LSD/hallucinogen therapy - Page 3 - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #41 of 100 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
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@VanDamMan
Thank you. Sounds indeed very much like what I've come across so far. That's basically have an intent, but let go and be open to the experience.

@twitchy666
At school he says :-) Quite an out of the box education, I guess?

@bottleofblues
Same here. Consciousness in general fascinates me. If I weren't as damaged emotionally I would probably have tried a bunch by now. It's a risky thing for us, I think. And potentially a new type of medication/treatment. And there's where it becomes really interesting.

@feels
Yeah, I'm starting to see a pattern here. Psychedelics seem to have great healing potential but can be also very destructive. It's a pity some find out the hard way. I hope you won't be one of them.

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post #42 of 100 (permalink) Old 06-14-2017, 01:16 PM
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I'm curious about this myself. A lot of cultures have a history of use of hallucinogens in controlled settings i.e. an elder of the community guides the process for some sort of spiritual awakening/enlightenment and this sort of seems like a form of return to that by micro dosing as opposed to pushing for a hardcore trip. I'd like to try it at some point because I've already tried anti-depressants and contrary to their name they can actually make you even more unstable and the withdrawals when you stop abruptly are quite unsettling as well
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post #43 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 01:39 PM
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Tried this a few months ago when I was very suicidal and having chronic insomnia. Only had a short window of experiencing it before I fell asleep. It did seem to have taken the edge off for awhile... thinking of trying again..
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post #44 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 01:56 PM
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no this is a very barbaric form of treatment and should only be used as last resort if ur ever in a situation facing capital punishment
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post #45 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 11:54 PM
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Oddly enough, I started doing research on psychedelic therapy today and then this thread popped up in Recent Discussions. Reading some Stanislav Grof right now.

For forty-seven years I've put up with it now. I must stop Christmas from coming ... but how?
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post #46 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-12-2017, 09:28 PM
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Micro-dosing psilocybe mushrooms works wonders. Sometimes you catch yourself smiling for no reason.
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post #47 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-12-2017, 09:41 PM
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This is my favorite type of therapy. I have tripped on quite a few different hallucinogens. Sometimes for fun, sometimes to have a psychological breakthrough. Just recently they helped me find closure from my last relationship (thus the username).

It is sometimes scary and psychologically dangerous though. If you use too much and have ego death too suddenly, it might take a while to recover from it. Micro-dosing is nice, but try to keep in mind that there is more that it can do for you if you are ready to have your worldview questioned, by your inner self.

I would recommend shrooms over LSD. They're not quite as harsh. I took too much LSD once and started seeing spiders crawling all over my friend's garage and started to panic. So I left and went home. I ended up watching Platoon on this tiny 8 inch TV. I remember feeling like I was a giant looking down into another 8 inch world. I had a very numb feeling towards the movie as well. Usually it brings up a lot of emotion.

Always make sure you have some alcohol or benzos on hand in case you feel like you've really gone too far. Sometimes it's better to just ride out the anxiety, but you will know if you can't take it anymore.

If you've had any trauma in your life, especially childhood trauma, you can expect it to surface during the trip.
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post #48 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-12-2017, 10:02 PM
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Taking too much of that stuff is hit or miss, the trip depends on so many outside factors. Had a few not so good experiences but that was because of not respecting them and taking way more than I thought I was prepared for. Small doses are surprisingly therapeutic. It's like a eraser going over the cobwebs of conditioned thoughts and perceptions. Listening to Alan Watts discourses doesn't hurt.
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post #49 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Tuan Jie View Post
Thank you for your reply.

It is off course not something to take lightly. I'm actually referring to a form of treatment, carried out in a controlled and safe environment with therapists. It has been a taboo for decades, but more scientific research has been carried out in the last years. I read about trials with promising results for the treatment of anxiety/depression. Something scientists were researching before the hippies destroyed everything.
From what I've seen and heard so far, I understand an LSD trip for instance, can enable you to view yourself and your history from such a different perspective that it can profoundly impact your life from then on. I imagine the feeling of connectedness and the realization that everything is one could be beneficial for someone who's life is destroyed by SA.
I think I'd be willing to give something like that a try.
I've always been scared of taking hallucinogens because I feel like I'm way too unstable for it. Recreational use is not for me really. I do however, realize that my only problem is the way I experience things. Any form of therapy is aimed at changing this. It hasn't gotten me very far though. Cognitive, meds, exposure, regression, etc. It just hasn't helped me to get to a point where life is actually bearable/enjoyable. The status qua is horrible, unsustainable. It's a "when everything else has failed" kind of quest, I guess.
MDMA is what you want for a therapy session... no bad trips on MDMA either (unless you did a wild overdose)

more empathy, less psychedelic, openess, talkative mood... take between 120-200 mg at once, then wait at least 2-3 months before you decide to take it again (if you feel the need to do it again)

having a trained therapist who you are reasonably comfortable with may be necessary for a long-term productive experience though

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post #50 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 05:42 AM
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MDMA is what you want for a therapy session... no bad trips on MDMA either (unless you did a wild overdose)

more empathy, less psychedelic, openess, talkative mood... take between 120-200 mg at once, then wait at least 2-3 months before you decide to take it again (if you feel the need to do it again)

having a trained therapist who you are reasonably comfortable with may be necessary for a long-term productive experience though
I've never really been able to feel anything from pure MDMA, only when it was mixed with something stronger like a narcotic. I wonder if anyone else has experienced this. Maybe I didn't take enough, but I was taking the recommended dosage. Even doubled it after having no effect other than paranoia the next day. I am usually very sensitive to drugs.
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post #51 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 09:19 AM
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@Tuan Jie
Here is a link to a very recent article on the subject.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-...al-health.html

I was struck by the similarity of the drug effects, to the goals in Buddhism, where the "self" is seen as the source of Dukkha (suffering) and the goal is to escape the "self". From my own examination of consciousness, it seems that the idea of a "self" is, in fact, a persistent illusion. Maybe the true "self" is at the universe level, and we are but neurons in a universal brain. It strikes me that I may sound like I slice mushrooms on my breakfast cereal, but I've never tried the stuff.

Interestingly, though, we once took our son to a homeopath for his anxiety problems, and were prescribed micro-doses of some kind of mushroom. His health was delicate though, so we stopped seeing the homeopath and went with a more acceptable cognitive therapy approach to his problems.

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post #52 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 03:33 PM
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I've never really been able to feel anything from pure MDMA, only when it was mixed with something stronger like a narcotic. I wonder if anyone else has experienced this. Maybe I didn't take enough, but I was taking the recommended dosage. Even doubled it after having no effect other than paranoia the next day. I am usually very sensitive to drugs.
Either under-dosed or it wasn't MDMA. MDMA high is unmistakeable. Did you test it? Even if you have a powder that tests positive, that doesn't mean it's not cut. Antidepressants and other similar medication will block its effects.

Take a 200-250mg dose and you'll feel it...

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post #53 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 03:44 PM
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Either under-dosed or it wasn't MDMA. MDMA high is unmistakeable. Did you test it? Even if you have a powder that tests positive, that doesn't mean it's not cut. Antidepressants and other similar medication will block its effects.

Take a 200-250mg dose and you'll feel it...
That's how much I took (200mg), and it was from the most reputable source possible at the time other than prescription. It was definitely pure too.

I did feel something from taking a couple "purple buddha" pills from off the street, but I'm guessing those are cut with heroin, because that's mostly what it felt like.

Maybe there is something wrong with the part of my brain that processes it. Probably should have taken way more.
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post #54 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 04:22 PM
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That's how much I took (200mg), and it was from the most reputable source possible at the time other than prescription. It was definitely pure too.

I did feel something from taking a couple "purple buddha" pills from off the street, but I'm guessing those are cut with heroin, because that's mostly what it felt like.

Maybe there is something wrong with the part of my brain that processes it. Probably should have taken way more.
I don't believe it's possible to get an MDMA prescription, at least not in the United States. It is being studied though for very specific cases of trauma and PTSD etc. for use with a therapist.

There's no way to guarantee a substance unless it has been tested with multiple reagents, and even then it is not guaranteed. I remember seeing a study where something like 50% of all ecstacy pills being sold on the street in the UK didn't even contain MDMA... And getting a positive reaction on multiple reagent tests tells you nothing about the purity of a powder or dosage of a pill. It's been some years, but from what I can remember, to get the exact mg dosage of what you are taking requires an acetone wash. It is a popular misconception that powder = pure or that MDMA powders can't be cut...

You won't find $20 ecstasy pills cut with heroin lol. Dealing drugs is a business model. Heroin is a very scarce drug and is worth 2x more on the street than pure gold gram for gram... Maybe some kind of very cheap very weak opioid, but still I have never really seen an ecstasy pill that was cut with opioids... It's very rare. If they are cut, they are more often than not cut with caffeine, amphetamines, etc. but like I said, a decent amount of them don't even contain MDMA at all which is the magic substance itself.

Of the few pills that do actually contain MDMA on the street, they are usually dosed pretty weak, but you never know and that's what's scary. If you aren't testing your pills, then most likely you don't have MDMA... There are thousands of research substances (or even things like caffeine, piperazine, and small doses of meth) that are passed off as MDMA because they feel "similar". Open up any drug testing website database and you'll be surprised to find what is actually inside of your "MDMA" pill...

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post #55 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 04:34 PM
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I don't believe it's possible to get an MDMA prescription, at least not in the United States. It is being studied though for very specific cases of trauma and PTSD etc. for use with a therapist.

There's no way to guarantee a substance unless it has been tested with multiple reagents, and even then it is not guaranteed. I remember seeing a study where something like 50% of all ecstacy pills being sold on the street in the UK didn't even contain MDMA... And getting a positive reaction on multiple reagent tests tells you nothing about the purity of a powder or dosage of a pill. It's been some years, but from what I can remember, to get the exact mg dosage of what you are taking requires an acetone wash. It is a popular misconception that powder = pure or that MDMA powders can't be cut...

You won't find $20 ecstasy pills cut with heroin lol. Dealing drugs is a business model. Heroin is a very scarce drug and is worth 2x more on the street than pure gold gram for gram... Maybe some kind of very cheap very weak opioid, but still I have never really seen an ecstasy pill that was cut with opioids... It's very rare. If they are cut, they are more often than not cut with caffeine, amphetamines, etc. but like I said, a decent amount of them don't even contain MDMA at all which is the magic substance itself.

Of the few pills that do actually contain MDMA on the street, they are usually dosed pretty weak, but you never know and that's what's scary. If you aren't testing your pills, then most likely you don't have MDMA... There are thousands of research substances (or even things like caffeine, piperazine, and small doses of meth) that are passed off as MDMA because they feel "similar". Open up any drug testing website database and you'll be surprised to find what is actually inside of your "MDMA" pill...
The pure stuff was (allegedly) from the most reputable seller on silk road before it was shut down. There was a reputation system similar to Amazon where it was impossible to sell fake or cut drugs for more than a couple of days without getting a bad rating.

The Purple Buddha pills were from someone in California who knew what they were doing. They had brown flecks in them that you could see. And they claimed it was heroin. I used to use heroin a little bit, and I recognized the feeling too.

I would be willing to bet they were both legit. This was back before those nasty research chemicals really hit the market. And I didn't really need to test it because I knew where it was coming from. I'm sure they could tell the difference between fake ecstasy and real ecstasy. The only people who can't haven't used it very much.

There was one other time, way before that when I was around 18 that I snorted half of a pill. I didn't really feel much then either. I can't imagine that all three times from good sources that long ago would be fake. And if they were fake, I would have felt something.

I don't think this is a common experience at all, but I have heard of it before.
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post #56 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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@Canadian Brotha
Indeed, the use of psychedelics is about as old as human kind. Modern societies often look down upon "primitive cultures" and these practices. Apart from that being pretty damn arrogant, I believe it's a big mistake and a missed opportunity to learn some valuable lessons. We've more or less reduced these very potent substances to something to consume, to enjoy like a drink, while "primitive cultures" have a healthy respect for it's potency and treat it accordingly as far as I'm aware. I like that you mention the use of it in a controlled setting and the guidance by elders. That didn't come about for no reason, as i believe these people are not dumber than you and I. It is bloody powerfull stuff and from what I understand from science, the controlled setting is a crucial ingredient for it to be benefical for a person. It requires a certain humbleness, a healthy dose of respect for it's power. Something many of us aren't quite accustomed to. I do think psychedelics are mostly used to bring about a "hardcore trip" though, as this is often perceived as a doorway through which you meet the Gods or a substance enabling your spirit to travel to other dimensions. I don't see that, or a secular varient of it, happening with micro dosing. But it makes sense to start out with that or to even stick with that. The less you need, the better.

@MadnessVertigo
Please share your experience with us!
I'm sorry to hear you've been at this low. Has it happened to you often? How are things for you now? Is this the reason you resorted to psychedelics?
I've been dealing with suicidal tendencies of and on for twenty years now. I'm actually in it with one leg at the moment. In fact, the only thing I could come up with as a plausible answer to this condition during my second worst crises, just half a year ago, was psychedelic therapy. There is nothing else that I know of I can still believe in. Everything else has melted away as snow before the sun. It's all an illusion, just a bandaid on an open artery. I am not going to last as is. I'm afraid you know what I'm talking about. So I've promised myself I can't die before I've tried this. I'm aiming for actual treament, not self medication, but if it'll take too long and the despair is too high, I'll probably resort to alternative measures of bringing this about. I recently volunteered for a trial with ketamine at the univetrsity of Delft, but I didn't fit all their criteria.

@RockmanJL9981
It wouldn't be my first choice of therapy for anybody just starting out, but "barbaric"? Apart from stories about drug use gone horribly wrong (so not the therapy I'm referring to in this thread) I haven't come across anything remotely fitting that description thus far. On the contrary, in fact. Do you have some sources you think I and others interested in this form of therapy should have a look at?

@truant
Please keep us posted on your findings, will you? Grof seems to be the grandfather of this thing. I haven't looked into his approach a great deal, but I do remember his name popping up when I was doing research prior to my ibogaine "treatment" and even before that when I was into primal therapy. His talk on psychedelic science 2017 didn't go down well with me though, because he started talking about past lives and such. No offence if that's your sort of thing, but it isn't credible for skeptics like myself. As great as his contribution and commitment to this field has been, I'm afraid the "esoteric" part isn't going to help pushing this forward and help it gain more interest and recognition from the scientific community at large. If his holotropic breathing technique (developed in a response to a complete cut of funding) can bring about similar states of mind I think it would be more elegant and the preffered way to go, but I doubt it's possible.

@mrzpete
Would you like to share some more on your experiences? I'm all ear! Did you read A Really Good Day? If yes, do you think it correctly portrays the effects of micro dosing? So far I haven't looked into micro dosing much, but I'd greatly appreciate it if you could point me to some sources where I could learn more about it.
Thank you for sharing some more. You are installing hope in me my friend!

@forgetmylife
Thank you! Would you care to elaborate on your expereince(s)?

@finallyclosed
Thanks for pitching in! How wonderful it has helped you to finally find closure from your last relationship. Which psychedelic helped you get to this point?
Psilocybine has popped up mostly on my radar as a drug for psychedelic treatment. I don't know the ins and outs, but I too got the impression it is somehow not as harsh as LSD, while not less potent.
I'm practically begging for my worldview to be questioned, even actively attemting to do so my self. But. I am me and I am limited by my own perception which I can't (profoundly) change by the power of my will. A great part of it has to do with childhood trauma and I'm convinced this is where I need to go during a trip. I'm also quite sure it's horrible beyond what I can bear and therefore potentially a catalyst for suicide. I'm reaching a point though, where I hardly have anything to lose. I think I haven't been more ready for this than I've ever been. It's not going to be me taking anything on my own, I can assure you that. It would be downright irresponsible. But If I have to resort to anything other than a session with professionals, it's good to know benzo's or alcohol can abate some of the anxiety. It can be too much at once, I imagine. The difficlulty with shrooms or anything else obtained from a questionable source is you never know the actual concentration of the active substance or if it's in there in the first place. It makes it quite hard get the correct dosage. And that's a big deal when it comes to these potent substances.

@Erroll
Thanks for the article! (I haven't read it yet).
Yes, the similarities are striking, aren't they? It becomes apparent the mind/the self is a prison when it becomes a source of perpetual suffering. It's horrible when no one is in charge there in that case, doesn't even exist there on a deeper level. That's how I often feel. It's nothing else than this brain producing this self and the suffering this self experiences. It seems deeply ingrained and virtually living it's own life. There's some great material I found that sheds some light on the perpetual nature of depression and perhaps on "mental disorders" in general. It also explains why the effects of various psychedelics on the human brain are so similar. It would be interesting to compare it to the effects of certain "Bhuddist" practices.

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post #57 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 06:00 PM
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I guess the question I would ask is: how do you know it's working? You could be hallucinating? :P
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post #58 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 06:14 PM
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I guess the question I would ask is: how do you know it's working? You could be hallucinating? :P
You know it's working when you realize it doesn't matter whether you are hallucinating or not, because the whole world is an illusion anyway.
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post #59 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 06:28 PM
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It becomes apparent the mind/the self is a prison when it becomes a source of perpetual suffering. It's horrible when no one is in charge there in that case, doesn't even exist there on a deeper level. That's how I often feel. It's nothing else than this brain producing this self and the suffering this self experiences. [/QUOTE]

Really, what is a 'self'? I think what we call 'self' is a lifetime's worth of integrated experiences.

There is no 'you' or 'I'. There is only memories what these bodies have sensed; heard, seen, tasted, smelled or felt.

With each new experience, understanding comes, not from some ethereal self, but by reference to the sum total of all past similar experience.

Experience is interaction between us and the environment (we are environmental detection machines).

The environment is not our 'self'. And no 'self' area has ever been detected in the brain. Self is an illusion. Free choice is an illusion. The universe is deterministic. Our lifelines are embedded in the state diagram of a universe in motion. Douglas Hofstadter's book "I am a strange loop" talks about this as a self referencing loop.

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post #60 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 06:33 PM
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Taking too much of that stuff is hit or miss, the trip depends on so many outside factors. Had a few not so good experiences but that was because of not respecting them and taking way more than I thought I was prepared for. Small doses are surprisingly therapeutic. It's like a eraser going over the cobwebs of conditioned thoughts and perceptions. Listening to Alan Watts discourses doesn't hurt.
@Tuan Jie
[Edit] I should have pointed out that I was referring to psychedelic mushrooms. It's one of the few that you can safely take regularly.
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