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post #101 of 116 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 07:39 AM
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An interesting article I came across today.
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Dr Bright explained that by disabling the “default mode network” of the brain—that is, the neural network associated with a person’s typical way of thinking—psilocybin can provide people with “a completely different perspective on their situation” and zoom in on thoughts or ideas that we typically repress or pass over.
The problem with that is it can make you "zoom in" on negative thoughts or insecurities, which might be dangerous and cause the patient to freak out. I've seen people freak out on LSD, which is generally much more powerful than psilocybin mushrooms. I've never seen anyone freak out on mushrooms, but I'd imagine that it could happen.

I guess it all depends on the patient and whether or not they want to try it. If they're dying and want to, let them. But for people with psychiatric disorders, it's probably not a good idea. I did acid when I was in my 20s and not as far gone as I am now. And music was a lot better back then, also.

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post #102 of 116 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry for my late reply! Thanks for sharing.

It seems you have managed to get out of your own way quite a bit. That's really great! Would you say this is a cumulative effect of your psychedelic experiences? What you describe correlates with the theory of the activity in the default mode network being lowered when you are on psychedelics. Hyper activity in this network has been associated with anxiety, depression and obsessive-compulsive behaviour. In other words; psychedelics can help you become less rigid and more flexible in how you think, feel, act and relate to people and situations. Or, as you put it, you are better at letting go. I like the analogy of the snow covered hill a lot. It starts out pristine. When you ski down, you leave a trail. The next time you ski down, you have a chance to get into this trail and ski down this route. At a certain point one trail has become entrenched and it becomes almost impossible to go down the hill in any other way. Psychedelics cover the slope with a fresh layer of snow temporarily, so you have the opportunity to create new trails. The old one's won't disappear, but you have created alternatives. The challenge is to stay on the new trail as much as possible in daily life and to reinforce it.

I was referring to my aya experiences. The microdosing doesn't count as psychedelic experiences for me. It was rough, yeah. But I see them as challenging experiences, rather than negative incidents. A lot of my coping mechanisms were swept away and I've been in a difficult state for months. But when you consider that the coping mechanisms are a big part of the problem, this clears the way for change. The stuff the coping mechanisms had kept at bay, was in my consciousness most of the time now. Staying with it has been extremely hard at times and I'm pretty sure I would have ran from it if I could at some instances. That option didn't exist anymore though and I ultimately didn't wanted it to. That has actually been quite liberating. It has become much easier for me to stay present in difficult situations in daily life now. I do get the urge sometimes, but it seems to be less of a life or death situation. It's not as easy to get caught in a fight/flight mode now. I have options now in a given situation, where before, my survival response just took over. It seems to be what you're also saying and I'm happy for you that you've gained this flexibility from your experiences. Do you also meditate? I started doing this daily and it has helped me a great deal to deepen the "mindful" point of reference I got from the aya experiences. It's also a microdose in a way, because you disidentify from your ego and identify with your observer.

Coming back to reality hasn't been a very big challenge for me thus far. It takes a bit of time, and some quirky stuff happens in my mind now and then, but overall it's mainly an emotional challenge for me. If you struggle with reality, you might find some support at iceers. If I'm not mistaken, they provide some kind of free online service.

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post #103 of 116 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 01:52 PM
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The problem with that is it can make you "zoom in" on negative thoughts or insecurities, which might be dangerous and cause the patient to freak out. I've seen people freak out on LSD, which is generally much more powerful than psilocybin mushrooms. I've never seen anyone freak out on mushrooms, but I'd imagine that it could happen.

I guess it all depends on the patient and whether or not they want to try it. If they're dying and want to, let them. But for people with psychiatric disorders, it's probably not a good idea. I did acid when I was in my 20s and not as far gone as I am now. And music was a lot better back then, also.
Yeah, the bad trip is the reason I haven't gone down the psychedelic path so far but I'm interested in the possibility. I think the dosage would be very controlled in this situation. I guess the main point I was interested in is that people are open to the fact that there may be benefits. I've heard a lot about people using psilocybin at sub-therapeutic doses. You dont "trip" but it apparently takes the edge of the anxiety and depression.

I agree with you on the music
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post #104 of 116 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 01:51 AM Thread Starter
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Wauw, even in Australia! I remember an episode of adventures through the mind, recorded a few years back, with a guy from your country. He was complaining that everything was blocked due to irrational politics, even harm reduction. This research going to happen seems like a revolution in that light. What happened? It's too bad that the media resort to using the term "magic mushrooms", where "psilocybin" is the correct term to use. Sensationalism isn't helping science.

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You can't really compare treatment in a clinical setting with clandestine use of psychedelics. At the end of the article: “But if you look at the studies,” he says, “it has minimal… serious adverse effects… [and] it has great potential.” The latter is the reason for the current psychedelic renaissance. It's a tragedy that Nixon's moral panic resulted in a total, decades long, global ban of research into what can potentially benefit millions around the globe. Especially those in psychological distress. There's a mental health crisis going on and we collectively fail miserably to properly address it. Psychedelics are potentially a very important ally. It's about time to let science separate truth from fiction here once and for all. Sadly, most research has to be funded by donators because those substances can't be patented, which render them useless in the eyes of big pharma and politics is still under the influence of decades of fearmongering. Peter Thiel is backing research into the use of psilocybin for treatment resistant depression though. I'm very curious about the business model he has in mind for this. https://compasspathways.com/research-clinical-trials/

Several years ago magic mushrooms became illegal here because a tourist jumped out of a window under their influence. Off course the thousands of deaths and injuries due to the use of alcohol and tobacco every year are perfectly fine and normal. Or, more precisely, the public is being stimulated to leave tobacco alone and use alcohol in moderation but it's free to choose otherwise. The irony of it all is that psychedelics actually have great potential to save lives and promote health. I probably would not have been around anymore if it weren't for ayahauasca. I've been an extremely reluctant psychonaut because I don't take the combination of mental illness and these substances lightly and I don't think anyone should. These are very powerful and unpredicatable tools I'd rather only see in the hands of professionals. But I'm very grateful that I could get my hands on some psychedelics before it was too late. I'd rather have walked into a clinic and taken a known dose of a known substance and be guided by trained professionals before, during and after the experience. That possibility is likely to be there for people with treatment resistant PTSD in your country in two years. https://maps.org/participate/therapist-training-program

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post #105 of 116 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 02:32 AM
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@Shredder

Wauw, even in Australia! I remember an episode of adventures through the mind, recorded a few years back, with a guy from your country. He was complaining that everything was blocked due to irrational politics, even harm reduction. This research going to happen seems like a revolution in that light. What happened? It's too bad that the media resort to using the term "magic mushrooms", where "psilocybin" is the correct term to use. Sensationalism isn't helping science.


@Maslow

You can't really compare treatment in a clinical setting with clandestine use of psychedelics. At the end of the article: “But if you look at the studies,” he says, “it has minimal… serious adverse effects… [and] it has great potential.” The latter is the reason for the current psychedelic renaissance. It's a tragedy that Nixon's moral panic resulted in a total, decades long, global ban of research into what can potentially benefit millions around the globe. Especially those in psychological distress. There's a mental health crisis going on and we collectively fail miserably to properly address it. Psychedelics are potentially a very important ally. It's about time to let science separate truth from fiction here once and for all. Sadly, most research has to be funded by donators because those substances can't be patented, which render them useless in the eyes of big pharma and politics is still under the influence of decades of fearmongering. Peter Thiel is backing research into the use of psilocybin for treatment resistant depression though. I'm very curious about the business model he has in mind for this. https://compasspathways.com/research-clinical-trials/



Several years ago magic mushrooms became illegal here because a tourist jumped out of a window under their influence. Off course the thousands of deaths and injuries due to the use of alcohol and tobacco every year are perfectly fine and normal. Or, more precisely, the public is being stimulated to leave tobacco alone and use alcohol in moderation but it's free to choose otherwise. The irony of it all is that psychedelics actually have great potential to save lives and promote health. I probably would not have been around anymore if it weren't for ayahauasca. I've been an extremely reluctant psychonaut because I don't take the combination of mental illness and these substances lightly and I don't think anyone should. These are very powerful and unpredicatable tools I'd rather only see in the hands of professionals. But I'm very grateful that I could get my hands on some psychedelics before it was too late. I'd rather have walked into a clinic and taken a known dose of a known substance and be guided by trained professionals before, during and after the experience. That possibility is likely to be there for people with treatment resistant PTSD in your country in two years. https://maps.org/participate/therapist-training-program
That's great news. Results from certain types of therapies can be potentiated exponentially by doing it in a different state of mind.
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post #106 of 116 (permalink) Old 02-14-2019, 01:55 PM
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I've tried LSD a couple of times before, it definitely made me look at the timeline of my life from a very long term perspective. Also bad trips and hallucinations made me believe in crazy sad things like the death of people I know. It definitely made me a little more appreciative of whats around me, before its gone you know. But I have this issue of just tripping alone in my room with a bunch of technology, which I don't think is conducive to the best thing since I end up realizing "hey this is why you're alone!" I do get the sense of "Get your **** together" and it works for a lot of the next day kinda. Issue is that my brain is too exhausted to do any mental work like schoolwork, or learning things on the side so I just end up doing physical things (cleaning, other chores). As far as "curing" my depression, anxiety it just makes me look at why what I do makes me depressed/anxious. So nowadays I see everything like that, it is kind of torture lately. I can't really get out of my head since it always goes back to that. On the other hand I was able to appreciate works of art more and actually form my own opinions on things beyond having it under the veil of depression/anxiety so I was considering microdosing to just get the ball rolling on myself. DMT I was considering as well, but I'll wait to do my research on it a bit more.
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post #107 of 116 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 05:38 PM
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Interesting thread. It takes me back to my couple of experiences with LSD.

I wasted the opportunities. This was about 20 years ago, when I was young and stupid. I was going through a time of very heavy drug use, mostly ecstasy, and my supplier got hold of some microdots, so I thought I'd give it a go, expecting a buzz of some kind lol.

I remember being out with a friend in central London, just wandering around, after I'd taken some.

What stayed with me was how at one point I became aware of the inner workings of my mind, which must usually be hidden away in the background somewhere.

It's hard to describe, but it was like in certain situations I was aware of my mind entering a mode where various options became available to me.

For example, when my friend and I parted company, I saw how my mind entered "you're on your own now" mode, bringing along with it a feeling of depression. Kind of like the switching from one mood to another was very clear to observe.

The other time I took it and went to a nightclub with some people I knew, again expecting an ecstasy/speed type buzz. This predictably wasn't a good experience. I wasn't with people or in surroundings I felt comfortable with. The result was paranoia and confusion, with some weird visual stuff.

The dude who got me the dots told me afterwards that LSD can open doors in your mind, but that sometimes it opens doors that are best left closed. I thought that was a good way of putting it.

When I think back, I wish I'd been better prepared to make the most of the experiences, so I could have taken more out of them.

If I got the opportunity, I'd take LSD again. But now, with years of being on medication under my belt, I'm not sure what kind of experience I'd have.
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post #108 of 116 (permalink) Old 03-15-2019, 07:19 PM
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Definitely a proponent of LSD/shrooms to experience deeper states/emotions, although, like stated above--it can open doors and face you with uncomfortable revelations.
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post #109 of 116 (permalink) Old 03-20-2019, 05:32 PM
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Does anyone else see these drugs as a type of exposure therapy for any kind of anxiety and PTSD? The more you use them the better you get at dealing with extreme anxiety.
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post #110 of 116 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 12:52 PM Thread Starter
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Just reading into an article about ketamine treatment for depression, I think it should land here. A Vaccine for Depression? Thanks for sharing the article @Erroll !

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@jtd1974
Thanks for sharing your experiences guys. Not in a place to comment at the moment...

@Chevy396
Yes, sort off. I'll expand on that later. What are your thoughts on this?

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post #111 of 116 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 01:45 PM
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I've taken edging psychedelic doses of psilocybin and I can definitely see how it can be effective. Everything became slightly dreamy and nothing seemed like a big deal at all. The world seems to turn to 4k HD and everything has vibrant depth and color as well. Objects get imposing and you can feel the presence of everything around you. Very interesting.
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post #112 of 116 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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post #113 of 116 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 06:39 PM
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Take something that inherently doesn't cost much money, patent it and jack up the price 10,000%. No wonder why they are betting big money. That is the broken western medical system. Substances have no medicinal value until big pharma comes along and patents it, then all of a sudden it has medical value. No it didn't have medical value all along.

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post #114 of 116 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Does anyone else see these drugs as a type of exposure therapy for any kind of anxiety and PTSD? The more you use them the better you get at dealing with extreme anxiety.
In my view anxiety often is a sign of unintegrated trauma. If you find yourself in a situation resembling that, your system detects great danger, resulting in a fight/flight/freeze response. If I look at my case, I believe that a significant part of who I've become is a defense structure against the original trauma of being rejected for who I am. I feel fundamentally flawed and unlovable. This is triggered in many social situations, since the trauma is interpersonal. The level of anxiety is an indication of how much is not integrated and just below consciousness.

What I experienced during my first two aya trips was absolute hell. I just landed in the middle of it. Something has been integrated because of it. I hear from friends that I'm less skittish, more present, more balanced, less cramped. I think unintegrated trauma makes you rigid. Desperate to remain in control. A lot of energy goes into holding up the walls around it. Maintaining a persona, if you will.

So if you finally experience what you've been working so hard to avoid from entering your consciousness, what's left to defend against and to be anxious about? So rather than becoming desensitized, in the case of exposure, I think psychedelics can help you to integrate your past reality. The wall, the default mode network, is put out of business under their influence, so anything in your subconscious can now find it's way up. This may include those exiled parts of yourself that weren't welcome in the past. I welcomed some very vulnerable and innocent little TJ's on my last two aya experiences.

You could view this as exposure to what was and has been stored inside for ages.

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post #115 of 116 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 08:29 AM Thread Starter
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Take something that inherently doesn't cost much money, patent it and jack up the price 10,000%. No wonder why they are betting big money. That is the broken western medical system. Substances have no medicinal value until big pharma comes along and patents it, then all of a sudden it has medical value. No it didn't have medical value all along.
Your cynicism is understandable. Though the fact that big pharma shows interest in psychedelics doesn't automatically mean that they are "inventing" medicinal value. If you look into the research, the therapeutic potential is clearly there. This is the reason MAPS (non-profit) and other organisations have been promoting scientific research despite non-rational legislation for decades. The involvement of big pharma means rescheduling of these substances is much more likely than it ever has been. These guys bring in the big bucks for the large scale research to make that happen. If I have to choose between availability of these substances to those who can potentially save their life with them while filling the pockets of big pharma or no availability at all, that's a no brainer.

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post #116 of 116 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 09:10 AM
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Your cynicism is understandable. Though the fact that big pharma shows interest in psychedelics doesn't automatically mean that they are "inventing" medicinal value. If you look into the research, the therapeutic potential is clearly there. This is the reason MAPS (non-profit) and other organisations have been promoting scientific research despite non-rational legislation for decades. The involvement of big pharma means rescheduling of these substances is much more likely than it ever has been. These guys bring in the big bucks for the large scale research to make that happen. If I have to choose between availability of these substances to those who can potentially save their life with them while filling the pockets of big pharma or no availability at all, that's a no brainer.
Availability if you are rich, otherwise no it isn't going to be available. Es-ketamine is not available. I'm not saying there isn't medical evidence to support the medicinal use of psychedelics, there is, and it is equal to the amount of evidence that many doctors use to prescribe medications off label everyday. Yes those drugs have gone through large scale trials but usually for completely unrelated conditions so that those trials have little to do with the off label uses they are using them for. That quantum of evidence is apparently just fine for western medical doctors (hypocrisy).

It is the same bull**** with cannabis, the western medical establishment claims there is no medical evidence (only because they cant patent and profit) when actually there are over 21,000 published medical studies/articles on the medicinal properties of cannabis, including a number of placebo controlled studies. Of course big pharma tried to isolate and patent cannabis molecules but largely failed, like cesamet, marinol, sativex; those have medical value but cannabis does not. It is really laughable and disgusting.

Oh and when it came to rescheduling CBD, nope, it was only given to Epidolex instead even though they are essentially the exact same thing. Big pharma CBD has medical value, non big pharma CBD, abolsutely useless, no accepted medical value, high potent for abuse, etc etc bs.

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