Sleeping problems.
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My insomnia is the biggest problem for me right now. I find it very difficult to fall asleep and when I do, I don't normally sleep longer than 5 hours. It's extremely frustrating and I haven't found a single medication which has worked for me. I like to tell myself that sleep is for the weak:b
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I can't sleep until I'm completely exhausted. So I exhaust myself with activities like working out at 2:00 a.m. Usually that means I'll drop over at about 5:00, which is the earliest I'm ever able to sleep. For a few years I worked overnights, which seemed to have a permanent effect on the brain chemistry that tells me when I should be awake or asleep.
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I also can't sleep until I'm exhausted. When I do get to sleep, I need a lot of sleep, like around 10 hours. I played basketball and lifted weights for 4 hours today, went to the gym twice, it is 1 in the morning and I still can't sleep. Don't feel tired at all.
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some tips to sleep like a log
- Get physically tired during the day (work out, run, any physical work)
- Eat a little more oil than usual, prefer ghee or second preference is butter
- Take a walk outside and observe nature (allows your mind to rest)
- Apply warm sesame oil to body and keep it for 30min/hour then take shower.
- Drink warm milk(not cold) before bedtime
- cut computer, tv activity about 2 hours before you sleep
- get a candle and put it your bedroom and light it about an hour before sleep and
stare at the candle sitting still, without blinking your eye lids. do it for 10mins or more
- Get physically tired during the day (work out, run, any physical work)
- Eat a little more oil than usual, prefer ghee or second preference is butter
- Take a walk outside and observe nature (allows your mind to rest)
- Apply warm sesame oil to body and keep it for 30min/hour then take shower.
- Drink warm milk(not cold) before bedtime
- cut computer, tv activity about 2 hours before you sleep
- get a candle and put it your bedroom and light it about an hour before sleep and
stare at the candle sitting still, without blinking your eye lids. do it for 10mins or more
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164 Posts
Yea same here I just sit there and dwell on crap. Lately I found A decent way to go to sleep though I just concentrate on breathing by slowing it down and I tend to pass out lol. I think?
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2,433 Posts
All of the above plus some Noca. If possible try to sleep without prescription meds. They actually interfere with good quality rem sleep so you have to sleep longer, most make you feel less motivated during the day, and you can end up having to rely on them for the rest of your life. That's along with the usual side effects that meds have especially if you use some of the ones that are designed more for depression like trazodone.
First make sure you are following proper sleep hygiene. http://www.umm.edu/sleep/sleep_hyg.htm
http://www.sleepeducation.com/Hygiene.aspx
http://discoveryhealth.queendom.com/sleep_hygiene_abridged_access.html
Second try to keep a steady schedule. Go to bed as close to the same time as possible and wake up as close to the same time as possible. Do not sleep in on weekends to make up for poor sleep all week or you will only get worse sleep the next week. Do not lay in bed for more 12+ hours even if you feel tired or you will cause hypersomnia and mess up your sleep schedule as well a making your mood worse the next day.
If you still have problems with your sleep schedule try to control your exposure to light. Get a daylight lamp to use at the computer or table during the day. Especially in the after you first wake up and especially if you can't go outside. Some people use daylight lamps on a timer or light based alarm clocks to wake them up. The light coming through windows is too weak to properly trigger many people's day/night cycle. More sunlight will also release more serotonin and increase your mood. A daylight lamp can be as cheap as $30 at walmart with a high wattage daylight spectrum cf bulb to as expensive as a $1000 light box depending what you have to spend and what you need. Then make sure to use as little light as possible within a few hours of bed time. Turn off the lights, block any sunlight- I actually went so far as to put black plastic on the window panes in my bedroom because I sometimes have to sleep during the day but there are black out curtains which come close to total darkness, and it's suggested to actually not watch tv before bed but read or something instead (with an incandescent light not your daylight lamp).
Exercise in the morning and afternoon can also help. It has many of the same benefits as increasing sunlight exposure and will help maintain your sleep schedule. It's also much easier to sleep when you've used up some physical energy. Sometimes we feel tired from stress and expending mental energy but not having used up any physical energy our body doesn't feel tired enough to sleep. Exercise can also help quiet your mind at night as well as making you physically tried. Slowly no impact exercise like stretching or yoga in the evening or before bed can also help but you don't want to get your heart rate up with heavy exercise right before bed. You want to do that at times you need to wake up.
At this point if the above isn't helpful I would go to otc supplements like melatonin. Do not take too much melatonin. It will interfere with deep sleep and make you feel tired during the day despite thinking you slept all night. It's extremely safe and not really possible to overdose melatonin but less is more when it comes to sleep quality. The only other useful supplement I've found is "Fatigued to Fantastic revitalizing sleep formula" http://www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=7170.
Finally when all else fails (and trust me I've tried it all) it's time to go to prescription meds. First if you have the insurance get a hold of a psychiatrist or sleep clinic directly and get yourself a sleep study. This will rule out common sleep problems like apnea which can ruin your sleep and your health and make sure your body is capable of going through all the stages of sleep. They will also probably do an mri before or after your sleep study. A doctor may do a blood test. All that rules out illnesses that could be causing both your anxiety and insomnia and is a good idea to do if you have the insurance to pay for it.
I'm going to just lump all meds not specifically for sleep into one general category of advice. Antidepressants and using other meds off label for sleep is not good to rely on. They do not promote good sleep and they have many more side effects than actual sleep aids. As well as making you less motivated the next day. I use seroquel for sleep and if I can get off it I will. It's caused me to gain alot of weight, makes me sleep for 10-12hrs, and ruins all my energy for the next day. Unless you have depression avoid these. It may require some arguing with a doctor because they think they should treat all unsolved sleep problems as side effects of anxiety or depression but if your goal is to treat insomnia not get meds for other mental health issues this is a bad idea.
One exception to the above is neurontin which I'm trying to switch back to in place of seroquel. Neurotin is often used for seizures as well as pain but it was at one time the main med used in sleep clinics. It is extremely mild and safe as far as prescription meds go and does promote good quality sleep. I know at least one person also found it useful for anxiety. It may be hard to get a doctor to prescribe it.
Now the actual sleep meds:
Ambien is better as a short term or as needed med. It is kind of like a benzo in how it feels. It will hit you fast, sometimes actually make you feel high and a bit hyper as well as relaxed, and then you will pass out. It will wear off fast as well and may not last all night unless you take a high enough dose it starts to mess with your stomach. Ambien cr is slightly better if your problem is waking early or frequently at night but does not give that burst that makes it easier to fall asleep in the first place. Plain ambien works better if your main problem is falling asleep not staying asleep. Ambien like benzos can be addictive and has a high chance of causing headaches. It also gives the least amount of deep quality sleep of all the prescription sleep meds I've used. I keep a little in reserve to use on nights I need something strong to fall asleep quickly and wake up early.
Lunesta/Zopiclone can be described as smoother than ambien. It won't hit you and knock you out. Instead you slowly feel increasingly tired. It's easy to stay up after taking lunesta and you may still have to try to fall asleep by going to bed at the right time and following proper sleep hygiene instead of being knocked out like ambien. It gives better quality sleep, no up and down unlike ambien, is less addictive, has fewer side effects, lasts all night for me, and does not make me drowsy the next day. Like I said though it is not as strong which is why I have to pair it with seroquel to fall asleep. Seroquel and lunesta can interact strongly. Be careful mixing them. I found myself passed out half on the bed, still in my clothes, with the lights on after taking lunesta the first time with my usual seroquel dose. Lunesta has not been tested or approved for long term use but I have been taking the same dose every night for 2years with no noticeable side effects, health problems, or increasing tolerance.
Sonata is similar to lunesta but beyond that I don't have much experience with it as I settled for lunesta instead.
Rozerem is the mildest of the prescription sleep aids. All it does it increase sensitivity to melatonin. The same can be achieved by just increasing how much melatonin you take at night. Personally I think it's rather pointless and it's slow to work. You have to take it every night for weeks to steadily build up a sensitivity to melatonin. It could help you maintain a proper sleep schedule but you could do that by taking melatonin every evening. I saw no real difference between those 2 methods.
Another long post from the severe insomniac who has been trying to solve insomnia for 10+ years....
First make sure you are following proper sleep hygiene. http://www.umm.edu/sleep/sleep_hyg.htm
http://www.sleepeducation.com/Hygiene.aspx
http://discoveryhealth.queendom.com/sleep_hygiene_abridged_access.html
Second try to keep a steady schedule. Go to bed as close to the same time as possible and wake up as close to the same time as possible. Do not sleep in on weekends to make up for poor sleep all week or you will only get worse sleep the next week. Do not lay in bed for more 12+ hours even if you feel tired or you will cause hypersomnia and mess up your sleep schedule as well a making your mood worse the next day.
If you still have problems with your sleep schedule try to control your exposure to light. Get a daylight lamp to use at the computer or table during the day. Especially in the after you first wake up and especially if you can't go outside. Some people use daylight lamps on a timer or light based alarm clocks to wake them up. The light coming through windows is too weak to properly trigger many people's day/night cycle. More sunlight will also release more serotonin and increase your mood. A daylight lamp can be as cheap as $30 at walmart with a high wattage daylight spectrum cf bulb to as expensive as a $1000 light box depending what you have to spend and what you need. Then make sure to use as little light as possible within a few hours of bed time. Turn off the lights, block any sunlight- I actually went so far as to put black plastic on the window panes in my bedroom because I sometimes have to sleep during the day but there are black out curtains which come close to total darkness, and it's suggested to actually not watch tv before bed but read or something instead (with an incandescent light not your daylight lamp).
Exercise in the morning and afternoon can also help. It has many of the same benefits as increasing sunlight exposure and will help maintain your sleep schedule. It's also much easier to sleep when you've used up some physical energy. Sometimes we feel tired from stress and expending mental energy but not having used up any physical energy our body doesn't feel tired enough to sleep. Exercise can also help quiet your mind at night as well as making you physically tried. Slowly no impact exercise like stretching or yoga in the evening or before bed can also help but you don't want to get your heart rate up with heavy exercise right before bed. You want to do that at times you need to wake up.
At this point if the above isn't helpful I would go to otc supplements like melatonin. Do not take too much melatonin. It will interfere with deep sleep and make you feel tired during the day despite thinking you slept all night. It's extremely safe and not really possible to overdose melatonin but less is more when it comes to sleep quality. The only other useful supplement I've found is "Fatigued to Fantastic revitalizing sleep formula" http://www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=7170.
Nothing else I've tried, like valerian by itself, has any impact on my insomnia.
Finally when all else fails (and trust me I've tried it all) it's time to go to prescription meds. First if you have the insurance get a hold of a psychiatrist or sleep clinic directly and get yourself a sleep study. This will rule out common sleep problems like apnea which can ruin your sleep and your health and make sure your body is capable of going through all the stages of sleep. They will also probably do an mri before or after your sleep study. A doctor may do a blood test. All that rules out illnesses that could be causing both your anxiety and insomnia and is a good idea to do if you have the insurance to pay for it.
I'm going to just lump all meds not specifically for sleep into one general category of advice. Antidepressants and using other meds off label for sleep is not good to rely on. They do not promote good sleep and they have many more side effects than actual sleep aids. As well as making you less motivated the next day. I use seroquel for sleep and if I can get off it I will. It's caused me to gain alot of weight, makes me sleep for 10-12hrs, and ruins all my energy for the next day. Unless you have depression avoid these. It may require some arguing with a doctor because they think they should treat all unsolved sleep problems as side effects of anxiety or depression but if your goal is to treat insomnia not get meds for other mental health issues this is a bad idea.
One exception to the above is neurontin which I'm trying to switch back to in place of seroquel. Neurotin is often used for seizures as well as pain but it was at one time the main med used in sleep clinics. It is extremely mild and safe as far as prescription meds go and does promote good quality sleep. I know at least one person also found it useful for anxiety. It may be hard to get a doctor to prescribe it.
Now the actual sleep meds:
Ambien is better as a short term or as needed med. It is kind of like a benzo in how it feels. It will hit you fast, sometimes actually make you feel high and a bit hyper as well as relaxed, and then you will pass out. It will wear off fast as well and may not last all night unless you take a high enough dose it starts to mess with your stomach. Ambien cr is slightly better if your problem is waking early or frequently at night but does not give that burst that makes it easier to fall asleep in the first place. Plain ambien works better if your main problem is falling asleep not staying asleep. Ambien like benzos can be addictive and has a high chance of causing headaches. It also gives the least amount of deep quality sleep of all the prescription sleep meds I've used. I keep a little in reserve to use on nights I need something strong to fall asleep quickly and wake up early.
Lunesta/Zopiclone can be described as smoother than ambien. It won't hit you and knock you out. Instead you slowly feel increasingly tired. It's easy to stay up after taking lunesta and you may still have to try to fall asleep by going to bed at the right time and following proper sleep hygiene instead of being knocked out like ambien. It gives better quality sleep, no up and down unlike ambien, is less addictive, has fewer side effects, lasts all night for me, and does not make me drowsy the next day. Like I said though it is not as strong which is why I have to pair it with seroquel to fall asleep. Seroquel and lunesta can interact strongly. Be careful mixing them. I found myself passed out half on the bed, still in my clothes, with the lights on after taking lunesta the first time with my usual seroquel dose. Lunesta has not been tested or approved for long term use but I have been taking the same dose every night for 2years with no noticeable side effects, health problems, or increasing tolerance.
Sonata is similar to lunesta but beyond that I don't have much experience with it as I settled for lunesta instead.
Rozerem is the mildest of the prescription sleep aids. All it does it increase sensitivity to melatonin. The same can be achieved by just increasing how much melatonin you take at night. Personally I think it's rather pointless and it's slow to work. You have to take it every night for weeks to steadily build up a sensitivity to melatonin. It could help you maintain a proper sleep schedule but you could do that by taking melatonin every evening. I saw no real difference between those 2 methods.
Another long post from the severe insomniac who has been trying to solve insomnia for 10+ years....
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i have sleep problems but for a different reason...i have a baby who has to eat every 3 hours :b
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78 Posts
Have you tried a memoryfoam bed? I bought one and it is so comfortable that I usually pass out as soon as I lay down on it. They are pretty cheap on overstock.com.
I have sleep problems due to anxiety or my meds but my doc and therapist say it´s anxiety. I´m starting to wonder.
When I take the meds and go to bed I often after a short while get an anxiety attack with the meds also affecting the breathing, my body weak and powerless cause of the meds. I´m sometimes anxious before sleep, fear the attacks you know. I live alone, it´s a pretty lonely feeling having those attacks at night and not a single person to talk to.
I have to plan it, I count the hours, if I go to sleep too early I will lay there for hours and get breathing difficulties. If I go to sleep too late I will almost certainly get an anxiety attack.
But now I am really getting worried here. This morning, 2 hours after I fell asleep I got an anxiety attack in my sleep! I didn´t know that could happen, I suddenly had a nightmare and woke up in a severe anxiety attack. I was in shock the whole day cause I thought I had some control over this but now I am getting woken up by severe anxiety attacks, just thinking about this makes me feel bad.
I´m on Seroquel, Trilafon, Litarex, Akineton and Rivotril. I´m getting really tired of those anxiety attacks, takes your energy away, I´m terrified I will not be able to beat this. It´s ripping me apart.
When I take the meds and go to bed I often after a short while get an anxiety attack with the meds also affecting the breathing, my body weak and powerless cause of the meds. I´m sometimes anxious before sleep, fear the attacks you know. I live alone, it´s a pretty lonely feeling having those attacks at night and not a single person to talk to.
I have to plan it, I count the hours, if I go to sleep too early I will lay there for hours and get breathing difficulties. If I go to sleep too late I will almost certainly get an anxiety attack.
But now I am really getting worried here. This morning, 2 hours after I fell asleep I got an anxiety attack in my sleep! I didn´t know that could happen, I suddenly had a nightmare and woke up in a severe anxiety attack. I was in shock the whole day cause I thought I had some control over this but now I am getting woken up by severe anxiety attacks, just thinking about this makes me feel bad.
I´m on Seroquel, Trilafon, Litarex, Akineton and Rivotril. I´m getting really tired of those anxiety attacks, takes your energy away, I´m terrified I will not be able to beat this. It´s ripping me apart.
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I haven't been sleeping well at all lately. Last night was the worst. I didn't get to sleep at all, not even for a few minutes. I snoozed this afternoon for a couple hours but I still feel like garbage. Hopefully my insomnia goes away once school starts and I'm back on a regular schedule.
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76 Posts
um yeah I lay in bed and refect on my day and how I was so stupid or whatever...I think on and on about past things...i wake up with every noise I hear... I become depressed about myslef wishing I could just normal and not have to think about everything...I even get hard panic attacks while I'm dreaming I wake up to feel the physical part of it then fall asleep and wake up sore from being tense.
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