Social Anxiety Support Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
It was already conveniently written down :) so I just copied these paragraphs:
Code:
The Venus Project presents a vision not of what the future will be,
but what it can be if we apply what we already know in order to achieve a
sustainable new world civilization. It calls for a straightforward redesign of
our culture in which the age-old problems of war, poverty, hunger, debt,
and unnecessary human suffering are viewed not only as avoidable, but as
totally unacceptable. Anything less will result in a continuation of the same
catalog of problems found in today’s world.

The Venus Project presents an alternative vision for a sustainable world
civilization unlike any political, economic or social system that has gone
before. It envisions a time in the near future when money, politics, self
and national-interest have been phased out. Although this vision may
seem idealistic, it is based upon years of study and experimental research.
It spans the gambit from education, transportation, clean sources of energy
to total city systems.

Many people believe what is needed is a higher sense of ethical standards
and the enactment of international laws and treaties to assure a sustainable
global society. Even if the most ethical people in the world were elected to
political office, without sufficient resources we would still have many of the
same problems we have today. As long as a few nations control most of the
world’s resources and profit is the bottom line, the same cycle of events will
prevail.

As global challenges and scientific information proliferate, nations and people
face common threats that transcend national boundaries. Overpopulation,
energy shortages, global warming, environmental pollution, water scarcity,
economic catastrophe, the spread of uncontrollable disease, and the
technological displacement of people by machines threaten each of us.
Although many people are dedicated to alleviating those conditions, our
social and environmental problems will remain insurmountable as long as a
few powerful nations and financial interests maintain control of and consume
most of the world’s resources and the monetary system prevails.

If we really wish to put an end to our ongoing international and social
problems, we must declare Earth and all of its resources the common
heritage of all of the world’s people.

Earth is abundant and has plentiful resources. Our practice of rationing
resources through monetary control is no longer relevant and is
counter-productive to our survival. Today we have highly advanced
technologies, but our social and economic system has not kept up with our
technological capabilities. We could easily create a world of abundance for
all, free of servitude and debt based on the carrying capacity of Earth
resources. With the intelligent and humane application of science and
technology, the people of the earth can guide and shape the future
together while protecting the environment. We don’t have enough money to
accomplish these ends but we do have more than enough resources. This is
why we advocate a Resource-Based Economy.

What is a Resource-Based Economy?
To transcend these limitations, The Venus Project proposes we work toward
a worldwide, resource-based economy, in which the planetary resources are
held as the common heritage of all the earth's inhabitants. The current
practice of rationing resources through monetary methods is irrelevant,
counter-productive, and falls far short of meeting humanity’s needs.

Simply stated, a resource-based economy utilizes existing resources - rather
than money - to provide an equitable method of distribution in the most
humane and efficient manner. It is a system in which all goods and services
are available to everyone without the use of money, credits, barter, or any
other form of debt or servitude.

To better understand a resource-based economy, consider this. If all the
money in the world disappeared overnight, as long as topsoil, factories,
personnel and other resources were left intact, we could build anything we
needed to fulfill most human needs. It is not money that people require, but
rather free access to most of their needs without worrying about financial
security or having to appeal to a government bureaucracy. In a
resource-based economy of abundance, money will become irrelevant.

We have arrived at a time when new innovations in science and technology
can easily provide abundance to all of the world’s people. It is no longer
necessary to perpetuate the conscious withdrawal of efficiency by planned
obsolescence, perpetuated by our old and outworn profit system. If we are
genuinely concerned about the environment and our fellow human beings, if
we really want to end territorial disputes, war, crime, poverty and hunger,
we must consciously reconsider the social processes that led us to a world
where these factors are common. Like it or not, it is our social processes –
political practices, belief systems, profit-based economy, our culture-driven
behavioral norms – that lead to and support hunger, war, disease and
environmental damage.

The aim of this new social design is to encourage an incentive system no
longer directed toward the shallow and self-centered goals of wealth,
property, and power. These new incentives would encourage people toward
self-fulfillment and creativity, both materially and spiritually.
What do you think? Both about my question in the title and the Venus Project.
Could this actually work, or is it simply unsuitable for us humans?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
784 Posts
This reminds me of a more fringe version of Technocracy, which was one of many social movements that got off the ground in the 1920's, then died after World War II.

The idea is that we would scientifically evaluate the energy cost of goods and services, evaluate the real energy available to be extracted by the nation, then allocate energy credits to all citizens equally. There would still be a market element, as people could make choices on how to spend their credits. I'm not sure how they proposed to handle large scale industry. I suppose individuals could "invest" their credits in banks and equities, as long as the real energy supply was increasing.

There are still a few websites around today that promote the idea.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,147 Posts
No. People are too selfish. It will always be something like money or credit even if it technically isn't exactly like it is now.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,608 Posts
What do you want to replace it with, bartering items?
 

·
···---···
Joined
·
3,375 Posts
I don't agree at all that if we just got rid of money our problems would disappear. The alternative is barter which is far worse, more inconvenient and more susceptible to coercion and unfairness. If you are an apple farmer in a world without money, you can only trade your apples to get things. If you have a drought one year, you're screwed because apples can't be stored for long. Money is what allows a farmer to save when they have a surplus and use that money to buy food, clothes, etc when they have a drought. And this is just one of many ways money can be useful.

Money is a tool and like all tools, can useful or abused. Blaming money for our problems is like when people blame computers or hammers or homes for our problems. It conveniently avoids taking responsibility for our actions while finding some 'evil' to blame our woes on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,134 Posts
We would have to go back to living like the Native Americans lived (and in the same numbers as well).

The only other way I see it happening is if individuals acquire enough quality stuff (and renewable energy) that they wouldn't need anything else. I mean try to eliminate 95% of your expenses, but keep a similar quality of life. But you will have to do a lot of work upfront to build things that will last 500-1000 years. These things can get passed down from one generation to the next.

The problem with this is that we would have to come up with something for millions of unemployed people to do, which is why it hasn't taken off. And that certain people like having others make money for them.

But, it is possible. I use Linux (freelance programmers), have a hacked wifi router that could be programmed to setup a mesh network, grow some food (not even close to enough), use renewable energy, am building a long-lasting durable truck, and have made a lot of my own furniture. (Although I did get help from the Amish on two items).

Actually the Amish are another example of a community that makes what it needs, but they aren't technological at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,134 Posts
robots could do all the work...then everything could be free :sus
I think we are getting to a point where robots/AI will be able to do most jobs. We are seeing that today I think. We have become so efficient, that we don't need people to work. Wait until there are no fast food workers because robots take your money and make your food. Big stores will only have one or two checkout workers because the self-scan computer works just as good. Lawns are mowed by robotic lawnmowers. And there are a whole bunch of other jobs that could be eliminated.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
397 Posts
This is exactly why the government tries to cover up the truth concerning extraterrestrials and UFOs. I suspect that most UFOs are built by beings not of this world who embrace a free economic system. Most of their tech probably runs on free/clean energy. Humans could never sustain themselves on such a system because they lack emotional intelligence and are too attached to their egos. The government knows this so they keep everyone ignorant in order to sustain the system.

I support the current system because without it humans would kill themselves. Humans needs an economy to survive. The idea of total freedom has been bred out of their nature.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
38,431 Posts
That's called communism. It was invented centuries ago.
That's what I was thinking.

Seems their "higher" ethical system doesn't include property rights.

...self and national-interest have been phased out.
Also assumes a fundamental change in human nature, which isn't going to happen. Is there a reason most of the evening news covers what happens in the US and overseas stuff that effects the US? People are mainly interested in their own lives and their own nation. If this wasn't true we'd be watching news about crime in China just as much as we watch news events in our own city.
 

·
Hot Garbage Stew
Joined
·
1,473 Posts
I've always wondered, what jackass thought it would be a good idea to make it out of paper? Sure it's light and easy to store but could it be more destructible? It burns, rips, gets ruined by many liquids, CAN BLOW AWAY IN THE DAMN WIND, gets crinkled and frail, and I suppose little kids might draw on it? A question I've always had....:wtf
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
449 Posts
"The aim of this new social design is to encourage an incentive system no
longer directed toward the shallow and self-centered goals of wealth,
property, and power. These new incentives would encourage people toward
self-fulfillment and creativity, both materially and spiritually."

What? who is the moron who wrote that? Somebody has to be in charge. You cant change that. Somebody has to have the power, and everybody wants it. Those who get it, are not going to relinquish it and will try to maintain and increase it in anyway possible. History shows this time and again. And those shallow incentives have given us what we have today. The system isnt perfect, but damn it works.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
38,431 Posts
I think we are getting to a point where robots/AI will be able to do most jobs. We are seeing that today I think. We have become so efficient, that we don't need people to work. Wait until there are no fast food workers because robots take your money and make your food. Big stores will only have one or two checkout workers because the self-scan computer works just as good. Lawns are mowed by robotic lawnmowers. And there are a whole bunch of other jobs that could be eliminated.
Isn't a human going to be needed to program, run & fix the computers? Or are we going to have robots that are smart enough to act as repair-bots and computer programmers? Are you suggesting some brave new world like in the Terminator series where machines become self-aware?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
38,431 Posts
I've always wondered, what jackass thought it would be a good idea to make it out of paper? Sure it's light and easy to store but could it be more destructible? It burns, rips, gets ruined by many liquids, CAN BLOW AWAY IN THE DAMN WIND, gets crinkled and frail, and I suppose little kids might draw on it? A question I've always had....:wtf
Money is made out of a very durable cotton-based paper. If you've every left a dollar bill in your jeans and washed it you know that it can very easily survive the washer & dryer showing minimal harm for the wear, while a grocery list on regular paper is dead after that abuse. The government even has a series of stress tests that paper currency must pass, simulating most of the bad things that might happen to it.

The alternative to paper would be coins, which don't go over well with the general public. Several years ago the US Mint had a huge advertising campaign to replace dollar bills with that $1 golden-colored coin with the Native American girl on it (I'm not even going to try to spell her name). I've seen about 6 such golden dollar coins, only because my brother got some years ago and I'm sure they've joined his coin collection which is the same place you'll find every other golden dollar coin that has become a collectible and is never found in circulation.

It does burn, but then home fires don't happen all that often and most people have the vast bulk of their money in a bank or investments, not sitting at home. You can get a safe to help protect your currency from fire if you need to store large amounts of cash at home. Fire-resistant lock boxes go for as little as $20 and even that would provide enough room to store tens of thousands of dollars.

As for your idea of little kids drawing on it, it's still valid even if that happens. Some big kids mark their currency as well -- which as far as I can tell is legal as long as it's not done with the intent to change the apparent value of the bill.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,608 Posts
I've always wondered, what jackass thought it would be a good idea to make it out of paper? Sure it's light and easy to store but could it be more destructible? It burns, rips, gets ruined by many liquids, CAN BLOW AWAY IN THE DAMN WIND, gets crinkled and frail, and I suppose little kids might draw on it? A question I've always had....:wtf
You want to carry around 50$ in coins? Even with dollar coins that would be way heavy.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top