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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 10:15 AM
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I actually don't understand what the issue is with continuing to wear non-vegan clothes that were purchased before you went vegan. I understand not wanting to, but I don't think it is harmful to? Other than possibly influencing other people.
yeah I mean a lot of things dont really matter. the vegan definition is separate from the "imperfect" vegan practice. because the definition is kind of random. no need to be confined by it. and if it confuses people, you can tell them why since you know why, rather than telling them you're a slave to the vegan dogma lol. some vegans will kill a mosquito because it annoys them. vegans are pretty well known for policing things but that's dumb. pretty much everyone lives where a destroyed native habitat once was and they pay money for it. they buy consumer goods which also destroy habitat etc etc. for that reason nitpicking seems like a bad idea. support a reduction in all that and in meat eating. although I can see why some people are like that, because of the whole empathy deal. which yeah is sad. try not to hurt animals.

and also it's because you're too sexy so if you wear leather you make it look sexy which makes others want to wear the same

and what kevin said, it's not ideologically pure if you're trying to be pure.

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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-05-2020, 07:32 PM
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Being vegan is more than food, its not supporting any animal products. Wearing something you stand against is being hypocritical. Its like me wearing a satanic shirt just because I owned it before coming to Christ. Huge no no .

Everyone perhaps can't afford new hoodies, and vegan clothes are super expensive


The best tip I would give to eating vegan is that it's way easier then you might fear, iron and calcium is very important, eat lots of tofu

You think you're fooling anyone with that topknot?
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-06-2020, 03:22 AM
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hm its not simple at all, yu can get malnutrishoned so you gotta buy b vitamins and d vitamin

also vegan food is expensive as hell

but i hope vegan is our future becoz i wana save our pets its just not simple af
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-06-2020, 03:37 AM
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I live in Glasgow, Scotland, and so I'm very lucky to have a lot of vegan options around about me.

Something I wish I knew when I started out: it becomes very easy. Before I adopted a vegan diet (which I did for ethical reasons), I feared that it would be too difficult and I'd eventually resign myself to the convenience of a diet that permits anything. But I have found things much easier than I could ever have imagined, and it gets easier and easier. I recognise my fortune in living in a city that allows me to eat out and buy a lot of different vegan products, but if you live in a big modern Western city, you're likely to have the same options available. The number of products open to vegans just keeps growing and growing; the meat and dairy substitutes are getting better and better. As the number of vegans around the world grows, hence the demand grows too, I can only see it getting better still. A lot of people think it will be extremely difficult, but they often surprise themselves. Now, I couldn't imagine going back the way.

With regards to nutrition, here's an often overlooked fact: people who eat meat and dairy often have poorly planned diets, and so lack certain things in their diet too. So nutrition is not a problem that belongs solely to those eating non-meat and dairy diets. No matter what your diet comprises of, you should plan things so that you get what you need. There will be a wealth of sources of information online. I'd recommend the same for those who aren't vegan: plan your diet.

Apart from the above, I'd say experiment a lot. I've found so many creative ways to bring vegetables I never used to eat into my diet. There's a lot of versatility to fruit and veg. Don't forget to enjoy the growing vegan junk food too, though. You shouldn't have to give up every pleasure. I've found so many amazing vegan burgers, kebabs, pizzas, cakes and desserts etc.

Going vegan has been an amazing journey for me. I hope you find things similarly easy and have a positive experience.
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-07-2020, 04:41 AM
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With regards to nutrition, here's an often overlooked fact: people who eat meat and dairy often have poorly planned diets, and so lack certain things in their diet too. So nutrition is not a problem that belongs solely to those eating non-meat and dairy diets. No matter what your diet comprises of, you should plan things so that you get what you need. There will be a wealth of sources of information online. I'd recommend the same for those who aren't vegan: plan your diet.
Sound advice. I find it hard to follow though: my nutrition is based on eating lots of healthy (i.e. not ultra-processed, cooked from scratch) food and occasionally 'deciding' that I need to take this or that supplement. Which serves me okay, I think, but is not ideal. When I went vegan once years ago, one of my teeth crumbled (connected or not, I cannot say). And I do hear from people whose health took a nosedive after going vegan. We all need to watch our diet but stricter diet = more potential for problems.

So the problem I'm wrestling with here is: how do you plan your diet? Without regular blood tests, it's incredibly hard to work out what nutrients you're running low on. Counting the amounts of iron/magnesium/etc. you're getting is difficult, time-consuming and a very imprecise science. I guess taking standard vegan supplements would be one way. But is that good enough?

These are largely rhetorical questions and just some of the things that worry me, I don't expect anyone to come up with solutions. But any ideas are very welcome.

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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2020, 06:50 PM
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i forgot to mention that finding vegan wine is a pain in the arse >_< also, some beers contain isinglass(derived from fish) so i have a 'clean' beers list. i think it's strange that alcohols are missing their ingredients labels, like what is the reason for this.
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-10-2020, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pechorin View Post
I live in Glasgow, Scotland, and so I'm very lucky to have a lot of vegan options around about me.

Something I wish I knew when I started out: it becomes very easy. Before I adopted a vegan diet (which I did for ethical reasons), I feared that it would be too difficult and I'd eventually resign myself to the convenience of a diet that permits anything. But I have found things much easier than I could ever have imagined, and it gets easier and easier. I recognise my fortune in living in a city that allows me to eat out and buy a lot of different vegan products, but if you live in a big modern Western city, you're likely to have the same options available. The number of products open to vegans just keeps growing and growing; the meat and dairy substitutes are getting better and better. As the number of vegans around the world grows, hence the demand grows too, I can only see it getting better still. A lot of people think it will be extremely difficult, but they often surprise themselves. Now, I couldn't imagine going back the way.

With regards to nutrition, here's an often overlooked fact: people who eat meat and dairy often have poorly planned diets, and so lack certain things in their diet too. So nutrition is not a problem that belongs solely to those eating non-meat and dairy diets. No matter what your diet comprises of, you should plan things so that you get what you need. There will be a wealth of sources of information online. I'd recommend the same for those who aren't vegan: plan your diet.

Apart from the above, I'd say experiment a lot. I've found so many creative ways to bring vegetables I never used to eat into my diet. There's a lot of versatility to fruit and veg. Don't forget to enjoy the growing vegan junk food too, though. You shouldn't have to give up every pleasure. I've found so many amazing vegan burgers, kebabs, pizzas, cakes and desserts etc.

Going vegan has been an amazing journey for me. I hope you find things similarly easy and have a positive experience.
how long have you been vegan? similar to rabid, I've also heard of very healthy vegans suddenly finding out that they're losing their teeth after 5 years.
thank you for the encouragement. yes, I'm also interested in hearing any and all tips you have about planning your meals.

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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-10-2020, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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i forgot to mention that finding vegan wine is a pain in the arse >_< also, some beers contain isinglass(derived from fish) so i have a 'clean' beers list. i think it's strange that alcohols are missing their ingredients labels, like what is the reason for this.
I had NO idea about any of this



bird
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-11-2020, 03:12 AM
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how long have you been vegan? similar to rabid, I've also heard of very healthy vegans suddenly finding out that they're losing their teeth after 5 years.
thank you for the encouragement. yes, I'm also interested in hearing any and all tips you have about planning your meals.
I have been a vegan for eight years. I done my research before making my decision. I understood the importance of planning my diet to make sure I don't lack essential nutrients (as I should have been doing anyway). I can confidently state that if you have a well-planned vegan diet, then you do not run the risk of losing your teeth (unless you eat a lot of things that are bad for them).

I've come across many scare stories in my time, and I always look to see where the evidence is for them. It's usually anecdotal. If you make sure you get enough of the things you need for good health, then you'll be fine.
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-12-2020, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
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I don't think my tongue is connected to my soul, because I certainly don't always crave what makes me feel better about myself. There are certainly times when I crave ready salted crisps, apple crumble with custard, samosas and beers : D

But I do understand the disgust thing! Only to me sometimes it has to work the other way round - stop eating something through sheer willpower ('come on, you're not a baby'), then wait a year or two, then the protective disgust kicks in.

So you can see why I'm thinking hard about the paradigm shift. It's nice when it all comes naturally, but if it doesn't, I have to put in the effort. I think it's easier for the 'eat to live' kind of people, because then all they need to consider is the nutritional value.

Maybe it's different where you are, but in the U.K. there are a lot of ultra-processed vegan foods. And, like you, I worry about all the dodgy ingredients. Alpro stuff has them, vegan 'meats' have them, so does vegan 'cream' and most 'ice creams'. That said, I'm not really interested in meat replacements, so that makes things somewhat easier (or harder?).

Got a favourite vegan recipe to share?
I don't follow Sam Harris or anything, but tonight I started clicking a bunch of interviews to see what scientist-philosophers say about veganism on YouTube, to try to hear better arguments than usual. First I found an interview posted 4 years ago where Sam Harris says there's no non-vegan ethical eating and that he's trying it out a bit, but that there is the danger of "akrasia" for him.
And then, in an interview 2 years ago, I heard him talk about how veganism is again good, but basically that he just can't do it because of akrasia.

People can intellectualize things very easily, and are worse than children at keeping to their values. Even people who are world-famous for talking about morals. You're totally right about it being about conditioning feelings of disgust, like a conscious effort to convert rationalizations to emotions (rationalizations that were made because of some initial, raw emotion, though...), where emotions are the only effective motivators. I unfortunately have to do that too. It is silly that what makes someone go vegan is a really strong emotional reaction to something they see, but they can't immediately apply that emotion to their own actions without first rationalizing that they have to. I have been having to do it a lot recently.
Right now, I'm eating eggs and trying to cut everything else out, so dairy and hidden ingredients I didn't watch for before. I'm sticking with eggs indefinitely because I'm still a really bad eater and like a lazy f**k, I haven't been doing the research I need to do in order to plan a long-term vegan diet (I'm going to throw in sheepishly that I've been buying them from a farm near me, which is still sh*t but better than the factories???). But I've got my work set out for a little while trying to keep up with this. A couple of days ago, I finished work and was immediately really hungry with no meal ready to eat. I started thinking about my favorite Neapolitan pizza and was really cranky and very close to placing an order. I phoned my boyfriend who has been supporting me in my endeavor to become more vegan, and he didn't even deign to talk about my craving, he just looked up a vegan restaurant 15 minutes from my house that I hadn't heard of before, and my dinner that night was delicious, made so much more delicious by the fight I'd won with myself. Having a friend that you're trying to go vegan with, I think, can make a world of a difference to someone who suffers from "akrasia" (I feel gross using this word because it almost feels like a pretentious/intellectual defense).

Something else that might be even less popular as a motivator is anger. Vegans are shamed for their anger a lot. Even vegans hate angry vegans. I think with my disgust should come anger, at everyone including myself. I think self-righteousness, in the benign sense of the word (like enjoying your own righteousness) is important in helping yourself become more right according to your values. Isn't "be less angry" considered inappropriate to use against historically oppressed minorities who are angry about their treatment? Like, if human babies were being slaughtered in factories, and someone was so angry about it that they actually told someone else who ate those babies, "You're wrong and need to stop allowing that", would that be "making non-baby eaters look bad"? I am even angry at myself, and it helps me...

Recipes I have are here and there... I've been curious for a couple of years to try a vegan egg recipe, but I haven't gotten around to it. I'd really love to share notes with someone on meal plans once I've done a bit of research on that.

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post #31 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-14-2020, 03:34 AM
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Right now, I'm eating eggs and trying to cut everything else out, so dairy and hidden ingredients I didn't watch for before. I'm sticking with eggs indefinitely because I'm still a really bad eater and like a lazy f**k, I haven't been doing the research I need to do in order to plan a long-term vegan diet (I'm going to throw in sheepishly that I've been buying them from a farm near me, which is still sh*t but better than the factories???). But I've got my work set out for a little while trying to keep up with this. A couple of days ago, I finished work and was immediately really hungry with no meal ready to eat. I started thinking about my favorite Neapolitan pizza and was really cranky and very close to placing an order. I phoned my boyfriend who has been supporting me in my endeavor to become more vegan, and he didn't even deign to talk about my craving, he just looked up a vegan restaurant 15 minutes from my house that I hadn't heard of before, and my dinner that night was delicious, made so much more delicious by the fight I'd won with myself. Having a friend that you're trying to go vegan with, I think, can make a world of a difference to someone who suffers from "akrasia" (I feel gross using this word because it almost feels like a pretentious/intellectual defense).

Something else that might be even less popular as a motivator is anger. Vegans are shamed for their anger a lot. Even vegans hate angry vegans. I think with my disgust should come anger, at everyone including myself. I think self-righteousness, in the benign sense of the word (like enjoying your own righteousness) is important in helping yourself become more right according to your values. Isn't "be less angry" considered inappropriate to use against historically oppressed minorities who are angry about their treatment? Like, if human babies were being slaughtered in factories, and someone was so angry about it that they actually told someone else who ate those babies, "You're wrong and need to stop allowing that", would that be "making non-baby eaters look bad"? I am even angry at myself, and it helps me...
I think the golden middle might be an occasional reprimand to self ('what are you, a baby?') without self-bashing (calling oneself names, etc.). There's willpower involved, just like there's in anything that's worth your time. It's just hard to begin with, because the skills and habits are not there...even moving on from vegetarianism, it feels like a real paradigm shift.

Since I last posted here, I've switched to an experimental stage where I'm avoiding most dairy/eggs (being a bit lax with 'hidden' ingredients). I couldn't find a better solution to the nutrition problem than to log what I eat, which is an ordeal, but I expect it will get easier once I settle into some kind of a routine. I'm not consuming enough B12, calcium, iron or protein, so might get a supplement until I work out the kinks in my diet. If I don't get my protein and iron up soon, I'm going to start feeling weak and unsatisfied, so it's important to the integrity of the diet as much as it is for health.

You make a compelling argument for the anger. I agree - if it's okay to be angry at other types of injustice in the world, it's definitely okay to be angry at our destructive eating habits. At the same time, I'm trying to ditch anger - all anger. Currently it's not doing me any favours, it's like an emotional black hole.

I'd be very much interested to hear how things work out for you further if you care to share.

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post #32 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-14-2020, 04:40 PM
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I find it easy as hell. Been vegan for just over a year now. Take a b12 supplement and eat the exact same way as before, just swap things for vegan options. For instance we had "chicken" burgers and fries for supper tonight. The chicken burgers taste exactly the same as real chicken ones, fries were just potatoes cut and cooked in the oven. Easy peasy, don't miss out on a thing.

Health wise I feel the same but trending towards healthier. Have lost 10 lbs not trying to.

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post #33 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-14-2020, 06:31 PM
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One of my weirder food choices back in the day was this canned meat alternative called Redi-Burger. It had a very different "not at all meaty" texture and flavor to it that I liked despite the fact that it didn't taste like anything I could really identify as "This tastes just like that". I just loved it and ate it every day. That was in the early 90s (I think) but you can still buy it now. I haven't bothered to hunt a few cans of it down (I will eventually). As far as meatless "burgers" go, Grillers Prime are not bad. They don't taste like meat at all but are good in their own way.

Edit - Those two might not be technically "vegan" because they probably contain animal stuff of some kind though. Again, I was never 100%
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post #34 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-14-2020, 08:35 PM
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Edit - Those two might not be technically "vegan" because they probably contain animal stuff of some kind though. Again, I was never 100%
I take that back. Apparently the Redi-Burger is 100% vegan (as are the vegetarian Big Franks made by the same company (I used to love those too)). I don't think Grillers are completely vegan though. But they're tasty.
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post #35 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-25-2020, 05:43 PM
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It's easy to do.It's about eating healthy.
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post #36 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-03-2020, 01:58 AM
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Indian lentil curry became my staple. Legumes in general plus potato is where I found calories and was satiated. Unless you're going fruitarian or raw vegan, it's pretty easy to transition. I was vegan for about 8 years.
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