...if this were a cancer board we wouldn't be comparing each others' cock sizes in severity of affliction, regardless of the supported evidence, and everybody would be welcome as a friend of a friend that dealt with cancer, large or small in scale. however, as flawed as the analogy may be, it provokes the most important issue SA is dealing in and of itself: "can i really be more than just general social anxiety at the end of the day?".

that is the complacency of which SA speaks of itself. therefore, is SAD of any value as a clinical term?
 

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As far as I can tell, you are talking about outside the doctors office?
In which case, who cares? I don't need to be understood by the mass public.
If I want to give more details to be family and friends, there's no label that will cover my story, so I tell it to them, and I don't need to tell it to anyone else.
(doctor aside).

My social anxiety is chemical imbalance , (mostly), the sudden onset and history shows this. My shrink agrees.
A lot of other peoples are brought on by a vast array of social mishaps or circumstances.

You could argue that this is a nature vs nurture situation, and label it accordingly , but who does it matter to except me and my shrink?

I see a car on the freeway, I don't care what model or make it is. I label it 'car'.
For all intents and purposes, this is a sufficient label. To the driver or cop behind, maybe it matters to identify it further for various reasons, but to most people, it's just another car.

I don't see how this is a problem. Unless you want attention from the public, which as SADers, we generally don't.

Or unless I'm completely missing the point. It happens.
 

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A ****ing Leper
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well yeah it's hard to pinpoint exactly what some people have sometimes but I don't think it's actually doing any harm in diagnosing people or misdiagnosing them. Some people have different traits from different mental disorders, some people may have some symptoms but not all of them, or experience symptoms to a lesser degree. But I think the medical terms we have for defining and labeling mental illnesses is good enough for now. If it were really that vague and flawed I would think we would have much more trouble treating mental illnesses than we do now (and I realize we do have trouble treating a lot of them, but I'm just saying I don't think it's that bad where we need more specific definitions or some people's mental health would be seriously at risk).

I do agree that social anxiety is very vague though. There are different levels (severe, mild, etc.) but I can understand someone wanting more information than that I guess. Maybe in the future we'll have more specific terms branched off from the general term "social anxiety/social phobia" :stu
i see what you're saying....i'm trying to squeeze water out of a rock that doesn't even exist...and i'll continue...

...this deep inexplicable feeling that really pesters me and seems to be of general awareness in some more relative forms that i can't seem to comprehend, is that SAD seems to be categorically more mythical by proportion than most other common mental conditions, revealed in the frozen redundancey of how so many are purported to be afflicted and so few have acknowledged it to the world. now is that just because it's qualitatively inherent in all of us on a perceivable level, and therefore too prevalent in essence to prove the existence of logical distinction across the severity spectrum? maybe something like depression could be seen on this level, but it doesn't seem as though we believe depression is something we all carry with us by raw instinct, at all times. i'm concerned social anxiety characterizes an individual's disposition no than than their neurosis? if SA can't be seen as a dark cloud in certain individual's persona, from the outreach of a societal view, how will those heavily afflicted one's get the fairest shot at leveling the playing field through appreciable compensation...

they'll always be a few steps further back, or worse, without a context that says anybody even has the slightest right to give a damn; because SA can be no more than it's primal self, especially not SAD, in the greater scheme of things.
 

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It's probably beneficial to the SAD community and it's professionals for the 'mystery', of SAD to be vague in the public's eyes.

Look at what happened when depression because more socially acceptable, it became the 'cool thing' to have depression, and we got thousands of moochers not only trying to be cool, but using it as a false excuse to go on health benefits / pension.

Or a flood of the 'I think I have SAD, cos I got anxious about a speech I had to give a few months back' idiots taking up doctors time.

I can just see a flood of wannabes pretending to have SAD for one reason or another, and then we become an acceptable joke on the late night talk shows, and for stand up comedians.
We lose any respect we did have in the first place, as no one will take us seriously ever again.
 

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A ****ing Leper
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As far as I can tell, you are talking about outside the doctors office?
In which case, who cares? I don't need to be understood by the mass public.
If I want to give more details to be family and friends, there's no label that will cover my story, so I tell it to them, and I don't need to tell it to anyone else.
(doctor aside).

My social anxiety is chemical imbalance , (mostly), the sudden onset and history shows this. My shrink agrees.
A lot of other peoples are brought on by a vast array of social mishaps or circumstances.

You could argue that this is a nature vs nurture situation, and label it accordingly , but who does it matter to except me and my shrink?

I see a car on the freeway, I don't care what model or make it is. I label it 'car'.
For all intents and purposes, this is a sufficient label. To the driver or cop behind, maybe it matters to identify it further for various reasons, but to most people, it's just another car.

I don't see how this is a problem. Unless you want attention from the public, which as SADers, we generally don't.

Or unless I'm completely missing the point. It happens.
that is what i'm getting at, some sort of attention from the public, which is too far out of context to make sense, in general terms. well, i definitely think i get your point (at the moment)....to go back to the defunct cancer analogy....someone i know has a smidge of benign skin cancer, and it's easily removed. did i ever feel as though they had a clinically recognizable form of "cancer"? no, i did not. it just wasn't anything to worry about in that way, where the label is so overbearing and allarming. but, is there any point in thinking it wasn't cancer? of course not, that would be illogical.

the reason i want more acceptance in the public forum - not directed right at me, but through an overarching label for the affliction that exudes value and appreciation of the specific limitations the sufferer may deal with- is because it may give me a better chance of cutting my losses, especially if there is a strong component of chemical imbalance going on with the interplay, meaning i couldn't just snap out of it in no time, through my own reason alone. in a sense, i do envision the public voice acknowledging SAD in a strict, isolated context, but now i realize that it's just too broad for that...and i'm waiting on defined sub-genres, that are more than just general personality traits, thrown out there, and rather, contrived to tie directly into the SAD label.
 

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A ****ing Leper
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
It's probably beneficial to the SAD community and it's professionals for the 'mystery', of SAD to be vague in the public's eyes.

Look at what happened when depression because more socially acceptable, it became the 'cool thing' to have depression, and we got thousands of moochers not only trying to be cool, but using it as a false excuse to go on health benefits / pension.

Or a flood of the 'I think I have SAD, cos I got anxious about a speech I had to give a few months back' idiots taking up doctors time.

I can just see a flood of wannabes pretending to have SAD for one reason or another, and then we become an acceptable joke on the late night talk shows, and for stand up comedians.
We lose any respect we did have in the first place, as no one will take us seriously ever again.
i guess you're right. anxiety drugs were all the rage for years, which proves how prevalent of a imagined conscious instinct there has been towards SA, as a "disorder"; if not only from the intent of subversive exploitation, from all sides; and not merely in spite of it's close overlay with the depression spectrum, very much imitating it's construct and outflow. now it's an indefinite lost cause...for there being a sincere acceptance of those who suffer with SA well beyond their control. until i personally relate to a context for SA, that aligns my personality with actuality, i don't see how i could begin to transform any effort, positively, and then externalize it, somehow, for self validation. that might mean that SA is a lesser issue for me, even though i couldn't figure out how to talk and interact with presence of mind, if my life depended upon it. my well being and capacity for learning is dependent on an ability to not have a debilitating level of SA, and yet, the SAD may just be a secondary issue for me. how does one manage anything within themselves, if nothing is accessible until the SA has been significantly deconstructed? i can't figure out where the SA begins, where it ends, what it's doing in between or what it's moonlighting for; so it becomes a lot more complicated than just trying to figure the logistics of how to interact with people, and/or taking drugs.
 

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Not entirely following.
Did it matter to that guy what you thought of his cancer, or what label you gave it? Doubtfully.

I don't really know what you mean by having a more detailed label can help you cut your losses.

It's nice to talk like an intellectual, but not if you aren't making much sense.
I read through your stuff, I understand the words, and the context, but when you put them into multiple sentences , something's going awry, you are losing the overall flow and meaning by superfluous application of often unsuitable verbiage.
Plus you have to keep in mind most of the people on this forum won't get halfway through your first post, so It becomes a bit self defeating.

That why I use analogies that everyone can relate to, it just makes things more accessible.
 

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Look at what happened when depression because more socially acceptable, it became the 'cool thing' to have depression, and we got thousands of moochers not only trying to be cool, but using it as a false excuse to go on health benefits / pension.
Wider recognition does have disadvantages. Depression comes in many varieties, ranging from "she's been feeling blue the last few days" to "she's literally blue having hanged herself."

Drug companies, looking to sell as many pills as possible, have obvious incentive to pump up the number of depressed patients by including anybody who's feeling even the slightest bit down. While we certainly want those who need help to get it, there is also the problem of how including even the mildest cases will have the effect of diluting the meaning & impact.

Or a flood of the 'I think I have SAD, cos I got anxious about a speech I had to give a few months back' idiots taking up doctors time.
Yeah, if that were the standard for SA then most people would suffer from it. Public speaking is the #1 fear in any poll of "normal" people I've ever seen. I suspect even Obama feels a tad nervous before giving his State of the Union with much of the world watching.

I can just see a flood of wannabes pretending to have SAD for one reason or another, and then we become an acceptable joke on the late night talk shows, and for stand up comedians.
We lose any respect we did have in the first place, as no one will take us seriously ever again.
My experience has been that those who don't have SA are totally baffled by the entire concept. Tell them how SA impacts you -- things that are posted daily on this board -- and it's so foreign to them they look at you like you're a man from Mars.

I suspect this reaction is due to the fact that they've most likely never met anyone else who said "I have SA." On cable there are multiple shows on hoarding -- getting every camera angle on 40 tons of trash (typically with dozens of dead cats under it) -- makes for a visually stunning show. Hoarding has very much been brought to public attention. Now try to find a show that sheds some light on SA. Uh, well, that's going to be a very hard task. There are no shows on SA since I assume it would be pretty damn hard to get anyone with SA to appear on camera for the entire nation when just going out to get the mail scares them as the neighbor might see. Even though SA is more common than hoarding, those with SA tend to remain hidden so now shows about SA & resultantly very little public recognition of the problem.
 

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A ****ing Leper
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Not entirely following.
Did it matter to that guy what you thought of his cancer, or what label you gave it? Doubtfully.

I don't really know what you mean by having a more detailed label can help you cut your losses.

It's nice to talk like an intellectual, but not if you aren't making much sense.
I read through your stuff, I understand the words, and the context, but when you put them into multiple sentences , something's going awry, you are losing the overall flow and meaning by superfluous application of often unsuitable verbiage.
Plus you have to keep in mind most of the people on this forum won't get halfway through your first post, so It becomes a bit self defeating
.

That why I use analogies that everyone can relate to, it just makes things more accessible.
yes, i am a self defeatist, most likely by reason of presupposed insanity. and, yes, i do try to talk like, and obviously unlike, an intellectual, especially in knowing that i don't sound like one, and would never want to be one, even if i found that i could; thus, i try to play a faux one on my self reflexive channels, alone; because, while i remain, situated in misery, i mind as well be something that i'm not, and beat it in on itself like beating a dead horse. then, when i decide to overcome my disconsolate state, and insignificant wretchedness; who i choose to be from the original stream of identity, will be that much fresher.

when i step out into the world just a bit, from this inauthentic stance, even through the anonymity of the the internet, it certainly creates a double standard of derisory notice....besmirching accessibility for all cause. if i could let my "true" shallowness step forward, it would naturally heal itself to some extent, through it's unprepossessing manner, and i could let go of this creationism, dealing purely in the randomness of a pseudo academia sourcing barrage....which is utterly transparent beyond any possible motive.

maybe i could stifle the anxiety just enough to allow myself a chance at demobilizing this obscure hyperbole i have entranced on the potential of my ability to gain a modicum of self assurance; that trapped the self in an unknown peculiarity for the sake of being lost, and the impenetrable, deluded safeness of that mind frame; and start stripping away some of the layers of chaos protecting the endless catacombs of distressing and unmountable fear.

i know it's little irritating, mostly just a waste...i'll get back to you with something more palatable if i can accomplish any sorting out of myself...

and back on topic...if it's worth it.
 

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There's no need to be sarcastic.
I was just saying there's more to communication than stringing words together.
 

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A ****ing Leper
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
There's no need to be sarcastic.
I was just saying there's more to communication than stringing words together.
i couldn't agree more! my SA, and whatever else may be involved (learning disability; unexplained physical atrophy; chemical imbalances), comes down to the barest framework of an intrinsic ability to communicate instinctively and socially, on any level...that's what i have to work on more than anything else: learning how to communicate starting at the very bottom of my pit of oblivion. i can speak and write fluently in this language (even if my spelling and grammar is sketchy), but i'm the most uneducated person i could imagine, because i don't use the tools effectively, or with any regard for their applicability. the way i come across, and the inconsistencies portrayed within that projection, may be more involuntary than you realize.

nah, i'm not really being sarcastic towards anyone but myself. i'm the one in the indestructible trance. the best i can do is mock myself for my inability to effect change.

i understand the hypocrisy of even showing up at all and half trolling, but at this point, all i can do string words together, and i have nothing better to do.
 

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I'm beginning to see why you think Social Anxiety Disorder is lacking in descriptive labeling ;)
 

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I can only say I hope this discussion continues. While my own SA-driven insecurities may keep me mute (for now), I've found inspiration in people such as you who are willing to deepen the conversation.
 

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A ****ing Leper
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I can only say I hope this discussion continues. While my own SA-driven insecurities may keep me mute (for now), I've found inspiration in people such as you who are willing to deepen the conversation.
thanks for the vote. i'd say you're one of my few advocates, in spite of how unacquainted we may be - still, mostly theoretical in guise, because there's so much contrivance shield put forth as antics and histrionics on here: i.e. me. wish i could have gotten this thread over the hump, somehow...just another weak effort...no strong ideal for others to build upon; no distinct personal vision to salvage. i'm all gassed out on stagnant fumes...maybe set my sights on hypothetical rebound 2015; from wreckage to wreckage, through epoch unto epoch, in eras of great distress... death unto death?...no question. i swear, i never much heard of the bible and it's teachings, but while reeking of such archaic scent, i did a google search and skimmed out the source of my ignorant plagiarism.
 
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