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Equilibrian Epicurius
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Discussion Starter #1
I've been wondering for quite awhile now how an unselective MAOI combined with 2-Phenylethylamine would be like. So I ordered some PEA and eagerly awaited my self-experiment. I can't find any detailed reports online of phenelzine/tranylcypromine/isocarboxazid +PEA experiences, so I hope this writeup can assist others who are interested in this combination.
*Warning: This combination can be extremely dangerous. Even low doses can induce a hyperadrenergic crisis potentially resulting in stroke or heart attack.* Increase your dose slowly, people!

My phenelzine dose:
1st week: 30mg
2nd week: 45mg
16 days: 60mg

Anyway, on to the experience report:

I started off by taking my blood pressure before beginning. At 8:41PM, it is 125/67, with a pulse of 77 beats per minute.
8:43PM: Dosed 10mg
9:02PM: [BP=124/71; 73bpm] No effects.
9:22PM: [BP=120/61; 73bpm] ...
9:40PM: [123/66; 69bpm] Still no effects, re-dosing time.
9:44: Dosed 20mg
10:04: [130/74; 70bpm] Nothing yet? :con
10:23: [123/62; 71bpm] ...
10:39: [117/61; 72bpm] Screw this, it's time to really give this stuff a try...
10:45: Dosed 50mg
11:02: Why aren't I feeling anything? Let's see if my cardiovascular system is.
11:04: [162/101; 62bpm] Oh sh*t, it sure is. (no anxiogenesis)
11:07: [182/109; 76bpm] Uh-oh! Looks like I shouldn't have leaped from 20mg directly to 50mg.
11:10: [205/109; 67bpm] "So this is what it's like to experience a hypertensive crisis." I have no symptoms besides a slightly stronger heartbeat and a couple palpitations. No psychological stimulation or anxiety - "PEA sucks!"
11:13: [205/118, 63bpm] The hypertension headache starts. I tell my brother to call 911.
11: 20: Paramedics arrive and measure my blood pressure which is 203/112 (slight drop from before). They decide to stay and see if the reading goes up again.
11:29: [181/105] Thank god, I thought I was about to have a stroke there. Headache isn't going away though.
11:39: They test my blood pressure again and it's dropped significantly, but still is a little high (forgot what the reading was exactly, I think 140-something over 88-90.) They lecture me for a bit then leave.
11:45: [136/85; 85bpm] Nice, almost back to normal. The headache reduces to a pulsing feeling in the back left of my head. The crash begins.
11:58: [124/72: 67bpm] Hypertension completely ceases. Headache persists for one more hour.
1:00AM: The worst of the crash has ended.

So the norepinephrine flood didn't result in any psychoactive effects, I wonder why that is. I may try this combo again but only with clonidine added beforehand and using only 10mg titration intervals. I recommend starting at 10mg, then go up by 10mg no sooner than one hour later if you're taking any nonselective MAOI. Just a difference of 10mg can induce noticeable changes in blood pressure, so don't make the same mistake I did!
 

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Equilibrian Epicurius
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Discussion Starter #2
That's extremely odd. No dopaminergic effects whatsoever as far as you could tell?
No euphoria, mood lift, motivation... :stu

1) maybe you overestimated the hypertensive crisis?
The severity of it? When blood pressure elevates beyond 200/100, there is definitely a reason to be concerned.

2) maybe you didn't actually get PEA?
100% sure it's pure β-phenylethylamine. Here's a pic, though mine are the 250mg capsules.

Also are you taking anything else besides phenelzine?
Nothing at all besides clonazepam 1mg average once per week, which obviously wouldn't alter PEA's effects.

I'm confused too, but I honestly think the CNS noradrenergic/dopaminergic effects are inhibited when MAO-A is shut down.
 

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I'd say it's because of the MAO-A inhibition potentiating released noradrenaline, unlike with selegiline where only dopamine is potentiated. The result is a primarily adrenergic drug, where you'd need large doses of carvedilol/clonidine to reach dopaminergic effects without having a hypertensive crisis. With selegiline + PEA, theoretically the primary effect would be of dopamine.

The obvious answer to the PEA problem is to take reboxetine/atomoxetine + selegiline + PEA, along with tyrosine etc. for the crash, magnesium for tolerance and benzos for whenever necessary.
 

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Equilibrian Epicurius
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Discussion Starter #4
IllusionalFate: Another idea, perhaps they mailed you the levo- isomer :p
I've never seen the levo- isomer of PEA, what is its chemical structure?
These two are the only non-methyl phenylethylamines (and not phenylethylamine derivatives) I've heard of:

β-phenylethylamine



α-phenylethylamine



Edit: I forgot to post my current phenelzine dose; 60mg for 2 weeks and 3 days, 4 weeks and 3 days total.
 

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I think unselective MAOIs + PEA is just too dangerous to experiment with. At least the danger:fun ratio is probably not optimal. ;)
 

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Equilibrian Epicurius
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Discussion Starter #7
Standard beta-phenethylamine (as well as amphetamine, methamphetamine, MDMA, etc.) is a 50-50 mixture of levo- and dextro- stereoisomers. These isomers have an identical chemical structure save that they're basically mirror images of each other. Regarding the phenethylamines/amphetamines, levo- isomers are typically selective for releasing norepinephrine (by 10-fold or so), whereas dextro- isomers tend to release norepinephrine and dopamine at a more balanced ratio. Here's an example showing the equilibrium dissociation constants of methamphetamine for releasing norepinephrine (NE), dopamine (DA), and serotonin (SE) (note that less is more):

  • (levo-)Methamphetamine: NE = 28.5; DA = 416; SE = 4640.
  • (dextro-)Methamphetamine: NE = 12.3 = DA: 24.5 = SE: 736).
Amphetamine in the Adderall brand is 3/4ths dextro- and 1/4th levo- forms, Dexedrine brand is 100% dextro- form, street methamphetamine is almost always pure dextro- form, and you can get pure levo- methamphetamine over-the-counter in the form of Vicks Inhalers.

Do you get the joke now? :p
I'm aware that amphetamine formulations have levo- and/or dextro- isomers, but didn't know this was the case for 2-PEA as well. Is it really sold blindly as either l-/d-2-PEA and you never know what you're gonna get, or were you just poking fun at the levo-isomer's uselessness for inducing dopaminergic transmission?
 

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I've taken PEA on both Parnate(which was a lot more intense) as well as nardil(not so much). I definitely understand the heart palpitations and strong heart beat. PEA sounds as if it would be fun... and it sorta was the first time i felt that tingle in the back of my neck and felt like i was on speed the first time while on parnate... but the come down sucks and the palpitations are scary. I would do amphetamine any day over PEA. It seems to actually be a lot safer than PEA. I tried a higher dose as well on both and amphetamines of all kinds work much better.(not suggesting in anyway for people to try) could be dangerous! I've also taken MDPV. I actually really liked it. Its cheap too.
 
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