[Diya]

.

 

[sansd]

My experience, when I tried remeron for sleep, was that my vision was blurry the next day, my head felt like it had been stuffed with something, and I just felt generally not right. And I still couldn't sleep.

 

[stealyourface722]

yea mania is terrible, makes me wanna die. One time when i was taking trazodone with some other AD, i got manic/hypomanic, and i seriously had so many postive thoughts flowing so hard it was extremley uncomfortable and I really wanted to die. It was like fake, I was depressed yet so much postive thought just going and going and I couldnt sleep and was making me tense. it was interesting. there are so many faces of hypomania/mania though.

 

[Medline]

I saw some people on full-blown mania, I even talked with one woman for a long time - the hardest conversation I ever had, talking so f***ing fast, changing thoughts every seconds... WOW. These people always seemed happy though, never suicidal at that point.

 

[Medline]

If you live in the US your pharmacist won't carry Amisulpride (Solian).

 

[Lokzen]

I have tried a variety of psychotropic drugs. In the case of this type of medicine it seems possible that it is highly individual, and not with somatic medicine.

For me resulted Remeron that I dreamed strange (which few seem to have experienced). I went up in weight. Few things were better.

It may not be remembered, Remeron's tablet which melted in the mouth, tasted good. So, it is plus the Protocol

 

[Medline]

Good that you stopped!

 

[jim_morrison]

It sounds as if it's possibly exacerbating your OCD, possibly due to it's interactions with the serotonergic system.

I'm curious have you ever tried SSRI's and if so, which ones, and how did you react to them?

 

[euphoria]

You may have a lot more success combining an SSRI with mirtazapine than using it alone.

 

[jim_morrison]

Well if you've tried Prozac and it hasn't worked then I guess we can rule out a genetic variation of the Pgp transporter. (which may cause you to not respond to the other SSRI's but not prozac)

As for Mirtazapine, Honestly I think its effects on Noradrenaline are pretty mild, it's a far more potent serotonin antagonist. Mirtazapine is a potent 5HT2a receptor antagonsit, and in some cases high doses of drugs which cause 5HT2a receptor antagonism have shown to cause a worsening of obsessive–compulsive symptoms.

 

[euphoria]

As for Mirtazapine, Honestly I think its effects on Noradrenaline are pretty mild, it's a far more potent serotonin antagonist. Mirtazapine is a potent 5HT2a receptor antagonsit, and in some cases high doses of drugs which cause 5HT2a receptor antagonism have shown to cause a worsening of obsessive-compulsive symptoms.

Yeah, but it has 5-HT2C antagonism which reduces OCD symptoms. It's got anxiolytic action on 5-HT3 as well, and some other receptors.

Also, mirtazapine is likely to be a weak 5-HT2A agonist (in addition to being an antagonist), hence the psychedelia.

Re: noradrenaline, yeah this does seem to be the case (thankfully), so it should be possible to combine mirtazapine with MAOIs and of course SNRIs. Probably best to wait for studies on the MAOI combination though.

 

[jim_morrison]

Yeah, but it has 5-HT2C antagonism which reduces OCD symptoms. It's got anxiolytic action on 5-HT3 as well, and some other receptors.

Also, mirtazapine is likely to be a weak 5-HT2A agonist (in addition to being an antagonist), hence the psychedelia.

Yeah good point, and according to Stahl's Essential Pharmacology text book, I was reading that the 5-HT2C, 5-HT2A antagonism also leads to an increase in dopamine? Mirtazapine and Mianserin have some bizarre mechanisms of action.

 

[euphoria]

Yeah good point, and according to Stahl's Essential Pharmacology text book, I was reading that the 5-HT2C, 5-HT2A antagonism also leads to an increase in dopamine? Mirtazapine and Mianserin have some bizarre mechanisms of action.

Yeah I read that somewhere as well.

 

[db0255]

Sorry for reviving this thread, but I keep going back to Mirtazapine despite being the only drug that doubles my SA. Could shed some light on my neurotransmitter imbalance.

My recent findings:

I took 60mg a couple of weeks ago just because I'm still curious about it. If 30mg doubled my anxiety, then 60mg tripled it! I felt so horrible and extremely anxious. Any stimulus is enough to scare the hell out of me. Like, if my little sister threw something at me I'd feel those weird shock sensations going through my body, and my heart would beat so hard.

I also experienced insect phobia which I don't normally have. Do you think that Mirtazapine somehow depletes dopamine through an unknown mechanism? I mean, dopaminergic drugs provide a certain degree of anxiety-relief for me. Not to mention that Mirtazapine exacerbate restless leg syndrome which is linked to dopamine dysfunction.

By the way, I tried a couple of noradrenergic drugs and they didn't exacerbate my SA as much as mirtazapine did. So, my extreme reaction to mirtazapine is not only due to its noradrenergic action.

I'm going to take 15mg in a few minutes.

Remeron is a 5-HT2C antagonist. It inhibits this serotonin system, which when activated causes SA, anxiety, and depressive like symptoms. Inhibiting this system boosts NE and DA in the frontal lobe. That's what I gather from what I researched, what people have said about it, how it works, etc. Read the pharmacology section on Wikipedia. That'll give you what you need to know:

Mirtazapine is a potent antagonist at the following receptors: H1 (~0.75 nM) > 5-HT2A (~10 nM) = 5-HT2C (~10 nM) = 5-HT3 (~10 nM) > α2-adrenergic (~100 nM).

Basically you got an antihistaminergic, which will make you sleepy. 5-HT2C is supposedly where the clinical benefit is. 5-HT2A antagonism is the opposite of what SSRI do (they upregulate these receptors for clinical benefit). And then 5-HT3 and adrenergic which is where you get your dry mouth, etc. side effects.

 

[John_in_SF]

I find people extremely disgusting. This is one of the weirdest side effects of Remeron. People make me sick to my stomach, and the idea of having sex with someone is now extremely repulsive. This is enough to make me libido-less even if indirectly.

That's quite vivid, but I do relate. There's something about Remeron which redirects the mind into the self . . . that's why sleep and dreams become so interesting. The problem is that the mind is then directed toward . . . SUGAR in a frightful way.

 

[Anxiety75]

It gave me slurred speech, body zaps, and an appetite. Eating more was the only thing I liked about it. In larger doses it supposedly is less sedative and I think that happened to me but the body zaps were causing me to have anxiety or panic attacks.

 

[jim_morrison]

Remeron is a 5-HT2C antagonist. It inhibits this serotonin system, which when activated causes SA, anxiety, and depressive like symptoms. Inhibiting this system boosts NE and DA in the frontal lobe. That's what I gather from what I researched, what people have said about it, how it works, etc. Read the pharmacology section on Wikipedia. That'll give you what you need to know:

Mirtazapine is a potent antagonist at the following receptors: H1 (~0.75 nM) > 5-HT2A (~10 nM) = 5-HT2C (~10 nM) = 5-HT3 (~10 nM) > α2-adrenergic (~100 nM).

Basically you got an antihistaminergic, which will make you sleepy. 5-HT2C is supposedly where the clinical benefit is. 5-HT2A antagonism is the opposite of what SSRI do (they upregulate these receptors for clinical benefit). And then 5-HT3 and adrenergic which is where you get your dry mouth, etc. side effects.

It's pharmacological profile basically adds up to this;

α2-adrenergic antagonism ( + indirect α1 stimulation) = antidepressant effect (Serotonin and Norephedrine disinhibition)
5-HT2C antagonism = antidepressant effect (Dopamine and Norephedrine disinhibition)
5-HT2C + 5-HT2A antagonism = anxiolytic effect
5-HT3 antagonism = anti nausea effect
H1 antagonism = drowsiness and increased appetite effect

http://www.cnsforum.com/content/pictures/imagebank/hirespng/Drug_nassa.png

 

[db0255]

It's pharmacological profile basically adds up to this;

α2-adrenergic antagonism ( + indirect α1 stimulation) = antidepressant effect (Serotonin and Norephedrine disinhibition)
5-HT2C antagonism = antidepressant effect (Dopamine and Norephedrine disinhibition)
5-HT2C + 5-HT2A antagonism = anxiolytic effect
5-HT3 antagonism = anti nausea effect
H1 antagonism = drowsiness and increased appetite effect

http://www.cnsforum.com/content/pictures/imagebank/hirespng/Drug_nassa.png

That being said, the 5-HT2C antagonism effects of Remeron are VERY good at anxiolysis.

 

[jim_morrison]

That being said, the 5-HT2C antagonism effects of Remeron are VERY good at anxiolysis.

How much do you usually take? I just moved back up to 45 mg again. 30 mg was waning in effect a bit.

 

[tryingtobebraverJESS]

I started on 15mg, ended up in the pych hospital two weeks later for depression/suicide stuff, then got upped to 30mg

this helped a lot for depression and anxiety, I was just a LOT more relaxed
a lot of my anxiety was gone and a lot of negative suicidal thoughts

but after a couple of months it seemed to wear off a bit and I was getting really depressed again, after about 6 months it got upped to 45mg, and the reaction I got to that was *unbelievable* I was just totally full of energy, I couldn't sleep, I was going 2-3 nights with about 2 hours sleep a night. I just had so many racing thoughts, its like my mind wouldn't switch off, which didn't help with anxiety, which in turn I don't think helped my pychosis much

but now after 4 months it seems to be settling down again