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^ this is still far better than me :um
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
Haven't posted in this thread for ages. Let's try.

I've always had a weird fascination with the idea of what Frege called "propositional content". I feel like I've actually thought of a similar concept before I knew the philosophical term (not sure). :con

I'm not even sure why I like the idea.

There are mind-independent, objective propositional contents. These
contents are not ideas or mental images or conscious episodes of any
kind. They are not the products of mental processes or inner acts.
A propositional content does not belong to any one particular person,
it is not created by anyone, and it does not vary from one person to
another. Propositional contents are sharable, in the sense that many
people can think or entertain the very same content. They are repeatable, in the sense that one person can entertain the same content on many different occasions. But propositional contents do not depend on being thought or entertained for their existence. They were there before anyone ever thought about them, "just as a desolate island in the Arctic Ocean was there long before anyone had set eyes on it" (Frege 1979, 133).

Truth and falsity are, in the first instance, properties of these mind independent propositional contents. Their possession of these properties
is independent of our recognition of them as true or false. It is independent of our thinking of them at all. There are true propositions that no one has ever recognized as true, and there are true propositions that no one has ever entertained. We cannot make propositions true, or
change their truth-values, by entertaining or judging them. Judgment
does not generate entities with the properties of being true and false.
Propositional contents are already there, with their truth-values, waiting
to be entertained and judged.

There are other things that have the properties of truth and falsity, but
they have these properties in a way that is secondary or derivative from
the truth and falsity of propositions. Sentences, judgments, beliefs, and
assertions are true and false, but only because they express propositions,
or have propositions as their contents. The truth conditions and truth values of these other things are just the truth conditions and truth-values of the propositions they have as contents. A proposition is true or false in
itself. Sentences, judgments, beliefs, and assertions are true or false
because of the relations they bear to propositions.
This quote is from a book called "Propositional contents" that seems to be against the idea, haven't really understood the author's objection, but maybe I'm not as interested in the philosophical stuff, mostly the poetic idea of it?

Also the idea of the "third realm" very poetic, lol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Realm

you can ignore my signature for this post, lol.
 

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Public Universal Enemy
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^ this is still far better than me :um
Haha that's basically what I do (except to a more extreme degree.) I just skim read google books now and then (and other books,) and read online stuff. I mean not with philosophy, but in general.
 

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Haven't posted in this thread for ages. Let's try.

I've always had a weird fascination with the idea of what Frege called "propositional content". I feel like I've actually thought of a similar concept before I knew the philosophical term (not sure). :con

I'm not even sure why I like the idea.

This quote is from a book called "Propositional contents" that seems to be against the idea, haven't really understood the author's objection, but maybe I'm not as interested in the philosophical stuff, mostly the poetic idea of it?
Propositions were tied with boundaries as one of my favorite philosophical subjects last year and I need to explore them again. Something that intrigued me about Peirce's semiotics in particular was the idea that (say) the bright colors of an animal express a proposition as much as "sentences, judgments, beliefs, and assertions" do. Whether the animal in question is actually poisonous or merely a case of Batesian mimicry determines whether the proposition (or 'dicisign' in Peirce's terminology) is true or false, or at least accurate or misleading. And similar things can be said of diagrams, maps, pictures people share on social media, etc..

Also the idea of the "third realm" very poetic, lol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Realm
Same. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
Propositions were tied with boundaries as one of my favorite philosophical subjects last year and I need to explore them again. Something that intrigued me about Peirce's semiotics in particular was the idea that (say) the bright colors of an animal express a proposition as much as "sentences, judgments, beliefs, and assertions" do. Whether the animal in question is actually poisonous or merely a case of Batesian mimicry determines whether the proposition (or 'dicisign' in Peirce's terminology) is true or false, or at least accurate or misleading. And similar things can be said of diagrams, maps, pictures people share on social media, etc..
Interesting. I've never heard of this before, but looks like something I might want to look up.
 

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Some of the things I've read this past year or so have given me "reasons for living happily" -

 



Hence his charming, funny, or sublime "proems" on water, potatos, dung, snails, etc.

I like G.K. Chesterton's theistic outlook too but not sure if it'd be worth posting three longer excerpts if no one's interested in them.
 

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Hans Jonas, The Phenomenon of Life



 

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I think it's wonderful that this excerpt comes from a philosophy book published in 1974 and written by a priest.

I have trouble expressing myself without images, symbols, or gestures in general or without resorting to other people's words tbh.

Alfred Lord Tennyson had similar concerns about writing down one's experiences -
 
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