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The beginning, Genesis 1 going slow

570 views 17 replies 5 participants last post by  GeorgeMilton 
#1 ·
Let's look at Genesis slowly. Not one line a day, but not full chapters. Using NIV here.



1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.


Okay- I think line one is a title of what will happen in the story. But...


In line two the earth is already there. Now, heaven is made later, but the earth is there. But, the earth is formless and empty. How can something be formless and empty?

Now, we have darkness, the deep, the spirit of god and the waters. Okay- god creates heaven and earth, but did he create these? Darkness as absence of light one could say is simply a state of non-existance, but it is described as a thing (darkness is OVER the deep- but if light doesn't exist wouldn't darkness be everywhere, even in the deep? And if so, why mention it being over the deep? Is this darkness a cloud, or akin to a cloud?) So, we have the deep, and we have the waters. From later on it seems the waters are in the deep.

Next we see the spirit of god- does that mean god is more than just spirit? If god is exclusively spirit, wouldn't we say "God, who is a spirit, hovered over the deep"? Also, if god hovers over does that mean he isn't everywhere?


Anyways, I find these lines both very poetic and very perplexing, and I thought others might enjoy the contemplation.
 
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#2 ·
Hmm interesting....well all know God is and can be seen everywhere (Rom 1:20). Then there is the trinity.....God in general is a spirit though.
 
#4 ·
The Hebrew word that is translated as hovering is also used in Deuteronomy in the context of an eagle hovering over it's young and catching them with its wings. The passage is emphasising that right from the beginning God was present in the Earth that he had created and that even though it was formless and empty and dark he was still there playing a protective role and ready to bring light and colour and shape and order and form and life. It ought to be a comfort to those of us who struggle to see God as being there during times of inner darkness that he is still present and cares about us.

I don't believe it's saying that God's spirit only exists in certain places at a time. Remember that our language is rooted in time and place whereas God is not and therefore our language is imperfect in describing his characteristics and so we have to fall back on using metaphors. As Christians we often talk about God's spirit living inside of us but that is a spiritual statement not a physical one. He doesn't take up residence in a corner of our lungs, or heart, or whatever.

Genesis is a beautiful book that I love. Thanks for starting the thread.
 
#7 ·
Spirit is a trait of God. Notice you can say 'his joy' or 'joy of his' and both mean the same, or 'his body' and 'body of his.'

His trait - spirit - was there.

Phrased in that particular way, it means he cares about the earth.

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Formless means there was no ground, just water. Notice God makes land later.
Empty means nothing in it. Just water.

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Darkness indeed means no light and everywhere.

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I'm surprised this thread hasn't been hijacked by agnostics/atheists/whatever-the-hell-they're-calling-themselves.
 
#9 ·
I read this book a while back...https://www.amazon.com/Beginning-We-Misunderstood-Interpreting-Original/dp/0825439272. I thought it was pretty good. It basically makes a pretty good case that Genesis 1 was written mostly to correct the Egyptian creation narratives and to a lesser extant other Mesopotamian creation stories. Remember the target audience would have been the Hebrews who were most familiar with the Egyptian creation world view so it was written in way they could relate to. I'll have to go back and look through it to get some specifics.
 
#15 ·
From the book....In the Beginning....We Misunderstood. Only selected quotes, I left a lot out especially important are the elaborations after the summary points. Just too much to type.

Initial Conditions of Creation
Genesis: 1:2 Formless, void, darkness,deep
Egypt : Watery, unlimited,darkness,imperceptibility

Genesis: 1:2 "The Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters
Egypt: The god of wind/breath on the waters

Means of Creation
Genesis: 1:3,6,9 God creates by divine command
Egypt: Atum(orPtah)speaks creation into existence.

Genesis:1 God is sovereign King of the Universe
Egypt: The particular god presented as creator is also presented as the most significant god.

Separation as Initial Acts of Creation
Genesis: 1:3 Light created before the sun is in place
Egypt: Light is created before the sun rises in it's place
Genesis: 1:6-7 God creates by separating the waters to create an atmosphere.
Egypt: The god creates by separating the waters to create an atmosphere.
Genesis: 1:9 God creates by separating the land from the waters.
Egypt: Initially in creation the first little hillock of land(primordial mound) rises out of the water.

Creation of the Sun
Genesis: 1:14-18 God creates the sun(day4)after the light(day1)
Egypt: The sun rises on the first day

Creation of Mankind
Genesis: 1:26-28 God creates mankind in his image
Egypt: The gods created man in their image, formed out of clay.

God Rests
Genesis: 2:1-3 After completing the work God rested
Egypt : Ptah rested after completing his work of creation(Memphite Theology)

Purpose of the Creation Accounts
Genesis: 1-2 God as creator claims sovereignty over all creation and so all nations.
Egypt : The creator god claims sovereign rule of the state

Summary

Moses does not directly dispute the events of creation, but he uses common Egyptian perceptions of creation to present a radically different and unique understanding of God and his relationship to man in his world. To summarize these distinctions:
1.God in Genesis exists independently of creation and is not created or self-created.
2.God alone transcends creation.
3.God is sovereign over all creation.
4.God alone is deity.
5.Mankind has great significance and value as God's image.
6.Israel was to celebrate the rule of God in their lives by imitating their Creator in work and rest each week.

........
 
#11 ·
Glad to see people chiming in.


The next bit of Genesis


3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.


Okay- while earth seems to come out of the waters later, light just appears via command. This is a form of the power of the word. God is a spirit, yet he saw the light was good. If eyes see, how is it a spirit sees? There is day and night, but no planets to mark them. Perhaps light just turned off or on? Or did they move around?
Not as many questions for me on this one, but those are the thoughts.
 
#12 ·
Glad to see people chiming in.

The next bit of Genesis

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day.

Okay- while earth seems to come out of the waters later, light just appears via command. This is a form of the power of the word. God is a spirit, yet he saw the light was good. If eyes see, how is it a spirit sees? There is day and night, but no planets to mark them. Perhaps light just turned off or on? Or did they move around?
Not as many questions for me on this one, but those are the thoughts.
If you go in a cave you can't see the planets, but time still passes. Time still passed even tho there were no planets.

'Saw' an easy way to understand 'he knew of it,' and I would say a more personal way too.
 
#14 ·
6 And God said, "Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water."
7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so.
8 God called the vault "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning-the second day.
 
#17 ·
9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
 
#18 ·
the whole thing, lol

The Beginning

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day.
6 And God said, "Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning-the second day.
9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning-the third day.
14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights-the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning-the fourth day.
20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning-the fifth day.
24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground-everything that has the breath of life in it-I give every green plant for food." And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning-the sixth day.


 
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