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Equilibrian Epicurius
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So one of the hoops I have to jump through to get any kind of efficacious medication is Levetiracetam, an anticonvulsant nootropic used to treat epilepsy. My pdoc claims it's a mood stabilizer with anxiolytic properties, but I have read nothing so far about it being used as either. For the last three days I've been on 250mgx2 daily, and needless to say it doesn't ameliorate my anxiety in any way.

I need a pro-social drug, but my pdoc insists that I'm experiencing anxiety which is the reason I'm so quiet in social situations. Bullsh*t! Any anxiety I may have is eliminated with clonazepam, and this drug doesn't even come close as an anxiolytic.

So does this actually help anyone with social phobia? I can't see how it could do anything besides produce somnolence in non-epileptic patients.
 

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I really think doctors should trust someone's instinct because I think everyone knows themself better than anyone else. (as far as anxiety goes) Doctors, maaaaaaan go back to retail. Sorry but I tried telliong my doctor I have anxiety and she is trying to send me to a Cognitive Psychiatrist cause she thinks my problem is crying LOL. Which it completely is not. Goodluck though. You probably don't neee a mood stablilizer, probably like an upper? something that stimulates your mind and makes you ahve a good well being. Doctors man, what goes rthroguh their minds?
 

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Well, that's certainly an exotic drug choice. I think perhaps I might have heard of that drug maybe once before, but I'm not even sure on that. Your doc has come up with a drug that is never discussed on SAS and I've been here over six years.

My pdoc claims it's a mood stabilizer with anxiolytic properties...
Are you bipolar such that you'd even care that it might be used as a mood stabilizer?

Did the doc say anything about how long it should take for these alleged anxyolitic properties to manifest themselves?
 

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Doctors man, what goes rthroguh their minds?
Probably, "how can I avoid getting sued to the limits of my malpractice insurance policy?" Thus, prescribe totally safe (even if useless) meds.

Just the other week we had a thread about benzos and it was linked to an article that mentioned some lady who was suing her psychiatrist for getting her "addicted" to Klonopin. Doctors are faced with sue-happy patients and their lawyers lusting for money attacking from one side while the DEA is looking over their shoulder to second guess every script they dare to write for a controlled drug. And then they have cheerleaders sent by every drug company around visiting them on an almost daily basis to promote the new wonder drug of the day. Gee, I can't imagine why doctors act the stupid way they do.

They merely have to dodge lawsuits, the DEA, and being brainwashed by big pharma.
 

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Equilibrian Epicurius
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well, that's certainly an exotic drug choice. I think perhaps I might have heard of that drug maybe once before, but I'm not even sure on that. Your doc has come up with a drug that is never discussed on SAS and I've been here over six years.
This is the only thread I've been able to find on it, although I definitely don't feel the "benzo-ish" effects the OP reports:
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/examining-keppra-30829/

Are you bipolar such that you'd even care that it might be used as a mood stabilizer?
Nope, my pdoc even criticized the last psychiatrist I saw for prescribing me Lamictal and said I "definitely am not bipolar" (which I knew was never the case). Prescribing mood stabilizers for social anxiety however comes as no surprise to me, considering the main priority of most physicians seems to be avoiding controlled substance prescriptions rather than actually treating the patient's disorder.

Did the doc say anything about how long it should take for these alleged anxyolitic properties to manifest themselves?
He did not, although I have a hunch it should take effect immediately after noticing the 6 hour half-life and twice daily dosing regimen, and the fact that I've experienced no difference at all since I began taking it. My dose increases to 500mgx2 daily though in a few days so I'll report back if I notice any changes.

You probably don't neee a mood stablilizer, probably like an upper? something that stimulates your mind and makes you ahve a good well being.
I agree, 10mg dextromethamphetamine augmented with 1-2ml GHB does sound like a very efficacious treatment for my particular brand of SA.
 

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This is the only thread I've been able to find on it, although I definitely don't feel the "benzo-ish" effects the OP reports:
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/examining-keppra-30829/
That's probably the one place I vaguely recalled seeing that drug name. And you can see how it only produced one reply, so I'm guessing you're virtually the only person around here to be using it.

my pdoc even criticized the last psychiatrist I saw for prescribing me Lamictal and said I "definitely am not bipolar"
My GP, Dr. Jackass as I call him, threw a sample pack of Lamictal at me a couple years ago when I saw him for a totally unrelated reason. He seems to have some love affair with mood stabilizers, even though he doesn't think I'm bipolar. In fact, if you read the definition of mania, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who is any further from that description than myself. There is no question that I'm not bipolar.

Prescribing mood stabilizers for social anxiety however comes as no surprise to me, considering the main priority of most physicians seems to be avoiding controlled substance prescriptions rather than actually treating the patient's disorder.
I love how much we think alike. After reading this forum for years it's become very clear that many doctors would throw an entire pharmacy at a patient before very reluctantly giving them a script for a controlled substance. Many act as if prescribing an anti-anxiety drug (benzos) for anxiety is some wild & crazy idea. Yeah, that's almost as crazy as giving antibiotics for a bacterial infection!

10mg dextromethamphetamine augmented with 1-2ml GHB does sound like a very efficacious treatment for my particular brand of SA.
Dex = very hard, but perhaps
GHB = you've got a snowball's chance in hell

Remember to thank the DEA for "protecting" you from effective treatment.
 

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Equilibrian Epicurius
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Dex = very hard, but perhaps
GHB = you've got a snowball's chance in hell

Remember to thank the DEA for "protecting" you from effective treatment.
It's funny how GHB is so strictly controlled, even though it's very close in chemical structure to the neurotransmitter GABA (Gamma aminobutyric acid compared to Gamma hydroxybutyric acid), and GABA is sold OTC. Not to mention it's neuroprotective and I've even read about it being cardioprotective. That's the DEA for you, even Harvard studies write it off as a date-rape drug while barely acknowledging it's medical value.
 

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It's funny how GHB is so strictly controlled
As I recall, it's the only drug the DEA has on two different schedules at the same time -- being C-III when sold as Xyrem & being C-I when bought from your local drug dealer just like heroin. This makes no sense at all. So the DEA is telling us that GHB can somehow have a legitimate medical use & moderate potential for abuse/addiction as C-III Xyrem, yet at the same time it can be a C-I that is defined as have very high abuse potential and no legitimate medical use. Only the DEA could fail to see how self-contradictory that is. Oh, I forgot -- DEA rules don't have to make any sense at all.

even though it's very close in chemical structure to the neurotransmitter GABA (Gamma aminobutyric acid compared to Gamma hydroxybutyric acid), and GABA is sold OTC.
But GABA doesn't cross the blood/brain barrier so it had no mind-altering effect (no help for anxiety), thus the DEA coudln't care less about it. The DEA only cares about things that could get you high or things like Sudafed that could be made into something that gets you high.

even Harvard studies write it off as a date-rape drug while barely acknowledging it's medical value.
They fail to note that alcohol is by far the #1 date rape drug around. If some college girl downs 15 shots of vodka I don't think any GHB will be needed to overpower & rape her when she's already blacked out on the floor just short of death by alcohol poisoning.
 

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Thats got to be one of the oddest off label usages of a med I have ever heard, especially since you said your doctor doesn't believe you are bi-polar.

If there's a top 10 list of psychiatric drugs in the world that doctors should be afraid of prescribing for fear of being sued, Keppra would be right near the top. It has a reputation for more than rarely sending individuals into the most intense, blackest, suicidal depression imaginable (aka my mind unmedicated). This likely will not happen to you but just be aware and dont go offing yourself if you fall into a black hole. It is important to BE INTELLECTUALLY AWARE of this side effect so you can recognize it in case you get it and not just act mindlessly on a potentially negative emotion. It's amazing for me to see people who are put into a drug induced depression suddenly realize how "out of control" of themselves depression can make one feel. There's also the "Keppra rage" (fits of anger like you couldn't imagine). It also has withdrawal effects that can (potentially) make effexor's look like a trip to the candy shop. I have heard women equivocate it to giving birth (intense, whole-body, down to the bone, pain; literally screaming).

Also, don't go thinking that all mood stabilizers have no value as anxiolytics. Many find them to be extremely helpful for anxiety, just not typically keppra. Every mood stabilizer I have tried amazed the hell out of me at how well they worked for reducing anxiety (depakote, lamictal, neurontin).

If clonazepam helps you why are you not using it? Or did you use it off prescription?

Here are a bunch of posts on keppra.

http://www.crazymeds.us/CrazyTalk/i..._in=posts&result_type=topics&highlite=+keppra

Ultrashy, you might want to do some research on 'agitated-depression' (a bi-polar mixed state). I say this only because I can relate to a lot of the symptoms of it when off of meds. Off of meds I am hyper religious, hyper creative, extremely irritable, VERY easily frustrated/enraged, and somewhat grandiose all the while being EX-TRE-MELY depressed, panicky, OCD, ADD. This actually is a form of bi-polar disorder. It probably relates to why I was so amazed at how much mood stabilizers can help. You really should give some of them a shot.
 

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Equilibrian Epicurius
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
They fail to note that alcohol is by far the #1 date rape drug around. If some college girl downs 15 shots of vodka I don't think any GHB will be needed to overpower & rape her when she's already blacked out on the floor just short of death by alcohol poisoning.
Not to mention other sedatives/hypnotics could just as easily be slipped into the victim's drink, and Ambien isn't exactly difficult to obtain a prescription for. Alcohol plus benzos/nonbenzos is going to easily knock the victim out. So DEA, care to justify why these drugs aren't as unjustly demonized as GHB?

Anyway, an update on my recently ceased treatment with this drug:
Since I began taking it, I noticed very mild sore throat about an hour after taking each dose, which quickly subsided. I also experienced mild headaches that would happen several times a day but only occurred in 1-2 second spurts (two documented side effects). Over the past two doses, these effects began to drastically intensify, and I decided it was time to quit this horrible drug. Now it's 17 hours after I took my last 250mg dose, and the pharyngitis is still there, along with a fever, tachycardia (100-115bpm), nausea, and a mild but annoying persistent headache.

So my advice to non-epileptic patients who are prescribed this drug: Don't fill your Rx! Not only does it have little to no efficacy in treating anxiety as far as I can tell, but I haven't yet seen any evidence of it being used as a mood stabilizer, so I can't see why bipolar patients could benefit from this poison either.

Thats got to be one of the oddest off label usages of a med I have ever heard, especially since you said your doctor doesn't believe you are bi-polar.

If there's a top 10 list of psychiatric drugs in the world that doctors should be afraid of prescribing for fear of being sued, Keppra would be right near the top. It has a reputation for more than rarely sending individuals into the most intense, blackest, suicidal depression imaginable (aka my mind unmedicated). This likely will not happen to you but just be aware and dont go offing yourself if you fall into a black hole. It is important to BE INTELLECTUALLY AWARE of this side effect so you can recognize it in case you get it and not just act mindlessly on a potentially negative emotion. It's amazing for me to see people who are put into a drug induced depression suddenly realize how "out of control" of themselves depression can make one feel.
Fortunately, I haven't experienced that side effect, but I could see why someone would want to off themselves after all four of the medications their new pdoc prescribed them resulted in them feeling very ill (venlafaxine, paroxetine, duloxetine, and levetiracetam), all while having no relief from social anxiety due to effective medication being off-limits.

My pdoc: 0/4 for meds he prescribed against my will (side effects + zero efficacy)
Me: 1/1 for meds I requested (clonazepam, subtle amelioration of social anxiety + ZERO side effects).

There's also the "Keppra rage" (fits of anger like you couldn't imagine). It also has withdrawal effects that can (potentially) make effexor's look like a trip to the candy shop. I have heard women equivocate it to giving birth (intense, whole-body, down to the bone, pain; literally screaming).
I guess you could say I have a different form of "Keppra rage". Rage directed at my incompetent psychiatrist for continously taking money from my pocket each visit, wasting months of my life, and conning me into shelling out money to pharmaceutical companies who manufacturer sh*tty products that only produce incredibly irritating side-effects. He says I'm sensitive to medication - Yeah, sensitive to medication that you force on me in order to get to the good stuff, doc. UltraShy, meet Dr. Jackass #2.

Also, don't go thinking that all mood stabilizers have no value as anxiolytics. Many find them to be extremely helpful for anxiety, just not typically keppra. Every mood stabilizer I have tried amazed the hell out of me at how well they worked for reducing anxiety (depakote, lamictal, neurontin).
Lamictal was like a sugar pill to me. Neurontin I'd like to try as it can produce pro-social effects.

If clonazepam helps you why are you not using it? Or did you use it off prescription?
I have an Rx for it. That's one good thing about my pdoc, he always makes sure I leave his office with a clonazepam script in my hand. It helps me deal with SA a little, but doesn't come close to providing the efficacy I need just to get a job. I think it would be great in combination with a CNS stimulant.

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out and see if anyone has experienced similar adverse effects.

From Wikipedia:

Sounds like ****. I'd recommend getting off of it ASAP.
Yes, it is indeed ****. If I experienced any of those other side-effects I think I'd be ripping my hair out right now (no pun intended).
 

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Benzos seemed to kill effects from most drugs I tried with them.

Anticonvulsants, well, I've heard they can be anxiolytic, but I'd be really hesitant to try them as they can cause stuttering, cognitive dulling, etc.
 

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Equilibrian Epicurius
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Benzos seemed to kill effects from most drugs I tried with them.

Anticonvulsants, well, I've heard they can be anxiolytic, but I'd be really hesitant to try them as they can cause stuttering, cognitive dulling, etc.
It really depends on the sub-class of anticonvulsants. Benzos and GABA analogs cause cognitive impairment, while many racetams are nootropics therefore acting as cognitive enhancers.
 

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So one of the hoops I have to jump through to get any kind of efficacious medication is Levetiracetam, an anticonvulsant nootropic used to treat epilepsy. My pdoc claims it's a mood stabilizer with anxiolytic properties, but I have read nothing so far about it being used as either. For the last three days I've been on 250mgx2 daily, and needless to say it doesn't ameliorate my anxiety in any way.

I need a pro-social drug, but my pdoc insists that I'm experiencing anxiety which is the reason I'm so quiet in social situations. Bullsh*t! Any anxiety I may have is eliminated with clonazepam, and this drug doesn't even come close as an anxiolytic.

So does this actually help anyone with social phobia? I can't see how it could do anything besides produce somnolence in non-epileptic patients.
If you don't have anxiety anymore, you could put yourself in social situations alot instead of trying to get a drug to motivate you to put yourself in them.

Let me see if I understand correctly, you have no anxiety anymore because of clonazepam, yet you want a drug that will make you pro-social? Do you just freeze up in a social situation and can't say anything? That sounds like physical anxiety if so. If not, then it sounds like what you need is to go to social situations that force you to interact...and they do exist. Unless of course that would give you anxiety..
 

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Equilibrian Epicurius
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
If you don't have anxiety anymore, you could put yourself in social situations alot instead of trying to get a drug to motivate you to put yourself in them.

Let me see if I understand correctly, you have no anxiety anymore because of clonazepam, yet you want a drug that will make you pro-social? Do you just freeze up in a social situation and can't say anything? That sounds like physical anxiety if so. If not, then it sounds like what you need is to go to social situations that force you to interact...and they do exist. Unless of course that would give you anxiety..
My situation is rather difficult for even myself to understand. I know I have social anxiety to some extent, but I don't know if the reason I have it is because of my more prominent "disorder" being social ineptness. Clonazepam helps somewhat, but it's only because it takes away the social anxiety. The psychological anxiety, if you can call it that, remains because of my natural disposition of being unable to contribute anything in any kind of social situation, unless the conversation is centered around a specific subject I'm interested in. It's like my mind goes blank and I have absolutely nothing to say, even when I'm not feeling anxious. Yeah, I converse with my family, but not to a great extent, and there are many times where I'll be in the same room as them yet appear completely isolated as if I don't even acknowledge their presence unless I'm asked a question.

Here's what confuses me; When I drink alcohol, I can be a complete extrovert around pretty much anyone. So it's not like I lack the ability of engaging in conversation, it just needs to be unlocked by some kind of pro-social substance. I've tried exposure therapy my entire life, even after I began taking clonazepam, and I honestly don't know how to unlock this side of me when sober. I feel like I have this kind of unique disorder that nobody else has ever experienced before.
 

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My situation is rather difficult for even myself to understand. I know I have social anxiety to some extent, but I don't know if the reason I have it is because of my more prominent "disorder" being social ineptness. Clonazepam helps somewhat, but it's only because it takes away the social anxiety. The psychological anxiety, if you can call it that, remains because of my natural disposition of being unable to contribute anything in any kind of social situation, unless the conversation is centered around a specific subject I'm interested in. It's like my mind goes blank and I have absolutely nothing to say, even when I'm not feeling anxious. Yeah, I converse with my family, but not to a great extent, and there are many times where I'll be in the same room as them yet appear completely isolated as if I don't even acknowledge their presence unless I'm asked a question.

Here's what confuses me; When I drink alcohol, I can be a complete extrovert around pretty much anyone. So it's not like I lack the ability of engaging in conversation, it just needs to be unlocked by some kind of pro-social substance. I've tried exposure therapy my entire life, even after I began taking clonazepam, and I honestly don't know how to unlock this side of me when sober. I feel like I have this kind of unique disorder that nobody else has ever experienced before.
We'll one way to deal with this is by taking a *genuine* interest in other people. If you do that its very easy. Listening is as big a skill as talking and most people don't even know that. They are so busy worrying about what to say, when plenty of people would love the opportunity for just 1 person to actually listen to them meaningfully for once. The next time they see you, you will have a mutual understanding of both knowing eachother better and having less anxiety.

You can't fake it(we'll you can if your a trained salesman with no soul) and just nod your head and say "uh-huh". You have to actually think about what their saying and it clicks if you take an interest in them. If you are just using them to talk at, or as a conversational tool than its meaningless. Most people say they really enjoy talking to me, because I understand them more, when they are the ones saying 90% of the words. It also takes the spotlight off yourself and puts on them, and alot of people enjoy being in the spotlight a little.

Sometimes just letting someone talk themselves out is actually therapeutic to them and relieves alot of stress. This works better with things like their life, relationships than it does with nerd speak of things like Science fiction, movies, tv and meaningless crap like that.

It's not a unique disorder. Plenty of people grow up lacking social skills, alot of times because of their parents silly systems and beliefs. I was raised in an extremely protective environment of religious charismatic pentacostal people where social skills consist of how insane you can act at a worship service & how on fire for jesus you were, if you weren't at one. So you have to learn them. There are ways to do it, one is by being around someone who is extremely good at them alot, another is taking speech and communications classes, joining a speaking club, another is learning how to listen etc

I just don't even bother with drinking its too counterproductive
 
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