Is it ok to just give up? - Page 2 - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #21 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-31-2020, 02:50 AM
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@Hadara I can really identify with the whole 'being an emotional sponge for your friends' problems' thing. I've done way too much of it too. Then I was determined to give it up, and noticed that just certain kinds of people treat me as their personal psychotherapist, with no reciprocation. So now I just don't hang out much with such people. Ultimately, it was just acknowledging that to some narcissistic 'friends' I was valuable only as a support act in their life drama. Ouch.

It might be a good idea (usually is) to just meet more people on a casual basis. There's less emotional investment, more weighing up before building friendships and more space for everyone to breathe.

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post #22 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-31-2020, 03:26 AM
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@hahaha everyone says that, that because I'm a woman I will have it easier but that has never been the case for me. Yes, I'm a woman, but I'm not a beautiful woman men would want to date. The men I've met in my life have always avoided me, claiming I was way too much of an "intellectual" or "way too smart" for them. Nobody likes the "genius girl" (as some of them called me), honestly, nobody likes a nerdy girl. To the men I've met, "being smart" is no way sexually attractive. So no, it hasn't been any easier because I'm a girl. The other men I've met in my life have treated me badly simply because I'm a woman and they consider me to be less than them just because of my gender.

Yeah, I know humans are awful, the main reason why I was already giving up on this. I'm tired of humans and their egos. I hate myself as well for being a human.
You've met some really stupid men I guess.

Some people heard my words and thought it meant they knew me
Truth is, I don't exist, I'm just a soundtrack to your movie
Some background figure in a story that's already scripted
And what I feel's just felt for you to hear me ****ing spit it
I jump in many different heads through these words and poems
Always hoping maybe the next leap'll be my leap home

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post #23 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-31-2020, 04:58 AM
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@Hadara If you can deal with a lifetime of loneliness then you have your answer but i don't recommend that path though.I relate with most of what you've said, i think a lot of people here do.From what i can tell you're way too good which means there will be people who take advantage of that unfortunately.I've been there in your situation and i realized i can't change the people who take advantage of good/kind people,the only thing i can change about it was myself.I'm not saying you have to become a bad person ,you just start with saying NO more and put yourself before others.Strangely that helps ,people seem to have more respect for you then instead of using you as a doormat.

Also don't put yourself down like that ,you speak 5 languages right?That's already attractive af !And why would you learn 4 new languages if you'd want to live a lifetime of loneliness?Don't tell me you've learned that to be alone with your cat or dog for the rest of your life.
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post #24 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-31-2020, 03:13 PM
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post #25 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2020, 03:19 AM Thread Starter
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First of all, thank you so much, everyone, for your answers.


@Disheveled and Lost :Well, this is what I've been doing for quite a while, searching for new ways to entertain myself so I don't feel lonely. I'm an artist so I always found a way to cope up whenever I had this problem. This problem began when I was 10 years old, at that time I created myself imaginary friends. When it continued during my teenage years, I wrote a novel in which I was part of it so that I could have "friends" that would like me. In my University years, I tried setting limits with the people around me, I still get in contact with them but, since I was still the "genius", they only talk to me when they need something. That was the time I got into comics as a way to release everything. Then came my first job, I met lots of people I no longer have contact with. Then my second job was as a teacher, only perverted older teachers approached me; the other ones ran away from me and my female coworkers didn't want anything with me, one (who was previously my teacher) got to the point of not wanting to even say hi to me and began bullying me whenever she could. Then I left my country to study because I was tired of the same, and now in this new country I am facing racism. My master degree's classmates don't talk to me anymore, they used to ignore me at class anyway.



I can't help but see a pattern... that there must be something wrong with me. It's impossible that so many people hate me because of them, there's something in me. But if that something has "always been there", how am I supposed to even see it or change it?
So yeah, I guess so far I've been using lots of coping mechanisms to survive loneliness. Sometimes they work, but sometimes they don't, as you say, because the mind really likes to play tricks.


@LostWords : Thanks a lot or being blunt! I'd rather have that kind of answer. I don't need it to be sugar coated.

Yeah, I know I really need to seek therapy, I guess the fact I'm running away from it is the same as why I'm thinking of giving up. It's the fact that I would have to see another person and interact and share things with him/her. I know this person is like, trained to do it, but how can I trust him/her? I know I should not give up, you are right, I know I should not to some degree, but at some point, I just feel so tired now. I feel defective, like, there definitely must be something wrong with me which I just can't change that gives me such bad luck with people.


@Paul : Thank you so much for clarifying it for me Yeah, you are right, I think I just have to be more direct and just have the ability to let go more often. Thank you so much for your advice.

@chrisinmd : Well, it's not like I don't go out. I'm not too eager of going to bars but I've tried going to artists meetings (since I'm an artist myself), language exchange meetings, participating on workshops, things like that, so that I could meet new people, but the story is always the same. And no, I'm not overweight, I'm quite "petite", you know? Like, very short but not too thin, not too chubby. And it is not like I don't know how to dress. People actually say I have a nice style. The only problem I have is that I can't use make up because I'm allergic to it, so I can't use eyeliner, maybe lipstick, but never put anything on my eyes.

My hair is curly and my eyes are deep brown (to the point they look black). I'm always well dressed and generally open to talk to anyone who approaches me.

The other problem I have is my obvious "indigenous" features. I'm Latinamerican, but even though I don't have a dark skin, I have those features on my face which I just can't change. It's my racial features which I just can't change if I don't undergo plastic surgery which I don't want to do just in order to satisfy a bunch of men.



@rab id foxes: I like your idea of meeting friends on a casual basis, it really lifts the idea of the emotional investment... now, do you have some tips in order to do that? Like, I've been to bars and cafés by myself but it is not like people will approach you just because they see you are alone. And I also don't think it is a good idea to take the lead and go ahead and say hi to everyone around. I also don't wanna be seen as being too desperate hahahaha

@Persephone Te Dread: Hahahaha, maybe I have, but that's all of the men I've met so far.

@Dissipated : Well, yeah, I guess I learned all those languages in my desire to finally be able to communicate with other people. I've always been alone and so, learning new languages, makes me feel like I'll have more opportunities to communicate with even more people... so far, yeah, some of those languages have helped me communicate with others and that feels really great, but I'm still unable to make friends no matter how many languages I've learned. I guess the part of saying NO more often could really be helpful. It's hard for me to say NO since the two times I've ever said no to something really struck me hard. First time was with a teacher, to whom I said I didn't want to participate in a school event and since that time she decided to never ask me again and then my entire school life of bullying began. And the second time was with a friend, I told her I couldn't help her because I was feeling tired and didn't have the time at that moment... a week later she had committed suicide.
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post #26 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2020, 04:27 AM
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@Hadara

Alot of what youre describing i can relate with like feeling defective" or not being able to trust people as I dont trust anyone and then I start to internalize what people say or obsessively worry what people say. People with sa tend to have those thoughts quite often like defectiveness and mistrust. A lot of those issues are in need of real help. I wish the city i lived in had the help i could get.

All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence and than success is sure," Mark Twain

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post #27 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2020, 06:23 AM Thread Starter
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Alot of what youre describing i can relate with like feeling defective" or not being able to trust people as I dont trust anyone and then I start to internalize what people say or obsessively worry what people say. People with sa tend to have those thoughts quite often like defectiveness and mistrust. A lot of those issues are in need of real help. I wish the city i lived in had the help i could get.

Yeah, it's so true! Like you obsessively worry about what you say and what others say to you. It's just like that; like I feel everyone is being deceptive or simply want something from me, because otherwise they would simply ignore me. I'm always the wallflower in parties, you know? But even if I try to be open minded and socialize, it seems like people run away from me or simply don't want to interact with me. Could it be I seem like too desperate about it? Could it be they sense my nervousness? It's just that if even after moving to the other side of the Atlantic people are still avoiding me, there MUST be something wrong with ME and not with them.



Yesterday, I tried to give socializing another chance. I was thinking about everything I've read here about not giving up, so I went to a bar to meet new people, like, without expecting anything. It was for a language exchange. I thought, ok, it's not like socializing will be the priority but practicing a language, it will be fine. I was on a table with a girl and a guy. But after a while I noticed he was only talking to her, he was always referring to her and the conversation was only between those two. My level on the target language is not bad, I could follow the conversation without a problem but I noticed he was instantly attracted to her. Of course, she was so good looking.

I tried to enter the conversation many times, like trying to say a thing or two, but they just wouldn't let me. It was horrible, as usual. There was even a moment where everybody were talking to each other and I was just looking around, wondering what the **** am I even doing here? This was a terrible idea!!



I'm not going again. I really suck at this hahahahaha
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post #28 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2020, 07:28 AM
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Yeah, it's so true! Like you obsessively worry about what you say and what others say to you. It's just like that; like I feel everyone is being deceptive or simply want something from me, because otherwise they would simply ignore me. I'm always the wallflower in parties, you know? But even if I try to be open minded and socialize, it seems like people run away from me or simply don't want to interact with me. Could it be I seem like too desperate about it? Could it be they sense my nervousness? It's just that if even after moving to the other side of the Atlantic people are still avoiding me, there MUST be something wrong with ME and not with them.



Yesterday, I tried to give socializing another chance. I was thinking about everything I've read here about not giving up, so I went to a bar to meet new people, like, without expecting anything. It was for a language exchange. I thought, ok, it's not like socializing will be the priority but practicing a language, it will be fine. I was on a table with a girl and a guy. But after a while I noticed he was only talking to her, he was always referring to her and the conversation was only between those two. My level on the target language is not bad, I could follow the conversation without a problem but I noticed he was instantly attracted to her. Of course, she was so good looking.

I tried to enter the conversation many times, like trying to say a thing or two, but they just wouldn't let me. It was horrible, as usual. There was even a moment where everybody were talking to each other and I was just looking around, wondering what the **** am I even doing here? This was a terrible idea!!



I'm not going again. I really suck at this hahahahaha

Yeah, youre not alone even though it may seem like it. Your experiences are similar to mine. I cant establish friendships let alone maintain them and If I do its not healthy and feeling like walking on egg shells at times. Sometimes the friendship I have dont even feel genuine to the point that its just pointless to have a friend just for the hell of it despite the person may be helping me with money and food. Sadly, Ive had the same friend since 2003 when i met him at university and ever since then i was only able to make one friend if he is true friend and vice versa. Ive had many people ive known at university but many acquaintances nothing more then that. When I then started working to earn some income I couldnt even bother to make friends at work it was just small talk and nothing more. Im thinking people think im desperate somehow and that makes them run away. When in public both women and men when they see me I start to make associations and assumptions that what Im feeling and what happens in the objective world has to always to do with me. whether theyre talking about me or running away from me. Its a self centered idea but not in the sense of being self centered selfish way.

All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence and than success is sure," Mark Twain

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post #29 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2020, 08:29 AM
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don't ever give up, my son.


this way.



never give up. trust your instincts.
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post #30 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-02-2020, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
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@CopadoMexicano : well, yeah, it seems it has to do with anxiety. I can relate to feeling like there's something wrong with me when trying to meet new people. I don't want to be seen as desperate, but I don't know if I may be doing something that actually reflects my need to build new relationships. If there was a way of knowing if there's something I'm doing that actually causes that I would stop doing it immediately. Like, people say I set too many boundaries but then I don't actually know what gives them that idea, like, is there some kind of thing I say or is it in a gesture? I wish I could understand in order to get better, you know?

@SilentLyric : Hahahaha thanks!! I think I just may take a rest from it and then come back to try again hahaha But I want to learn some things first, like the ones others have suggested me here, like learning how to say no, setting limits and also how to open up a little more. Hahaha, they sound contradictory, but I really have to learn all of those. xD
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post #31 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-02-2020, 12:04 PM
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Not going to say that I can relate 100%, but I do know to some extent on how it feels to be on 'both sides'. People want to connect, but more often than not it is through different approaches and objectives as to why they want to connect. If they don't meet your standards to connect or vice versa, of course it will not work out or it becomes fleeting. These days connecting is more to do with either temporary pleasures or business ordeals - not someone to simply sit and have a cup of tea (*cough* coffee *cough*) and actually care about anything you want to intimately share with. We don't live in that type of world anymore.
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post #32 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-02-2020, 12:47 PM
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You'd stated that relationships are too bothersome and you don't mind being alone and you'd live on a deserted island if you could so I'm confused by the "giving up" phraseology. If I dislike spinach I don't view not eating it as having given up on it?

...you gotta keep the goal in mind, develop tunnel vision to a certain extent. it's hard, and it's not for everyone.

~bad baby

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post #33 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-02-2020, 06:16 PM
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@IWantMoreLife : It's ok, I'm really glad you are giving me some advice and I truly appreciate it. I also think it's fine if you've ever felt down even if our contexts are so different. I don't think there's any pain that is not worthy; we can all feel down and...



Hey,


I got a little carried away, my message is pretty long



Anyway, it looks like you don't really want to give up, you obviously have a lot to share And still having a passion for languages is also a good sign. Do you speak French?



Being here is a form of socialization, which explains why you feel better, and illustrates the huge impact of social interactions on someone’s mood. But while it’s really cool that you feel more upbeat, if it is only because of what you found here, I doubt it will be sustainable. It’s easier to interact here than face-to-face, but evidently only real human contact has the potential to fulfill your emotional needs. But maybe coming here gave you the boost you needed to “get back on tracks”, who knows?
I think the best thing is to try to take a step back and make a kind of diagnosis of yourself, of what according to you has a particular impact on your well-being, beyond “material” circumstances (for example the fact that covid is f*****g us). More specifically, you should try to understand why you're having a hard time with people. it involves methodical analyses of his thoughts and behaviors. It’s better write than trying to do it in your mind.


I will give you a more elaborate opinion. I don’t know you, so I can just make wild guesses. I tend to favor a “psychiatrist approach”, though I know I am in no way a doctor. Maybe it will look like something coming from a textbook, but it really reflects my point of view. Also, I may say things that are obvious, but I think I will be clearer this way.


So, you have obviously met a lot of people who made life hard for you, voluntarily or not, many who let you down, and even some who were toxic, which probably contributed to what I think is social anxiety. Labeling is not really essential, and you can easily find out online what SA is, if it is still unclear to you. A lot of research is available. According to me, the main thing to understand is that most people are not especially mean, selfish, or even unfriendly, which means that your difficulties are mostly caused by your perceptions and resulting behaviors.



“Being smart” is not particularly a factor, unless you are mostly surrounded by idiots, but I doubt it. And, fun fact (or not), Einstein was usually quite upbeat and easy-going 😉. Plus, intelligence comes in many forms; someone may have tremendous mathematical skills but very little “social intelligence”, or have difficulties to take a step back from his/herself. But anyway, social intelligence is not necessarily an innate thing (the innate/acquired distinction is usually a tricky issue in psychiatry). When you develop social anxiety, very often during childhood, - Innate? Acquired? Probably both -, you usually tend to have less contact with people, to get less from them, which hinders the development of useful social skills and negatively impact self-esteem. It’s a vicious cycle.


While we don’t really know how much social anxiety is genetic, we understand that this disorder is characterized by “cognitive distortions”. We are not robots; our brains are all wired in a way that is unique and there is not a unique “right way” to think. However, there are some typical thought patterns that will contribute to trigger anxiety, hopelessness, and self-consciousness before, during and/or after social interactions even when there is very little reason for that, hence the term “distortions”. The perceptions and thoughts on which are built these distortions are not necessarily 100% inaccurate, but they may take so much place they create very significant biases and prevent nuanced thinking. They may have been developed in reaction to individual experiences, as a way of coping, which means they may have helped at some point, but then became harmful in the long term.


Below are some common distortions. It’s a copy past from a text by a famous psychiatrist aimed at the general public. I’m too lazy do write more. The descriptions are so short the concept of distortion may seem oversimplistic - as often with ideal-types -, but the reality is more nuanced. These patterns can be subtle and insidious, especially in smart people, since they thought patterns are me more complex than average and because they can more easily construct reasoning to justify their biases


1. All-or-Nothing Thinking: You see things in blackand white categories. If your performance falls short of perfect, you see yourself as a total failure.


2.Overgeneralization: You see a single negative event asa never-ending pattern.


3. Mental Filter: You pick out a single negative detail and dwell on it exclusively, so that your vision of all reality becomes darkened, like the drop of ink that discolors the entire beaker of water.


4. Disqualifying the Positive: You reject positive experiences by insisting they “don’t count” for some reason or other. In this way you can maintain a negative belief that is contradicted by your everyday experiences.



5. Jumping to Conclusions: You make negative interpretations even though there are no definite facts that convincingly support your conclusion.


a. Mind Reading: You arbitrarily conclude that someone is reacting negatively to you, and you don’t bother to check this out.
b. The Fortune-Teller Error: You anticipate that things will turn out badly, and you feel convinced that your prediction is an already established fact.



6. Magnification (Catastrophizing) or Minimization: You exaggerate the importance of things (such as you goof-up or someone else’s achievement) or your inappropriately shrink things until they appear tiny (your own desirable qualities or the other fellow’s imperfections). This is also called the “binocular trick.”


7. Emotional Reasoning: You assume that your negative emotions necessarily reflect the way things really are: “I feel it, therefore it must be true.”


8. “Should” Statements: You try to motivate yourself with “should and shouldn’ts,” as if you had to be whipped and punished before you could be expected to do anything. “Musts” and “oughts” are also offenders. The emotional consequence is guilt. When you direct “should” statements toward others, you feel anger, frustration, and resentment.



9. Labeling and Mislabeling: This is an extreme of overgeneralization. Instead of describing your error, you attach a negative label to yourself. “I’m a loser.” When someone else’s behavior rubs you the wrong way, you attach a negative label onto him/her: “He’s a goddam louse.” Mislabeling involves describing an event with language that is highly colored and emotionally loaded.



10. Personalization: You see yourself as the cause of some negative external event for which, in fact you were not primarily responsible.



11. Maladaptive Thoughts: Thought that are not necessarily irrational or distorted, but are unproductive to dwell upon. Examples: “This is going to be difficult” and “It’s not fair that it’s so hard for me to overcome my anxiety.


That’s all for today, I’m pretty tired actually.



Cheers


ps: love the guy who thinks it's easier to be a girl. I want the same drug.




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post #34 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-02-2020, 07:00 PM
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You'd stated that relationships are too bothersome and you don't mind being alone and you'd live on a deserted island if you could so I'm confused by the "giving up" phraseology. If I dislike spinach I don't view not eating it as having given up on it?
My exact thoughts.
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