About Heaven and Hell - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-05-2019, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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About Heaven and Hell


Can someone really be happy in Heaven while knowing there are other persons damned to eternal punishment? Isn't that kind of thinking hellish in itself?
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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-05-2019, 02:42 PM
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assuming the hell residers are immoral or moral nihilists, i don’t think they would care anyway. Humans are extremely narcissistic and selfish by nature, is that hellish?
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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-05-2019, 02:52 PM
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Good question.....but in Heaven (New Earth) we won't have any worries......everyone had a chance at salvation they chose against God so .

~ How can I build Your kingdom if I'm building my own
How can You be my treasure if I'm digging for gold
How can You be my fire if my heart has grown cold
How can You be my future if I've made this my home ~ Love & the Outcome
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-05-2019, 03:27 PM
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The Bible describes people will recognize that all - people in heaven and in people hell - God's judgement as just; that is, all will see it as the correct ruling.

The world is quiet here.
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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 08:57 PM
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Good question.....but in Heaven (New Earth) we won't have any worries......everyone had a chance at salvation they chose against God so .

Yes, it is a good question; I think that is exactly what the OP means.

cheer up - God is with you
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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 12:00 PM
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The view of a certain number of souls suffering in literal eternity and another group of souls being in bliss for a literal eternity doesn't make sense to me personally considering that all behavior is somehow learned or instigated. Even if disbelief was the only damnable sin it wouldn't be fair to those whose upbringing made the concept of God unapproachable, like if their religious parents were cruel to them or something.

Hinduism mention cycles and that at the end of the cycles duality (good/evil, male/female, all polarities) is resolved into one and in perfect unity there can be no pain or loneliness of any kind. Of course there are many branches of Hinduism and some might teach differently. But the point I'm trying to make is that oneness seems like the only true eternal heaven... and even that is not genuinely eternal. Because the universe would again unfold into duality. Like a child being born and leaving it's mother's womb. The cycles repeat or so they say.
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 03:47 PM
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What if God doesn't put anyone in hell, individuals put themselves there, I'd imagine heaven to be a million times better than the best buzz of a combination of all the different kinds of drugs, everybodie's to high in heaven to care about a bunch of crispy pedo's burning in hell.






And all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death
Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow,
A poor player that strut's and fret's his hour upon the stage and is heard no more,
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
- Macbeth
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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 03:56 PM
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Hell doesn't exist. No one has been there, out off all the many thousands of people who have astral traveled and even had near death experiences although they aren't the most reliable because people can be under a lot of stress and trauma that can affect their perception, there isn't a single valid story of anyone going there. I could go on and on about this but I don't have the energy for it.
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 10:06 PM
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Hell doesn't exist.
Hell is very very real my friend, many churches stray from preaching on it but people need to know its Jesus or Hell no other options.

~ How can I build Your kingdom if I'm building my own
How can You be my treasure if I'm digging for gold
How can You be my fire if my heart has grown cold
How can You be my future if I've made this my home ~ Love & the Outcome
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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 11:13 PM
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Black Sabbath Lyrics



"Heaven And Hell"

Sing me a song, you're a singer
Do me a wrong, you're a bringer of evil
The Devil is never a maker
The less that you give, you're a taker
So it's on and on and on, it's Heaven and Hell, oh well

The lover of life's not a sinner
The ending is just a beginner
The closer you get to the meaning
The sooner you'll know that you're dreaming
So it's on and on and on, oh it's on and on and on
It goes on and on and on, Heaven and Hell
I can tell, fool, fool!

Well if it seems to be real, it's illusion
For every moment of truth, there's confusion in life
Love can be seen as the answer, but nobody bleeds for the dancer
And it's on and on, on and on and on....

They say that life's a carousel
Spinning fast, you've got to ride it well
The world is full of Kings and Queens
Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams
It's Heaven and Hell, oh well
And they'll tell you black is really white
The moon is just the sun at night
And when you walk in golden halls
You get to keep the gold that falls
It's Heaven and Hell, oh no!
Fool, fool!
You've got to bleed for the dancer!
Fool, fool!
Look for the answer!
Fool, fool, fool!




And I always thought this would be
the land of milk and honey
Oh but I came to find out that it's
all hate and money
And there's a canopy of greed holding me down.
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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 11:15 PM
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Hell is very very real my friend, many churches stray from preaching on it but people need to know its Jesus or Hell no other options.
All you need to do to realize that's not true is have an out of body experience (astral travel).
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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 05:52 AM
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Heaven is abscence of darkness and evil so people who are forever in God's presence won't think about misery anymore. Thank God's mercy.
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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 09:01 PM
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Hell doesn't exist. No one has been there, out off all the many thousands of people who have astral traveled and even had near death experiences although they aren't the most reliable because people can be under a lot of stress and trauma that can affect their perception, there isn't a single valid story of anyone going there. I could go on and on about this but I don't have the energy for it.

Perhaps the answer is that once you arrive in Hell there is no escape.

cheer up - God is with you
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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 04:03 AM
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Perhaps the answer is that once you arrive in Hell there is no escape.
But I could say to get to hell you must first know where it is. It's not just astral travelers but people like Michael Newton who's a pioneer in the hypnosis of life between lives has never come across anything like it. He and his team and other people in the field have worked with many thousands of people over decades now and nothing has been revealed about there being an actual hell. I'm probably not going to get anywhere with you on this but if read Neal Donald Walsch's book Conversations With God if you want to see what god actually has to say.
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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 02:06 AM
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The view of a certain number of souls suffering in literal eternity and another group of souls being in bliss for a literal eternity doesn't make sense to me personally considering that all behavior is somehow learned or instigated. Even if disbelief was the only damnable sin it wouldn't be fair to those whose upbringing made the concept of God unapproachable, like if their religious parents were cruel to them or something.

Hinduism mention cycles and that at the end of the cycles duality (good/evil, male/female, all polarities) is resolved into one and in perfect unity there can be no pain or loneliness of any kind. Of course there are many branches of Hinduism and some might teach differently. But the point I'm trying to make is that oneness seems like the only true eternal heaven... and even that is not genuinely eternal. Because the universe would again unfold into duality. Like a child being born and leaving it's mother's womb. The cycles repeat or so they say.

It is not true that all behaviour is learned or instigated (not sure what you mean by that word).


You only learn something if you do not view it as unacceptable in all circumstances. No-one ever does anything they find completely unacceptable. Therefore you have already made the choice of your own free will - you have not condemned it outright before the situation arrived where you learned it.

cheer up - God is with you
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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 02:42 AM
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I think the idea is that each person has their chance to prove their worth, and God is the one that passes judgement. If you've made it into Heaven or Hell, you're meant to trust that God has made the right decision for all those in Heaven and Hellx

<3
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 09:23 AM
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It is not true that all behaviour is learned or instigated (not sure what you mean by that word).


You only learn something if you do not view it as unacceptable in all circumstances. No-one ever does anything they find completely unacceptable. Therefore you have already made the choice of your own free will - you have not condemned it outright before the situation arrived where you learned it.
Learned behavior - copying what others do or tell you to do. Instigated behavior - responding to what others do to you. An example of instigated behavior could be becoming a recluse because when you go outside people treat you badly. That's what I mean by that term.

We have free will but our views and actions don't exist in a vacuum. Some people are raised atheist, others Christian, Muslim, etc. and many would say belief in the right faith equals a passing grade into heaven or a damning grade into hell. Under that concept the person would have bought a ticket to hell by being born into the wrong religious or irreligious family. Sure, a person can leave the faith they were born into and change to another, but especially for someone born into a heavily religious community where everyone they know holds the same views, it's not that likely. A more logical idea to me is that those who live with integrity and virtue, regardless of which belief system they're under, would experience a positive afterlife.
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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 03:00 PM
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I would happily see the belief in a Hell of infinite torture and pain consigned to the dustbin of Christian theological history. If you believe in this I challenge you to light a candle and hold your hand on the burning flame for a few seconds; consider how painful it is, and imagine experiencing this level of pain for not merely a few seconds, or a few hours, but forever with no chance of any end, or even temporary reprieve, from that pain. Now ask yourself which human being from history may deserve to suffer like this? Perhaps at a push you could come up with some names Hitler, or Stalin, the great tyrants of history. Or you may think of those who committed other heinous crimes like child rapists or murderers deserve it. Even in the case of these people it is debatable whether they deserve eternal suffering but so far you may be able to hold on to the idea that Hell is a reasonable concept but where it starts to really fall apart is when you start thinking about friends, family members, or simply ordinary people you pass on the street who haven't given their life to God. How can you imagine them feeling that pain forever and be okay with that?

I am not a nihilist and I do believe that the choices we make in this life have consequences and I also believe God is the creator of the universe and is a being of complete love. To reject the possibility of a relationship with that God is certainly a steep choice that has consequences but I can't accept eternal agony as being one of them. The more I study God the more amazed, overwhelmed and utterly blessed I feel that God is merciful and that this may even be God's most important characteristic over and above everything else. Because damn it we need mercy as human beings-all of us-Christians, Atheists, Buddhists, whatever. I fervently hope and pray God's mercy truly is deeper than even most believers can possibly imagine.

"The really important kind of freedom involves attention, and awareness, and discipline, and effort, and being able truly to care about other people and to sacrifice for them, over and over, in myriad petty little unsexy ways, every day. That is real freedom. The alternative is unconsciousness, the default setting, the "rat race" - the constant gnawing sense of having had and lost some infinite thing." (David Foster Wallace)
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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 08:26 AM
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Can someone really be happy in Heaven while knowing there are other persons damned to eternal punishment? Isn't that kind of thinking hellish in itself?

Of course no one can be happy in the thought that their loved ones are burning in literal fire "for ever". If the thought of eternal torture does not bother them, then I would say their conscious is seared and their loved has grown cold.



I don't think those that believe in eternal torture has ever even thought about how insane such a doctrine is.

FAITH isn't blind. It's the EXPECTATION of things not seen. -Dave in Tenn
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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-28-2019, 11:41 PM
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Hell doesn't exist. No one has been there, out off all the many thousands of people who have astral traveled and even had near death experiences although they aren't the most reliable because people can be under a lot of stress and trauma that can affect their perception, there isn't a single valid story of anyone going there. I could go on and on about this but I don't have the energy for it.
I have not researched astral travel much, but what I know is that it can open a path for evil spirits to torment you. Regarding hellish NDEs, there are plenty of them, and I dunno if I can dismiss them to stress and trauma (even though I wish I could). I've mainly focused on researching suicide NDEs, and it seems like most are pleasant experiences, but there is a good amount of hellish cases too... people being ripped apart by demons in otherworldly pain. I assume most suicide cases are traumatic and stressful, but yet majority have pleasant NDEs.


Maybe it's not a hell as mentioned in the bible, but NDEs do seem to suggest that there is suffering in the afterlife too, even worse suffering then there is on earth. No idea if the suffering is brief, long lasting, or eternal though. The suffeirng during NDE cases obviously ends. But it does keep me from having a rosy outlook on the afterlife. And it's not like someone can avoid the hellish NDEs by being religious, there are religious people who are ripped apart by demons too, to their surprise.
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