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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-21-2016, 05:32 PM Thread Starter
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The Bible... Religion...


I cannot understand the Bible or organised religion. I just can't. They are detrimental to society. I believe in God, in the afterlife, and in kindness and being accepting of others.

Why is religion so dark? Why does the Bible tell me that God is angry, has a bad temper and sends innocent people to hell?

Jesus had a beautiful message and it's just been [email protected] on, really.

How do I understand the Bible? How can I beliave what it says? How can it be used for good instead of evil? Why would I wish to follow a religion that tells me I'm going to hell?

Christians twist things from the Bible to their own convenience.
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-21-2016, 05:47 PM
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I cannot understand the Bible or organised religion. I just can't. They are detrimental to society. I believe in God, in the afterlife, and in kindness and being accepting of others.

Why is religion so dark? Why does the Bible tell me that God is angry, has a bad temper and sends innocent people to hell?

Jesus had a beautiful message and it's just been [email protected] on, really.

How do I understand the Bible? How can I beliave what it says? How can it be used for good instead of evil? Why would I wish to follow a religion that tells me I'm going to hell?

Christians twist things from the Bible to their own convenience.
Secular nations are not better than Sharia and the church.

Religions is not dark. Its you people that want it to be dark. Igoring all the good stuff and just seing the bad stuff, you can do the same with secularism.

Again, you only cherrypick. God is not angry all the time, sometimes he punish people sometimes he does not. You cannot judge god like you judge a human. The funny thing is that you are not against the police to punish people....but god can not??

innocents to hell? Where does it say that.

well hello, according to christiantiy jesus IS god.

you understand bible by study it.

all religions have "hell" in some kind of way....nobody tells you to follow christianity, choose what you want.

everbody twist things to their own needs,
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-21-2016, 06:06 PM
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Friend, you have good questions that many people ask. There is no confusion in The Bible because God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33). God did not invent religion, because religion sets rules but Christ sets you free. Yes God does get angry friend, but He's also love, kind, just, holy and the righteous judge of the world. He doesn't send people to hell for no reason or because they don't know Him. God sends sinners to hell for breaking His holy Law the Ten Commandments. Those who reject the free gift of eternal life which is in Christ only will spend eternity in hell. But that is not God's will for people to go to hell for eternity. He wants every one to be saved from hell (2 Peter 3:9). There is nothing evil about God's Word, because God is truth. When you hear people say that The Bible is false, evil, full of fairy tales, it is coming from the enemy (Satan). Jesus Christ came into the world to die for sinners like you and me on the cross. He was crucified, buried, and rose from the dead on the third day. The word of God says that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). That includes you and me. As a sinner you owe a penalty for breaking God's law the Ten Commandments, and that punishment is eternity in hell. Since God is the righteous judge of the world and will judge the world in righteousness and in truth. He has to do what is right and that punishment is eternity in hell. But their is good news my friend, Jesus Christ paid your fine in full on the cross by shedding His innocent blood. If you will come to Jesus Christ by faith and accept Him as your personal Savior, you will have the free gift of eternal life. You will then come into a relationship with God, which He so much desires with you and not a religion. But you must come on God's terms, not yours. Feel free to message me, if you have any questions.

Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-21-2016, 06:54 PM
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I cannot understand the Bible or organised religion. I just can't. They are detrimental to society. I believe in God, in the afterlife, and in kindness and being accepting of others.

Why is religion so dark? Why does the Bible tell me that God is angry, has a bad temper and sends innocent people to hell?

Jesus had a beautiful message and it's just been [email protected] on, really.

How do I understand the Bible? How can I beliave what it says? How can it be used for good instead of evil? Why would I wish to follow a religion that tells me I'm going to hell?

Christians twist things from the Bible to their own convenience.
Bible and organized religion are two very different things. When you talk about organized religion, there is no question in how to interpret what a given church teaches on its pamphlets, you know exactly what it teaches if you know how to read. In case of the Bible there are tons of different interpretations, which is why we have so many different denominations all claiming to be Bible based. So to me Bible is much closer to an interesting research (be it a research into mind of God or research into archaeological documets -- depending on your faith) but not anything organized at all. Oh by the way I know that liberals are using this as an excuse to be liberal. I disagree with this (I am conservative FYI) I think the fact that Bible is an interesting archaeological research should be utilized for the purposes of objective theorizing as opposed to promoting liberal agenda.
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-21-2016, 09:09 PM
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Because people read it literally and think it's inerrant. People need to drop those ideas and read it within the context of the modern world/ethics/science. That's why we still have people who are anti-homosexuality. Science shows us that it's just another normal part of human nature. People are too afraid to look at the text and say "Okay, they got it wrong/" and admit that it was written by fallible men. Something that I find odd about Protestants as they have no problem denying church/papal authority, but are perfectly fine with sola scriptura. Martin Luther came 1500 years after early Christianity. They have no problem accepting that the church wasn't infallible (something that was standard Christian belief prior to the Reformation) but still attach themselves to the idea of an infallible text. An idea that spawned countless different denominations I might add.

People are just too afraid that they'll go to hell if they question the bible/God. An infinitely more knowledgeable being than us very faulty humans, is going to know more about the human condition than we could possibly imagine. Do people honestly think he'll really send people to hell for belief in a false proposition? And not only that, a false belief that is a product of environment and other factors, something that people have no control over. Something that even a child would see as obviously unjust. Once people realize this is absurd, they'll finally wake up.
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 04:41 AM
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I`ve always wondered how many of the, and lets face it, ridiculous stories in the bible that religious people believe - arks, whales, snakes, creation - which ones are deemed to be metaphor's etc and which ones are supposed to be true ? do true ones become metaphors once it becomes so ridiculous to believe no one would take you seriously ?
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 08:05 AM
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Idk I do believe in the bible but the interpretation is the tough part.

~ How can I build Your kingdom if I'm building my own
How can You be my treasure if I'm digging for gold
How can You be my fire if my heart has grown cold
How can You be my future if I've made this my home ~ Love & the Outcome
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 11:56 AM
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Hello @RestlessNative . http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/...wrong-1907794/ Please check out my thread.

Now the Bible says God is a loving God. But how can you love someone if you send them to a place of torment? If you saw a father doing extreme punishment to his son for something, would you like that person? Would you care if they didnt like you back? Let's examine what Hell is.

Encyclopedias - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - Hell
HELL
hel (see SHEOL; HADES; GEHENNA)

3. Gehenna:

Besides the above uses, and more in accordance with the modern meaning, the word "hell" is used in the New Testament in the King James Version as the equivalent of Gehenna (12 t;*Matthew 5:22,29;*10:28, etc.)

The original Greek word for Hell is Gehenna. Gehenna comes from Hebrew word meaning Geh Hinnom. Meaning Valley of Hinnom. The Valley of Hinnom is right outside Jerusalem. It was used by Israelite kings to do children sacrifice.

31"They have built*the high*places*of Topheth,which*is in the valley*of the son*of Hinnom,*to burn*their sons*and their daughters*in the fire,which*I did not command,*and it did not come into My mind.*
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 11:58 AM
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The following scripture tells what happens after Armageddon. Every dead person will come out of their tomb stone to live again. (even the good people! But how could they do this if when people die they're resurrected to heaven? But I won't go over that, it's a different topic) Evil people are given a second chance here. If they don't change they go back to dust again. This is the second death.

25*Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear*the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.*26*For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life*in himself.*27*And he has given him authority to judge*because he is the Son of Man.
28*“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming*when all who are in their graves will hear his voice*29*and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

BTW if Jesus was God how could the Father grant him life and have to be given authority over something?
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 12:30 PM
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The Bible might be fake. Its packed with violence, etc, and the way it was written, it seems like it was written by some ancient, primitive people trying to control their society by introducing "divinely ordained" morals and laws. I've always been a Christian but some of the verses really have me doubting the Bible's authenticity. Im sure theres probably a God or Intelligent Designer/s though.
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ljubo View Post
Secular nations are not better than Sharia and the church.

Religions is not dark. Its you people that want it to be dark. Igoring all the good stuff and just seing the bad stuff, you can do the same with secularism.

Again, you only cherrypick. God is not angry all the time, sometimes he punish people sometimes he does not. You cannot judge god like you judge a human. The funny thing is that you are not against the police to punish people....but god can not??

innocents to hell? Where does it say that.

well hello, according to christiantiy jesus IS god.

you understand bible by study it.

all religions have "hell" in some kind of way....nobody tells you to follow christianity, choose what you want.

everbody twist things to their own needs,
Its a little hard to ignore verses in the bible where it says you can beat the **** out of your slaves and get away with it. And then it says for slaves to obey their masters with fear. The verses also lean towards supporting inequality of gender and social statuses. All this and more suggests that the writers of the bible were ancient, primitive-minded people trying to control their society, rather than a loving, perfect God.
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 01:27 PM
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There is no confusion in The Bible because God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33).
I think the latter could be true. But even going by a traditional view of the Bible, you still have to accept that you're reading a collection of various books written by at least a dozen or so different authors, who were sometimes centuries apart.

There's definitely some confusion when one compares the God of Jonah who stresses the innocence of animals and those who "cannot tell their right hand from their left" with the God of Samuel who orders the death of every last Amalekite, including the infants and creatures who are supposed to be innocent...
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 03:57 PM
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The Bible might be fake. Its packed with violence, etc, and the way it was written, it seems like it was written by some ancient, primitive people trying to control their society by introducing "divinely ordained" morals and laws. I've always been a Christian but some of the verses really have me doubting the Bible's authenticity. Im sure theres probably a God or Intelligent Designer/s though.
Slavery was something already set in law of those ancient civilizations. God did set some laws on it where owners couldn't beat thier slaves to death, but he didn't interfere with it. If you remember after he turned away Adam and Eve, Satan said humans should be able to rule over themselves.

Don't doubt the authenticity doubt the teachers. How could Jesus have been the first creation and God? If Jesus and the Father are the same person why did Jesus have to be given authority over the angels? Why does the Father have to grant him life? How does any of this make sense when the Catholic church says they are the same person?
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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Those with thoughtful replies, thank you very much for taking the time. I have read all your commets but don't have the time to reply to you all seperately.

I might ramble a bit and I'm tired and stressed at the moment so bear with me.

I know a lot of Christians mean well but it's just completely impossible for me to believe in some of the things you say. It goes against every fibre of my being to be a 'conservative' Christian.

I mean, if I had to explain where my beliefs were at I'd have to say I'm left-wing. I feel that in some ways society is decaying but in many, many ways it is improving. This is because people are becoming more accepting of difference, within race, gender, religion, sexuality, etc.
I suffer from depression but consider myself an optimist. And I'm a very positive person most of the time, and to take on what Christianity is telling me to would take that from me.

My mum and dad divorced when I was very young and I grew up with my mum, so I'm influenced by her beliefs more so than my dad's. My dad grew up in a Catholic family and has a lot of the black and white views from that, and my mum and her mum (my nanna) have always been very open minded and spiritual and loving which I feel was a much more healthy influence.

I guess what makes sense to me is that I do not believe in discrimination, and will accept anybody's beliefs so long as they do not condone violence, discrimination within race, gender, etc., hatred, all that.

I don't feel that I should have to try to 'convert' people into religious conservatives. Life is a personal journey and I'll just focus on mine. What I believe is important to me and is harmless to others.
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 04:44 PM
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Slavery was something already set in law of those ancient civilizations. God did set some laws on it where owners couldn't beat thier slaves to death, but he didn't interfere with it. If you remember after he turned away Adam and Eve, Satan said humans should be able to rule over themselves.

Don't doubt the authenticity doubt the teachers. How could Jesus have been the first creation and God? If Jesus and the Father are the same person why did Jesus have to be given authority over the angels? Why does the Father have to grant him life? How does any of this make sense when the Catholic church says they are the same person?
God(his views, morals and laws) has been the same, is the same, and will always be the same. The bible states my previous sentence as a description of God's character. Then why is God smiling upon us nowadays and leading us to righteousness and telling us to love people, when in the past, he was content with people beating their slaves, selling their daughters, killing infants, etc?

I doubt the writers. I doubt whether the scriptures are the divinely ordained commandments of God or if the Bible was written by people. Jesus being the Son of God doesnt exactly make much sense either...



I mean, come on, two people eating a fruit which brings evil into the world? That sounds like some kind of ancient myth or something. It is so obviously not inspired by God. I do believe that a God might exist, though.
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 05:33 PM
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@sad1231234 The Bible is Gods word, but he used man to write it.

16*All Scripture is God-breathed*and is useful for teaching,rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Isaiah learned from God that a man named Cyrus would overthrow Babylon.

45*“This is what the*Lord*says to his anointed,
****to Cyrus,*whose right hand I take hold*of to subdue nations*before him*and to strip kings of their armor,to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut:
2*I will go before you*and will level*the mountains[a];I will break down gates*of bronze
****and cut through bars of iron.3*I will give you hidden treasures,*riches stored in secret places,so that you may know*that I am the*Lord*the God of Israel, who summons you by name.

And guess what, 200 years later it happened.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Babylon


Before people were able to photograph the earth many believed the earth was flat, or was held by a ox. But the Bible said different, and how could the writers have known it if God didn't tell them?

7*He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
22*He sits enthroned*above the circle of the earth,and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens*like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent*to live in.

The Earth hangs upon nothing and is a circle.
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 08:33 PM
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Secular nations are not better than Sharia and the church.
Secularism allows freedom of belief. How is it not better than Sharia law?

Quote:
Religions is not dark. Its you people that want it to be dark. Igoring all the good stuff and just seing the bad stuff
If something has bad and good things at the same time then it's definitely neither black nor white, right?

Quote:
Again, you only cherrypick. God is not angry all the time, sometimes he punish people sometimes he does not. You cannot judge god like you judge a human. The funny thing is that you are not against the police to punish people....but god can not??
Except the police is under the State and it must give explanations when something goes wrong.

Quote:
everbody twist things to their own needs
That's why debate is necessary

When one person suffers from a delusion it's called insanity.
When many people suffer from a delusion it's called a Religion.
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 11:43 AM
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I think the latter could be true. But even going by a traditional view of the Bible, you still have to accept that you're reading a collection of various books written by at least a dozen or so different authors, who were sometimes centuries apart.

There's definitely some confusion when one compares the God of Jonah who stresses the innocence of animals and those who "cannot tell their right hand from their left" with the God of Samuel who orders the death of every last Amalekite, including the infants and creatures who are supposed to be innocent...
God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He is the same God in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. God knows what is right, we don't tell Him what's right because He knows best. Friend, The Bible was not written by mere men, it is no private interpretation. The Holy Ghost inspired 40 different authors to write down God's word. The Bible is the world's history book.

Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 01:20 PM
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"The Bible is the world's history book"

The animals went in two by two, hurrah! hurrah! The elephant and the kangaroo...
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 03:25 PM
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@sad1231234 The Bible is Gods word, but he used man to write it.

16*All Scripture is God-breathed*and is useful for teaching,rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Isaiah learned from God that a man named Cyrus would overthrow Babylon.

45*?This is what the*Lord*says to his anointed,
****to Cyrus,*whose right hand I take hold*of to subdue nations*before him*and to strip kings of their armor,to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut:
2*I will go before you*and will level*the mountains[a];I will break down gates*of bronze
****and cut through bars of iron.3*I will give you hidden treasures,*riches stored in secret places,so that you may know*that I am the*Lord*the God of Israel, who summons you by name.

And guess what, 200 years later it happened.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Babylon


Before people were able to photograph the earth many believed the earth was flat, or was held by a ox. But the Bible said different, and how could the writers have known it if God didn't tell them?

7*He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
22*He sits enthroned*above the circle of the earth,and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens*like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent*to live in.

The Earth hangs upon nothing and is a circle.
Slavery wasnt the only law set in ancient times. So was idol worship. It is ridiculous to support slavery. I refuse to believe in a religion which allows people to sell their daughters as slaves, marry their rape victims, and beat their slaves to death only to pay a small fine of about 30 shekels(God really respects human beings)

Try looking at the bible prophecies which didnt come true. The ancient greeks later on believed that the world was round, and God didnt tell them. Also, a circle is not necessarily a sphere.
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