Stop preaching at me - Social Anxiety Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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Stop preaching at me


My sister keeps trying to give me these stupid empowering words which are the equivalent of 'just be more confident' and 'All you need to do is this and that'
I would love for people who are as ignorant as this to experience having social anxiety for ONE day, then I would pat them on the back whilst saying 'don't worry! just be more confident'

Mental health is not a joke people need to stop talking about it as if it doesn't exist, having an 'all it takes is one simple trick!' attitude about it

Show this to everyone who does not understand social anxiety
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3KDiUq9AdM&t=219s
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 09:50 AM
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Yeah...empty platitudes are more than annoying.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 10:26 AM
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Yeah, I try to remember that people who do that are trying to be helpful even though it isn't.

Empathy is harder than talking like a 10 step self help article on Buzzfeed or something.

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 10:48 AM
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Have you tried talking with her about how much and why it bothers you? It sounds like, as Don pointed out, it could be that she is trying to be helpful--but doesn't have the experience or tools to do it effectively.

If she's receptive and you haven't already, it might even be helpful to try to guide her toward some literature/media on social anxiety, to help her understand what it is you're experiencing and why it's so complicated to "deal with."

I have, unfortunately, had to have similar conversations with well-meaning folk in the past, to mixed results. The ones that truly want to help, though, will make the effort.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 11:36 AM
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Idk where you are located but this is a big time American thing. In America you are told that you are an individual who is responsible for you own luck and happiness.
If you mess up then the problem must be YOU. And the answer is just as simple and be more positive, be more confident, be an optimist.
In other words, an oversimplification of all things.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by funnynihilist View Post
Idk where you are located but this is a big time American thing. In America you are told that you are an individual who is responsible for you own luck and happiness.
If you mess up then the problem must be YOU. And the answer is just as simple and be more positive, be more confident, be an optimist.
In other words, an oversimplification of all things.
America's staunch individualism has definitely gone too far over the years, especially considering the way it discusses mental health. There's either the hyper-postive self-help stuff which leaves you alone to deal with your mental health with an unsustainable sense of optimism. Or, there's the iron and nails "I'm tough so I don't talk about fEeLiNgs" pick yourself up by the bootstraps mentality that my parent's and especially my grandparents have adopted. The more I think about it, the more I want to be in this together with people, not going on my own isolated one-man battle with my rampant mental health issues. At least to the extent that it is possible to anyway. And I say this as someone with a lot of avoidant behaviour and a sometimes misanthrope.

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-27-2019, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by funnynihilist View Post
Idk where you are located but this is a big time American thing. In America you are told that you are an individual who is responsible for you own luck and happiness.
If you mess up then the problem must be YOU. And the answer is just as simple and be more positive, be more confident, be an optimist.
In other words, an oversimplification of all things.
Great point here. It's "try harder" never "maybe this society sucks/sorry you're dealing with that issue."
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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Great point here. It's "try harder" never "maybe this society sucks/sorry you're dealing with that issue."
indeed

Show this to everyone who does not understand social anxiety
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3KDiUq9AdM&t=219s
_
Youtube poops are the best
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnbU...3r3m3xw03c010c
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 04:45 PM
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*Preaches at you*

Need a friend or support? Send me a PM and I'll answer as soon as I can.

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 05:11 PM
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I think people who tell you to try harder probably just assume that you haven't already tried hard. On top of that, there is nothing else for you to do once that option is exhausted so they have nowhere else to go besides telling you that you're not trying hard enough (because obviously if you really tried harder it would have worked (not saying this is true. Saying that's what they are implying because they're in a corner with giving advice that doesn't work and they're now fighting to get out of that corner)).

Anyway, people tend to have this backwards idea that everyone is the same so one size fits all solutions are kind of to be expected. If it worked for them it should work for everyone because there are no variations in humans because we all come off the same assembly line as the latest iPhone, apparently.

/WYSD
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by WillYouStopDave View Post
people tend to have this backwards idea that everyone is the same so one size fits all solutions are kind of to be expected. If it worked for them it should work for everyone because there are no variations in humans because we all come off the same assembly line as the latest iPhone, apparently.
Mostly this. Which is weird, considering, "If I can reach the top shelf, then you can reach the top shelf, too, just stretch harder" is obviously asinine. If you can't see the difference between us, it doesn't exist, apparently. Weird screwball thinking.

But most of these people mean well. Even the tough love people who sound mean and give you a hard time often say what they do because they want you to succeed (at least, in their own terms), not because they want to hurt you, per se.

I'm not sure anyone can really understand what an experience is like unless they've been through it themselves. Which makes trying to have your feelings validated an exercise in futility most of the time.

In science, ideology tends to corrupt; absolute ideology [corrupts] absolutely" - Robert Nisbet
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 06:21 PM
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Mostly this. Which is weird, considering, "If I can reach the top shelf, then you can reach the top shelf, too, just stretch harder" is obviously asinine. If you can't see the difference between us, it doesn't exist, apparently. Weird screwball thinking.

But most of these people mean well. Even the tough love people who sound mean and give you a hard time often say what they do because they want you to succeed (at least, in their own terms), not because they want to hurt you, per se.

I'm not sure anyone can really understand what an experience is like unless they've been through it themselves. Which makes trying to have your feelings validated an exercise in futility most of the time.
Well, that's just it. They think they have been through it. But they really haven't. They have been through their own personal version of it. Which they assume is the same for everyone (but isn't).

I don't know. It's hard for me to take a "but they mean well" approach to it when many of them have had it explained to them over and over that they're actually being rude and inconsiderate and unhelpful and exactly why they're being rude and inconsiderate and unhelpful. That someone believes they're doing the right thing does not change the impact it has on someone else when what they're doing is considered to be wrong by the person it's directed at. At some point it's just piling more **** on top of a pile of ****.

That said, I have done it myself because when you feel like you have to try to give someone advice, you have to say something or you're done so I don't know. But I pretty much back off if they make it clear they don't want it.

/WYSD
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by WillYouStopDave View Post
Well, that's just it. They think they have been through it. But they really haven't. They have been through their own personal version of it. Which they assume is the same for everyone (but isn't).

I don't know. It's hard for me to take a "but they mean well" approach to it when many of them have had it explained to them over and over that they're actually being rude and inconsiderate and unhelpful and exactly why they're being rude and inconsiderate and unhelpful. That someone believes they're doing the right thing does not change the impact it has on someone else when what they're doing is considered to be wrong by the person it's directed at. At some point it's just piling more **** on top of a pile of ****.
Agreed.

My soon to be former roommate is one of those people who gives unsolicited advice all the time and then is offended if you reject it. One small example of this is how she used to turn on the light when I was sitting at the kitchen table with it off. She apologized for it and explained that it was a habit she got from her parents, who always used to tell her that it was bad for her eyes. She apologized so she knew it was irritating, but that didn't stop her from continuing to do it.

(I know turning on the light isn't exactly the same as advice, but it was part of a pattern of her acting like she always knew what was right for me)

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by WillYouStopDave View Post
Well, that's just it. They think they have been through it. But they really haven't. They have been through their own personal version of it. Which they assume is the same for everyone (but isn't).

I don't know. It's hard for me to take a "but they mean well" approach to it when many of them have had it explained to them over and over that they're actually being rude and inconsiderate and unhelpful and exactly why they're being rude and inconsiderate and unhelpful. That someone believes they're doing the right thing does not change the impact it has on someone else when what they're doing is considered to be wrong by the person it's directed at. At some point it's just piling more **** on top of a pile of ****.

That said, I have done it myself because when you feel like you have to try to give someone advice, you have to say something or you're done so I don't know. But I pretty much back off if they make it clear they don't want it.
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Agreed.

My soon to be former roommate is one of those people who gives unsolicited advice all the time and then is offended if you reject it. One small example of this is how she used to turn on the light when I was sitting at the kitchen table with it off. She apologized for it and explained that it was a habit she got from her parents, who always used to tell her that it was bad for her eyes. She apologized so she knew it was irritating, but that didn't stop her from continuing to do it.

(I know turning on the light isn't exactly the same as advice, but it was part of a pattern of her acting like she always knew what was right for me)
Well, I'm talking about random people you run into online or IRL, not people you interact with all the time who should know better (like a parent, roommate, therapist, etc.). There's a difference between wanting to give some kind of support to someone you hardly know and simply refusing to listen to someone when they tell you to stop doing something/giving that advice. The first is a well-intentioned mistake, the second is invalidating. I try to be patient with people in the first category.

They often do feel they've had the same kind of experience -- "I know what it's like to be depressed; I was so sad when my dog died" -- and it's definitely part of the problem. The character of an experience can change dramatically as the intensity/duration changes. Advice that's good for one person can be invalidating (or even harmful) for another even if the problem looks the same from outside.

The ultimate invalidation for me is: "you just don't want to get better". As if I haven't spent decades trying to solve my problems. If I tell someone something doesn't work for me, it's because I've already tried it extensively and not seen any improvement. I spent about 32,000 hours interacting with hordes of people during the course of my last job (selling, managing, resolving disputes, etc.) and it didn't touch my people phobia at all. I'm more anxious now than I was when I started there, despite the fact that my social skills have improved dramatically. So it's not that "I just need to get out there and talk to more people". My problem is not the kind of problem that can be solved through social interaction.

In science, ideology tends to corrupt; absolute ideology [corrupts] absolutely" - Robert Nisbet
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 04:07 AM
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Well, I'm talking about random people you run into online or IRL, not people you interact with all the time who should know better (like a parent, roommate, therapist, etc.). There's a difference between wanting to give some kind of support to someone you hardly know and simply refusing to listen to someone when they tell you to stop doing something/giving that advice. The first is a well-intentioned mistake, the second is invalidating. I try to be patient with people in the first category.
Agreed. And, to be fair, I generally brush off unsolicited advice. It's people who get offended when you don't take their advice that get under my skin.

Quote:

They often do feel they've had the same kind of experience -- "I know what it's like to be depressed; I was so sad when my dog died" -- and it's definitely part of the problem. The character of an experience can change dramatically as the intensity/duration changes. Advice that's good for one person can be invalidating (or even harmful) for another even if the problem looks the same from outside.

The ultimate invalidation for me is: "you just don't want to get better". As if I haven't spent decades trying to solve my problems. If I tell someone something doesn't work for me, it's because I've already tried it extensively and not seen any improvement. I spent about 32,000 hours interacting with hordes of people during the course of my last job (selling, managing, resolving disputes, etc.) and it didn't touch my people phobia at all. I'm more anxious now than I was when I started there, despite the fact that my social skills have improved dramatically. So it's not that "I just need to get out there and talk to more people". My problem is not the kind of problem that can be solved through social interaction.
Same. I've come a long way. At work, you wouldn't even be able to tell I have SA at all. But I'm just really good at covering it up, and I'm thankful I can even do that much.

It is the light she longs to find,
When she delights in learning more.
Her world is learning; it defines
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