Are psychologists the most useless people in health care? - Page 3 - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #41 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 11:52 AM
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I'm in total, 100% agreement with you OP.

Had similar experiences with therapists from the teen years on. It's what made me study psychology - I was so disappointed and thought I could do better.

Basically, after intake/evaluation, they just sit there and listen, barely ask anything, barely explain anything. They've got the easiest job on earth. 45 minutes with a client, 15 minute break in between, repeat several times, call it a day. Show up late for appointment whenever they feel like it. Cancel on you all the time. They don't have to actually do anything, there is no metric for their success or failure. Talk about job security.

I would think after all the years in school to get their masters, which is required, they'd have learned something super useful to help people. Why spend over 4 years in school to sit in a chair and nod your head? Are they really that helpless, that useless?

Have I just gotten horrible ones all my life?
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post #42 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 08:03 PM
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I've seen several psychologists and they never told me anything I didn't already know. Their advice was useless for the most part anyway. I agree that they are way overpaid for what they do. Most cost $170 an hour or more. When you think about it, there's actually nothing they can do for your anxiety. Yet to be a psychologist requires over 8 years of university education. A psychiatrist can at least prescribe meds.
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post #43 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 12:28 AM
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Psychologists get a bad rap because of the nature of their work. They deal with complex problems such human behavior, mental health, social dynamics, learning and emotions. There aren't drugs to cure bad relationships or boost confidence for example.

The question becomes how do you deal with these problems effectively. If I'm having heart burn, I'll take some antacid. If I'm having allergies, I'll take some benedryl. If I'm having a cough, I'll take some cough syrup. What's the prescription to having anxiety in large groups on people in public? It's not going to be as simple as treating heart burn.

I'm making a big assumption and saying a lot of people want to cure their mental health problems, bad relationships, emotional problems the way you would treat a cough. The reality is that's not going to happen soon, or in our lifetime. Psychology has the burden of addressing these issues that we don't really know a whole lot about.

Neuroscience is at the frontier of giving these immediate, fast results. I think bio-hacking the mind and body is the next level of advancing human development. Until then, we're still trying to understand how the mind works and how to improve the human condition.

...

OR if New-age philosophy is right, we create our reality and choose to live in the world we subconsciously create. idk.

"Get some therapy"
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post #44 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 12:30 AM
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Mine helped me an awful lot, so no, they were pretty damn useful actually.

Your 100% in anything, even if you're not the best at it, is a success.
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post #45 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 04:15 AM
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Good ones are very, very hard to find. I've probably seen...over twenty?...ffs, I'm not even sure anymore. Aren't many good ones out there.
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post #46 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 04:48 AM
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The psychologist I have been to in my life have been okay, not perfect but they tried to help me by doing their job, that's all.
I was just too messed up myself to receive that help.
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post #47 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 05:49 AM
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I think psychiatrists are bigger quacks than psychologists........ simply because they pretend what they do is based on sound scientific reasoning when in reality it is based on big pharma marketing and guess work.

Psychiatrists hide behind a white coat which makes people believe they are getting something more than what they are. At least most people have a healthy dose of scepticism towards psychologists and counsellors.
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post #48 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 06:31 AM
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I think these guys :-

http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...-leader-review
http://www.rossinst.com/about_dr_colin_ross.html

are good psychotherapists, based upon my readings of their books - they seem to be willing to get to the heart of the matter, to really get down and see what is REALLY going wrong with the person, and REALISTICALLY what can be done to mitigate it. ie what virtually no modern day psy's are going to give to anybody, as all they care about is their own salaries and fees.

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Originally Posted by UKguy View Post
I think psychiatrists are bigger quacks than psychologists........ simply because they pretend what they do is based on sound scientific reasoning when in reality it is based on big pharma marketing
Yes - more $$$ again !!!

Just like NOT curing cancer makes $$$ - the actual cures oppressed !

eg.
Cancer: The Forbidden Cures :-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km2cqQNFtEs

and many more on YouTube.

Why would they want to CURE our mental disorders when they make $$$ from them by sitting on cosy expensive couches and chatting niceties and selling us extortionately over-priced pills?

People WAKE UP !!!!

I’m not buying what you’re selling OK?
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post #49 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JDsays View Post
I'm making a big assumption and saying a lot of people want to cure their mental health problems, bad relationships, emotional problems the way you would treat a cough. The reality is that's not going to happen soon, or in our lifetime. Psychology has the burden of addressing these issues that we don't really know a whole lot about.

Neuroscience is at the frontier of giving these immediate, fast results. I think bio-hacking the mind and body is the next level of advancing human development. Until then, we're still trying to understand how the mind works and how to improve the human condition.
I just read a book by a neuroscientis Joseph LeDoux, "Anxious: Using the Brain to Understand and Treat Fear and Anxiety". There's still more to be learned about the brain, but it confirmed why thinking and feeling related issues need to be approached differently (different brain regions are involved). Also, it provided possible explanations for the working of some very effective and efficient methods. Especailly the parts about memory extinction and reconsolidation (i.e. memory update) that can create change so that a certain stimulus won't trigger the fear response.

For those us not interested in waiting around few possibly years or decades, fortunately there are enough apporaches/methods around to explore. Meditation, relaxation, CBT, exposure and other common apporaches didn't work for me (after several years of "practice"). But as I explored further, I got "lucky" and eventually found something that did.

I wrote about those here: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/...esn-t-1617410/

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OR if New-age philosophy is right, we create our reality and choose to live in the world we subconsciously create. idk.
I don't think it's such a simple choice. The subconscious has a lot of power. However, with the right approach, we may be able to influence certain aspects and get different results.
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post #50 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 01:18 AM
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I think psychologists have the hardest jobs. They are underappreciated and not taken seriously. I mean do you expect an anxious, irrational patient thinking their psychologist helps when they are so absorbed in their thoughts, prolly not gonna happen. I think some can do better but at the same time, it's not an easy job. It's like listening to people moan and ***** about their lives 24/7 and eventually you might develop negativity from that. It probably wears them down eventually. ANd you probably get some unstable patients who are inappropriate, angry at you, or even dangerous. I've heard of people burning down their therapist's homes and keying their cars before. It's ridiculous.
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post #51 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by meepie View Post
I think psychologists have the hardest jobs. They are underappreciated and not taken seriously. I mean do you expect an anxious, irrational patient thinking their psychologist helps when they are so absorbed in their thoughts, prolly not gonna happen. I think some can do better but at the same time, it's not an easy job. It's like listening to people moan and ***** about their lives 24/7 and eventually you might develop negativity from that. It probably wears them down eventually. ANd you probably get some unstable patients who are inappropriate, angry at you, or even dangerous. I've heard of people burning down their therapist's homes and keying their cars before. It's ridiculous.
Good post Meepie.

I have occasionally been delusional enough to think that I would like to be a therapist. Fortunately I have always come to my senses in time.

Can you imagine actually sitting there and listening to this stuff for 8 hours a day? Holy Crap - I'd want to shoot myself.

I know it's hard to find a good one. But after reading many of the posts on this forum I think they should be payed a lot more than they are. Just for being able to take it.

Poor *******s.
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post #52 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 05:46 AM
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Some people are helped, and that's obviously great. Some people aren't and that's not good. Some people are even hurt, and that's clearly a bad thing.
It's like with medication in a way really. It helps some people, but others it gives too big side-effects.
I haven't had much result from either though.
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post #53 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 05:58 AM
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Well, given my experiences with the for-profit sort of professional... yeah. I don't like it. And I realize even the government-paid ones are a little sketchy.

Too many bad experiences. But I sure am glad someone's mental problems amount to *****ing and moaning to you guys.

Yeah, so no wonder people view us like they do. Even with degrees.

Would you say I deserved it? Even though I hesitate to tell anyone anything? With good reason, obviously!

Here's to life, the vice
The great herald of misery
In this cup, spiritus frumenti
For this is the nectar of the spirit
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post #54 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 11:15 AM
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Good post Meepie.

I have occasionally been delusional enough to think that I would like to be a therapist. Fortunately I have always come to my senses in time.

Can you imagine actually sitting there and listening to this stuff for 8 hours a day? Holy Crap - I'd want to shoot myself.

I know it's hard to find a good one. But after reading many of the posts on this forum I think they should be payed a lot more than they are. Just for being able to take it.

Poor *******s.
Seriously, at the end of the day they are humans too. Sometimes it's also great to get to know your therapist, not you just talk all the time .

There is a thing called therapist burnout and it talks about the dangers of how it affects the therapist's own life:

to self:http://www.zurinstitute.com/burnout....sychotherapist
to family/children:http://www.zurinstitute.com/burnout.html#tofamily

It talks about how it affects a therapist's family and personal life. I honestly think being a therapist is one of the most honorable and wonderful jobs out there, but you can't expect them to be perfect.

And to the person above, complaining about your life is like *****ing and moaning. It's an idiom for that, look it up in the dictionary. If you have mental health issues you will complain about your life and be unhappy with it, you're taking too much offense and reading into my post too much. There is nothing wrong with doing that in a therapist office but I'm talking from the therapist perspective, that is what it will seem like to them when they burn out.
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post #55 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 11:15 AM
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I think these guys :-

Why would they want to CURE our mental disorders when they make $$$ from them by sitting on cosy expensive couches and chatting niceties and selling us extortionately over-priced pills?

People WAKE UP !!!!
Really good point. In my experience though a good psychotherapist will set up a X amount of weeks / months to deal with a certain problem.

But really, it's up the person going into psychotherapy how long they want to keep doing the therapy.

"Get some therapy"
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post #56 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 11:25 AM
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Psychiatrists make money because they are MDs who can prescribe medication, but therapists don't. Just a heads up. The average mental health professional isn't rolling in dough.

That being said, I'm off to head to my wonderful therapist who at the least listens to me complain about my life and offer me a lot of empathy and wonderful resources, while her 25 year old daughter has died in a car crash. So not useless, and she will not fit this generalization.
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post #57 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by meepie View Post
Seriously, at the end of the day they are humans too. Sometimes it's also great to get to know your therapist, not you just talk all the time .

There is a thing called therapist burnout and it talks about the dangers of how it affects the therapist's own life:

to self:http://www.zurinstitute.com/burnout....sychotherapist
to family/children:http://www.zurinstitute.com/burnout.html#tofamily

It talks about how it affects a therapist's family and personal life. I honestly think being a therapist is one of the most honorable and wonderful jobs out there, but you can't expect them to be perfect.

And to the person above, complaining about your life is like *****ing and moaning. It's an idiom for that, look it up in the dictionary. If you have mental health issues you will complain about your life and be unhappy with it, you're taking too much offense and reading into my post too much. There is nothing wrong with doing that in a therapist office but I'm talking from the therapist perspective, that is what it will seem like to them when they burn out.
Person?

I really don't know what you mean anyway.

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post #58 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 10:17 PM
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It's kind of funny you mention this. Sometimes psychologists can't look into your mind, but at the same time, they do have to use psychobabble. It kind of fits the job. Lots of times, I suppose because quietness on the patient's part, they won't see a pressing matter or if they do, they might try to solve it for you. Or not solve it at all. It's a delicate balance, for sure.

Anyway, what I really wanted to mention is that I'm seeing a new psychologist who, well-meaningly asked whether I preferred he talk a lot or a little. When I circled "a lot" on the sheet, he then proceeded to dominate the conversation. I couldn't get in a peep. I was listening to him! I guess psychologists are funny like that. You're a subject, a case, a "human" but yet its not entirely professional to advise or inject personal opinion which a lot of people will respond to sometimes in a good way. :/

Ok. So you're depressed. I need to find out your history, family, name, number, assume it has affected you or make a conclusion and voilà, I've figured it out. You're depressed.

Edit: perhaps I should see a prison psychologist. They could probably diffuse a situation pretty quickly. That is, the situation up here (points to head).
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post #59 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-13-2015, 03:28 AM
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I want your opinions.
I have been to various different therapists over the years and I always made the same experience that basically they were ABSOLUTELY useless. The "advice" they gave if I may even call it so were so absolutely shallow and banal that basically ANY human could have given them. Some advice were okay but really NOTHING special at all. I could as well have talked to a drunk guy in a pub he might have said exactly the same things.
I was always wondering WHERE EXACTLY is the great psychological wisdom? When are they going to tell me something really profound? It never came. I seriously ask myself what do these people go to the university for? What do they learn there when the stuff which comes out of their mouths is simply gibberish?

I think psychologists are absolutely over-paid and useless. They make way too much money simply sitting on their asses and saying a few trivial things every now on then.
You have to get lucky I'd say. It depends what kind of "therapist" you mean and if they're qualified or not. I got an excellent therapist for about a year, really knew his stuff and was one of the nicest people I've ever met. I've had another one who was really good too, but he was more of a counselor type of guy.

Both of these guys had a lot of experience themselves which I think is the key here - they both had drug/alcohol addictions in the past and know what it's like to be depressed etc. They really cared about getting you better.

Then again I've had ones who literally didn't do any "therapy" - one actually just talked to me about house prices and what I was going to do in the future? It was supposed to be CBT - what? lol
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post #60 of 122 (permalink) Old 11-22-2015, 06:36 AM
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Cracked: Why Psychiatry is Doing More Harm Than Good, James Davies

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cracked-Psyc...J50NZV0F3XGW16


The Myth of Mental Illness, Thomas S. Szasz

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Myth-Men...Y3ANG7WXXKHVXA

I’m not buying what you’re selling OK?
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