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I was reading an article the other day and the author was saying that shy/SA people don't want to change rather they want to find others like them just so they can cry about it together and basically stay the way they are.

I thought the author was crazy (and that she did not understand what its like to have SA) but I then i started thinking about a situation on a different SA chat.

so basically that convinced me that the author, however crazy she may be, is right. because most shy people i've come in contact with are not that shy... they are highly sensitive people.. which is a different problem all together...

so my conclusion is that the author is correct when she says that shy people don't actually want to improve they just want to be whiners and cry about it. also she makes the point that shy people tend to replay their social history by finding someone to cast out or exclude, similar to the way they've felt their entire lives.

anyone else feel like its easier to complain about it rather than change? i know i do.......
 

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I don't think it's that SA people don't want to change, quite the opposite actually they do. I think it's just that they're frightened to. Either because of a fear of success or a fear of failure or maybe a fear of humiliating themselves. Staying as you are is quite a comfortable position to take even though it can feel unpleasent at times.
 

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I believe it is all of the above actually. Some do not want to change. Some say they want to change but their actions take them away from what they say they want, and many do want to change but find it extremely difficult to do so. In my case I have changed many things about my SA and most times I find life and most situations at least tolerable, but my SA always seems to be lurking just underneath the surface and pokes its head out on occasions to remind me that it is still there! I hope this makes sense.
 

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lol lars...very subtle :p

but i do think you have a good point. but maybe they are more cliquey than more social people is probably because they are afraid to take risks? i guess they just like being talking/hanging around with people that they are already comfortable. but that doesn't mean they don't want to change, they are just scared to, i think.
 

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I don't think it's that SA people don't want to change, quite the opposite actually they do. I think it's just that they're frightened to. Either because of a fear of success or a fear of failure or maybe a fear of humiliating themselves. Staying as you are is quite a comfortable position to take even though it can feel unpleasent at times.
I fully agree. I also think some don't believe that it is possible to change.
 

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Real SA people want to change, if not you have no SA but something else.

But its true that is you have SA, you come in an visual circle,
The SA makes you isolated, isolating makes you even more SA, finally you can get depression, depression stronger s your SA, and so on.

So its like, the thinks you do to protect yourself from fear etc, will make your final fear worse.
But exposed to fear, and the stress makes it also worse.
Its very difficult.


(sorry for bad English)
 

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I think it's possible to be both.
When I see people who seem to fit in easily, have lots of friends, a fulfilling life,
I want that too, and I really do think I have it in me to do the (emotional) work of putting myself out there, and I am filled with hope and I take steps towards it.

But sometimes, if I feel humiliated by someone or find myself in an extremely awkward situation, I curse people, and I "realize" I just want to be left alone where it's quiet and safe. In that case, I feel that I don't want to change at all, I just want to be left alone. (I feel that my SA over the years has started morphing into a schizoid-type personality, which makes it even worse, because it makes me want to try even less, because I could give a crap, you know?)

So for me, it's definitely both. Also, I've always felt the phrase "The devil you know is better than the devil you don't" extremely accurate for me.
 

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I think it's possible to be both.
When I see people who seem to fit in easily, have lots of friends, a fulfilling life,
I want that too, and I really do think I have it in me to do the (emotional) work of putting myself out there, and I am filled with hope and I take steps towards it.

But sometimes, if I feel humiliated by someone or find myself in an extremely awkward situation, I curse people, and I "realize" I just want to be left alone where it's quiet and safe. In that case, I feel that I don't want to change at all, I just want to be left alone. (I feel that my SA over the years has started morphing into a schizoid-type personality, which makes it even worse, because it makes me want to try even less, because I could give a crap, you know?)

So for me, it's definitely both. Also, I've always felt the phrase "The devil you know is better than the devil you don't" extremely accurate for me.
I thinks that what you say, seems to be true , but its actually fooling yourself.
Because.

You want to left alone, because you have SA, if you get rid of SA then you don't want to be left alone anymore.

Its just a side effect from the SA, its like self protection against the fear/stress you going true when meeting people.

And, "SA people don't want to change" is not the same as, "SA people want to be left alone".
 

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I would just move on and find a new skype group. Don't make generalizations over 1 or 2 bad experiences though my skype can be pretty exclusive too (only my cats are invited :p). You could say any type of people with mental illness don't want to change since they seem to have the problem for a long time and suffer a great deal. It's ridiculous to think this way.. when people have physical ailments you seldom hear, "he doesn't want to change."

And what is changing is it just being able to cope no matter how much anxiety and pain you might feel. Or if your social anxiety doesn't go down then you obviously have failed and don't want to change? The fact that people are "whining and complaining" shows that they are dealing with difficult things in life and are looking for support. That doesn't mean they don't want to change.
 

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And, "SA people don't want to change" is not the same as, "SA people want to be left alone".
I never said it was the same thing for "SA people". I merely said that I am feeling down about my SA, I give in to the thinking "I don't want to change" for whatever reason it happens to be (like you mentioned: fear or stress, or whatever). Whether that is "fooling myself" or not isn't really the issue. It's just how I feel at the time, and no feeling is wrong. It's merely a feeling, and I was merely expressing mine, not speaking for ALL the "SA people". (what is THAT, anyway?) ;)

Also, please don't take my response as being snarky. I am actually a very nice person, and often worry that when I explain myself or make a comment, it comes across to the reader as snarky, but I really am not.
 

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I never said it was the same thing for "SA people". I merely said that I am feeling down about my SA, I give in to the thinking "I don't want to change" for whatever reason it happens to be (like you mentioned: fear or stress, or whatever). Whether that is "fooling myself" or not isn't really the issue. It's just how I feel at the time, and no feeling is wrong. It's merely a feeling, and I was merely expressing mine, not speaking for ALL the "SA people". (what is THAT, anyway?) ;)

Also, please don't take my response as being snarky. I am actually a very nice person, and often worry that when I explain myself or make a comment, it comes across to the reader as snarky, but I really am not.
Hey,

I'' m not very good at English. I believe your nice person ;)

I didn't want to be mean, it was just me thinking out loud :)
 

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I think there are good things about being shy, which could account for the perception that we don't really want to change.

We don't annoy people, we don't make life hard for those around us, we are low maintenance, we are a much needed foil to all the loudmouths in the world.

I want to be myself, but also be able to ignore my fears if the situation requires it.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
well most approaches assume that the disorder is not natural. i think if clearly you make the assumption that you are born with it or its genetic then the answer to the problem becomes some sort of compromise.

for example one of the people i chat with on my current skype group assumes that she will never be able to change the problem completely. she basically assumes, incorrectly, that she will have to , as you put it, cope and just learn to deal with it, that presupposes that no change has been made other than the person has learned to lower the quality of their life in an effort to make things more tolerable.

what this phd. was saying is that shy people don't try to change. and from what i've observed this is true. for example some friends i have from years ago back in high school still hang out together and with no one else... these three girls still have their own clique are basically like high schoolers, have not grown at all and they are now 27.

anyways this doctor compiled all her research after 20 years of treating SA and made generalizations based on her experience. like i said , i thought she was crazy, but as i begin to think about what she wrote, i began to understand why she would make such claims.

anyways this PHD's conclusion was that most shy people would rather mirror what they have learned throughout their life.... AKA excluding others... rather than learning how to actually grow up and become more socialized.

so basically i relate that to my experience with SA people because they behave 180 degree's different than people i meet at work or in real life.

I would just move on and find a new skype group. Don't make generalizations over 1 or 2 bad experiences though my skype can be pretty exclusive too (only my cats are invited :p). You could say any type of people with mental illness don't want to change since they seem to have the problem for a long time and suffer a great deal. It's ridiculous to think this way.. when people have physical ailments you seldom hear, "he doesn't want to change."

And what is changing is it just being able to cope no matter how much anxiety and pain you might feel. Or if your social anxiety doesn't go down then you obviously have failed and don't want to change? The fact that people are "whining and complaining" shows that they are dealing with difficult things in life and are looking for support. That doesn't mean they don't want to change.
 

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I think you are personalising this and you can't really say "everyone with sa" you have to say something like "most people with sa" or "some people with sa" because sa varies and has different levels. Also just because you have sa it dosen't automatically mean you are a good person or have empathy, don't generalise all sa people on how you act or how some people act.

Myself I hate cliques and if I could push a magic button to get rid of my sa I would do it in a heartbeat. I find change difficult, not that I don't want to do it just that it feels like death when I try to go against my programming. But again that's just my experience with SA i'm sure someone out there might feel they don't want to change and just meet others to vent.
 

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From my experience on this site, I can say (unfortunately) that there is a substantial percentage of people who "don't want to change" using this disorder as an excuse, but a good portion of that percentage is out of frustration/angst, and self-hatred to an extent. The rest are Gung Ho on overcoming SA, even if there are setbacks.

One of the first things we have to do is realize (1) how we think determines how we feel, and (2) we are actually a bit more normal than perceived - it's just our thinking patterns that need to be retrained.
 

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please re-read what i wrote... i clearly stated that i'm talking about MY EXPERIENCE with SA people.. so obviously i'm personalizing it... lmfao...

I think you are personalising this and you can't really say "everyone with sa" you have to say something like "most people with sa" or "some people with sa" because sa varies and has different levels. Also just because you have sa it dosen't automatically mean you are a good person or have empathy, don't generalise all sa people on how you act or how some people act.

Myself I hate cliques and if I could push a magic button to get rid of my sa I would do it in a heartbeat. I find change difficult, not that I don't want to do it just that it feels like death when I try to go against my programming. But again that's just my experience with SA i'm sure someone out there might feel they don't want to change and just meet others to vent.
 

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You don't have to laugh hard about it. :lol
That's gotta be painful.
 

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I don't see why this author is focusing on just shy people because it's no different than any other clique of people. People seek out their own kind because they can relate with them. Jocks seek out other jocks, popular seek out popular, geeks seek out other geeks, etc.. They all share their experiences about life as a jock, geek, or a shy person in their own way to form a stronger bond.
 

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I don't see why this author is focusing on just shy people because it's no different than any other clique of people. People seek out their own kind because they can relate with them. Jocks seek out other jocks, popular seek out popular, geeks seek out other geeks, etc.. They all share their experiences in their own way to make a stronger bond.
I'm not sure about that. I've had "successful" and "popular" people want to hang about with me before, (they would choose me). I was never popular, barely average at best. I reckon they do it to boost their ego, to make themselves look like leaders or something, i dont know. I cut them off as friends.

Although now i am trying to seek people "on the same page", that i can just hang out with, and not feel pressurised etc. It's better if people like us do the choosing, or at least a mutual friendship. Its never turned out well with people that have chosen me to be their friend.
 
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