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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello guys,

If you want to find abit more background about me and perhaps my anxiety issues, you can probably find my introductory thread in the newbie forum :)
As for now here i'd just like to discuss an issue which actually drove me to sign up at SAS. I'll try to be brief and refrain from self-deprecation and "whiny" talk, and try to describe the situation as forthrightly as possible.

Okay, basically like the title suggests, I suspect that the opposite sex (that's girls/women btw) is generally repulsed by me. I have been single thus far, which is not a problem in itself, but contrary to the vast majority of my peers, I have not had any intimate relations, or for that matter, even casual friendly relations with any girls. I socialize quite normally with guys, but it is apparent not just to myself but even to the casual onlooker that girls are consciously avoiding contact (be it physical or even verbal/eye) with me.

Obviously such a situation like this would be damaging to any normal young man's self esteem. And I'm fairly confident that this repulsive "ability" happens 24/7, functioning 365 days a year, full steam ahead for what could be the rest of my life, impeding not just any possibility of a romantic relationship, but even normal social functioning as many situations in college invariably involve the presence of the opposite sex.

For instance, I can be sitting next to a girl during lecture and she will be giving off extremely negative body language towards me; if I should ever try to strike up a friendly conversation with her I would be swiftly rebuffed or replied sparingly - it is obvious that my conversing is not the offense, but rather the very idea of my entering a conversation with her.

This even applies to "socializing" with the few girls whom I have known for some time and somehow reached a level of casual friendship - while due to our being friends they are quite okay to converse in a superficial manner, they also give off negative verbal and visual cues as if to imply "i'd rather be elsewhere" or "why am I having small talk with you". Even when I make eye contact with girls, I quite often get the "stop looking at me you creep/rapist/pervert" look! :um

I may not be the most natural person when speaking in a social setting but I definitely do not, consciously or otherwise, attempt to influence, insult, poke fun of, proselytize, nag, drone, lecture towards her. As far as I'm sure of, the only thing that comes close is some minor body odor from my sweating condition (that's SA for you) but the few friends I've had tell me I smell just fine. A few have also told me I tend to have "creepy eyes" but that's a joke. Or maybe it has some minor relevance but I would not know.

Okay to sum up very quickly everything i've just said - girls just can't stand me. It's quite possible that even the few female friends i have hate me (although that's probably just conjecture at this point) but the amount of disgust that seems to come through is both palpable and disconcerting.
Please help me get to the root of this problem - i've gone through many self-help books and online guides but nothing seems to come close!:afr

Thanks in advance~ :)
 

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Neurotic megalomaniac
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I assumed for a long time that girls automatically thought I was a creep. I slowly changed my thinking when I'd force myself to fight those thoughts - when I noticed that women were actually willing to talk to me, and they often didn't show repugnance towards me. Like yesterday, I asked a waitress a question and she gave me more information than the question required, and I saw something as little as that as a positive indication - if I was such a bad person in the eyes of women, she would have been shorter with me.

Part of it is in your head (they are not disgusted) and part of it is the lack of social finesse that should come naturally to normal people but doesn't to us. I should speak for myself here - it's hard for me to show facial expressions which makes it hard for the other person to talk to me.

I had enough courage yesterday to make small talk with a woman. She left at her earliest convenience. I tried to see it as a good thing that I talked to her, and accept that if I didn't have SA I probably would have made her feel comfortable enough to talk to me more (this sounds bad but I see it as realistic and helpful - she didn't leave because I'm a bad person, she left because I didn't have the necessary social skills, which can be improved).

Continue to talk to women. Take anything positive you get from it, even if it's just the fact you talked to them. When you don't connect don't feel down about it, sometimes it's going to be inevitable due to SA. Over time you'll get better at making them feel more comfortable around you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
@joinmartin:

Thanks. I think the issue in this case is that I am not coming into it with a predefined mindset that "i am a creep no one is going to talk to me everyone hates me" etc. Actually I have always been quite a positive person and gimping myself from the start by thinking such thoughts is not something that I do.

It is because (to simplify this issue) women avoid me that I think I might be a creep. Not that I think I am a creep, therefore women avoid me.

As to why I wish to engage more effectively with women, you are right that it is partly due to social pressures and peer validation. But to deny this natural desire for social involvement (not to be mistaken for conformity) would be grievously wrong - what if when I graduate and join the working world, I should require in my line of work to talk to all sorts of people including women? Then it would be a little too late to change this situation. I'd rather solve this problem sooner than later.

I often keep my mind open constantly, try my best not to judge any responses or misperceive any signs, looking on the whole in a positive manner; i'm just intrigued as to why the signals are overwhelmingly negative time and time again. Something is wrong here and even if I was being overtly negative or judgemental, my mindset would only be a minor part of the problem.

Again, thanks for your support :)

@rubyruby:

Yes, I will try to take whatever positive signs I might get. It is just that as I replied up there to joinmartin, I have yet to see anything of that sort.

Also, yes, I am underweight (a bmi of 18 ) but I do hit the gym twice a week. Perhaps the only problem is my height, which is on-par with Napoleon at 5'7, but I am not a believer of the view that social skills hinge on one's physical appearance.

I also dress quite "decently", without salvation army pants or ridiculous spiked collars or any overt fashion statement of the sort.

In all my defences it may seem that i am trying to push the blame onto women (like some cowardly misogynist). This is absolutely false; I am just as puzzled as anyone else as to what is wrong here.
 

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PessimisticallyOptimistic
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SAD folks tend to wear their emotions on their sleeves. If you're self conscious it will show by the way you walk, talk, eat, etc. I think very much like you do. Whenever I meet females, I am always fixated on their facial expressions and mannerisms. Even if I am not interested in them, I find myself wondering what they think of me.

I've been experimenting recently by smiling when people approach me or saying 'hello' first. I stopped keeping my hands in my pocket and looking down all the time. Amazingly, people reacted different. My only problem is that it's really hard to find the courage to act like that all the time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
@fonzo: thanks for the advice. yes i have been largely successful with the courage aspect of smiling and greeting first. i try as much as possible to be as extrovert around others, and i think largely it works because i can socialize fairly well with diff. types of guys.

we both have had the same problems with the hands-in-pocket thing but i am of the opinion that as long as you refrain from doing so in a social setting it is okay, for me i sweat like crazy so i cannot keep my arms too inwards or there wont be any.. uh... ventilation.

@dunky:

actually when the time affords it i shower twice a day. and most definitely before i go out for any sort of event or meeting. quite unfortunately as soon as the SA starts up, ah...
thanks for the tip though. i have been trying to be even more consciencious with my hygiene in light of this fact.
 

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I'm a girl and I'm the same way, but with people in general. Like in class if the person next to me does anything, the tiniest thing like maybe be leaning to the side or leaning their head on their hand, I'll think, "What the **** is wrong with them? Did I do something? Do I smell? Am I ugly or something? **** I hate people... etcetc...". Sometimes it's all in your head. I'm trying to tell myself that and maybe you should too.

Do you think you might come on too strong? As a girl I can say sometimes it's very uncomfortable and annoying to be hit on by some random guy. But I always try to be pleasant. However, there is a thin line. If you're too pleasant the guy thinks it's a sign you are into him and then he'll come on even stronger, a situation that is hard to tactfully escape. Some girls can be really cold and mean when they think a guy is hitting on them, some girls are just b*tches. Maybe the girls you are meeting are just beyotches, lol!
 

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It is the nonverbal cues. You will to practice and gain confidence in your ability to speak. With that comes an uplifted mood, a smile, and most of all, availability. I am getting this now.
 

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Inherently repulsive the opposite sex?
I've pretty much had the same deal going on all my life. Though I don't much care anymore, it used to really bother me. Especially when I was in school in my teens. I felt like such a freak because all the way through school, I was always the only guy in my class with absolutely no girls expressing any interest whatsoever in me even though I kept myself clean and wore nice clothes.

If and when I did express some interest in a particular girl, her reaction was always along the general lines of "No way! Don't even look at me!". I wouldn't say they reacted extremely negatively. Just that it was almost never at all a positive or good reaction.

It has always seemed that females preferred to think of me as a friend or some random person they passed on the street if they regarded me as anything at all. This caused me to think very negatively of myself in my school years. Over the years, I've built up enough self-esteem that I really don't care what they think or whether they like me. It's for the best anyway because I couldn't deal with a relationship on any level.

I don't know what to tell you. I wish I could tell you not to let it bother you but if it does, it does.
 

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I'm not trying to be mean but do you need a makeover? My stepson is 28 doesn't have a girlfriend neither do his friends. But he wears pants from the salvation army. He doesn't exercise at all. He is underweight.

There is a book called "How to Talk to Anyone" 92 little tricks by Leil Lowndes.

Try reading that or buy the CD and listen to it every night.
Sorry but this is a cop out. I've had the same issues as the OP all my life and the way females behaved around me has always been the same no matter how well I dressed, how I acted, what I said, what I ate, whether or not I was in decent shape, what kind of car I was driving. It wasn't any of those things. It was just me they didn't like. Maybe my looks. I don't know. But if that's it, there's not a whole lot a person can do about that.
 

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It sucks sitting around at a party and having some girl circle the room making out with every guy there except you. The feeling you get when she smooches the guy to your left and then passes right by you to smooch the guy to your right is rotten. And then the next day she'll see you walking somewhere and greet you with "hey buddy, how's it going" in a very patronizing manner, so I honestly get the feeling that I'm some sort of idiot charity case to most girls because I don't hang out with any of their immature friends which she interprets as me having no friends and therefore needing pity as a result. So yeah
 

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I don't think I'd be confortable making out with a girl that just made out with someone else just minutes before

But I've had issues with the kiss on the cheek thing. If there was a line of people, girls would just walk right past me and go to the next guy

happened to me plenty of times, I mean it's bad enough never having a GF but when members of the opposite sex purposely skip greeting you, on what would seem like a "forced" situation, just slams your self esteem
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The initial impression i'm getting here from the recent slew of posts is that i'm definitely not alone. We're in this together guys, and somehow yet none of us seem to have any concrete answer as to why this occurs. it just does. And i'm willing to bet that we all come from different walks of life and are pretty much quite "normal" otherwise. its just something like an x-factor is missing, or whatever.

I've heard girls are expert subconscious face readers so maybe they can see something in us we cant - they themselves may not realize it because it happens beneath the surface of their conscious thought. As neuroscience and study into male female relationships improves they'll probably find some explanation for this but it will most likely be too late to be of any use to us. oh well.

@malaise: thanks for sharing with us your thoughts, its always interesting to hear things from "the other side" haha. And yes I am aware that I may be misperceiving or reading too much into things but some negative signs are really hard to misinterpret.

And I definitely do not hit on them. I'm just having a normal conversation to get to know them better. I refrain from showing too much emotion or interest, everything moderated and done sensibly. This puzzles me no end. Maybe I should change tack and just act nuts or something, possibly this might endear me to at least some of the crazy ones.
 

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Maybe my looks. I don't know. But if that's it, there's not a whole lot a person can do about that.
You can change your looks but not your height.
 

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Time Lord
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I can relate to this
i can't say i've ever had any problems with girls...but i am often more comfortable with them overall
boys however...the ones who know me just don't seem to like me all that well...even as a friend
if it is somebody i have never met (ie. IM/interweb person/friend/aquaintance) they seem to like me well enough personality-wise
which kinda leads me to believe I must be hideous or something...though i would like to think i am not...
I dunno...maybe i just need to stop thinking about it:|
 

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This may be really cliche, but maybe try being yourself. Just try acting how you would with a guy friend, or your brother or your sister. Don't put so much pressure on yourself. Obviously this is easier said than done, but you'll only attract the right person for you if you're being yourself. I for one, have always been attracted to the loner, weirdo, crazy guys, and vice versa. If I'm in a room I can zero in on the black sheep. Maybe it's because I'm like that myself, and am more sensitive to that kind of person.


I'm kind of confused though, because in your first post you said you've never had casual relations with girls but then later on you say you do have a few friends who are girls?
 

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I don't know if I'm really in a position to be giving advice, but from my experience a lot of it comes down to body language. If you look really shifty-eyed, paranoid, scared of the situation then you will come off as looking creepy because others won't understand that any of that is what you're feeling. And even if they do, they won't be drawn to you. This is something I struggled with for a long time. I thought people intentionally avoided me and left me out for no reason... but then I realized I was sending people all the wrong signals. The best way to understand this is to ask yourself if you would be put off or intimidated by someone with your body language.

On the other hand, if you relax, loosen up and avoid giving off the appearance of being rigid or tense women will be much more likely to start conversation with you. Maybe crack one really good joke at some point when you're around them. I tried something like this on Tuesday and I was surprised at how much it worked considering how little I actually did.

Most of it is your attitude. If you have thoughts of discomfort and unease people will see that discomfort and unease. However, if you convince yourself that no one really cares (which is much closer to the truth most of the time) then you'll have a much easier time putting yourself out there.
 

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Okay to sum up very quickly everything i've just said - girls just can't stand me. It's quite possible that even the few female friends i have hate me (although that's probably just conjecture at this point) but the amount of disgust that seems to come through is both palpable and disconcerting.
Please help me get to the root of this problem - i've gone through many self-help books and online guides but nothing seems to come close!:afr

Thanks in advance~ :)
There are only 2 things that are really "repulsive" to the opposite sex, because honestly if you're doing anything else, there's probably no way they're even thinking about you in the first place.

1. you're generally overweight, unattractive, smell bad, etc...but like...overly so
2. you're a straight up *******, say mean things, socially awkward, don't respond to social cues, or straight up insult them

Other than those things, and if you know for a fact you don't do those things then it is definitely all in your head.

What should you do?
1. Stop focusing on either yourself, or on singular person. If you do this you'll be overly self-conscious, or putting this other person on a pedestal.
2. Be a genuinely nice guy, and make sure things flow around you. I guess this is the definition of social skills, but if you make things easy for people around you they're more likely to wanna spend time around you. This could mean jokes, small talk, eye contact, smiling, compliments, etc; just some of the basics. Ask questions about them!

Nobody is generally repulsed by someone, unless those two things in the beginning applied to you. If they do, well wouldn't you want to fix those things for yourself anyway? I mean if you think about it even unattractive, mean, annoying people have friends of the opposite sex. It's obviously all in your head.
 

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HaloOfDarkness
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I'm the same way but with men instead of women. I seem to get along better with women more than I do men. I don't have any guy friends at the moment but so and so at work has about 50 or more and if she isn't friends with them then she either once was or she at least knows who they are.

I get the impression from men that I'm really scary to talk to only because I hardly ever smile and they probably think I'm unfriendly. The other thing could be that I'm overweight and possibly unattractive. I'd say I'm average looking but I could very well be extremely ugly and not even know it. Men never show interest in me and I never show interest in them because I know better then to be interested. Of course my negative attitude doesn't help but it's built me so what can say really.

I have no advice but I can surely relate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hi guys,

again thanks so much for the replies. the advice was all encouraging and to those who came up with their own stories, i also feel encouraged that we're all in this together and not alone.

i will follow through on the tips and hope and see if things start improving. i'm not expecting overnight miracles of course though; patience is an integral part of successful self-improvement. if there are any encouraging signs or responses i will be sure to share them with you all. and of course theres always something to learn from every failure even, so i will try my best to take those in stride as i have been attempting to for the past few years. haha.
 
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