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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I thought I'd share my experience with Nardil as it may tempt others into trying it.

I suffered from debilitating social anxiety and depression for years, I've had social anxiety for the majority of my life, but it wasn't until my late teens that it really became severe. I couldn't be around people without getting very shaky, sweaty, on edge and having continuous thoughts that were centered on how others perceived me. Talking to strangers would get me into a very panicky state of mind and body, keeping eye contact was painful. I was always wondering if i was staring at the right place, or if i was looking too long, or even if my anxiety could be seen in my face. Thus i was not able to do much in this world; no job, no friends and no relatives. I was completely isolated with my pathetic self which could do nothing but obsess about my failures. And even doing simple things like grocery shopping made me feel very bad, which i sometimes avoided since just looking at the cashier made me uncomfortable. No human should live like this and of course there were often suicidal thoughts that came and went, and I also went down the route of abusing many illicit drugs.

I had for a long time a very negative view on medications and psychologists/psychiatrists which made me try to handle my problems by myself. But since it was nowhere near working I mustered up the courage of seeking help. I was as many others started on SSRIs/SNRIs/Betablockers then TCAs. But none of these medications gave me any positive effects at all. Even CBT was useless and i became more and more desperate. I researched various supplements, vitamins, and popped various pills one after another. No relief, no hope, only despair.

One day i came into contact with irreversible MAOIs (Nardil/Parnate) due to this thing called the internet. And i spent probably hundreds of hours reading about them on various web-pages and literature. I decided for myself that even if it's the last thing i do in my life, I'm not going to stop until I've gotten my hands on one of them. Since these medications are long forgotten relics of the past the path to getting it wasn't easy, but one day i managed to convince a pdoc to start me on it.

Nardil (Phenelzine) took about 8 weeks before i noticed any positive effects, but god what a difference it made! It completely turned my life and now when I think back at all the things I've gone through due to anxiety I can only laugh about it. Now I'm extremely social, and the thing I love the most in life is actually talking to other people. It's such joy just to be at great peace while looking at people's faces when words are coming out of my mouth. Flirting with women is now a passion. I've also become a great listener, whereas before i was too busy watching my own behavior and could thus never remember a single word the other person said. I've lost most inhibitions to the point that I'm able to say and do anything out in public.

I'm sure there's loads of other people out there in a similar situation that I've been. Never stop trying to get better; where there's a will, there's a way.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
But pretty much everything in life always comes with its negative aspects as well, and MAOIs are no exception.

The first few weeks i had quite a resume of side effects; Dizziness, blurry vision, sedation, minor weight gain, diarrhea, constipation, urinary retention, tremors, bloating, gas, dry mouth, increased appetite, hypotension, orthostatic hypotension, paresthesia, sweating and sexual dysfunction. Perhaps a few more, but i can't remember them.

Most of them have gone away, but those that remain are constipation, bloating, minor tremors and increased appetite. Also low blood pressure if i take too high a dose.

But I'd go through any side effects to be able to feel and be that person I am today. Life feels wonderful!

Constipation: can be combated by eating lots of fiber or by taking laxatives. A personal favorite is Dulcolax (Bisacodyl), although it should only be used once a week so one does not get permanent bowel problems. Movicol (polyethylene glycol) can be taken daily, but is far from as powerful.

Gas: Farting in the wrong direction while on Nardil can killing livings organisms, it's probably the worst smell I've ever felt, but one does get used to it. Perhaps one might be able to get a job at Anticimex; just go into random house, fart, everything dead! Gas can also be lessened by taking OTC pills such as dimethicone or simethicone.

Urinary retention: This does lessen a lot with time, but in the beginning it can be very troublesome. Peeing while squatting helped me a lot. Taking a diuretic also does wonders, such as Lasix (Furosemide) plus Bethanechol.

Sedation: was also extremely difficult the first two months, I'd fall asleep and take a afternoon nap very often, or when i sat on a chair I'd dose off. But this has totally disappeared. Coffeine can help a little bit, or by taking some kind of psychostimultant or Modafinil. Low doses of Wellbutrin has also shown to be effective. This completely disappeared with time.

Low blood-pressure: This was one of the worst offenders at the early stages. My blood pressure even got so low that i fainted a couple of times and hit my head on various stuff. But this also does get a lot better, there's also blood pressure increasing medications that can be taken such as Midodrine.

Sexual dysfunction: This became apparent after one week of Nardil use, and now it takes forever to ejaculate, but it is possible. My libido has however gotten a lot higher, and the ladies love it. I actually love this side effect as it makes me last so long. But it can be combated with the use of Wellbutrin (Bupropion) or Periactin (Cyproheptadine) or various stimulants.

Weight gain: This is another prominent problem with Nardil, it makes you eat more, and everything sweet tastes like a piece of heaven. Actually most food tastes a lot better. Simply lowering calorie intake and doing regular exercise do help a lot, or lowering one's daily dose of Nardil.

The diet: Taking a MAOI makes one very sensitive to tyramine, which can be found in some types of food. It is very individual how someone reacts to tyramine while using Nardil; some people can eat anything they want without raising an eyebrow. Other people can get a stroke from eating aged cheese or spoiled meat. I believe almost every death the past 40 years (haven't been that many) have happened exclusively from eating a large amount of aged cheese. Personally the only things i avoid is aged cheese and old food of all types.

Dr Ken Gillman has the best diet list I've ever seen; http://psychotropical.com/pdfs/maois_diet_full.pdf

That's all i can think of for now. If you feel you've had enough of suffering due to depression and anxiety, then I'd recommend trying Parnate (Tranylcypromine) or Nardil (Phenelzine), it might very well be the best decision you've ever made in your life! :clap:clap:clap:clap:clap
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yet another satisfied nardil customer!

I could have wrote that myself. As you know, nardil changed my life in the same way it did for you. I also ended up moving across the other side of the world to a country I had never been to before. Nardil gives you super powers I tell you!

You didn't get any insomnia? wow, you must be the only one.

What dose are you on again?
Oh I've been on everything between 60mg - 210mg. Normally i try to keep it at 75mg.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Would you know if it could actually happen?
Also, are you taking anything with it?
It's my first Nardil trial, and it can take a very long time until it kicks in, so stick with it. Also i would recommend to increase dosage until you get orthostatic hypotension, as it's an indicator you've reached a good dosage. Orthostatic hypotension will be shown within 2-3 days. So no need to wait too long at a particular dosage.

I don't really believe that restarting Nardil makes a difference, if it worked once, then it will work again.

It should work without any add-ons, drop everything you're certain isn't useful for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I just started on 45mg and still have 2 long weeks till I plan on going up to 60mg. and as for the supplements, err.. I can't think of any I want to drop, although, I end up taking 9 pills in the morning, 8 in the afternoon, and 4 at night. holy shyt. I can make it 8/7/3 if I switch to pharmaceutical fish oil, and 8/6/3 when I get my Noopept. I haven't even added augmentations!

Can taking all this stuff be bad for my liver or something?
None of the things you take seem to be dangerous for the liver except Piracetam.

Nardil alone can in some people rarely be toxic for the liver, so it's important that you do blood tests every three months to see if your liver values have changed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I tried fish oil for a month, and there was no difference at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well if you went tapered down to 15mg within 2 weeks, like I did, you probably just felt good because your monoamine oxidase enzymes were still inhibited from your dose 2 weeks ago, cause they were irreversibly inhibited and it takes about 2 weeks to get new ones.
The thing with Nardil is that it's also a release agent of the three major NTs shortly after dosage, not to mention it also increase GABA for 24 hours after dosage. So the MAO inhibition is far from the only important aspect.

I do sometimes try supplements, and if i don't see any improvement or change within a month, then i drop it. There's really no need to keep using something that isn't working despite the fact that it may have helped someone else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Hey ChopSuey? How do you manage your maintenance dose? Do you mix it up to help reduce tolerance? If you do, please tell me how, I also wanna generally be around 75-90mg
I have only noticed minor tolerance issues. But i try to generally be on a low dose 0-30mg for 2-3 days every now and then. Not very often.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Anyways, Nardil doesn't give you dry mouth?
The first weeks i had small issues with dry mouth, i was constantly worrying about it, that it would get worse and I'd eventually have meth mouth. But it disappeared. And now I do try to take care of my mouth in the best possible way, cause I'm probably gonna be needing them a long time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I thought I'd compile a list of various Nardil studies. (Can never get enough of those huh?)

Nardil vs SAD

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08039480310002110

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12607230?dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20194829

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12950437

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12888407

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9862558

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12607230

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15538306

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10604081

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22665997

Nardil vs Parnate; severe antidepressant-refractory depression

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/phenelzine-compared.htm

Nardil is neuroprotective

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/phenelzine-protect.htm

http://www.acnp.org/g4/GN401000046/Default.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23410524

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22503968

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22039878

MAOI + Tobacco smoking = Wonderful synergy

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/nicotine-mao.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22549121

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17912044
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Out of curiousity, what brand of Nardil are you taking ChopSuey? I've seen differences in opinion on the efficacy of Pfizer/Greenstone vs. Gavis, with the slight majority seeming to prefer Gavis

I myself have just started on the Greenstone generic (which supposedly has the same active & inactive ingredients as the Pfizer version, and people say Gavis is closer to the original "holy grail" pre-2003 formula change Nardil), so just wanted to know if I should maybe request a generic switch to Gavis if that's the one you take, after reading your glowing review lol.
I take Archimedes Nardil (UK). I've however heard some rumors that Gavis Nardil is supposed to be good. But I'm not sure i believe the 2003 Nardil craze; that it became much worse after the re-formulation. All versions should have more or less the same efficacy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I was never able to comfortably go past 45mg, to be honest, so don't feel obliged to push yourself to 60mg or 75mg just bcuz.
It's very individual how one's body handles these chemicals, i can be on 150mg without getting too much side effects, others stop abruptly because they can't handle the negative effects at 45mg.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
To those who have taken it, did you get medical bracelets? Do pharmacies have them typically?

Oh and how were cognitive functions and attention/focus?
Bracelet; nope.
Pharmacies; Usually no.
Cognitive; short-term memory might be a little worse, barely noticeable.
Attention/focus; no difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Chop, you said earlier you started to see benefits around week 8. How long did it take before it took its full effect?
It's extremely hard to say, It is dose dependent. The higher dose i take the better i feel. But around the 3 month mark i was feeling pretty great on a stable 75mg dose.
 
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