Are psychologists the most useless people in health care? - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #1 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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Are psychologists the most useless people in health care?


I want your opinions.
I have been to various different therapists over the years and I always made the same experience that basically they were ABSOLUTELY useless. The "advice" they gave if I may even call it so were so absolutely shallow and banal that basically ANY human could have given them. Some advice were okay but really NOTHING special at all. I could as well have talked to a drunk guy in a pub he might have said exactly the same things.
I was always wondering WHERE EXACTLY is the great psychological wisdom? When are they going to tell me something really profound? It never came. I seriously ask myself what do these people go to the university for? What do they learn there when the stuff which comes out of their mouths is simply gibberish?

I think psychologists are absolutely over-paid and useless. They make way too much money simply sitting on their asses and saying a few trivial things every now on then.

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post #2 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
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I really hate them. Even making this thread already makes my blood boil again.

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post #3 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 10:22 PM
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Talk therapy is more about getting you to open up and think about your feelings, why you have them, etc. The psychologist is just there to facilitate that process and guide you through proven treatment methods. If you are going to experience anything "profound", it would be a revelation that comes from within -- it's not going to come from your psychologist.

If nothing else, I'd suggest expressing these thoughts in your next appointment. That's a key in psychology: Let everything out - don't hold back.


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post #4 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 10:26 PM Thread Starter
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Yes I know this stuff. But to me it's like a free ticket for the therapist. After all he is just there to "guide". LOL!
Basically he cannot do any mistakes. He can just sit there and drop a few comments every 5 minutes. This has go to be the
best job in the universe. They get paid for basically doing nothing.

If I have problems and I cannot solve them then I expect a therapist to either drop something profound on me or to admit that he's
absolutely useless. Then I can at least save time and money. But they won't do this. They will leech as long as possible and stall you
until you finally find out that he sucks but then he will simply find a new patient. It's really sad.

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post #5 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 10:47 PM
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My psychiatrist was. But i guess all of them are mostly useless.
Actually all of doctors are useless. They can't even cure a cold if you think about it. There are only treatments, which depending on how your body responds to them might be usefull(with a lot of side effects of course). But most of the time there is no cure.

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post #6 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 10:49 PM
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My experience is that good shrinks are few and far between.
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post #7 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 11:04 PM
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For a lot of people, it's hard to come across a good therapist. All of my psychologists were great, but I had one psychiatrist that I gradually became uncomfortable around. He would get offended over things I would say even if they weren't directed towards him, and he prescribed me medications that made me physically ill as if he wasn't well-informed. I felt like he was randomly throwing different medications at me without careful consideration. Even my dad got pissed off at this guy and ended up calling him on the phone to demand that I get taken off of my meds, but my dad couldn't do anything about it because I was already a legal adult by then.
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post #8 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-05-2015, 06:53 PM
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There are probably some (or even many) who have nothing but the best intentions (the best possible under the circumstances, I mean) but I think a lot of these people are highly manipulative and are more screwed up in the head than 99% of the people they are supposedly helping.

Think of it this way. It's not even debatable that human beings are inherently selfish creatures. With that out of the way, what motivates a person with higher than average intelligence to want to go into a field that gives them a blank check for messing around with other people's minds?

"Useless" is a pretty subjective term. I would imagine they're all extremely useful to someone. Just not always to their patients.
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post #9 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-11-2015, 12:23 AM
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My psychiatrist is a lot better than therapists.
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post #10 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 12:02 AM
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I'm sure many psychologists go to a psychologist too. They want to help themselves in order to give help to clients. A psychology professor I had goes to her own psychologist. I think those who become psychologists are very curious about the mental lives of people or have personally dealt with psychological problems in their life before they went into the education.

And yes, as a poster above mentioned there are psychologists out there who are manipulative. They are people too. With complex brains. I hope all of them mean well, but I know not all.
It just brings back memories of shrinks who took advantage of clients that I read and watched about, it is awful.
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post #11 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 01:57 AM
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I think you haven't found a good one yet. Pretty much anybody can go obtain a psychology degree as it's not that hard and universities want your money, but since the job market has become saturated it's getting competitive and now often relies on further study, extracurricular activities, research and luck to get a clinical psych job. Also I've found that a lot of psychologists (and psychiatrists) have mental health issues themselves, hence their interest in going into it. There's no great psychological wisdom (yet), most of them are just humans who went to university.
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post #12 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 01:59 AM
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yeah other real scientists have definate methods for plenty of things, rather than just mayeb
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post #13 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 08:00 AM
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Psychologists (I assume you mean counseling people in general) are training in psychotherapeutic approaches to treat personal problems. Those approaches have high-quality evidence of working. That doesn't mean that every counselor you see will be a home run. They vary in quality, or may not have a style that matches yours.

I have observed that men in general appreciate a very directive approach. We often dislike reflective counseling because we value "advice", which is why we are so eager to give advice to others on how to "fix it". Just ask women! (Yes I'm stereotyping.) It helps to find a counselor who has a direct approach and basically lays it out as, "you need to do X,Y,Z to get better".

Keep in mind counselors don't like to do this much because if it doesn't work, it can be interpreted as "poor advice" even if it wasn't really. And the client doesn't have the chance to discover it him/herself, which is much more powerful.

When interviewing (or emailing), ask what their counseling style is - if they tend to be more reflective or more instructing since there is a range of possibilities. They will probably be able to tell you where they lay on that spectrum. Be direct and honest about the approach that you want. You might also ask about doing a guidebook as part of the therapy, which is as directive as it gets.

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post #14 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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I wish I had a psychologist who would simply give some real advice like if I were you I would do this. But they never do this.
These jerks rather like to just sit on their asses and "listen" and then maybe ask a few questions. How in the world is this ****
supposed to help anyone with real problems? They are so overpaid and useless. It's so sad that there are still enough messed up
people out there so that they always have enough patients coming in.
Psychologist can do whatever they want and nobody can prove that they made a mistake or can sue them. They can always simply
say the patient was too messed up to be helped.

Has a psychologist ever told you something profound where you thought wow this is deep? The stuff they told me was always so shallow
that it could as well have come from somebody who never saw a university from the inside.

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post #15 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 01:46 PM
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Angry

Been thinking this way for years.


A new addition to the outer family achieved a "1st" in the P ology field. Sycho
They think they're clever. Science + arts... Humanities. She got straight into 1st job with a big hated recruiter firm I hate.

Then next job... Big pharmaceutical firm. Big executive position. Team building. No-brainers.
I see the evil psychologists as grande mind bullying terrorists - extraverted shouters or softies... Talktalk. Nothing happens in their microworld. Voice only. No hands-on. Expert overseer of 'How Are YOU?' all mummytalk from womb to nursery, kinderkarten, then bullying... Becoming an MSc

I'd say: all humans classified in sections /pigeonholes. Loser, criminal, poverty, 3rd world, beggars, with n or x friends... Turnover, credit, liability

Advert designers. Fake happiness of new shiny cars, soap bubbles

Mind manipulation. Any sort of sales glued to me at school age. TV. Newspaper adverts. Door to door. Phone telemarketing. What disappoints me that vulcan mind melding doesn't seem to happen, at fingertip. All words. Giggling. I clock known friends, mum & daughter in same field. This thread makes me want to try popping into local humanities lectures to learn about it. Either powerful techniques? Or the pathetic I'd assume.
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post #16 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 01:48 PM
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A therapist is most useful when your problems are on the dyer side. If you're a danger to yourself and others or you have a condition that is severely debilitating. Not dismissing SAD etc.

It's still a long process that takes several sessions, and you might see another specialist down the line. If you don't have insurance coverage, you can tie a lot of money just to confide to someone. In some cases you can qualify for public assistance programs that cover therapy if you need it.

I think is a sad aspect about our current generation. We all seem so suspicious of each other to be more open. Particularly when it comes to the kids growing up today, there seems to be nothing in the way of mentors or people are just too afraid to be accused of being a molester or some crap. Not sure how anyone can grow to be a functional adult when they spent their formative years insular and sheltered.
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post #17 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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You know what I'd like to see a smart *** psychologist who becomes really miserable by having some real problems and then
finding out that his whole smart *** **** is worth crap.

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post #18 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 02:02 PM
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No. Psychologists are not the most useless people in healthcare.

If you pick up any literature on guidance and counseling or therapy, one of the first things you will learn is that the therapist's job is not to be your friend, not to be an advice-giver, or a teacher - as someone has stated before, they are facilitators. They do not give advice because of the risk of their client only leaning on them for more advice in the future to help with their problems. A good, experienced, and useful therapist will give their client mental tools to combat and challenge whatever internal issues they have so they can be happier and mentally healthier and stronger for an entire lifetime. Having mental tools and learning strong skills you never had, is not the same as getting advice. On top of this, the therapist is supposed to guide you into learning these new abilities.

It is notoriously hard to get into, and succeed in clinical psychology. There are many levels of expertise out there: counselors deal with people with adjustment problems, marriage issues, and maybe some life difficulties but they are basically trained to treat and help those with less severe disorders and problems. The minimum schooling to be a counselor includes six years of education and two years of grad school, and if you are looking to be even more involved in health care and be a licensed psychologist, look forward to many more years in grad school and one hell of a time trying to get a job.

That might have been off topic but think about this. If you have a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist in the chair in front of you, they are likely in debt. Mental health workers are very underpaid. If I were to get a masters in the next few years as I'm planning (and actually land a job) I would only make about 27,000 a year, tops. I am from southern Arkansas and the debt I would have to pay back would be massive and I wonder if it would ever get paid off with that kind of salary. This is how it is for many people in the field. Most of us don't go into it for the money. And with the extreme competition there is in psychiatry and clinical psychology, I would think that the academic curriculum is difficult enough that anyone who was just "going into it for the money because it pays better" would probably drop out of the program once they interned and got a real taste of how serious and hard it is to be a therapist. Plus they are paying six figures to go through the education so they can achieve one goal: to listen to those in need, like you, for an hour.

Therapists must go through extremely rigorous training and internships and learn how this all works. Yeah, there are some god awful therapists out there that have no ****ing clue what they're doing and couldn't give a **** about who they are treating, but, I think it is more likely that you have not found the right therapist. You must feel a bond with them as they with you. Do they specialize in whatever issues you are dealing with? Are they a counselor or a therapist? Are their preferred methods of therapy cognitive behavioral or are they more cognitively based? Talking about thoughts is one thing but the therapist must make sure that you are PROGRESSING.

But therapy does work. It takes time and dedication from both sides, the right therapist, the right medication if needed, and the right kind of therapy. This is something that is not an easy job to do. When I was in therapy, very briefly at a clinic in Pine Bluff, there were plenty of inmates coming in and lead into some heavy looking metal doors with screens on them and locked. Soon after this gun shots went off and we evacuated the building. One of my friends, who is a counselor for adolescents, has had a gun on her pulled twice during therapy. One of my professors in college, a forensic psychologist but also a licensed therapist, has tried to treat those with Borderline Personality Disorders and has had files of blood crushed on him and hidden needles poked into him, not to mention the brawls he's had to go through and the scars to show it.

Sorry if I went on too long. Don't give up trying to find help, there's lots of therapists and counselors who want to help you. No one deserves to suffer from mental health issues without proper care.
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post #19 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 02:15 PM
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I was accepted into a master's program and my biggest desire in life is to help people and give them a chance. I have endured sexual abuse in my childhood by my cousins, I've been through the depths of benzodiazepine and opiate addiction and other addictions, I have been neglected, I have given up my life to help my autistic brother when I finally become independent. I battle severe social anxiety to the point where life feels like nothing. I have never shopped in a grocery store by myself, I haven't made friends since high school, I have had three contacts on my phone for years: my mom, dad, and brother. They divorced because of my bro when I was five, and I was totally pushed into the background when I was growing up because all my parent's effort went into taking care of my bro. We were very poor and never had air conditioning, our rented houses were infested with mice and bug infestations and we usually didn't have any insurance or much to eat, that I remember. I have given up the idea of ever getting married, having kids, or moving out of state so I can take care of my brother. I have had a disfigured jaw since I was a kid and did braces for ten years and I have to have all my teeth pulled anyway because they are rotting from the malnutrition I had when I was younger. All I do is worry but I have an insane need to take care of others and I don't care what I am paid or how much school costs, I know I need to be out there helping others so they do not find themselves in the same **** I did growing up.

The mental health care system is ****ing terrible. But nothing will change unless you get into it yourself and make a difference. Hopefully I will and the massive debt I pile up won't bother me, and I hope I just get a job when I get out.

But like I said before keep trying to find help. There's something for you out there. Maybe even a non traditional "therapist" can help you. Pastors are a good start (if you're religious... I was an atheist growing up so This wasn't comfortable for me) and then of course there are forums like these that can help, hotlines, and some therapists will even do their work for free if you are struggling. It's been the case for me here where people are especially poor and can't pay $100 an hour. Which does not go directly into the therapists paycheck.
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post #20 of 122 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 10:37 PM
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From my experience, yes. They just pretend they care, while giving generic "advice". I'm actually jealous: these people are paid for doing nothing.

In general, rather than self-discovery, searching for faults in others is much more fun.
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