Social Anxiety Support Forum banner
1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Sorry. I'm feel uncomfortable trusting anything if I'm the one reading up on it.

Yea, so.. I've narrowed down ECT risks I'd actually mind to just this. I don't mind memory loss, or any temporary cognitive side-effects or even permanent deficit in my ability to retain retrograde memories. I just REALLY don't want to have a PERMANENT deficit in my ability to retain SHORT-TERM memories.

Does that even happen? Is there anything written on how frequent it can occur? Anything helps
 

·
Down the rabbit hole
Joined
·
4,499 Posts
Just read in my book from Prof Stahl that: "memory loss and social stigma are the primary problems associeted with ECT"... There are STRIKING regional and national differences across the world in the frequenscy of ECT use.

Such a Anticlimax to see him write that. Now the book is about Psychopharmacology. But still since he mention it he should adress it, and maybe give his opinion...

But yeah you don't want to be like the guy from the movie MEMENTO with memory problems.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0209144/?ref_=nv_sr_1

Ive been thinking that crank the voltage up and maybe you wake up and is another person, That doesn't have psych dissorders...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So, they don't happen often? I don't know how to interpret that.

I don't mind memory loss, and I definitely don't mind "social stigma". At this point, if publicly setting babies on fire were a for sure for sure way to rid myself of depression and anxiety, I'd have a lighter in hand in nothing flat. I can't imagine why anyone who still has something to lose from something as small as social stigma would opt for ECT
 

·
bipolar
Joined
·
17,195 Posts
Retrograde amnesia with electroconvulsive therapy: Characteristics and implications.
Weiner, Richard D.View Profile. Archives of General Psychiatry57.6 (Jun 2000): 591-592.
Turn on hit highlighting for speaking browsers
Hide highlightingShow duplicate items from other databases
Abstract (summary)
Translate Abstract
Comments on an article by S. H. Lisanby et al (see record 2000-15815-007) regarding effects of electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) on short- and long-term memory for personal vs public events. The current author maintains that 2 types of retrograde amnesia may occur with ECT which differ on the extent of personal reference. He argues that for the most part, this distinction follows the episodic vs semantic memory dichotomy, but these relationships are most likely more complex. Studies are sited that found, in contrast to earlier work, impersonal memories seemed to be affected more than autobiographic memories both immediately and 2 mos after a course of bilateral ECT. As opposed to electrode placement effects, no relationship was found between retrograde amnesia and stimulus dose, at least within this study's range. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2013 APA, all rights reserved)

Indexing (details)
Cite
Subject Autobiographical Memory (major);
Electroconvulsive Shock Therapy (major);
Major Depression (major);
Memory (major);
Side Effects (Treatment) (major);
Long Term Memory;
Short Term Memory
Classification 3350: Specialized Interventions
Age Adulthood (18 yrs & older); Middle Age (40-64 yrs)
Population Human; Male; Female; Inpatient
Location US
Identifier (keyword) electroconvulsive therapy, short- & long-term memory for autobiographic vs public events, patients with depression (mean age 53.0 yrs), commentary
Title Retrograde amnesia with electroconvulsive therapy: Characteristics and implications.
Author Weiner, Richard D. 1

1 Duke U, Medical Ctr, Dept of Psychiatry & Behavioral Sciences, Durham, NC, US
Publication title Archives of General Psychiatry
Volume 57
Issue 6
Pages 591-592
Publication date Jun 2000
Format covered Print
Publisher American Medical Assn (, US)
Other publication title A.M.A. Archives of General Psychiatry, JAMA Psychiatry
ISSN 0003-990X
eISSN 1538-3636
Peer reviewed Yes
Language English
Document type Journal, Peer Reviewed Journal, Comment/reply
DOI
http://dx.doi.org.ezproxy.lib.rmit.edu.au/10.1001/archpsyc.57.6.591
Release date
14 Jun 2000 (PsycINFO)
Correction date
21 Jan 2013 (PsycINFO)
Accession number 2000-15815-008
PubMed ID 10839337
ProQuest document ID 619535488
Document URL http://search.proquest.com.ezproxy.lib.rmit.edu.au/docview/619535488?accountid=13552
Database PsycINFO
 

·
bipolar
Joined
·
17,195 Posts
The above article seems is more current - here's another one from 1981.

Retrograde amnesia and bilateral electroconvulsive therapy: Long-term follow-up.
Squire, Larry R.View Profile; Slater, Pamela C.; Miller, Patricia L.View Profile. Archives of General Psychiatry38.1(Jan 1981): 89-95.
Turn on hit highlighting for speaking browsers
Hide highlightingShow duplicate items from other databases
Abstract (summary)
Translate Abstract
Assessed memory for past events in 43 patients who had been prescribed bilateral ECT for relief of depressive illness. Four memory tests of personal or public events were administered before ECT, shortly after the 5th treatment, 1 wk after completion of treatment, and about 7 mo later. Results indicate that ECT initially disrupted recall of events that occurred many years previously, but recovery of these memories was virtually complete by 7 mo after treatment. It was also clear that persisting memory loss for information acquired only a few days before treatment could occur. For information acquired 1-2 yrs prior to treatment, recovery was substantial, but results suggest that some memory problems might persist for events that occurred during this time period. (30 ref) (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2013 APA, all rights reserved)

Indexing (details)
Cite
Subject Amnesia (major);
Depression (Emotion) (major);
Electroconvulsive Shock Therapy (major);
Long Term Memory (major);
Posttreatment Followup (major)
Classification 3350: Specialized Interventions
Population Human
Identifier (keyword) bilateral ECT, memory for past events, depressed patients, 7-mo followup
Title Retrograde amnesia and bilateral electroconvulsive therapy: Long-term follow-up.
Author Squire, Larry R. 1 ; Slater, Pamela C.; Miller, Patricia L.

1 VA Medical Ctr, San Diego, CA
Publication title Archives of General Psychiatry
Volume 38
Issue 1
Pages 89-95
Publication date Jan 1981
Format covered Print
Publisher American Medical Assn (, US)
Other publication title A.M.A. Archives of General Psychiatry, JAMA Psychiatry
ISSN 0003-990X
eISSN 1538-3636
Peer reviewed Yes
Language English
Document type Journal, Journal Article, Peer Reviewed Journal
DOI
http://dx.doi.org.ezproxy.lib.rmit.edu.au/10.1001/archpsyc.1981.01780260091010
Release date
01 Jul 1981 (PsycINFO)
Correction date
21 Jan 2013 (PsycINFO)
Accession number 1981-21675-001
PubMed ID 7458573
ProQuest document ID 616526802
Document URL http://search.proquest.com.ezproxy.lib.rmit.edu.au/docview/616526802?accountid=13552
Database PsycINFO
Tags
- this link will open in a new window About tags|Go to My Tags
Be the first to add a shared tag to this document.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Okay, so long-term memories that you've had longer and long-term memories that are autobiographical tend to stay, or come back at least after a while post-ECT? That's cool and all, but I'm just not concerned with that.

I don't mind if trying ECT has me forget my name, and how old I am, and everyone I know. The only thing I care to retain is my capacity for short-term (around 30-seconds, depending on the individual) memory, because that's working memory, and what I use primarily in conversations. If I lose that, I'll be left socially impaired, even if I do achieve remission
 

·
bipolar
Joined
·
17,195 Posts
What is it you're hoping to achieve here? How old are you? Have you talked about this with a psychiatrist? What else have you tried?

I have seen many people in hospitals have ECT but it's usually for very deep depression that's resistent to any other form of treatment.
 

·
Down the rabbit hole
Joined
·
4,499 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
What is it you're hoping to achieve here? How old are you? Have you talked about this with a psychiatrist? What else have you tried?

I have seen many people in hospitals have ECT but it's usually for very deep depression that's resistent to any other form of treatment.
Q1: Hopefully remission without permanently impairing my cognition in terms of ability.

Q2: 17. Onset since I was 13. It's hardly relevant when you consider the symptoms I have

Q3: No, but I do have in contact a psychiatrist who's willing to have me undergo ECT, but I'm asking this to decide if I want to. If whatever cognitive aspects I care to retain are at serious risk of permanent damage, then I might wanna try a few other things first.

Q4: I've tried dozens of meds and therapies, and have only responded - although, in very brief intermittent periods - to Nardil and Parnate.

Yea. I'm a refractory case. I'm also trying to justify ECT in my head as much as possible just so I can go through with it and maybe get better already. I don't even care about permanent brain damage at this point, save for the one aspect (short-term memory) that this thread is based on
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·

·
bipolar
Joined
·
17,195 Posts
This guy had a lot of ECT to deal with severe symptoms of bipolar disorder. He jokingly calls himself Electroboy - funny. You might like to check out his page.

http://www.electroboy.com/

He talks to Stephen Fry briefly in this video on bipolar - he seems very intelligent and articulate. he's at 21:40. Good luck.

 

·
Down the rabbit hole
Joined
·
4,499 Posts
at 25min you can se he gets ECT and then the seizure of it...
Its not 1975 and "one flew over the Cuckoo's nest"

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
This guy had a lot of ECT to deal with severe symptoms of bipolar disorder. He jokingly calls himself Electroboy - funny. You might like to check out his page.

http://www.electroboy.com/

He talks to Stephen Fry briefly in this video on bipolar - he seems very intelligent and articulate. he's at 21:40. Good luck.

Thanks. I did something sort of similar. Looked up all the known comedians who'd undergone ECT. Not a long list..

There's also the problem of there being no way to compare these people to how they were pre-ECT, 'cause no one bothered to pay attention to it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Just here if any of you come across an answer to the original question..
 

·
Down the rabbit hole
Joined
·
4,499 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Sorry. I'm feel uncomfortable trusting anything if I'm the one reading up on it.

Yea, so.. I've narrowed down ECT risks I'd actually mind to just this. I don't mind memory loss, or any temporary cognitive side-effects or even permanent deficit in my ability to retain retrograde memories. I just REALLY don't want to have a PERMANENT deficit in my ability to retain SHORT-TERM memories.

Does that even happen? Is there anything written on how frequent it can occur? Anything helps
I went through 7 sessions of ECT. So I can tell you this from experience:

It takes around 1 year for your short-term memory to recover completely and about 2 years to recover from any deficit in long-term memory formation. As for cognitive side effects, you will feel foggy and hazy for sure but it comes and goes. After 2 years you won't notice any fog at all and you will be sharp all the time.

What you probably won't recover from through is your past memories. I used to have a best friend whom I went out with for 6 years on a daily basis who died in an accident shortly after my ECT sessions and I didn't mourn him because I can't remember almost anything about him. I even forgot the faces and names of my past girlfriends.

I lost most memories of my childhood, teenage years, and early adulthood. They were wiped clean. I couldn't remember much about my grandmother who also passed away shortly after my late best friend. I didn't mourn her either because I can't remember almost anything about her either. I only know we were very, very close. :|

If you cherish the memories of your past, write about them before getting any ECT sessions carried out because, in my case, they never returned. Not even after 2 years.
 

·
Down the rabbit hole
Joined
·
4,499 Posts
^interessting, for me a have good memories before i got depressed... For me i kind of like them, before i got depressed...But i been that for over a decade, but to take away my childhood, early teens, when i was "king of the world" would somewhat be contradicted... the 10+years of crap i wouldn't mind but being happy as a youngster is something a would like to keep...

Im gonna stick to "chemical antidepressants" though...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
I'd like to emphasize that ECT should ONLY be a last-resort thing for deep treatment-resistant Major Depressive Disorder. My depression was very severe that all medications failed to reduce it (All typical & atypical antipsychotics, SSRIs, SNRIs, TCAs, TeCA/NaSSA, Stablon, Wellbutrin, Methylphenide and so many other combinations, you name it, as well as RCs).

The only medication that somewhat helped was Olanzapine. This one is different. It took away my depression but also took away my feelings (blunted affect) as well as my pleasure response and libido (anhedonia). It also made me gain weight extremely rapidly. I went from 60 kg to 82 kg within a month. I'm not exaggerating.

I attempted suicide 4 times and got locked up in a mental hospital for 2 weeks. I received ECT which made me feel really great but I needed extra sessions. The benefits were short-lived.

The only thing that erased my depression permanently is, believe it or not, 3 sessions of a certain psychedelic but I'm not allowed to discuss it here since it's against the forum's rules.

I've been depression-free for 4 months and counting.
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Top