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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
One of the most common complaints I've heard over the years and hundreds of users I've PMed is that people are afraid of being active here due to being shut down for, literally, no reason.

That is they're literally afraid of irrational debate. They're afraid of people not explaining themselves, but simply blaming the victim. They're also afraid of pragmatism being taken as an excuse in blaming others as ridiculously absurd.

On a social anxiety forum, this seems especially important because literally, these people are complaining about being judged as weird. Anxiety itself is over fitting in, so when people are afraid of falling out on a forum where people discuss fitting in itself, that's a major problem.

Instead, the forum seems dominated by noisy opportunists who simply take any marginal chance available to express themselves just so they can be heard, become popular, and be relieved. There is no organic or holistic culture here, and the only reason the community sustains is because of increasing real life demand from the self-fulfilling prophecy of social anxiety not being dealt with. That is the longer social anxiety isn't dealt with, the more it spreads.

I am not convinced this forum genuinely cares about dealing with its problem, and it's very disappointing that this problem persists because noisy opportunists insist on pressuring everyone else in the name of "diversity". They do not recognize the necessity of a universal set of values which everyone can unite around in common around so people can get along. Instead, people are allowed to fall through the cracks everyday just so people can be active.
 

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The issue is kind of intrinsic seeing as the majority of the people on this forum suffer from social anxiety. The problem is not that certain members are too vocal, it is the necessary social exposure that is necessary on any kind of forum. This kind of fear of interaction is absolutely irrational, so there is no real way to approach it.

Any solution involves alienating a certain proportion of members from the forum. If you think 'noisy opportunists' are less in need of support, then so be it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The issue is kind of intrinsic seeing as the majority of the people on this forum suffer from social anxiety. The problem is not that certain members are too vocal, it is the necessary social exposure that is necessary on any kind of forum.
No. What's necessary is people explain themselves so they make sense. If people simply put themselves out there, it leads to confusion, and that perpetuates social anxiety because you're forcing people to endure trauma from learning from experience.

This kind of fear of interaction is absolutely irrational, so there is no real way to approach it.
What's irrational is forcing people to assume the risk of learning the rules of engagement from trial and error. People are entitled to civilized interaction rather than simply living in anarchy.

Any solution involves alienating a certain proportion of members from the forum.
Eh what?

You just admitted that some people are obligated to endure anxiety so others' anxiety is relieved. That's discrimination.

What I'm saying is everyone is entitled to a stable environment so nobody has to endure anxiety. Nobody should be discriminated against.

If you think 'noisy opportunists' are less in need of support, then so be it.
If noisy opportunists can't be respectful of others, then no, they shouldn't be supported.

I don't think the proper solution is that however. The forum should be segregated between noisy and less noisy areas. As it is, noisy opportunists are bullies and disable more reserved anxious people.
 

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Hmmm...agree with Daktoria.

I've read threads from people who don't seem to have anxiety at all, as if they're just doing it for attention :con
 
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I thought one of the founding rules of this site was to not decide whose anxiety is the worst, who actually has anxiety...etc.

What you deem to be "noisy opportunists" needs more clarification.

It also sounds to me like you are judging people unfairly. Someone who might be vocal on this board might not have hardly any voice in their normal daily lives. This might be one of the few places they have names they know and can converse and yes, even debate controversial topics.

Why don't you just name names of who you are talking about instead of making vague accusations at those who post a lot, post in S & C, or whatever it is you are alluding to.
 

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As far as I'm concerned S&C is the place for "noisy opportunists" on SAS. Its specifically designed for controversial discussion which is actually very therapeutic for many members. Those who feel overwhelmed or intimidated (which is fair) only need to click the arrow and make it disappear.

I kindof agree with OP though, on the coping section there are often controversial and sometimes confrontational topics. Specifically about women. Someone makes a thread upset about being alone and suddenly its a pile on of "women only want confidence... they're so materialistic and shallow..." In my opinion those threads should be moved to S&C, where those opinions belong. Its harsh and alienating to see them on the support boards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I thought one of the founding rules of this site was to not decide whose anxiety is the worst, who actually has anxiety...etc.
Exactly. Noisy opportunists are pushing themselves on everyone else such that others' anxiety is treated as inferior.

What you deem to be "noisy opportunists" needs more clarification.
Well...

...noise is when people express sound without signals. It's when they make brutal assertions without explaining why their ideas are necessary.

Opportunism is when people exploit any instant available.

A noisy opportunist is basically someone who just says things to be heard rather than explaining why what someone's saying is important.

It also sounds to me like you are judging people unfairly. Someone who might be vocal on this board might not have hardly any voice in their normal daily lives. This might be one of the few places they have names they know and can converse and yes, even debate controversial topics.
I'm not saying everyone who's vocal is necessarily noisy, and this isn't just about Society and Culture. This is about people complaining about their personal problems and being told to just suck it up by others trying to make a name for themselves.

Why don't you just name names of who you are talking about instead of making vague accusations at those who post a lot, post in S & C, or whatever it is you are alluding to.
I'm not accusing people here. This is a complaint I'm familiar with when PMing people about why they're not more active on the board. They say they don't want to be made fun of and they're afraid of others disparaging them carelessly.
 

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You're not judge and jury on who has what problems or who should be allowed to post what. Often those "noisy opportunists" as you put it are even the most insecure and lonely. (not trying to get into the who has it worst game here)

This is a forum with so many different kinds of people from different backgrounds and upbringings, the spectrum for anxiety and depression issues is so vast you'll always have people with differing thoughts. It is part and parcel of posting your problems on a forum.. not everyone is going to pat you on the back and necessarily agree with you - thats an inherent part of ANY forum, whether it be based around mental illness, pokemon or ponies.

At the end of the day if its getting out of hand, its up to the mods to revise the guidelines for posting or start letting people know where the limits are. (not that many people will listen, but hey)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You're not judge and jury on who has what problems or who should be allowed to post what. Often those "noisy opportunists" as you put it are even the most insecure and lonely. (not trying to get into the who has it worst game here)
Well I agree with that. It would help lonely noisy opportunists to understand the rules of engagement so they don't make fools of themselves so much.

It's very annoying trying to have a civil discussion when naive immature people simply blurt out whatever first comes to mind.

This is a forum with so many different kinds of people from different backgrounds and upbringings, the spectrum for anxiety and depression issues is so vast you'll always have people with differing thoughts.
This seems irrelevant. Noisy opportunism can come from any background regardless of age, sex, race, class, or whathaveyou.

It is part and parcel of posting your problems on a forum.. not everyone is going to pat you on the back and necessarily agree with you - thats an inherent part of ANY forum, whether it be based around mental illness, pokemon or ponies.
I don't think that's the problem. What people are afraid of is disagreement without justification. It's OK to disagree. The point is people should explain why there's a problem.

That said, people should explain why they believe things in the first place. It's not a second person's responsibility to accommodate a first. Publicly explaining the rules of engagement would help people avoid making fools of themselves because they would understand how to be careful.

A lot of people also complain about the instantiation of noisy opportunists. That is they find many threads on the forum originally obnoxious and don't bother participating because they're not convinced they're among mature company that's willing to comprehensively help with problems.

At the end of the day if its getting out of hand, its up to the mods to revise the guidelines for posting or start letting people know where the limits are. (not that many people will listen, but hey)
This is the problem.

The guidelines need to be revised at the beginning of the day, not at the end of the day, because otherwise, people get traumatized in learning from experience.
 

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I don't think that's the problem. What people are afraid of is disagreement without justification. It's OK to disagree. The point is people should explain why there's a problem.

That said, people should explain why they believe things in the first place. It's not a second person's responsibility to accommodate a first. Publicly explaining the rules of engagement would help people avoid making fools of themselves because they would understand how to be careful.
People don't need to explain anything, if they want to make a vague post they can. It may be annoying and sometimes frustrating but they don't owe you any explanation beyond what they feel comfortable with. There is so much angst on the forums (due to the nature of them) that "rules of engagement" sort of go out the window.

Also, what are these rules of engagement supposed to be? as long as you're within the rules of the forum then thats enough is it not? I'm not seeing why people should explain more to appease you, if you see them as fools.. then so be it, its their prerogative to do/post as they please.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
People don't need to explain anything, if they want to make a vague post they can. It may be annoying and sometimes frustrating but they don't owe you any explanation beyond what they feel comfortable with. There is so much angst on the forums (due to the nature of them) that "rules of engagement" sort of go out the window.

Also, what are these rules of engagement supposed to be? as long as you're within the rules of the forum then thats enough is it not? I'm not seeing why people should explain more to appease you, if you see them as fools.. then so be it, its their prerogative to do/post as they please.
No.

If someone makes a post without explanation, that's duress because passersby are forced to assume the risk of what's said being unreliable.

People assemble (here) to communicate with the understanding that communication is going to be civil. One's freedom of speech is not superior to another's freedom of assembly. Bait and switch "buyer beware" isn't fair to those who believe a domain is what it stands for.
 

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I don't care if people want to post vague things or unsubstantiated opinions, or even immature things. I do mind when we end up with a hostile environment in the support segment.

Threads like "why does society hate men so much" or the current "3 things women find irresistible in a man". By definition belong in S&C or possibly relationships. They're about society and culture and they always devolve into generalizations and usually finger pointing. I don't think anyone should be censored, it would just be nice to allow the support areas to remain supportive. I'm guilty of posting in those threads as well (and not always supportively) so I take responsibility for that. Just a suggestion to the mods.
 

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No.

If people make a post without explanation, that's duress because passersby are forced to assume the risk of what's said being unreliable.
Thats taking things too far. People have the right to say whatever they please, whether you believe the evidence supports it or whether there is even evidence at all. Its not duress, there is no 'assumption of risk'. Like so many things in this world if you disagree ignore that post, or respond with your view or evidence. Neither side gets to censor the other.
 

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Now this is an interesting analysis... I can agree with parts of it, especially regarding the posters who write seemingly without consideration of whether they're adding something to the discussion, such as expressing their opinion or thoughts. Sometimes it's like people post just for the sake of increasing their post-count, and to be fair, I've done that myself a couple of times, not really having anything relevant to say. My apologies.

I won't point to any individuals in particular, partly because I don't want to personally accuse anyone, and partly because I'm not that familiar with the characters and their post-history on this site.

Judging from the samples I've read on a similar forum, anxiety space, the tone is more modest and reserved there. But then again, there are forums much worse than this one as well. However, I think Daktoria has a point, mainly this;
What's necessary is people explain themselves so they make sense. If people simply put themselves out there, it leads to confusion, and that perpetuates social anxiety because you're forcing people to endure trauma from learning from experience. /QUOTE]
Just let me add that this has never happened to me personally, and the response I've gotten has actually been very kind. Nevertheless, it's not uncommon to see threads derailed by annoying (trolls?) and disrespectful attitudes...
 

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i am a noisy opportunist *squawks*.

still, i would welcome efforts to create more cohesion or projects where SAS members work together to do things. i know a number of other people would like SAS to be more than what it currently is. commitment and resources are generally in short supply so getting new stuff off the ground is difficult.

i don't know what is more deterring to new members, the initial posting restrictions, or the hostility on the forum. the hostility problem is harder to fix but ideally those members which do not support others will be reported and they will have to start being nice or be banned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thats taking things too far. People have the right to say whatever they please, whether you believe the evidence supports it or whether there is even evidence at all.
It's not even really about evidence.

When people post personal issues, they want to know why what they're doing is wrong. Noisy opportunists make brutal assertions about people's personal behavior being wrong without explaining why some behavior or other is necessary.

Its not duress, there is no 'assumption of risk'.
It is duress because people don't know why people are claiming what they're claiming. The risk comes from someone's claim not necessarily being complete and consistent.

Like so many things in this world if you disagree ignore that post, or respond with your view or evidence. Neither side gets to censor the other.
The problem is you don't know if you disagree in advance of reading it. That's the assumption, and especially among socially anxious people who are rattled and need a release, that assumption can be especially damaging.

Noisy opportunists who make brutal assertions without explaining why end up censoring others by intimidating them into believing they're not entitled to reliable information when uniting in common.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
i am a noisy opportunist *squawks*.

still, i would welcome efforts to create more cohesion or projects where SAS members work together to do things. i know a number of other people would like SAS to be more than what it currently is. commitment and resources are generally in short supply so getting new stuff off the ground is difficult.

i don't know what is more deterring to new members, the initial posting restrictions, or the hostility on the forum. the hostility problem is harder to fix but ideally those members which do not support others will be reported and they will have to start being nice or be banned.
Well I don't really want to ban people. A lot of people are noisy opportunists because they're frustrated and need a release. It's ironically the same problem as those who are afraid of noisy opportunism - they're also frustrated and need a release, but don't know how to release without getting stepped on.

People need to understand where others are coming from so they can synchronize instead of frustrating each other. I'm trying to be specific in my description of noisy opportunism by using words like "necessary" and "reliable" so everyone can come to a common ground of understanding.
 

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Noisy Opportunists - This sounds like a great name for a SAS band. Unfortunately I can't play any instruments, but I can still make a noise.

It is duress because people don't know why people are claiming what they're claiming. The risk comes from someone's claim not necessarily being complete and consistent.

...

Noisy opportunists who make brutal assertions without explaining why end up censoring others by intimidating them into believing they're not entitled to reliable information when uniting in common.
I think generally it's only the S&C (aka gun) section that has the hostility. The other sections seem perfectly ok to me, so I don't see what the problem is. S&C does what it says on the tin.

Whilst people here do have social anxiety, it doesn't mean that they need to be treated like children. I think having a degree of debate and confrontation can be a good thing in an environment where people do not feel as exposed.
 

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Who are all these people you are supposedly speaking for? Sorry, but I could easily say the same thing.....well, scores of members of this site whom I will not name but speak for feel this way about that. You are just going to have to speak for yourself, and if these others want to they can as well. This is a forum and people are going to not always agree with you and you are not going to always like their posts.

I had a thread that went out of control right off the bat yesterday and just had it deleted. Nothing personal against anyone who posted in it..... Just didnt want to make a mockery of the subject... so I get what you are saying about that aspect but you also don't get to control what other people say unless it's a direct personal attack on you. If it's NOT my thread, I just ignore it.

And please stop saying "noisy opportunists".
 

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Whilst people here do have social anxiety, it doesn't mean that they need to be treated like children. I think having a degree of debate and confrontation can be a good thing in an environment where people do not feel as exposed.
Thats pretty much exactly how I feel. I like S&C because it pushes my limits, in my real life I am hyper-aware of judgement from strangers and friends. S&C lets me practice saying controversial things, defending them and accepting the inevitable judgement that comes from other people for what it is.... completely irrelevant.

It does seem like a shame though when the political stuff surfaces in the support forums. That really should be a safe space. Luckily we don't need to censor anyone... we can just move it to a more appropriate place.
 
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