I wish bad things on people..... - Social Anxiety Forum
 
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-31-2020, 11:16 PM Thread Starter
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I wish bad things on people.....


Hey guys, so I know that this is wrong but sometimes I wish bad things such as mental illness on people. I suffer from depression and in my life I have had people tell me to just be happy or just be grateful or stop playing the victim. Fortunately, my depression is getting better, however it wasn't these statements that helped me, but instead self love. Sometimes though, I still think back to these statements that were said to me and it makes me sad. I highly doubt the people who say these things have exsperienced mental illness. Because I doubt that they have exsperienced it, I start to wish that they will suffer. I want to see if they would tell themselves to just be happy while they are simultaneously contemplating suicide. Again, I know it is wrong to wish this on people and I am trying to stop, but how do i? Also, I am aware of the possibility that I could be wishing this on people because I myself am hurt. It makes sense. I am not necessarily denying it. I just wish people had more empathy, love, and patience. Any thoughts?
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-31-2020, 11:23 PM
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But by discarding your own empathy, you are not fixing the problem that bothers you so much. That there is too little real empathy in the world may be a fact. You can't change (for example) a million people who have zero empathy. But can you still have it yourself?

/WYSD
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-31-2020, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
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But by discarding your own empathy, you are not fixing the problem that bothers you so much. That there is too little real empathy in the world may be a fact. You can't change (for example) a million people who have zero empathy. But can you still have it yourself?
Hmmm....that is a very real paradox you have noticed. I guess I become just like them then. Do you have any suggestions on how to stop wishing bad things on people 🙂
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-31-2020, 11:55 PM
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I also have bad feelings toward people, sometimes over very little. much resentment and bad judgements. idk if I want to stop though it can be unpleasant. at least you dont have to act on them.

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-01-2020, 12:39 AM
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Hmmm....that is a very real paradox you have noticed. I guess I become just like them then. Do you have any suggestions on how to stop wishing bad things on people
Well, other than "just don't do it" not really. If it's something you realize you're doing and you don't like it, you should be able to work on resisting that urge.

/WYSD
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-01-2020, 12:51 AM
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It sounds like you just want people to be empathetic. I understand. But wishing suffering on people isn't exactly healthy...Maybe just turn that hate into hoping they'll be less ignorant?
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-02-2020, 11:38 PM
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Hmmm....that is a very real paradox you have noticed. I guess I become just like them then. Do you have any suggestions on how to stop wishing bad things on people 🙂
You've heard of the phrase "two wrongs don't make a right", right? It means the following.

"the fact that someone has done something unjust or dishonest is no justification for acting in a similar way."

If you're anything like me, you have been burned by many, many people in the past. It's hard not to feel even a little bit misanthropic. We want to get even with them. Make them feel what we felt. Instinctively, anyway. But, I think that true kindness is being able to forgive those people... and especially not stoop to that level. That's the relevance of the quote.

Though from your original post, it seems like people genuinely do care about you, but they don't know how to help you. It's not as if they are hurting you on purpose. They just haven't been through what you and I have been through; they simply cannot relate. That is no fault of theirs. Perhaps they were more fortunate in life, maybe they had supportive family and friends. Maybe they weren't bullied as children, who knows. I understand that feeling, of wanting others to experience what you're experiencing so that they know how tough it really is. How chronic depression feels like absolute torture on some days. But they don't deserve to go through something like that. Neither do you, though. No one deserves that. No one deserves to feel worthless or isolated.

Whatever emotional pain you are experiencing is completely valid. Life is suffering, is it not? But be gentle with not only others, but also yourself. Acknowledge that it hurts. Then, truly you won't want to wish this kind of pain on anyone else. But please, take care of yourself first. You are important. You are loved.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-04-2020, 10:02 AM
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"The worst part about having a mental illness is people expect you to behave as if you don't"

Wishing other people could experience your pain to see what it's like is a common thought, I even thought the same in the past. What they lack is empathy which is the action of understanding, being aware of, and experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another even if you yourself haven't experienced them.

In my experience, these people are likely narcissists who are suffering in their own way mentally. Unfortunately they always try to drag people down with them in order to get above you by putting you down. Don't feed them the negative emotions they crave out of you, you know they don't know how you feel so you shouldn't let their words upset you so much.

Don't stoop to their level by wishing harm on them, even hypothetically. Learning to love and forgive even those who wrong you is one of the biggest steps in healing mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. Revenge and ideas of revenge never lead to anything good. Realize the people who say those things are also suffering in their own way which you also can't see and let it go.

“Let the wise hear and increase their learning, and let those of good comprehension seek guidance." - Proverbs 1:5
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-04-2020, 11:04 AM
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sometimes when I'm stood talking to someone, the theought of smacking them in the face for no reason crosses my mind lol. Its not an urge ha.



of course, I'm not a ****ing lunatic so I have never actually done it

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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-04-2020, 11:10 AM
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I think an easy way of overcoming this specific example is to realise that actually people with mental illness are also often unempathetic to people with the same mental illness (sometimes they're even worse.) So it turns out experiencing it does very little because it's so individualised in the first place. This doesn't really solve the issue of most people not having empathy, but it does mean that this isn't a cure lol.

This doesn't just apply to mental illness either btw it applies to lots of stuff. Because people often hate themselves and project that onto people similar to them etc. Or people who remind them of someone they used to be.

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-04-2020, 11:17 AM
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This doesn't just apply to mental illness either btw it applies to lots of stuff. Because people often hate themselves and project that onto people similar to them etc. Or people who remind them of someone they used to be.
The solution to that might be feeling sorry for yourself, then?

Though many people might not want people to feel sorry for them, they might prefer that to people wanting bad things to happen to them. If it has to be one or the other. I guess being indifferent is the same as apathetic so that isn't a viable alternative.

/WYSD
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-04-2020, 01:35 PM
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The solution to that might be feeling sorry for yourself, then?

Though many people might not want people to feel sorry for them, they might prefer that to people wanting bad things to happen to them. If it has to be one or the other. I guess being indifferent is the same as apathetic so that isn't a viable alternative.
It's a problem where you make progress in life but never learn to accept yourself at your worst I think. I think people get frustrated too when people aren't making the same progress they are. The more similar the person is to them, the more likely they are to expect them to be able to do anything they can do.

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-05-2020, 09:26 PM
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Let me save you some suspense. Those people who told you to just be happy or stop feeling self pity would definitely not be saying those things if they, themselves were battling with mental illnesses. You can stop wondering if they would. It's in some people's nature to try to simplify the complicated if they don't understand the true struggle. Those types not only lack empathy, they lack insight. The only way they will possibly understand is if they walked a mile in your shoes, so to speak. As far as wishing bad things on them, the truth is it's natural to a degree. Acknowledge it, try to understand their ignorance is their problem, not yours and do your best to not let them consume your thoughts. I think that's where the difference lies: thinking about it sometimes vs thinking about and wishing for it constantly. I know I have some people in my life who I personally would like to see karma teach a lesson to (not necessarily by having them plagued with a mental illness) but I try not to focus on them or worry that it won't play out the way I'd like. I think that would drive me into depression on its' own. I find solace in doing positive things and hoping that, in the end, it will all work out for the best.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-06-2020, 02:12 AM
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You wish bad things on people? Congratulations, you're human.

Seriously, everyone wishes bad things on other people now and then -- even if they won't or can't admit it. But wishing isn't doing -- there's a world of difference between thoughts and actions. Why try stopping something that is completely natural? I say more power to you; acknowledge those thoughts, hold onto them if they help you somehow.

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-06-2020, 07:34 AM
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I hope one day people who are happy and pleased will get into trouble and spend rest of their lives with depression. I know im one of the few people who genuinely have zero luck. But my biggest wish is to see others in a miserable situation like me.
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-06-2020, 09:15 AM
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You wish bad things on people? Congratulations, you're human.

Seriously, everyone wishes bad things on other people now and then -- even if they won't or can't admit it. But wishing isn't doing -- there's a world of difference between thoughts and actions. Why try stopping something that is completely natural? I say more power to you; acknowledge those thoughts, hold onto them if they help you somehow.
Absolutely agree.

@Infinitegalaxycat
I'm reading this thread and the topic was not how to change wishing bad things to people, but rather about your depression. Yet most people focused on that. Honestly, being nice and empathetic to everyone doesn't make those people feel better towards you, feel more empathetic towards you etc. Since I've been Christian for a long time (for 2-3 years I was really religious but then only kept the morals of Christianity that are maybe good objectively, but not in the way I and a lot of religious Christian people are applying them), I was putting myself last (I was already put last all the time), nothing has changed in people's attitude towards me. They just found that empathy useful and that's all.

It's a really strange thing about Western countries that are, apparently, still partly influenced by Christianity in their thinking. And then the later stuff, such as politics and politicians (everywhere but they took it from Americans and Western Europe since the whole concept comes from there) saying stuff and then not following it, saying but not doing... That's called virtue signaling and it's especially trendy right now (right? idk for sure).

Since virtue signaling is such a big thing, everyone says that even wishing bad things on people is so bad and you should be a good person as if if you do that, everyone becomes like that to you in response (not true). But if you wish someone bad, it doesn't happen to them. Even if you say that to them, it doesn't happen or make them feel as bad as you do because they don't feel it themselves and they don't take you that seriously.

I still do that sometimes because I want people to be the same in response which doesn't happen. When I feel like I'm doing it much more genuinely, there's still projection in it. I'm trying to help someone who feels bad and make them feel better because that's how I also feel and I would like someone to make me feel better like that so I feel a tiny bit better helping them because I project my needy, suffering etc part onto them. I mean if it's not just shallow and formal, it's still something with a tiny bit of value, but I wouldn't tell anyone to be nice like a mandatory thing or a thing they owe to people or should do...

I think my therapist changed my mind about it. Because psychoanalysis looks at that in a more true and progressive way than the moralistic view which is earlier which I found out by listening to a lecture by one amazing philosopher. Anyway, psychoanalysis (the modern form of it) knows that people in depression and therefore with traumas are needy and it's them who need something who didn't get so they don't necessarily have to be so good to other people.


@Infinitegalaxycat anyway, if you didn't read the whole thing, I know how it feels from your perspective... What you feel, including wishing bad on those people, is a natural reaction to things that cause your depression and to people who devalue that and give you bad unhelpful advices about how to overcome it or how to feel, they devalue your emotions and you have no one who does the opposite, so you feel the natural anger at them. That's how I used to feel too, when I was less capable of defending myself internally... People are really ignorant about it.

They either have never experienced this because there's no reason for them to do that cause they're healthy or they're dissociated from their emotions which is they're not healthy on the inside and maybe even have a trauma, but they live superficially and they think nothing's wrong. This youtuber talks about this dissociation of some many people a lot, for example:

(first half of the video)

Couldn't find a video where he talks about it specifically in detail, but this is very relatable to the topic:

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-06-2020, 10:45 AM
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No I don't care if people wish bad things on people as a coping mechanism but the OP didn't actually seem to be doing that, it seemed like they really believed that if those people went through the same things as they had they're be more empathetic, but that's obviously not the case. Because people are trash.

Anyway isn't your therapist a hypocrite who insults mentally ill people when they're not working? I don't know why you even listen to them unless you got a new one.

Western society doesn't encourage being nice, it encourages being an *******. East Asian ones encourage being polite/virtue signalling. There was some conflict for a while but Donald Trump is the president of the most Western of countries after all. People engage in vice signalling to prove they're not a snowflake lol.

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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-06-2020, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Tetragammon View Post
You wish bad things on people? Congratulations, you're human.

Seriously, everyone wishes bad things on other people now and then -- even if they won't or can't admit it. But wishing isn't doing -- there's a world of difference between thoughts and actions. Why try stopping something that is completely natural? I say more power to you; acknowledge those thoughts, hold onto them if they help you somehow.
You know I don't believe that and I say that as someone who wants to kill the whole Human race occasionally (sometimes more specific groups but you know it's an easy solution to just get rid of the species,) but I think when people say that they're projecting. Some people really don't wish bad things on people because it's not a coping mechanism they need.

I don't think people who act on the thoughts are worse than me. They're just in the unfortunate situation of having opportunities to act on their thoughts and/or poor impulse control. It's a distinction most people make but when you think about it what could they have done differently? I guess I don't believe in free will at all.

Kick down the door
Kick through the pain
You've been talking to the wall
Everybody is dead in this house

Kick down the door
Kick through the pain
You never wanted to be born
Everybody is dead in this house

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-06-2020, 11:47 AM
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Anyway isn't your therapist a hypocrite who insults mentally ill people when they're not working? I don't know why you even listen to them unless you got a new one.

Western society doesn't encourage being nice, it encourages being an *******. East Asian ones encourage being polite/virtue signalling. There was some conflict for a while but Donald Trump is the president of the most Western of countries after all. People engage in vice signalling to prove they're not a snowflake lol.
I guess not so much the therapist, but the whole theory she practices. Because I was reading about things according to this theory before choosing her and during therapy.

I'm not saying virtue signaling is bad or worse or not better than what broflakes do. It's just hypocritical. The impulse it comes from is good. I know that a lot of people actually want to follow morals like I used to do/still want to (although they also project stuff onto people themselves or their internalized feeling of guilt, all people project in general to some extent, whether it's anger or empathy). But when you need to fake it on societal level, that's when it becomes virtue signaling. Maybe it's not just a Western thing.

Yeah, in East Asia it's super extreme because it comes form the value they place into society, less in a way of respecting other people and more in a formal external demands from authority, it's since the time of Confuious (if I spelled his name right, sorry if I didn't).

I guess the point of what I'm saying is this person doesn't do anything bad to them. They don't get affected by that. Wishing bad stuff onto them internally or saying that in response to what they say about overcoming depression doesn't do anything bad to them. It's just wishing they had different external forces or something happened to them, but they can't control these circumstances, they just wish. Forcing yourself to be super nice and not even wish bad things to people when you feel the opposite mutes their own emotions that are genuine and reflect how they really feel. That's what I'm saying based on my experience although I still do that often. Look at my nickname, I'd always apologize for everything and make myself even smaller to the point of vanishing... Now I'm trying to change it and I do that less often, trying to be ethical, but in a healthier way, but not faking it when I don't feel it.

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-06-2020, 12:01 PM
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I guess not so much the therapist, but the whole theory she practices. Because I was reading about things according to this theory before choosing her and during therapy.

I'm not saying virtue signaling is bad or worse or not better than what broflakes do. It's just hypocritical. The impulse it comes from is good. I know that a lot of people actually want to follow morals like I used to do/still want to (although they also project stuff onto people themselves or their internalized feeling of guilt, all people project in general to some extent, whether it's anger or empathy). But when you need to fake it on societal level, that's when it becomes virtue signaling. Maybe it's not just a Western thing.

Yeah, in East Asia it's super extreme because it comes form the value they place into society, it's since the time of Confuious (if I spelled his name right, sorry if I didn't).

I guess the point of what I'm saying is this person doesn't do anything bad to them. Wishing bad stuff onto them internally or saying that in response to what they say about overcoming depression doesn't do anything bad to them. It's just wishing they had different external forces or something happened to them, but they can't control these circumstances, they just wish. Forcing yourself to be super nice and not even wish bad things to people when you feel the opposite mutes their own emotions that are genuine and reflect how they really feel. That's what I'm saying based on my experience although I still do that often. Look at my nickname, I'd always apologize for everything and make myself even smaller to the point of vanishing... Now I'm trying to change it and I do that less often, trying to be ethical, but in a healthier way.
Yeah I mean Western society has always seemed very contradictory to me especially American culture. I think maybe there are a lot of polar opposite views competing. Nothing has ever really stuck 100%. Caring about others with rigid individualism. As an outsider Eastern society has always seemed a lot more homogeneous in it's values (until perhaps recently with more interaction with capitalism,) and yeah it comes from Confucianism.

Tbh what the OP says isn't bad. When I came into this thread I also thought that the OP would be more aggressive maybe, but like I said it seems rooted more in wanting people to understand how they feel than plain revenge but yeah that's probably impossible ime and so it's all pretty futile.

Kick down the door
Kick through the pain
You've been talking to the wall
Everybody is dead in this house

Kick down the door
Kick through the pain
You never wanted to be born
Everybody is dead in this house

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