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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-31-2020, 02:40 AM Thread Starter
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How Meditation Helped Me


I believe that If you want to solve every problem of your life then you can start Practicing Meditation. When I start Practicing Meditation It benefitted me alot

A turbulent mind filled with such uncontrolled thoughts drains out the energy called prana (life force energy), leaving us exhausted and frustrated. So how do we move from this turbulence to tranquility? How can we respond to such situations peacefully?

Shriram Sarvotham, senior Sri Sri Yoga teacher, explains, “We cannot directly force or demand peace of mind, but we can prepare the mind to become still.” Meditation prepares the mind to calm down effortlessly.

We have the ability to influence our surroundings. When we enter a room where a fight has happened, we feel a little uneasy; when we enter a room where a baby is playing, we catch onto the enthusiasm and joy even if we’re tired.

Similarly, even in a tumultuous situation, if we have inner peace we can spread the vibrations of peace around us. Peace radiating outward can help reduce the turbulence. A few minutes of meditation daily helps us remain calm during any situation.
Meditation’s effects
In addition, meditation does the following:
-makes you mentally strong so you can face any situation with a smile
-makes you peaceful inside
-reflects in outer situations
-increases emotional resilience
-reduces the tendency to react haphazardly
-increases the tendency to respond calmly and intelligently
-provides an effective way to de-stress your mind
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-31-2020, 02:53 PM
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I would like to try meditation but I've never been able to find a guided meditation app that really works for me. I tried calm and its OK but I got bored of listening to the same meditations over and over.

You live up in your head
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Someone's always breaking in accidentally
Using nothing but their voice
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-14-2021, 02:54 AM
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I wish I could meditate away my negative self talk. Thoughts like "I'm not good enough to keep a woman interested"

Or thoughts like "I'm not good enough at my job"

Or..."my guitar skills will never improve" etc

I'm nearly 30 and this negative self talk is still there.

I sometimes wonder if recording it in my own voice will help.

When is a Door not a door ?
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-14-2021, 08:35 AM
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I would like to try meditation but I've never been able to find a guided meditation app that really works for me. I tried calm and its OK but I got bored of listening to the same meditations over and over.
Not a fan of guided personally, unless its guided compassion or something else, but that isn't really meditation. Or well, maybe it is, but its not really where the benefits would come from.

I think the benefits come from the act of directing your consciousness onto something, over and over again. Id say by necessity it cant be guided. Headspace are "semi guided", but you will get more benefit from 2-5 mins of unguided breath meditation per day than a 20 min guided.

It's boring for sure, and I struggle with that too but, that's almost the point. Because the sensation of "boring" is thoughts / feelings, and as such you don't need to "fuse" with boring . Something like that, anyway hah. "Is the time up yet", every time I meditate lol.

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I wish I could meditate away my negative self talk. Thoughts like "I'm not good enough to keep a woman interested"

Or thoughts like "I'm not good enough at my job"

Or..."my guitar skills will never improve" etc

I'm nearly 30 and this negative self talk is still there.

I sometimes wonder if recording it in my own voice will help.
Negative self talk is always there. For everyone. You can't make them go away sadly.

You have two options, challenge it, or accept it. For former is CBT, the latter is meditation.

In meditation you would notice the thought, from above, and not "fuse" with it (not engage, get into a debate with it). Practice in meditation just observing all your thoughts and feelings, observing them (I like to give feelings a colour), then return back to the breathing sensations and let them fade naturally. It's when you engage with them, and try to fight that they hang around. What bothers you isn't the thought "I'm not good enough at my job", it's just a thought. Its what that thought means, and makes you feel, that is what bothers you. And that is way further down a cascade of thoughts and feelings:

"I am at work"
"I have been here a while now eh?"
"I wonder if I am doing this task well"
"I wonder if I am good at my job"
"How would I know"
"I haven't been fired"
"Yeh, but i could still be **** at my job"
"I might be **** at my job" **
(feel attacked, bad, guilty, shame) *
"What kind of pathetic person am I?"**
"Why haven't I been promoted, I must be ****" **
(feel attacked, bad, guilty, shame). *

* are where you actually feel something. Before that point there's likely a whole string of thoughts, most of which are trivial, then occasionally one gets a reaction, you debate it, you end up feeling like crap, this is the process of "fusing" with your thoughts. You don't need to do this.

** are what I would call the critical voice (in both schema therapy and compassion focused therapy). We can be incredibly abusive towards ourselves (everyone is, btw, in varying levels). But some people (if there was an overly critical parent, or partner, or bullying) have internalised an absolute monstrous critical voice, which masquerades as the voice of "helping us get things done", but is actually just a torturer.

Mindfulness is the first step in being able to even pic this up, because we automatically fuse with thoughts, and it takes daily practice to be able to even pick these up, let alone not fuse with them.

Thought I would make a detailed answer to this thread, it amuses me to turn the work of an obvious scammer / spammer into something that might be of help to someone .
Meditation is the process of observing (not trying to get rid of), and accepting all of this, then just directing your consciousness back to an object of focus (breathing usually).

Leaves on a stream meditation might be useful for you though, or cognitive defusion techniques via ACT.

Compassion focused therapy audio, guided meditations:

https://balancedminds.com/audio/
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-14-2021, 03:46 PM
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I would like to try meditation but I've never been able to find a guided meditation app that really works for me. I tried calm and its OK but I got bored of listening to the same meditations over and over.
Not a fan of guided personally, unless its guided compassion or something else, but that isn't really meditation. Or well, maybe it is, but its not really where the benefits would come from.

I think the benefits come from the act of directing your consciousness onto something, over and over again. Id say by necessity it cant be guided. Headspace are "semi guided", but you will get more benefit from 2-5 mins of unguided breath meditation per day than a 20 min guided.

It's boring for sure, and I struggle with that too but, that's almost the point. Because the sensation of "boring" is thoughts / feelings, and as such you don't need to "fuse" with boring <a href="http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="" >:-)</a>. Something like that, anyway hah. "Is the time up yet", every time I meditate lol.

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I wish I could meditate away my negative self talk. Thoughts like "I'm not good enough to keep a woman interested"

Or thoughts like "I'm not good enough at my job"

Or..."my guitar skills will never improve" etc

I'm nearly 30 and this negative self talk is still there.

I sometimes wonder if recording it in my own voice will help.
Negative self talk is always there. For everyone. You can't make them go away sadly.

You have two options, challenge it, or accept it. For former is CBT, the latter is meditation.

In meditation you would notice the thought, from above, and not "fuse" with it (not engage, get into a debate with it). Practice in meditation just observing all your thoughts and feelings, observing them (I like to give feelings a colour), then return back to the breathing sensations and let them fade naturally. It's when you engage with them, and try to fight that they hang around. What bothers you isn't the thought "I'm not good enough at my job", it's just a thought. Its what that thought means, and makes you feel, that is what bothers you. And that is way further down a cascade of thoughts and feelings:

"I am at work"
"I have been here a while now eh?"
"I wonder if I am doing this task well"
"I wonder if I am good at my job"
"How would I know"
"I haven't been fired"
"Yeh, but i could still be **** at my job"
"I might be **** at my job" **
(feel attacked, bad, guilty, shame) *
"What kind of pathetic person am I?"**
"Why haven't I been promoted, I must be ****" **
(feel attacked, bad, guilty, shame). *

* are where you actually feel something. Before that point there's likely a whole string of thoughts, most of which are trivial, then occasionally one gets a reaction, you debate it, you end up feeling like crap, this is the process of "fusing" with your thoughts. You don't need to do this.

** are what I would call the critical voice (in both schema therapy and compassion focused therapy). We can be incredibly abusive towards ourselves (everyone is, btw, in varying levels). But some people (if there was an overly critical parent, or partner, or bullying) have internalised an absolute monstrous critical voice, which masquerades as the voice of "helping us get things done", but is actually just a torturer.

Mindfulness is the first step in being able to even pic this up, because we automatically fuse with thoughts, and it takes daily practice to be able to even pick these up, let alone not fuse with them.

Thought I would make a detailed answer to this thread, it amuses me to turn the work of an obvious scammer / spammer into something that might be of help to someone <a href="http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="" >:-)</a>.
Meditation is the process of observing (not trying to get rid of), and accepting all of this, then just directing your consciousness back to an object of focus (breathing usually).

Leaves on a stream meditation might be useful for you though, or cognitive defusion techniques via ACT.
Hmm....ok now if only I could apply this to dating:

I'm filled with negative self talking since I lost my fiancee. The negative self talk includes

(1) I got lucky. I was a virgin when I met her. Now that she's left, I'm not sure I have the skills to attract another woman again.

(2) I've tried dating 2 women so far. One flat out rejected me when I asked her out, and the other went on one date with me, and has since always had a busy schedule everytime I ask her out again

(3) I don't know how to turn casual conversation into sexual tension to get a woman excited and make her want to go out with me....I just ....lack that skill, and no amount of self help youtube videos has made it any better.

(4) which brings me back to point number 1, now that I'm newly single, I have no idea what I'm doing when I interact with women ....I wish I could shut down my fear centre.

When is a Door not a door ?
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-14-2021, 04:37 PM
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Hmm....ok now if only I could apply this to dating:

I'm filled with negative self talking since I lost my fiancee. The negative self talk includes
Of course you are. That's what happens when you get dumped. It also happens if you are the dumper, fwiw. But not to the same extent. I will challenge some of these thoughts for you .

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(1) I got lucky. I was a virgin when I met her. Now that she's left, I'm not sure I have the skills to attract another woman again.
Everyone was a virgin once (except me lol). Of course you aren't sure, what happens when you get dumped is you immediately see yourself as lower value than the person that dumped you. This always happens. Always. Anyone who is dumped has these thoughts. (I recommend the love chat YT channel and more this channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpF...Tc0-rMtdUvtanA) - these are useful as they explain exactly whats going on in your mind when you are dumped. Skills are gained through practice, and ****ing up, and getting better.

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(2) I've tried dating 2 women so far. One flat out rejected me when I asked her out, and the other went on one date with me, and has since always had a busy schedule everytime I ask her out again
Well 50% is pretty good. There's all kinds of reasons why someone would say no, and you should look at these things in terms of "I wasn't what she was looking for", rather than "I was rejected". Its literally not a measure of your value, its about personal preferences. And the one who said yes, she decided you weren't a good match for her. Do you really want to be with someone who isn't into you? Why?

What is it about these women you want so much? Give me the list of what it is about them that makes you so into them, to so want to be with them? Give me their attributes and characteristics that makes you want them so much? Because it sounds like you really like them?

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(3) I don't know how to turn casual conversation into sexual tension to get a woman excited and make her want to go out with me....I just ....lack that skill, and no amount of self help youtube videos has made it any better.
Why are you trying to make a woman sexually excited? Why aren't you thinking about what kinds of women make you sexually excited? Were you feeling sexual tension on the date? What was it about her that made you sexually excited? If no, then of course she won't be feeling sexual tension. You need to get the idea out of your mind that you are trying to "win" women, and you need to start getting into the idea of the date being a way to find out if sexual chemistry exists between you, and feeling sexual tension yourself. Because sexual tension works like that, its mutual, its unconscious, and whilst yes, you can probably pua your way into sexual tension, I am not sure this is the best way to approach this, and I don't believe its the right mindset for you, at all!

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(4) which brings me back to point number 1, now that I'm newly single, I have no idea what I'm doing when I interact with women ....I wish I could shut down my fear centre.
Isn't a point hah. This one is a bit like the old kinder surprise advert where they would say "kinder surprise, 3 surprises in one, chocolate, a toy and a surprise" hah, no.

Heres the thing, I ended my relationship last Feb, because I had to. I am not the most experienced guy in the world and there is always that doubt, will anyone be interested in me? Will I find someone else? All of those doubts made me stay in the relationship way longer than I should have. I have heard enough about your relationship, her, her family and so on to suggest to you that you likely should have ended the relationship earlier too. Do you not think so? Did it not cross your mind?

Heres the thing too.. Everyone, or almost everyone has these kinds of doubts, these thoughts. I would guess there is an epidemic of people stuck in ****ty relationships because they are terrified of being single. You aren't alone in any of this mate, its pretty standard stuff and doubts.

And engaging with this thinking is super toxic, its whats driving your distress. Imo, yeh, meditate for 5 mins a day, visualise a stream, and every thought that pops into your head, visualise that thought, and picture placing the thought on a leave and watch it bob off downstream. What you will find is, another thought pops up almost instantly. Put that on the leaf. Continue. When you find yourself in a thought chain, having fused with the thoughts (no longer observing), try to trace your way back, and place them all on a leaf. The more you do this, the more you can become that observer and recognise these thoughts as the natural (but totally useless) mind chatter they are.

Compassion focused therapy audio, guided meditations:

https://balancedminds.com/audio/
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-14-2021, 05:29 PM
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Not a fan of guided personally, unless its guided compassion or something else, but that isn't really meditation. Or well, maybe it is, but its not really where the benefits would come from.

I think the benefits come from the act of directing your consciousness onto something, over and over again. Id say by necessity it cant be guided. Headspace are "semi guided", but you will get more benefit from 2-5 mins of unguided breath meditation per day than a 20 min guided.

It's boring for sure, and I struggle with that too but, that's almost the point. Because the sensation of "boring" is thoughts / feelings, and as such you don't need to "fuse" with boring . Something like that, anyway hah. "Is the time up yet", every time I meditate lol

It's the only way I can meditate unfortunately. I am too ADD to do it on my own. I can only focus for 30 seconds before my head is off somewhere else thinking about god knows what. It's very difficult for me to quiet my thoughts and focus.

You live up in your head
Scared of every little noise
Someone's always breaking in accidentally
Using nothing but their voice
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-14-2021, 05:44 PM
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Hi all, hope you don't mind me intruding... May I approach this from a different angle, and put this out for discussion etc. In the past when something has been bothering me, I ask myself "Why am I thinking/feeling this way?" So if I am thinking "Why am I not good enough", I would ask myself why am I always saying to myself "I am not good enough"? Invariably the answer comes back, and it's the right answer. When you know the answer to a specific problem it becomes much easier to tackle. So finding the answer to "I am not good enough" and solving it so you no longer think this way, should in turn potentially change a whole mindset about how someone sees themself as a person, a inner confidence if you will, which through interactions will be conveyed to others. Moving onto dating/potential relationships and sexual tension... I would firstly like to say I am a gay man, our mind-sets may vary and what works in a gay relationship might not work in a straight relationship and vice versa, but I shall share what has worked for me... When meeting someone new, amongst other things I am sounding them out to see if they are equally attracted to me. This is done through honesty... I might say something like "I have to be honest I find you extremely attractive". It doesn't have to be what you say, but how you say it. It's said in a questioning fashion.. I find you attractive, do you find me attractive too. Obviously if the answer is yes and how that yes is conveyed, you know how to proceed the friendship, and if the answer is no, again you know where you stand and there is mutual respect. The main thing is firstly how you feel about yourself and then be true to yourself and be true to others. As I say I put this out there for discussion, and I hope it helps.

These are just my thoughts/opinions, I am not a Doctor/Health Professional etc. so please draw your own conclusions.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-14-2021, 08:13 PM
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Of course you are. That's what happens when you get dumped. It also happens if you are the dumper, fwiw. But not to the same extent. I will challenge some of these thoughts for you .

Thanks for the reply...I'm actually having a much harder time dealing with this, than I outwardly project.


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Skills are gained through practice, and ****ing up, and getting better.
I feel so nervous and unsure when talking to a new woman, I often wonder, Am I getting any better at this ? Talking to women should be effortless by now.


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What is it about these women you want so much? Give me the list of what it is about them that makes you so into them, to so want to be with them? Give me their attributes and characteristics that makes you want them so much? Because it sounds like you really like them?
I don't meet much women Ok. So far its just these two. And one of them is because someone who knew of my break-up set me up on a blind date. Anyway. With both these women I felt some sort of chemistry.

The first was the blind-date was an old high-school classmate of mine. She's attractive. I thought we had good chemistry on the first date, I thought the conversation was pretty spontaneous. But then once the date finished, I just can't seem to seduce her enough to agree to a second date...even if she responds to ALL my messages in a friendly flirtatious manner, even when I take a chance and complement her on how sexy she looks...once I ask her out...she is always busy...and I've asked her out 3 times already since the first date ..and that was since Christmas. I watched a video that said, if the girl is really interested, she will offer to reschedule without you asking well that ain't happening, so I guess she's just playing me to soak up the compliments...maybe I should just stop messaging her ?

So....trying not to invest ALL MY HOPE in one person...I asked out this co-worker, who I find really attractive. I started by flirting at work and telling some jokes. It seemed like she liked my jokes...so I asked her out...she said no she'd rather keep it formal. Odd thing is...she still responds to my texts ...but I'm afraid to ask her out again and get a second no.

If she said no, why does she still respond to friendly text conversation ? Is it that she just enjoys the compliments ?


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Why are you trying to make a woman sexually excited? Why aren't you thinking about what kinds of women make you sexually excited?
Why am I trying to make a woman excited ?
Every single piece of advice I have read and watched says, if you don't learn how to keep a woman excited/entertained, she will get bored and leave you....and frankly ...women getting bored and leaving me has been my entire dating-life experience...so yes...I'm always worried about coming off as boring !

What kinds of women make me sexually excited ?
...it doesn't matter what kind of woman makes me sexually excited, because I don't get to choose. It's not like women walk up to me and ask me out. I have to seek them out. I've already come to terms with that. So I try not to be too choosy. If I see a woman who I find attractive, close enough to my age group and I think we have good conversation, I ask her out.

I meet so few new women on a daily basis, I don't have the luxury of making a list of traits that I am looking for.
Right now I'm not even at work. I'm on vacation. I haven't met any women at the local bars yet.


sigh....I will try meditating. I keep reading that the key is confidence. How am I supposed to have confidence, if my experiences are failures ? How am I supposed to meet a new woman now, when all social gatherings are cancelled due to coronavirus ?

When is a Door not a door ?
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-16-2021, 01:50 PM
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Thanks for the reply...I'm actually having a much harder time dealing with this, than I outwardly project.
Mate, it's ****ing brutal. Being broken up with. It literally ****s with your mind, your self-esteem, all of it. It's **** that is way out of your conscious control, its a bit like being abandoned by your tribe. A kind of primal desperation kicks in, fear of being alone in the dark, that kind of deal.

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I feel so nervous and unsure when talking to a new woman, I often wonder, Am I getting any better at this ? Talking to women should be effortless by now.
Everyone does, its part of it, I think you need to accept it.

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I just can't seem to seduce her enough to agree to a second date...even if she responds to ALL my messages in a friendly flirtatious manner, even when I take a chance and complement her on how sexy she looks...once I ask her out...she is always busy...and I've asked her out 3 times already since the first date ..and that was since Christmas. I watched a video that said, if the girl is really interested, she will offer to reschedule without you asking well that ain't happening, so I guess she's just playing me to soak up the compliments...maybe I should just stop messaging her ?
I would stop yes. Basically, yes, you cant convince someone they are interested, and chasing does nothing. I would ask once, then just move on. Please, watch this.



Honestly, watch all of his videos. Helped me a lot through my breakup.

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So....trying not to invest ALL MY HOPE in one person...I asked out this co-worker, who I find really attractive. I started by flirting at work and telling some jokes. It seemed like she liked my jokes...so I asked her out...she said no she'd rather keep it formal. Odd thing is...she still responds to my texts ...but I'm afraid to ask her out again and get a second no.

If she said no, why does she still respond to friendly text conversation ? Is it that she just enjoys the compliments ?
It will be a no. Why do you want a second no?

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Why am I trying to make a woman excited ?
Every single piece of advice I have read and watched says, if you don't learn how to keep a woman excited/entertained, she will get bored and leave you....and frankly ...women getting bored and leaving me has been my entire dating-life experience...so yes...I'm always worried about coming off as boring !
Yeh, but if you have to constantly "act" to make them excited and entertained, its going to crap out at some point.

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What kinds of women make me sexually excited ?
...it doesn't matter what kind of woman makes me sexually excited, because I don't get to choose. It's not like women walk up to me and ask me out. I have to seek them out. I've already come to terms with that. So I try not to be too choosy. If I see a woman who I find attractive, close enough to my age group and I think we have good conversation, I ask her out.

I meet so few new women on a daily basis, I don't have the luxury of making a list of traits that I am looking for.
Right now I'm not even at work. I'm on vacation. I haven't met any women at the local bars yet.
There is always a choice, a choice to be single. Single isn't that bad, and its way better than an abusive relationship, or being with someone you don't really like.

Compassion focused therapy audio, guided meditations:

https://balancedminds.com/audio/
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-16-2021, 09:23 PM
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There is always a choice, a choice to be single. Single isn't that bad, and its way better than an abusive relationship, or being with someone you don't really like.
I wish I could say I am single by choice. I didn't choose to leave my fiancee. She left me.

Choosing to be single would be if there actually were women interested in me, and I chose to ignore them (isn't that a nice fantasy).

Choosing to be single, would be if a woman asked me out, and I turned her down (like that scenario is every gonna happen )

If there were women seeking me out and I was actively ignoring them. Then I wouldn't have any reason to doubt my sexual attractiveness, and I wouldn't be complaining on this thread.

But I am not single by choice. I am single because I suck at seduction !
I could just as easily spend the rest of my vacation indoors, and stop

When is a Door not a door ?
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-17-2021, 06:34 PM
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@VIncymon , what I am saying to you is, you ask a girl out, you can decide not to want to pursue things with her. Even if you have no other romantic options, you do have another option, the option is not asking her out for a second date, or turning her down if she does, which is fine, and you should always have that in mind. There is a very specific reason I posted that video.

You are acting like if you ask a woman out, you are legally obliged to try to make her sexually aroused, end up having sex, get in a relationship. If you ask someone out you aren't bound to them, its an expression of interest (and ideally a non-clear one, for reasons that would be obvious if you had watched that video) and an opportunity for you to determine if that person is better for you than remaining single (and that's the lowest possible bar here, but I don't think its even crossed your mind).

Why is it relevant how sexually attractive you feel you are? You are saying you want to find a partner, not validate your sexual attractiveness. Those are two very different things.

Compassion focused therapy audio, guided meditations:

https://balancedminds.com/audio/
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-19-2021, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SplendidBob View Post
@VIncymon , what I am saying to you is, you ask a girl out, you can decide not to want to pursue things with her. Even if you have no other romantic options, you do have another option, the option is not asking her out for a second date, or turning her down if she does, which is fine, and you should always have that in mind. There is a very specific reason I posted that video.

You are acting like if you ask a woman out, you are legally obliged to try to make her sexually aroused, end up having sex, get in a relationship. If you ask someone out you aren't bound to them, its an expression of interest (and ideally a non-clear one, for reasons that would be obvious if you had watched that video) and an opportunity for you to determine if that person is better for you than remaining single (and that's the lowest possible bar here, but I don't think its even crossed your mind).

Why is it relevant how sexually attractive you feel you are? You are saying you want to find a partner, not validate your sexual attractiveness. Those are two very different things.
Yea I did watch the video and some of his other videos. What I find interesting is his idea that "you are the prize"

I am finding it hard to wrap my head around the idea that "I am the prize" if I am the one asking girls out and getting rejected.

PS I try not to BS what I want. Just because I use the phrase "sexual attractiveness" all the time, it doesn't mean I'm literally looking to have sex on the first date. Obviously I am interested in companionship and all the other emotional benefits of a relationship with a woman.

I'm just trying not to beat around the bush about what I want. I've read and seen in videos that beating around the bush is one of the sure-fire ways to miss out on romantic opportunities.

Why is it relevant how sexually attractive you feel you are
Why would it not be relevant ? Sexual attraction is the difference between "let's just be friends" and "I want to see you again"

PS yes, I get your point about vetting to see if the person is better for me, than remaining single. Well...I don't know, since I have never been in the position to dump a girl.

I wish I could transfer confidence in other areas of my life to confidence in my romantic life...but I just can't make the leap in my head.

Yes...I am a professional, I'm confident in my ability to do my job. That doesn't help me attract women.
Yes I've been exercising, and I feel good about how my body looks...

I am confident that I am a responsible enough guy that if I had a wife and child, I would figure out what to do, I would find a way to make things work.

I'm just not that confident in how I actually get a wife....

I actually stopped calling the two women I mentioned earlier...what's the point ? To remain just friends? to stroke their egos ??

I'm actually getting fed-up of reading self-help books....or trying different pick-up techniques, or going out to bars in the hopes of finding a woman....thanks to covid, bars are usually empty...and I never seem to encounter new women when I go out anyway....the bars normally only have drunk men, couples, or people much older than I am, catching a drink after work....

Thanks to COVID , there are no tother social activities...everybody goes straight home after work....so single life is now like hard-mode on a video game ....the chances of meeting someone new has decreased exponentially.

I'm tired of searching....its exhausting....
If I spend the next few weeks of my vacation in my apto alone...so be it....
I will gym, play my guitar, eat and sleep.

When is a Door not a door ?
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-19-2021, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by VIncymon View Post
Yea I did watch the video and some of his other videos. What I find interesting is his idea that "you are the prize"

I am finding it hard to wrap my head around the idea that "I am the prize" if I am the one asking girls out and getting rejected.
Because a woman not being interested in you romantically isn't actually a measure of your value. It's a measure of you not being what she is looking for. It's only a measure of value if every single person is looking for the exact same thing in a partner (and even then its not really your value, just how others might perceive your value). Yes, there are common things people find attractive, but (for example), walk around and observe couples (if there are any to observe lol, but you get my point) - people who very obviously aren't the most conventionally attractive are in relationships. It's totally possible to have someone be not interested in you, and experience no perceived drop in value:

"Hi, just thought you had nice eyes and wanted to come over and introduce myself, I am VIncymon"
"Hi Vincy, how are you"
- insert brief conversation
"Was really nice speaking to you, want to grab a coffee sometime?"
"Oh, thanks, but I am really busy atm, thanks for asking though"
"No worries, have a nice day "

Reasons why she said no:

1. Has a boyfriend
2. Is into women
3. Isn't looking for anyone atm
4. Just got out of a relationship
5. Doesn't find you attractive (likes men with red hair or whatever)
6. You didn't come across as confident enough (though, tbh, most women will respect that you had the balls to ask)
7. She didn't feel any spark
8. She was having a ****ing **** day
9. It was the third time that day someone approached her and she was tired of it
...

So many reasons, and almost none of these come down to "You are low quality Vincy, you failed, you are unappealing to women, you don't have the ability to generate sexual chemistry".

So, "being rejected" (or more accurately, her saying no) isn't actually inherently reducing your value, or your position as the prize, unless you choose to opt into "every woman wants gigachad".



Now, I am not saying, don't work on improving your attractiveness, money, charisma, charm, and all of that, because generally speaking it opens more doors, I am just saying (and I am also talking to myself here btw, because holy **** I feel rejected easily), don't rush to mistake a "no" as an "I am not worthy". What you actually do, every time you approach, and have the balls to do it (its ****ing ballsy mate, I've only done it a few times), is you are improving your courage, your charm, your comfort in doing it. But try not to make the experience maladaptive by interpreting a no as a "you aren't worth it", because that just ruins the learning experience.

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Originally Posted by VIncymon View Post

PS I try not to BS what I want. Just because I use the phrase "sexual attractiveness" all the time, it doesn't mean I'm literally looking to have sex on the first date. Obviously I am interested in companionship and all the other emotional benefits of a relationship with a woman.

I'm just trying not to beat around the bush about what I want. I've read and seen in videos that beating around the bush is one of the sure-fire ways to miss out on romantic opportunities.

Why is it relevant how sexually attractive you feel you are
Why would it not be relevant ? Sexual attraction is the difference between "let's just be friends" and "I want to see you again"
Oh, more what I am getting at here is, make sure you aren't trying to find someone out of low self esteem (and to prop that up because you were dumped), rather than because you find the girl interesting / attractive, or whatever. If you don't feel sexually attractive, which you wont, because you got dumped (it has no bearing on your attractiveness, ofc, but it certainly feels that way), you will want to rectify that asap, which means you asking out women you might not be actually interested in, or your brain tricking you into thinking you are super low value.

There is a big difference in

a: restoring self esteem post breakup and
b: finding someone to **** / get in a relationship with / whatever

It's not so much that I have an issue with one night stands (nothing wrong with that), moreso that validating yourself through one night stands might not be ideal, especially in a breakup context.

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Originally Posted by VIncymon View Post
PS yes, I get your point about vetting to see if the person is better for me, than remaining single. Well...I don't know, since I have never been in the position to dump a girl.
Sure you have, you could have dumped your ex. You never thought about it? Do you think, retrospectively, you should have dumped her?

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Originally Posted by VIncymon View Post
I actually stopped calling the two women I mentioned earlier...what's the point ? To remain just friends? to stroke their egos ??
Good. One no is enough. Get used to doing this. It's almost like slightly turning them down.

Compassion focused therapy audio, guided meditations:

https://balancedminds.com/audio/
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-19-2021, 09:57 AM
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Meditation has really helped with my anxiety but I have to do it every day. And so I do... Something that has made it easier was learning that it's a practice. I try not to judge how well I'm doing ("aw it's a bit crap today") and just refresh my efforts as I go along.

@either/or boredom is a part of the process. You are supposed to work with your boredom. It's not supposed to be interesting, fun or exciting. When you're bored, the idea is that instead of thinking "ok I'm bored and this sucks" you try to focus on your breath, over and over again. Every breath is new and different, challenge yourself to feel that difference. Then, when you fail, do it over and over again. It might feel like a pointless past time but it's not pointless if it reduces anxiety.

@VIncymon pretty much what @SplendidBob said. There's a specific type of meditation for dealing with negative feelings. For a bit, you sit with the feeling, identifying what thoughts you're getting, what emotions arise and how it feels in your body (this last bit is very important). You sit with it for a little while, not blocking any thoughts or feelings, then you fade it out and switch to the usual breathing focus. There are guided recordings for this. I found this type of meditation very helpful. I've got years of repressed feelings of shame to work through.

Leonard Cohen (Bird on a Wire): I have tried in my own way to be free
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Last edited by rabidfoxes; 01-19-2021 at 09:58 AM. Reason: added spaces so it's readable
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-19-2021, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rabidfoxes View Post
@either/or boredom is a part of the process. You are supposed to work with your boredom. It's not supposed to be interesting, fun or exciting. When you're bored, the idea is that instead of thinking "ok I'm bored and this sucks" you try to focus on your breath, over and over again. Every breath is new and different, challenge yourself to feel that difference. Then, when you fail, do it over and over again. It might feel like a pointless past time but it's not pointless if it reduces anxiety.
It's exactly this (I didn't want to press them on it tho hah).

Its a realisation that you don't have to agree / cognitively fuse with the feeling of boredom. and then the practice of not doing so. It's not that its boring, its that after a while you aren't as influenced by the boredom.

The relevance of this for anxiety is obvious, you still feel anxious, but you aren't as bothered by (or a slave to) anxiety. It also allows the anxiety to fade naturally, whereas the fight usually prolongs it.

All this said, I have missed several days of mediation in a row due to low mood. Gotta get back on the horse .

Rabidfoxes, do you struggle with the not being critical part? I still really struggle with that and trying to let it be more natural rather than "performing meditation well enough". Tricky brain.

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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-19-2021, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidfoxes View Post
Meditation has really helped with my anxiety but I have to do it every day. And so I do... Something that has made it easier was learning that it's a practice. I try not to judge how well I'm doing ("aw it's a bit crap today") and just refresh my efforts as I go along.

@either/or boredom is a part of the process. You are supposed to work with your boredom. It's not supposed to be interesting, fun or exciting. When you're bored, the idea is that instead of thinking "ok I'm bored and this sucks" you try to focus on your breath, over and over again. Every breath is new and different, challenge yourself to feel that difference. Then, when you fail, do it over and over again. It might feel like a pointless past time but it's not pointless if it reduces anxiety.

@VIncymon pretty much what @SplendidBob said. There's a specific type of meditation for dealing with negative feelings. For a bit, you sit with the feeling, identifying what thoughts you're getting, what emotions arise and how it feels in your body (this last bit is very important). You sit with it for a little while, not blocking any thoughts or feelings, then you fade it out and switch to the usual breathing focus. There are guided recordings for this. I found this type of meditation very helpful. I've got years of repressed feelings of shame to work through.

Thanks. I just had a scary thought. I sat down and thought to myself, if most social activities remain closed for the rest of the year due to covid, and I already have SA ...how am I ever gonna meet someone new.

I will continue to meditate though. I have to try to stop catastrophizing things in my head.
I've got to live in the moment. I told myself that I must connect with some woman before I go back to work....but that's a mistake.

I took a holiday because I need some R&R after the cancelled wedding. What I really want is to be more at peace with myself by the time I get back to work, whether or not I meet another woman during that time is inconsequential (I'm typing this to convince myself ).

@SplendidBob Do you think, retrospectively, you should have dumped her?
If I had more confidence and truly believed I could find any woman if I wanted to then yes... I would have dumped her when she cheated on me. Even if it meant going back home with the engagement ring. In retrospect, there is nothing that I did to her that justified, that level of betrayal, and I should have had the balls to stand up to her back then, instead of letting her convince me that her cheating was due to my inadequacy...instead of it being due to her unfaithfulness.


Even if, I have enough confidence to ask out women more frequently now...I still have to work on not catastrophizing every time a woman tells me "no" as "more proof that Vincymon is incapable of generating sexual chemistry"

When is a Door not a door ?
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-19-2021, 05:47 PM
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Thanks. I just had a scary thought. I sat down and thought to myself, if most social activities remain closed for the rest of the year due to covid, and I already have SA ...how am I ever gonna meet someone new.

I will continue to meditate though. I have to try to stop catastrophizing things in my head.
I've got to live in the moment. I told myself that I must connect with some woman before I go back to work....but that's a mistake.
It's very much a mistake, I agree. You don't have that outcome within your power.

The stoic dichotomy of control is important here.

The classic example, you enter an archery competition. You spend 6 months practising, you buy the best bow, you get tuition from the best teachers, you do literally everything right, and during your shot, a gust of wind pops up and your shot misses the target.

If your goal is "I have to win the competition", you literally don't have that in your control, so you are setting yourself up to not reach your goals. If your goal is, I will do my best (based on me, my limitations, my abilities, my finances, my access to coaching) to practice, get good equipment, and try my best on the day, then you literally have control over everything and will meet your goal.

And which of the two options will actually give you the best chance of success and help you in moving forwards towards that goal? The second. You will be more chilled, you will be less perfectionist, you know you have done your best, and you won't beat the **** out of yourself for not being able to do something you don't even have full control over. With the first there is a very good chance you won't even show up, because of the insane standards you have set, and the self criticism you will feel if you don't reach your goal.

The parallels here should be obvious. Setting these kinds of heroic out of our control goals are a way of motivating ourselves to do something difficult, but it doesn't work.

The question then here, assuming you agree its right (the stoics weren't wrong about this **** lol), what should your goals be for your vacation, or for finding a good woman? I think its good to move in the direction you want to move in, but what goals can you set, that are 100% achievable and will move you, even slightly in the direction you want?

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Originally Posted by VIncymon View Post
I took a holiday because I need some R&R after the cancelled wedding. What I really want is to be more at peace with myself by the time I get back to work, whether or not I meet another woman during that time is inconsequential (I'm typing this to convince myself ).
I think that's a good idea, fundamentally, I mean you could just spend the time thinking about the above and chilling, what is your plan to get where you want to find a good woman (who actually deserves you), and how are you going to move in that direction in ways you and only you have complete control over? (this is actually quite hard hah).

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@SplendidBob Do you think, retrospectively, you should have dumped her?
If I had more confidence and truly believed I could find any woman if I wanted to then yes...
Any woman? Was she better than all the rest? Could you walk away from someone even with no other options?

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I would have dumped her when she cheated on me.
Am sorry to hear she cheated on you. Sorry this escaped my mind, I do remember now.

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Originally Posted by VIncymon View Post
In retrospect, there is nothing that I did to her that justified, that level of betrayal, and I should have had the balls to stand up to her back then, instead of letting her convince me that her cheating was due to my inadequacy...instead of it being due to her unfaithfulness.
Excellent. YES. This is the crucial lesson imo. The worst part there isn't even the cheating, its the passing of her weakness as your problem. People who don't take responsibility.. /rage. Also, from what you are saying here, I think you could reframe this as "she manipulated me into taking responsibility for her cheating". I don't think that is too strong at all, and I don't thin you are in any way to blame for staying with her.

But, I think it's wise to learn from these things .

Two follow up questions from this:

1. Was there an earlier point you thought about leaving, or retrospectively now you feel there were red flags you missed about her or the relationship?

2. Would you be feeling better or worse now had you left when she cheated? Would you feel you had more confidence had you left then, and would your self-esteem be higher now?

3. Was the relationship inevitably going to end once this had happened?

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Even if, I have enough confidence to ask out women more frequently now...I still have to work on not catastrophizing every time a woman tells me "no" as "more proof that Vincymon is incapable of generating sexual chemistry"
Yes. . It's something that I need to work on too.

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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-19-2021, 05:55 PM
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Also @VIncymon , the reason I am bringing this stuff up, is because I see myself in your reactions too, fwiw. I totally get it all.

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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-20-2021, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by SplendidBob View Post
Two follow up questions from this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SplendidBob View Post
1. Was there an earlier point you thought about leaving, or retrospectively now you feel there were red flags you missed about her or the relationship?

There were times that when she was angry it would show, like literally in front of other people. Then I would have to embarrassingly explain to whoever is around that its nothing much. I hated that. I am a very private person, and I truly don't believe in letting outsiders see when a couple has a disagreement. I hate seeing the stereotypical angry wife who embarrasses her husband in front of his family, and I hated experiencing it myself; Plus I think its just downright disrespectful. I cannot emphasise enough how much I hate being/feeling disrespected by someone who claims to be my love.

Respect is my top priority from the next woman I meet. Respect my time. Respect my values, respect the privacy of our relationship.


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2. Would you be feeling better or worse now had you left when she cheated? Would you feel you had more confidence had you left then, and would your self-esteem be higher now?

Well...let's see. If I had done that, then at least I would have been in control of the situation. I would have escaped her manipulation, and I wouldn't have reached this point now where she blows off the wedding and still tries to make me feel its my fault. Truthfully speaking, from the time she admitted cheating on me, I should have seen right then and there, that continuing on with the wedding proposal was a beta-male mistake.

One of the lessons I have to learn is to forgive myself. To forgive myself for allowing the manipulation to happen.
Even now, I still blame myself for being so gullible and weak.

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3. Was the relationship inevitably going to end once this had happened?
If I am true to myself. Yes. I accepted it because I rationalized it in my head that "life happens" and maybe its too much for me to expect my partner not to cheat. Everybody cheats, and maybe the only reason I had not cheated is because of SA. But that's rationalizing. infidelity is a perfectly reasonable reason to split, and I shouldn't be ashamed of holding myself to that standard.

After all, without boasting...I have had opportunities to cheat, where it was pretty obvious the girl was making a move on me...and I chose to do something else


And before you say that the above is proof that I am attractive and can easily get women...well this was in university, where meeting a woman was as simple as walking around the campus, as the saying goes, a man always appears more attractive when he is taken ...so yes, I have gotten flirted with many times whilst I was in a relationship ...funny how all that attention dries up once you become single again.


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Yes. . It's something that I need to work on too.
One of the fears I sometimes have is ...if I truly just focus on myself and stop trying to get a woman.....then won't the opportunities for romance just pass me by ? It's like the old saying goes "you miss 100% of the chances you don't take"

I mean, if I just stop asking women out...I'm not gonna get dates, because it doesn't happen the other way around ?

I can't make a woman love me. I cannot dictate the timeline to when I find a next woman marry and settle down. That's in God's hands.


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Originally Posted by SplendidBob View Post
how are you going to move in that direction in ways you and only you have complete control over? (this is actually quite hard hah).

What can I control then ?

Well, I can try to excel in my job and get promoted. I can continue exercising. I can continue to read various dating advice columns and videos. I can meditate and try to purge myself of negative feelings.

I can practise yoga and running and whatever else to help deal with the stress of being alone during the rest of the pandemic, and to help control negative self-talk.

I can always learn more about sex technique (even if I'm not getting any ) ...wow that was embarrassing to type.

I can practice yoga and running and whatever else to help deal with the stress of being alone, and to help control negative self-talk.


Am...what else is there ? Most of my hobbies are individual hobbies, and there are no communal activities due to covid so...(shrugs shoulder) so meeting someone new randomly, like it happens in the movies ? I don't see that happening....


PS....I'm not just selfishly syphoning off you....I do appreciate this conversation. I think it's really helping me...somehow...even if I don't see physical change in my life; ...yet.

When is a Door not a door ?
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