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The Power Of Nature
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Piracetam microdosing versus megadosing:
Piracetam micro doses - LONGECITY

Couple anecdotes and this references were posted too:
Effect of piracetam, a nootropic agent, on rat brain monoamines and prostaglandins.
Quote
Two doses of the drug were used, a lower dose (20 mg/kg ip) and a higher dose (100 mg/kg, ip), the latter being known to exert a facilitatory effect on learning and memory. Piracetam produced a dose-related effect on rat brain serotonin (5HT) and noradrenaline (NA), with the lower dose inducing a decrease in 5HT levels and an increase in NA concentrations. The higher dose of piracetam produced the opposite effect. Dopamine (DA) levels were not significantly affected. The lower dose of the drug attenuated 5HT turnover and augmented that of NA, whereas the higher dose of piracetam produced the reverse effects, in clorgyline treated rats.
[The nootropic and anxiolytic properties of different doses of piracetam].
[Article in Russian]
Voronina TA, Molodavkin GM, Borlikova GG, Ostrovskaia RU, Tushmalova NA, Naznamov GG
Laboratory of Psychopharmacology, Russian Academy of Medical Sciences, Moscow, Russia.

The effect of piracetam at various doses on the behavioral and electrophysiological characteristics was studied, including the development of passive and active avoidance conditional reflexes in rats, their behavior in conflict situations, and the transcallosal evoked response (TER) in rabbit brain. In the dose range from 50 to 300 mg/kg, piracetam improved the avoidance performance of both types and produced a dose-dependent increase in the TER amplitude, but did not affect the behavior of rats in conflict situations. As the drug dose was increased to 400-1000 mg/kg, the positive learning influence disappeared (sometimes the effect was even negative) and the TER increase changed to decrease. In contrast, the conflict situation tests revealed pronounced anxiolytic activity of piracetam at elevated doses. Thus, the nootropic and anxiolytic effects of piracetam (and, probably, of the other tranquilizers as well) do not coexist and are significantly shifted relative to one another on the dose scale, being probably realized via different mechanisms.
Psychopharmacology (Berl). 1983;81(2):100-6.
Piracetam in elderly psychiatric patients with mild diffuse cerebral impairment.
Chouinard G, Annable L, Ross-Chouinard A, Olivier M, Fontaine F.
Abstract
In a 12-week double-blind study, piracetam at two dose levels (2.4 and 4.8 g/day) was compared to placebo in the treatment of 60 elderly psychiatric patients with mild diffuse cerebral impairment, but no signs of focal brain lesion. The psychiatric illness, schizophrenia or affective disorder, of patients selected was in remission at the time of the study. Monthly evaluations by the nurse revealed that piracetam improved overall functioning, particularly alertness, socialization, and cooperation, relative to the control group. Patients treated with 2.4 g/day piracetam also showed significant improvement in scores for the full IQ and the memory quotient on the Wechsler Adult Intelligence and Memory Scales; greater response was seen in those with lower initial scores. Piracetam at 4.8 g/day had a more rapid onset of action on behavioral variables than 2.4 g/day, but its therapeutic effect tended to diminish at 12 weeks, possibly as the result of overstimulation. Piracetam did not appear to interfere with concomitant psychotropic maintenance medication or affect the psychiatric illness itself.
Higher doses seem better for ADHD:
"Therapeutic Efficacy of Nootropil Different Doses in Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder"
Summary
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is the most common cause of behavioral and learning problems in childhood. Therapeutic efficiency of nootropil (piracetam) in two different doses has been evaluated in the open control study of 80 children with ADHD, 70 boys and 10 girls, aged 6-11 years, being divided into 3 groups. Two groups received nootropil, as a monotherapy, for a month: 1st group (30 patients)--in the dosage of 70 mg/kg daily and 2nd group (30 patients)--40 mg/kg daily orally. The control group of 20 patients did not receive any treatment. All children were examined twice with one month interval. A procedure of assessment included of structured questionnaire to parents, neurological examination with scored evaluation of subtle signs and psychological testing. Nootropil therapy in ADHD children resulted in the improvement of behavioral characteristics, motor coordination as well as continuous, selective and divided attention. A response rate was 60% in patients received 70 mg/kg of nootropil and 43% for nootropil dosage of 40 mg/kg. The results of the study suggest more considerable positive therapeutic effects of nootropil higher dose on behavioral, motor and attention characteristics in children with ADHD.
The effect of a low dose of piracetam on the activity
of the dopaminergic system in the rat striatum
by
Budygin EA, Gainetdinov RR, Titov DA, Kovalev GI.
Eksp Klin Farmakol. 1996 Mar-Apr;59(2):6-8.

ABSTRACT

The low-dose effect (100 mg/kg, intraperitoneally) of the nootropic drug pyracetam on some DA-ergic neurochemical parameters of the rat striatum, as well as on the locomotion activity of rats were studied using the "open-field" test. It was shown that pyracetam (l mM) in vitro increases the K(+)-stimulated (28 mM) DA release from the perfused isolated striatum to 148 +/- 14 pmole/mg tissue compared to the control animals: 101 +/- 10 pmole /mg (p < 0.05, Student's t-test). Pyracetam in a dose of 100 mg/kg increased the DA level and decreased the 5-HT level in the striatum homogenates: DA- to 121% and 5-HT-to 81% (p < 0.05), respectively. The content of DOPAC, HVA and 5-HIAA in the tissue remained the same. In addition to the mentioned effects pyracetam promoted the locomotion activity of rats in the "open field" -putative behavioral marker of the striatum DA-ergic function. Thus pyracetam is capable of modifying the DA-ergic activity of the rat striatum, thus stimulating the neuromediator release.
Anyway im considering starting a microdosing regime today, i only have a bit of piracetam left so the dose will depend on how much i can take for a long enough period of time, perhaps 50mg twice a day.

Piracetam in particular seems to have dose-dependent actions. I get very different effects with microdoses (~80mg) versus more regular doses (400mg).

I tend to be extremely sensitive to medications, probably due to having chronic Lyme disease and Bartonella which might affect the blood-brain barrier and practically everything, so I have a policy of starting out with the smallest doses I can achieve when trying something new.

This means I put the smallest amount I could shake out of the capsule into about 4oz water, then "titrated" by taking sips of that water until I felt like I'd had enough (2-3 sips).

This "microdose" worked great for me--I had only positive effects, nothing huge, but good effects.
Will probably experiment in the same range.

Another anecdote:
I forgot to include that I took Alpha-GPC or Citicoline everytime. AND I just went and took a microdose 20min ago. I took a 800mg capsule and put it in a line (like cocaine addicts do) and took about a fifth of it (by licking it off of paper, not snorting). Either it was the bad taste that stimulated me, or it's actually working 0.o! I'm incredibly focused right now, and I didn't take a source of choline with it. Strange... It's probably just the placebo, but I feel really good and I just got off a 9 hour shift :D This theory is making me optimistic!

Edit: I was thinking and a micro-dose WITHOUT a choline source seems to do the trick. I haven't tried taking any choline yet, but I have a feeling that it probably wont do anything. And, I'm not irritable.
This was the first anecdote in that thread:
Piracetam has never done anything good for me, and if i take more than one tablet i start feeling some negative effects.
On a hunch I tried a VERY small dose, ~75mg. Almost immediately I felt the "brain waking up" sensation others report. I tried it again the next day, and i got the same result.
Feeling kinda "hotter" like my body temperature went up and my brain feels more awake but that could be placebo, thats all to report for now.
Everything seems more fluid, like the frequency of my brain is turned up a bit but not in a manic like way.

In both cases, my movements are more effortless and slightly sped up. I type and move more easily and quickly. My body is more attuned to gestures and movement.
I notice a simular thing as this anecdote.

It feels kinda simular to a nootropic dose of 2CB.

The difference with megadosing is exactly like the abstracts say, microdose is nootropic and enhances my fluidity and "frequency" while megadoses are anxiolytic and felt simular to amphetamine atleast combined with FO, i wonder how megadosing fo is with microdoses.

I took a total of 333mg acamprosate now and this doesnt have any negative effects on the benefits.

Took an extra of 75mg piracetam, will add in a microdose every 30 minutes and see wheter benefits increase and when they decrease to find a optimal dose.

75mg doses seem to work best, today took my second dose of 300mg, i'm gonna go down to 75mg 3 times a day and add in fish oil.

I left out acamprosate today, figured i wont need it if curcumin works for tolerance related issues, il see. Later on il try microdosing that and see wheter it adds benefits of its own.
 

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Nayslayer Extraordinaire
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Yeah, I was sorta wondering the same thing. Nonetheless, that is pretty sound in regards to piracetam (especially based on some of the human studies). Interesting...
 

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Crazymed does anything ever really work for you? I see you so frequently trying out supplements and so on.. why are you so much busy with trying everything that is out there?
 

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The Power Of Nature
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Crazymed does anything ever really work for you? I see you so frequently trying out supplements and so on.. why are you so much busy with trying everything that is out there?
Allways seeing how much i improve, wich was quite succesfull causing me to go into near completey remission.
 

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The Power Of Nature
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The microdoses stopped working after a while, im trying both nefiracetam and noopept now, both are great racetams with nefi being the most impressive.
 

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The microdoses stopped working after a while, im trying both nefiracetam and noopept now, both are great racetams with nefi being the most impressive.
That's good to know. I'm still occasionally doing the Mega dosing Piracetam/Fish oil method every now and then. I have to say, it does feel like it is helping to a degree.
 

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The Power Of Nature
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yeah it worked for me too, now prefer the more powerfull racetams, id like to try aniracetam, oxiracetam and pramiracetam to see how they compare. All can be ordered fairly cheaply from smartpowders.
 

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hey, I got this piracetam **** because I read it improved memory and I thought it would help with studying. I have only taken it a few times , like when I had a bunch of resits to do on the same day . I got all my resits done (passed!) And also felt pretty good and talkative.
 

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Yeah it worked for me too, now prefer the more powerfull racetams, id like to try aniracetam, oxiracetam and pramiracetam to see how they compare. All can be ordered fairly cheaply from smartpowders.
I bought aniracetam and pramiracetam over the summer when I found piracetam.

 

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The Power Of Nature
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
How do they differ for you? Pramiracetam experiences are pretty rare so are those of nefiracetam. Nefiracetam is pretty much like a supercharged version of aniracetam both are also also highly synergetic from what ive read, nefi acts on the cholinergic and nearly all receptors of the glutaminergic system wich is hugely cognitive enhancing.
 

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The Power Of Nature
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It also shows renal toxiticy, it appears that toxiticy can occur from as little as above 100mg, its not recommend to take more.

This is mostly the reason im cycline it and wanted to compare it with noopept and pramiracetam.

A shame as nefi looks perfect looking at its pharmacological profile.
 

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How do they differ for you? Pramiracetam experiences are pretty rare so are those of nefiracetam. Nefiracetam is pretty much like a supercharged version of aniracetam both are also also highly synergetic from what ive read, nefi acts on the cholinergic and nearly all receptors of the glutaminergic system wich is hugely cognitive enhancing.
Definitely Pramiracetam is it! What could I say about Pramiracetam?

Pramiracetam makes the slivers of sunshine like liquid light. They shine deeper into the well of my mind, and there illuminate as fire would burn. Plus the dreams! Oh, the dreams, in their horrors and screams! Every nite is full of the most amazingly clear terrors and heavens that cannot be reached by the hand of normal man

The clarity of the days has swept away my daze, turned tiredness into relentless energy, changed depression into constant optimism!

The single most powerful molecule made by the hand of man is indeed Pramiracetam.
It is the giver of eternal life and a wizard's power hour after hour!
The key to restoring and maintaining a brain worth more than its weight in grain.
 

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The Power Of Nature
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Sounds excellent, i wonder wheter it would show energy with nefiracetam.
 

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Sounds excellent, i wonder wheter it would show energy with nefiracetam.
:teeth I'm only joking.

I'm sure ani and pram can be very useful to some people. You may be able to find some benefit from it so I wont discourage you from trying it.

Personally, I can't really tell very much of a difference between those two nootropics. I suppose I'm not very sensitive when It comes to these because I don't get much of an effect from either. I guess I just have a thick head. I only have about 300 mg left of aniracetam but I still have a little less than half the bottle of pram left so I will try taking some again tomorrow and update the thread. Although, Pram has got to be the most bitter tasting substance on the face of the planet. The taste is probably the strongest effect it would have on you, lol. You will definitely remember the taste for a long time.
 

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The Power Of Nature
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
lmao
 

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this is exciting... got 25g of aniracetam and 100g of piracetam. I'll cry if customs seizes.

any of you folks stack it with herbs? i have a bottle of bacopa, ginko, passion flower, cat's claw, holy basil, and rhodiola by my side... and might order some ashwagandha in a month or so. Trying to optimize a budget stack to reverse asocial petty understimulating life-style cognitive decline and anti-anxiety. More priority on the cognitive part since i'd be expecting too much if i wanted anti-anxiety strong enough for SA....imo

augment/revive/restore... baseline cognition --> self help CBT books --> step the **** outside
 

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I have Bacopa, Gingko Biloba, Ashwagandha. For cognitive health, I read Lion's Mane mushroom can be helpful. As for nootropics, I am interested in trying Oxiracetam and either staking it with Piracetam or replacing it. It's water soluble like Piracetam and supposedly 5 x more potent. It also doesn't have that bitter taste other racetams have.
 
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