Tonight I'm heading downtown to the bars by myself. I don't want to put too much emphasis on what I plan on doing tonight, so I'm aiming for just talking to people and NOT just women in particular. I don't want to be disappointed because I don't talk to women. Rather, my main goal for the evening will be to go, try and enjoy myself and socialize with those around me. I want to get used to this. Although I want to meet a girl, I don't want to make excuses for not going alone and meeting new people in general and denying myself the opportunity to have fun. Last few times I went I went with a friend and that kind of prevents me from talking to others. I want to socialize and mingle. Wish me luck!
Doing the Nightlife
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LOL, sorry. When I posted that it was actually earlier than what it appears because my time settings aren't accurate.
Anyways, went out last night but my friend accompanied me. I didn't think he was going to be able to go but he was able so three people actually ended up going. I talked to a few different people but nothing special. Happy I went; nothing life-altering. I'm trying to adopt a new attitude on my conversation which I noted this morning:
First of all, you’ve always had the skill to be a great conversationalist. The only reason you think you aren’t is for a few reasons:
1) Lack of proof
You haven’t given yourself enough evidence that enforces your belief you’re a good conversationalist.
2) Concluding off others’ reactions
Just because someone acts offish towards you doesn’t mean you’re a bad conversationalist.
3) Because you don’t feel confident you assume your not good at communicating
This is not true. The fundamentals are simple no matter how confident you feel: conversation is a two-way deal. You cannot expect a good conversation with someone who is only willing to speak about themselves, their situation or remain disinterested for w/e reason. Just because your not confident doesn’t mean your not able to maintain a good conversation.
Q: How do I remain a competent confident speaker?
Conversation is a two-way deal. If you notice, most people are bent on only speaking about themselves and their situation rather than contributing towards the conversation as a whole by asking questions. Good conversationalists realize that to engage an interesting conversation the party as a whole must be participating and sharing information together. Therefore, good conversationalist take part in BOTH speaking and active listening. To remain a competent speaker is to realize that no matter what you think about yourself you already know the fundamentals of speaking and are good at it, you don’t conclude yourself from others and you stay confident by holding these beliefs. Do not assume you need any attitude adjustment for good conversation. Conversation is more about contributing rather than creating a persona.
Anyways, went out last night but my friend accompanied me. I didn't think he was going to be able to go but he was able so three people actually ended up going. I talked to a few different people but nothing special. Happy I went; nothing life-altering. I'm trying to adopt a new attitude on my conversation which I noted this morning:
First of all, you’ve always had the skill to be a great conversationalist. The only reason you think you aren’t is for a few reasons:
1) Lack of proof
You haven’t given yourself enough evidence that enforces your belief you’re a good conversationalist.
2) Concluding off others’ reactions
Just because someone acts offish towards you doesn’t mean you’re a bad conversationalist.
3) Because you don’t feel confident you assume your not good at communicating
This is not true. The fundamentals are simple no matter how confident you feel: conversation is a two-way deal. You cannot expect a good conversation with someone who is only willing to speak about themselves, their situation or remain disinterested for w/e reason. Just because your not confident doesn’t mean your not able to maintain a good conversation.
Q: How do I remain a competent confident speaker?
Conversation is a two-way deal. If you notice, most people are bent on only speaking about themselves and their situation rather than contributing towards the conversation as a whole by asking questions. Good conversationalists realize that to engage an interesting conversation the party as a whole must be participating and sharing information together. Therefore, good conversationalist take part in BOTH speaking and active listening. To remain a competent speaker is to realize that no matter what you think about yourself you already know the fundamentals of speaking and are good at it, you don’t conclude yourself from others and you stay confident by holding these beliefs. Do not assume you need any attitude adjustment for good conversation. Conversation is more about contributing rather than creating a persona.
Ok, so I've made the decision to head out alone again. The only person I'd want to go with me is my friend Victor but he recently has met another lady friend and he seems pretty busy with that, so I'll let him be for a while...
Anyways, I have a feeling I'm going to be pretty nervous about this. I feel like I'm going to be doing this for the first time even though that isn't true, but it's still new to me. I don't want anything to hold me back and I almost feel that I need to do this as a way to jump start some juices within me as I've been lackadaisical about this stuff lately; waiting for a sign.
Last time I went out alone it was about a month ago and I went to a club in downtown Akron. Never been there before and was only there for about 30mins. I was pretty self-conscious but I managed to talk to a few people but nothing long or interesting because I didn't venture from the bar. I remember going home frustrated probably because I felt like I failed at doing something that night and I felt just odd about it all and telling myself I'd never do it again. However, I know I'm capable of enjoying myself if I reconfigure my game plan and my attitude. I feel like I'm working from a novice frame of mind and there is much I need to realize and learn. I know when I get there I'm going to be nervous and self-conscious as hell but I'm nervous about a lot of things, especially when they are new. I can do this and have fun if I stay with it.
This time I plan on checking out another place (bar or club) probably downtown Akron. I may even go to a few local bars a couple days before hand on the weekdays before I go on a popular Friday or Saturday night.
Here are my goals:
-Go to bar or club alone
-Engage anyone in conversation (duration doesn’t matter)
-If necessary, approach a group of people and introduce/conversation (duration doesn’t matter)
Most people go out in groups. It's likely I will have to approach a set of people, which is ok. I don't want to remain inactive as I did the last time I went out alone as I will be prone to getting bored, feeling awkward and probably end up leaving. My best bet is to focus on socializing which will be beneficial to me in many ways. I don't want to elaborate too much on a game plan because it doesn't need to be complicated. I'll try to update the results soon.
Anyways, I have a feeling I'm going to be pretty nervous about this. I feel like I'm going to be doing this for the first time even though that isn't true, but it's still new to me. I don't want anything to hold me back and I almost feel that I need to do this as a way to jump start some juices within me as I've been lackadaisical about this stuff lately; waiting for a sign.
Last time I went out alone it was about a month ago and I went to a club in downtown Akron. Never been there before and was only there for about 30mins. I was pretty self-conscious but I managed to talk to a few people but nothing long or interesting because I didn't venture from the bar. I remember going home frustrated probably because I felt like I failed at doing something that night and I felt just odd about it all and telling myself I'd never do it again. However, I know I'm capable of enjoying myself if I reconfigure my game plan and my attitude. I feel like I'm working from a novice frame of mind and there is much I need to realize and learn. I know when I get there I'm going to be nervous and self-conscious as hell but I'm nervous about a lot of things, especially when they are new. I can do this and have fun if I stay with it.
This time I plan on checking out another place (bar or club) probably downtown Akron. I may even go to a few local bars a couple days before hand on the weekdays before I go on a popular Friday or Saturday night.
Here are my goals:
-Go to bar or club alone
-Engage anyone in conversation (duration doesn’t matter)
-If necessary, approach a group of people and introduce/conversation (duration doesn’t matter)
Most people go out in groups. It's likely I will have to approach a set of people, which is ok. I don't want to remain inactive as I did the last time I went out alone as I will be prone to getting bored, feeling awkward and probably end up leaving. My best bet is to focus on socializing which will be beneficial to me in many ways. I don't want to elaborate too much on a game plan because it doesn't need to be complicated. I'll try to update the results soon.
Wow, so this was a pretty amazing time tonight...
I ended up driving about 23mins to downtown Akron to check out a pretty busy bar called Whisky Dick's smack in the middle of the heart of downtown. For a Tuesday it wasn't that busy so when I arrived there was only about 5 people there lounging drinking some drinks. To my surprise, the bartender (a really cute 24 year old woman) was very nice and friendly towards me. She started a conversation about working there and we got talking for about 5 minutes about school, work and it was a real refreshing conversation. She stated she was there since 1pm and she had to close and was basically just saying how it was going to be a long night. Whether they require their bartenders to talk to customers or not, it was really nice to have a friendly and meaningful conversation with an absolute stranger. It was beyond what I expected to tell the truth.
Also, after a few beers and me just looking up at the tv watching espn some guy in a mohawk introduced himself by the name of Todd. He starts talking about how he's an architecture graduate and before long I find out he's the owner of the entire bar! So we start talking about school, work, life ambitions and just BS'n and he buys me a drink and offers me a free game in pool! I actually thought I was going to win but lost by just a couple of balls. This guy was about 37 and really friendly and it he made me feel extremely welcome and it went past my expectations!
So I'm driving home thinking to myself what I'm going to write here on these forums because it's almost as if I made it up, but the truth is people are very friendly. There are some people who do what they can to start trouble but those people generally are the minority. I'm so happy I went and I plan on going out alone more often! Nobody thought I was weird and overall I got to know the bartender, the bouncer, and the owner in one single shot around 1.5 hours! I'm not sure if I'm proud of myself for doing this or just genuinely satisfied with tonight, but either way I'm very happy I went and this experience will be etched in my memory-bank for some time! Yay!
!!!!
I've come a long way and I'm proud of myself! Lately I've been feeling very at ease with some of the oddest things, like going solo to bars for example. I've been dating more often and getting to know some really friendly and pretty women with a level of comfort I've never knew before. I'm living my life without fear and it's all because I've learned so much and I'm very grateful for that! There will always be fears in my life but the best lesson I've learned is I can learn and overcome. Most of this crap is in our heads. I'll try and post more of my experiences in the future
I ended up driving about 23mins to downtown Akron to check out a pretty busy bar called Whisky Dick's smack in the middle of the heart of downtown. For a Tuesday it wasn't that busy so when I arrived there was only about 5 people there lounging drinking some drinks. To my surprise, the bartender (a really cute 24 year old woman) was very nice and friendly towards me. She started a conversation about working there and we got talking for about 5 minutes about school, work and it was a real refreshing conversation. She stated she was there since 1pm and she had to close and was basically just saying how it was going to be a long night. Whether they require their bartenders to talk to customers or not, it was really nice to have a friendly and meaningful conversation with an absolute stranger. It was beyond what I expected to tell the truth.
Also, after a few beers and me just looking up at the tv watching espn some guy in a mohawk introduced himself by the name of Todd. He starts talking about how he's an architecture graduate and before long I find out he's the owner of the entire bar! So we start talking about school, work, life ambitions and just BS'n and he buys me a drink and offers me a free game in pool! I actually thought I was going to win but lost by just a couple of balls. This guy was about 37 and really friendly and it he made me feel extremely welcome and it went past my expectations!
So I'm driving home thinking to myself what I'm going to write here on these forums because it's almost as if I made it up, but the truth is people are very friendly. There are some people who do what they can to start trouble but those people generally are the minority. I'm so happy I went and I plan on going out alone more often! Nobody thought I was weird and overall I got to know the bartender, the bouncer, and the owner in one single shot around 1.5 hours! I'm not sure if I'm proud of myself for doing this or just genuinely satisfied with tonight, but either way I'm very happy I went and this experience will be etched in my memory-bank for some time! Yay!
!!!!I've come a long way and I'm proud of myself! Lately I've been feeling very at ease with some of the oddest things, like going solo to bars for example. I've been dating more often and getting to know some really friendly and pretty women with a level of comfort I've never knew before. I'm living my life without fear and it's all because I've learned so much and I'm very grateful for that! There will always be fears in my life but the best lesson I've learned is I can learn and overcome. Most of this crap is in our heads. I'll try and post more of my experiences in the future
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That's really great!
I'm not sure I'm close to being able to do that. I'm still nervous in bars when I go with people.
Also I'm not sure how it would work being a woman. I think it would be different.
I'm not sure I'm close to being able to do that. I'm still nervous in bars when I go with people.
Also I'm not sure how it would work being a woman. I think it would be different.
I ended up going out again last night with my friend Victor. It's kind of sad going to bars sometimes because the guy to girl ratio was way unbalanced; about 3/4 men. It's kind of ridiculous really and I'm not sure if that's just how it was last night or how it is all the time or if it was the specific bar or what. I hate it but I almost automatically feel like just another dude trying to pick up on women at a bar and what makes it worse is you see some women sitting around and having guys approaching them constantly. It just seems way unfair, especially with the 3/4 men ratio over women. And my friend Victor has this thing where he tries to act like he's a gangster-bad *** which quite frankly is embarrassing sometimes (I know how shallow that seems but it's true). He's cool to go out with sometimes because he's great company but he's pretty controversial and reckless at times. So I don't know, perhaps it's better if I go alone? I'd rather go alone than make another friend to go with for some reason.
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121 Posts
this i really inspiring.
ive been thinking about goin to bars/pubs alone.. im 25 and female. just to see if i can do it. though i'm not sure if im ready yet - i dont think id be able to approacdh people. id probabl go to hear live music
do you find alcohol plays a big part in uninhibiting yourself? i noticed you said you were driving..so i thought maybe you manage without.
ive been thinking about goin to bars/pubs alone.. im 25 and female. just to see if i can do it. though i'm not sure if im ready yet - i dont think id be able to approacdh people. id probabl go to hear live music
do you find alcohol plays a big part in uninhibiting yourself? i noticed you said you were driving..so i thought maybe you manage without.
Back in the day I wouldn't be able to do something like this but I've come a long way. Beer really isn't the thing that calms me down or anything it's more of a practical sense about how people are and what makes me comfortable. You have to understand that I'm also active in many semi-social things like work (chipotles as a server), college, and trying to maintain a somewhat social life which all have benefited my confidence. The combination of already being in social environments throughout my week, the raised bar-level of learning and comfort zones and just things I've tweaked in my head to get me motivated enough to do things. I believe that if I'm scared/shy/nervous about something that it's something I can gain comfort from by trial and error and by immersing myself in it. I've found it hurts way more to not do anything than to be motivated, inspired and challenged.
As far as drinking goes, I try to limit myself when I go out because I don't want to be drunk by myself or if I'm driving. Still, I realize this is no excuse.
Need to find that confidence again
Ok, so for about a whole week I've been pondering what happened to my motivation to meet women? Where'd it go? If your looking for an answer I can't really tell you but what I can say is that I've found something to motivate me again to take action.
I don't know why but for some reason this last week has been a bit down for me and I've seemed to lose confidence in myself. It was only 10 days ago I went to a bar in downtown Akron by myself and met some cool people, so what's up with the sudden loss of confidence in myself? I don't even feel like I can have a decent conversation with someone today and I'm feeling pretty negative about a lot of things. No matter, I've decided to build my confidence back up so I can go back out and meet some more people.
I feel like I need to gain some confidence with my conversation again because I'm feeling socially awkward with it recently and feel like I have nothing to contribute. So instead of trying to jump back on the bandwagon and going to the bar alone or with a pal to meet people, I'm going to start off back at square one and work my confidence back up talking with people. I already did so on yahoo messenger with a breeze, took a few notes, and plan on doing so with more people tomorrow. What's interesting to note is that my negativity has been really effecting my positive affirmations. I've been walking around telling myself that I'm capable of so many things lately and then WHAM here comes the negative thinking and negative affirmations. So I need to stop them and build my way back up. It shouldn't take long. Hopefully, I'm back out there working towards my main goal soon!
This site has helped me remember to take pressure off of conversation:
http://selfpursuit.com/the-art-of-conversation-with-strangers/27/
Ok, so for about a whole week I've been pondering what happened to my motivation to meet women? Where'd it go? If your looking for an answer I can't really tell you but what I can say is that I've found something to motivate me again to take action.
I don't know why but for some reason this last week has been a bit down for me and I've seemed to lose confidence in myself. It was only 10 days ago I went to a bar in downtown Akron by myself and met some cool people, so what's up with the sudden loss of confidence in myself? I don't even feel like I can have a decent conversation with someone today and I'm feeling pretty negative about a lot of things. No matter, I've decided to build my confidence back up so I can go back out and meet some more people.
I feel like I need to gain some confidence with my conversation again because I'm feeling socially awkward with it recently and feel like I have nothing to contribute. So instead of trying to jump back on the bandwagon and going to the bar alone or with a pal to meet people, I'm going to start off back at square one and work my confidence back up talking with people. I already did so on yahoo messenger with a breeze, took a few notes, and plan on doing so with more people tomorrow. What's interesting to note is that my negativity has been really effecting my positive affirmations. I've been walking around telling myself that I'm capable of so many things lately and then WHAM here comes the negative thinking and negative affirmations. So I need to stop them and build my way back up. It shouldn't take long. Hopefully, I'm back out there working towards my main goal soon!
This site has helped me remember to take pressure off of conversation:
http://selfpursuit.com/the-art-of-conversation-with-strangers/27/
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12,713 Posts
2) is the hardest part for me.
and that about conversation? powerful sentence, that.
This'll be my last post for this thread. Went out to the bars last night for my friend's cousin's 21st bday. Plenty of women around but didn't talk to any of them. I didn't talk much to anybody besides my friend Victor. Seemed like the crazier you were the better you'd fit in. I drank quite a few; never really got crazy like the people that were with me. It's 9am and I feel like crap right now. Beyond that, I don't really know what to think about myself. I had ample opportunity to talk to women but didn't do it. I don't know whether it was because I was feeling out of place or a combination of that and shyness. Either way, in some fashion it blew my whole conversation goal right out the water. A part of me wants to say that I'm a failure for not really doing anything last night but what is that going to accomplish? I don't even know why that all matters right now. I was the one who really didn't say much of anything to anyone all night and that's probably why I feel so strange. Still, this doesn't define who I am nor my capabilities. I feel like I've dragged this thread on long enough. Sooner or later I'll want to do this crap all over again. I know I'll be thinking to myself I can meet women at a bar and will want to go again. Almost stupid really because none of this stuff should be hard for me, and IO don't know why I don't sometimes do the things I say I am. I won't lie to myself, most of the reason I went was to meet women and I should of at least tried. Instead, all I have now is a hangover, loss of money and a loss of ego. I won't blame it on the bars, nor the people who flock there because I know better. Nothing has changed for me. I still have great opportunity o meet the people I'm looking for. I won't use this as an excuse for why I suck because that's just being too hard on myself. Anyways, time to end this thread. Goal accomplished? LOL? What was the goal again?
EDIT: I won't lie to myself. It's my fault I am the way I am. It's my fault for the reasons I think the way I think. It's the truth and I'm not sugarcoating it anymore. It's not really about building up your confidence, being in the right place, or knowing the right people; it's about just doing it because people aren't going to hold your hand and tell you what's good for you. I need to stop making excuses for my behavior. I'm just making it hard on myself and I know I’m beyond the point of being capable so it’s useless to keep *****ing.
EDIT: I won't lie to myself. It's my fault I am the way I am. It's my fault for the reasons I think the way I think. It's the truth and I'm not sugarcoating it anymore. It's not really about building up your confidence, being in the right place, or knowing the right people; it's about just doing it because people aren't going to hold your hand and tell you what's good for you. I need to stop making excuses for my behavior. I'm just making it hard on myself and I know I’m beyond the point of being capable so it’s useless to keep *****ing.
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835 Posts
good post
Screw it, I'm bringing this thread back up...
I've been thinking about going out alone again tonight. I've looked all over goggle for some feedback on this and probably 80% of people, shy or not shy, say they wouldn't do this. Why? Because they said it'd be awkward and boring. For women I can understand going out alone and how that could be dangerous, but as for men, what other excuses are people using beside looking and feeling awkward?
It's strange how we see people going on dates to coffee shops and dinner dates where everyone in the world is there and possibly watching you, so what's the difference about going alone somewhere? It's the same thing. To me, it's MORE nerving to sit in front of someone and hold an interesting conversation while sipping on coffee then it would be going to a bar alone. Everyone says it's not good to go alone but how often have they done it? I know some people have and haven't enjoyed themselves but that's possibly because they never went to talk to anybody but if they did those people weren't very receptive or kind.
I've went out alone once and it was fun (read above)! Some interesting aspects about going out alone is that your nervous when you get there so it's not that much worse to talk to someone. In fact, talking to someone makes you look less awkward so your actually looking forward to it! Going out alone makes it easier to interact with new people because you want to fit in, whereas if your with a group of friends, breaking away from them seems strange and intimidating as your already in your comfort spot.
I've been down lately and doubting myself because I don't talk much with people at school or work for various reasons. I think going out LOOKING FORWARD to talking with people will be different and will be refreshing. SO screw it, I'm going to a local spot down the street to talk to some people and have a cold one or two. It shouldn't be difficult if I make the decision to sit close by someone, order a drink, watch the tube and small talk. I'll post the results when I get back...
P.S. One thing I've noticed is if I set out to go somewhere with a goal in mind and do not at least attempt to do it, it gives me reason to doubt myself. I've found it's nearly always better to at least try and it won't be as bad as going with a goal in mind and not doing anything about it. I'll make my goals simple for tonight: go out, sit by someone, small talk, have a couple drinks, leave. If this is done successfully then I know it'll make me feel better and should motivate me to continue to keep doing such things.
I've been thinking about going out alone again tonight. I've looked all over goggle for some feedback on this and probably 80% of people, shy or not shy, say they wouldn't do this. Why? Because they said it'd be awkward and boring. For women I can understand going out alone and how that could be dangerous, but as for men, what other excuses are people using beside looking and feeling awkward?
It's strange how we see people going on dates to coffee shops and dinner dates where everyone in the world is there and possibly watching you, so what's the difference about going alone somewhere? It's the same thing. To me, it's MORE nerving to sit in front of someone and hold an interesting conversation while sipping on coffee then it would be going to a bar alone. Everyone says it's not good to go alone but how often have they done it? I know some people have and haven't enjoyed themselves but that's possibly because they never went to talk to anybody but if they did those people weren't very receptive or kind.
I've went out alone once and it was fun (read above)! Some interesting aspects about going out alone is that your nervous when you get there so it's not that much worse to talk to someone. In fact, talking to someone makes you look less awkward so your actually looking forward to it! Going out alone makes it easier to interact with new people because you want to fit in, whereas if your with a group of friends, breaking away from them seems strange and intimidating as your already in your comfort spot.
I've been down lately and doubting myself because I don't talk much with people at school or work for various reasons. I think going out LOOKING FORWARD to talking with people will be different and will be refreshing. SO screw it, I'm going to a local spot down the street to talk to some people and have a cold one or two. It shouldn't be difficult if I make the decision to sit close by someone, order a drink, watch the tube and small talk. I'll post the results when I get back...
P.S. One thing I've noticed is if I set out to go somewhere with a goal in mind and do not at least attempt to do it, it gives me reason to doubt myself. I've found it's nearly always better to at least try and it won't be as bad as going with a goal in mind and not doing anything about it. I'll make my goals simple for tonight: go out, sit by someone, small talk, have a couple drinks, leave. If this is done successfully then I know it'll make me feel better and should motivate me to continue to keep doing such things.
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I always thought going to a bar alone would set myself up for disaster. I have stories and I only went to the bars four times - June, 1999.
That literally started a rebirth, but it was like starting all over (rebuilding a machine).
That literally started a rebirth, but it was like starting all over (rebuilding a machine).
Yeah, I actually read about your experience in a previous thread about the same subject. Last night I drove down past the bar so I could pick up some money from the atm and when I drove by I glanced inside and it was packed because of preseason football. Usually this place isn't as packed and I thought it'd be a good idea to go and talk to some locals but last night it was jammed and I decided not to because I wasn't ready for all of that. I realize that it's best that I do some of these things because it'll keep me motivated and optimistic, so I've made some smaller goals throughout the week that involves me talking to some people at college, stuff like that. I won't try to push myself too hard because I have work and school the same day back to back and so I usually just want to get home and relax, which I typically do. It's not so much of going out of my way to go somewhere but rather taking the opportunities around my school, during breaks to interact, and the days I have off to at least keep me proactive about things. I think I need to take some pressure off myself because it's not like I have much time to socialize being that my classes are lectures and work is just kind of iffy, so I just want to be able to "keep a polished machine", if you will - that is, my head (lol). For once, it may be that I'm expecting too much out of myself for the time being and thinking I should be somewhere when I'm clearly exhausted may hurt me if I'm not careful. Got to find that fine line I suppose...
strive, crash, try again my friend...
I've been to bars by myself literally hundreds of times. Without that, I'd never had much of a social life at all. And by social life, I do mean women.
After all, a bar is where people go to use alcohol to break down social inhibitions. So it's the ideal place, though society is cracking down.
I (almost) always went alone. I've been to small bars where almost everybody knew each other, so I had to break into groups. Big nightclubs. Motorcycle bars. Strange bars where you walk in, don't fit in at all with the people there - so have one beer and leave.
Let's face it, if you want to leave with a girl, you have to be alone when you go in.
Want some tips?
I've been to bars by myself literally hundreds of times. Without that, I'd never had much of a social life at all. And by social life, I do mean women.
After all, a bar is where people go to use alcohol to break down social inhibitions. So it's the ideal place, though society is cracking down.
I (almost) always went alone. I've been to small bars where almost everybody knew each other, so I had to break into groups. Big nightclubs. Motorcycle bars. Strange bars where you walk in, don't fit in at all with the people there - so have one beer and leave.
Let's face it, if you want to leave with a girl, you have to be alone when you go in.
Want some tips?
It's nice to hear of someone who feels they have learned something from the same experience. I know what I'm going through is worth doing. I'd love to hear more about your experiences and/or what you've learned...
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