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Penguin
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just finished A Dance With Dragons :)

Non-Spoilery bit:

I think this is actually my third favourite book in the series, though up until pretty close to the end when it began to build up to the epic climax I was going to say 4th, but it certainly gets better as it goes along. In my opinion, which is correct, the order of bestness is 3rd>1st>5th>2nd>4th.

Massively Spoilery bit:

Ok, so for those who have finished all 5 of the currently published books, what's your take on these events:

1. The apparent murder of Jon Snow

I think that if Bowen Marsh and his supporters were going to go all Brutus on Jon, they should of done it before he let all those wildlings through the wall. Doing it now has probably ended the Nights Watch. While Alliser Thorne's lot will likely throw in with Marsh's assasins, along with any erstwhile Janos Slynt supporters and many of those in the watch who despised Jon for admitting the wildlings or seeming to pander to Stannis...nevermind Jon's friends and supporters, there are plenty in the watch who, while disapproving of Jon's actions, will want the assasins executed for treason. Tormund's wildlings will presumably throw in with these, along with many of the other thousands of wildlings now south of the wall. The Queen's men too, should logically side with any pro-Jon Night's Watch people, much as they hated him, seeing as how the anti-Jon faction will consist of those who opposed admitting all the wildlings, which was Stannis' idea. I see only civil war and destruction for the Nights Watch here, which will make it easy for The Others to attack the realm, seeing as how nobody south of The Wall takes the threat seriously.

2. The Capture of Danerys by Khal Jhaqo

Will Drogon slaughter his Kalhasar? Or will he Capture Danerys? I imagine that either way the siege at Meereen is going to be broken, but with the dragons lost is there any hope of a Targaryen comeback in Westeros?

3. Jon Connington's invasion with The Golden Company.

So he has a Targaryen prince and a **** lot of sellswords and has won every battle so far. Will he take Storms End? Certainly he seems to have a plan, but it may go awry what with his headstrong young charge getting in the way. Even if he does, does he have a chance at taking the throne? I imagine Doran Martell, cautious as he is, will throw Dorne's strength behind Connington and his Targaryen, but if Tyrells and Lanisters unite, that may not be enough. Of course, if that guy from the Iron Bank is still alive, or the bank finds out he's dead, the Bravosi might send in a load of sellswords to aid Connington's invasion and then it will be a cakewalk.

4. Wtf is Euron even doing

Yeah, so like, he has a massive fleet and is in an ideal position to attack Westeros, instead he sends his fleet off toward Slaver's Bay via Valyria, relying entirely on the efficacy of a magic horn that kills anyone who uses it to steal Danerys' dragons...but not until after attacking the Shield islands and reaving down the coast and up toward Old Town. This is dumb. Surely the Redwyne fleet will rout his ships near Westeros, and the others will be trapped between winter storms and mercenary ships in the employ of the Yunkaii?

5. The startling comeback of Varys.

And his subsequent Crossbow'ing of Kevan Lannister and Pycelle. What is all this talk of Aegon? Who are his child-assasins? He seems to be trying to forment discord between houses Tyrell, Martell, and Lannister to the end of enabling a Targaryen comeback...but why?

Discuss.
 

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1. I don't think he's dead.

2. The Kahlasar will probably follow her.

3. He'll probably get absorbed into one of the other powers. That whole new Targaryen prince thing is really weird.

4. I don't know but I'm betting that horn is imprortant. Maybe it's really the Horn of Winter.

5. He seems to really believe a Targaryen will be best for the realm so he wants to keep anyone else from gaining too much power.

6. Everybody needs to stop dicking around and store food. Winter is coming!
 

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Allons-y!
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Jon can't be dead! He's the third dragon's head!
 

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Penguin
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
4. I don't know but I'm betting that horn is imprortant. Maybe it's really the Horn of Winter.
Don't think it is, the Horn of Winter is supposed to be North of the Wall, Euron has never been there, he claims he got it from Valyria, and the red priest Victarion catches tells him the Valyrian dragonlords used such horns to controll their beasts, so we must assume it's an actual dragon horn I guess, but still, spreading your fleet halfway across the world on this basis seems stupid. I would of attacked Meereen before returning to Westeros, grabbed Dany's dragons and showed up riding one to Aeron Greyjoy's kingsmoot.

Jon can't be dead! He's the third dragon's head!
I don't think he is, the third head of the dragon is clearly Hodor. Haha only joking its obviously Wyman Manderly :b

Nah Jon has no Targaryen blood, I'd say the other Dragons heads are going to be Targaryens - who knows which ones, though, seeing as how they keep popping up all over the place, despite supposedly having been wiped out in Robert's rebellion.

Also, is Stannis really dead or is Bolton lying? I mean, that guy from the Iron Bank managed to reach him, you'd think they'd of reached some agreement, Stannis would pull back to Deepwood and wait for the sellswords to come pouring in. Perhaps he has and Bolton just wants to capture Melisandre and Selyse to use them as leverage?
 

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Allons-y!
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So you don't agree with the theories of Jon's true parentage?

I don't think Stannis is dead. It would doom the North completely.
 

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Penguin
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
So you don't agree with the theories of Jon's true parentage?

I don't think Stannis is dead. It would doom the North completely.
Jon's true parentage is explained to be the mother of a fisherman's wife who helped Eddard Stark in Robert's rebellion - this is in book 5 I think, from Davos' Seaworth's perspective while he is being held by Wyman Manderly as I recall.

I'm really unsure about the whole Stannis death thing...Martin has a habbit of randomly throwing everything into chaos, like with the sudden murder of Rob and Catelyn Stark, or the slaughter of the Night's Watch at the Fist.
 

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Allons-y!
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Yes, yes but the theory...

Some evidence points to the possibility that Jon's real parents are Lyanna and Rhaegar. We know that Ned found Lyanna in a bed of blood and made him promise her something. This bed of blood could be from childbirth and the promise could be to never reveal the truth about Jon. There are a few other clues, I think, but this is what I mainly remember.
 

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Penguin
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes, yes but the theory...

Some evidence points to the possibility that Jon's real parents are Lyanna and Rhaegar. We know that Ned found Lyanna in a bed of blood and made him promise her something. This bed of blood could be from childbirth and the promise could be to never reveal the truth about Jon. There are a few other clues, I think, but this is what I mainly remember.
Well that could work, since we know Rhaegar was in love with Lyanna Stark - so he'd still be a Stark b*stard (hate how that is blocked but 'piss' isn't), and the reason Eddard refused to reveal the mother was to make everyone think he was the father, thereby preventing the Baratheons killing him. This would also explain Eddard's opposition to Robert's policy of assasinating Targaryen children in the first book. Though we should remember that it is repeatedly stated that Jon resembles Eddard more than his children with Catelyn, so I'm not sure about this.

Still, he's got 4 knives stuck in him and is surrounded by enemies, I mean, Martin might pull another one of his cheap tricks (e.g. zombie Catelyn; Bran n Rickon not being dead etc) to get him out of this, but I'd rather he didn't.
 

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Allons-y!
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Yeah, I don't want cheap tricks either, but he's one of my favorite characters so I'd really like it if he lived :p
I really do like the theory that he's a secret Targaryen though. The Stark genes could be stronger than the Targaryen genes. Since Ned is the most honorable human alive ever it would make more sense that he'd lie to protect his sister's honor than that he'd actually cheat on his new bride. Jon doesn't have to be legitimate since it's most likely going to be Aegon and Dany that will take the throne, but there is the need of the third head and I don't know who else could fit it.
 
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