I cannot make big life decisions ...i don't know what to do. - Social Anxiety Forum
 
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-20-2019, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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I cannot make big life decisions ...i don't know what to do.


From since I've entered Medical school...my dream was to be a paediatrician.
When I graduated...my Dad kept telling me to look at the Marketplace...b4 I specialize..he keeps saying
"most people take their children to General practitioneers...do something surgical instead...surgery is where the real money is"

The thing is...sigh...whilst I "can" operate....let's just say anxiety and surgery don't exactly mesh well...and it's very frustrating when you feel nervous in the operating room...everyone expects you to be perfectly confident as you are cutting..because you are "the doctor"

At heart I am more of a clinician than a surgeon. But my Dad keeps grilling into me that surgeons are the one's who make money, so I should be a surgeon.

Maybe I could just push past my anxiety and study a surgical field ?...but why choose a career where I will be constantly stressing out and fighting back panic every time I'm about to enter theatre.

Paediatrics is what I really enjoy but people keep saying that it's a
"woman's" speciality and I should study something more manly like cardiology urology or surgery.

Now...the next problem is....for the 2nd year in a row, there are paediatrics scholarships up for grabs...last year I ignored it out of fear and a friend of mine got it...this year the exact same scholarship is being offered again.

Do I
1 ) Choose the field I love and accept that I may be struggling to make ends meet
2) Wait until one of the "prestigious" scholarships opens up, choose a speciality that I don't like, but that has greater earning potential.


My Dad has even told me if I study paediatrics and my wife studies neurology (that's her dream) then I will never make as much as her; and she will lose respect for me eventually and move on to a richer man.

PS...next dilemma....I'm engaged ...I'm worried what if I go study and the distance breaks our relationship....

Ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some people are so good at making these sort of choices...they just...know what to do.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-21-2019, 04:43 AM
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Why consider choosing to spend half your life doing something you don't like instead of doing something you do like? If it makes you a hundred trillion dollars, you can't buy your life back with that... not even a second of it. And if your future wife is going to be rich, obviously she doesn't need you to waste your life to take care of her.

And I sure wouldn't want to be operated on by somebody who's enduring it for the paycheck.

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-21-2019, 05:38 AM
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Struggling to make ends meet on a salary that according to Google averages $200k/year? If you have the chance to do something you'd love you should go for it. Screw what anyone else thinks, it's your life.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-21-2019, 12:56 PM
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The thing is...sigh...whilst I "can" operate....let's just say anxiety and surgery don't exactly mesh well...and it's very frustrating when you feel nervous in the operating room...everyone expects you to be perfectly confident as you are cutting..because you are "the doctor"
You're right, and that is something you should take into account. It's not for everyone.

Quote:
From since I've entered Medical school...my dream was to be a paediatrician.
Quote:
At heart I am more of a clinician than a surgeon. But my Dad keeps grilling into me that surgeons are the one's who make money, so I should be a surgeon.
It sounds like becoming a surgeon is more of your dads dream for you then yours. You have to consider your mental health as well otherwise you'll just burn out anyway.

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Paediatrics is what I really enjoy but people keep saying that it's a
"woman's" speciality and I should study something more manly like cardiology urology or surgery.
That's really dumb.

Quote:
My Dad has even told me if I study paediatrics and my wife studies neurology (that's her dream) then I will never make as much as her; and she will lose respect for me eventually and move on to a richer man.
If she's only with you based on how much you make then it's going to be a **** marriage anyway. Your dad is just trying to manipulate you to do what he wants.

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-21-2019, 07:17 PM
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Seems to me that a man* stands up for what they believe in, and for their real ambitions. Caving to other people's demands is not how you win people's respect; it's how you lose it.

The world will be better off with a good pediatrician than a bad surgeon. And only an insecure man worries about their wife making more than them. People are more than a paycheque. If you're happy, you'll be a better husband.

* Any mature human with integrity, really. But you seem to think your manhood is in question here.

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-21-2019, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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I think I will try going for it ... call it karma or God showing me a sign or something but I can't see the same scholarship present itself to me 2 years in a row and ignore it...

As some of you have said...a pediatrician salary is obviously going to be a LOT more than I am getting now as a GP..it might not be as much as the surgeon...but it would be something I enjoy.

Medicine IS VERY STRESSFUL...in and of itself...why the heck would I add to that stress by choosing a specialty I DON'T like simply because people say its what a man should do.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-21-2019, 08:42 PM
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Damn! I wish I had some big life decisions to make like - should I settle for $200k/year or just kneel down to my wife who earns oh,so much more money than I do. :/
Are you for real or are you just ****ing with peoples minds?
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-22-2019, 03:52 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thomasjune View Post
Damn! I wish I had some big life decisions to make like - should I settle for $200k/year or just kneel down to my wife who earns oh,so much more money than I do. :/
Are you for real or are you just ****ing with peoples minds?
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What's your problem man ? Isn't the point of SAS so we can ALL share our problems....
There's community guidelines on this sort of thing...
What ? So because I'm a doctor I don't have life problems ?

I hate that sort of thing. It's the same everywhere ...when nurses complain and go on strike everybody listens to them...but whenever a doctor complains about something ...the responses is always
"he's a doctor he's rich...how dare he complain, he shouldn't have any life problems"

For your information;
1) My girl AIN'T specialized yet. It's just that...yea...I'm guessing I'm letting my dad get into my head about "what if after you become a pediatrician she chooses a speciality that's bigger than pediatrics."

Look the same way we've been told not to make gender comparism type statements here ..because it undermines some else's struggle ... I don't appreciate you telling me my problems aren't important because "Im a rich doctor who has no problems.

Yea...I became an SAS member for a reason. Just like you. If I could easily figure out these things, and never worried about what other people think of me ...then I wouldn't be on this website in the first place !
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-22-2019, 06:14 AM Thread Starter
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Even when I ask my older sibblings they always say "talk to dad , dad always knows best,...dad guided all my life decisions...his advice is always on-point"

I hate that..it makes me feel like I'm living in my Dad's great shadow...like if I step even an inch out of his perfect plan for my life...then whatever decision I take that goes against his advice will blow up in my face.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-22-2019, 06:39 AM
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Seems to me that a man* stands up for what they believe in, and for their real ambitions. Caving to other people's demands is not how you win people's respect; it's how you lose it.

The world will be better off with a good pediatrician than a bad surgeon. And only an insecure man worries about their wife making more than them. People are more than a paycheque. If you're happy, you'll be a better husband.

* Any mature human with integrity, really. But you seem to think your manhood is in question here.
My brother makes less money (way less) than his wife and it isn't a situation you want to be in. She nearly walks him around like a pet and sometimes puts him down (it did get a little better over time, but at the beginning it was a nightmare. My brother even seriously considered asking for a divorce). If you can avoid this situation, better avoid it.

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-22-2019, 06:59 AM
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My brother makes less money (way less) than his wife and it isn't a situation you want to be in. She nearly walks him around like a pet and sometimes puts him down (it did get a little better over time, but at the beginning it was a nightmare. My brother even seriously considered asking for a divorce). If you can avoid this situation, better avoid it.
It seems a lot of problems like this are more the result of two people wanting the same role in the relationship and not being able to navigate something egalitarian. Some guys like being the submissive one in a relationship and they'd probably be a better fit for your brother's wife. I imagine in addition to being a high earner she also has a pretty dominant personality type? No excuse for abusive behaviour though.

Stuff like this is why I don't really think marriage is a good idea. Most people seem to jump into it impulsively without considering they're incompatible because most people are incompatible in the long term. Then they're legally stuck together and disincentivised from ending their relationship.

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-22-2019, 07:09 AM
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I think I will try going for it ... call it karma or God showing me a sign or something but I can't see the same scholarship present itself to me 2 years in a row and ignore it...

As some of you have said...a pediatrician salary is obviously going to be a LOT more than I am getting now as a GP..it might not be as much as the surgeon...but it would be something I enjoy.

Medicine IS VERY STRESSFUL...in and of itself...why the heck would I add to that stress by choosing a specialty I DON'T like simply because people say its what a man should do.
Which country do you live in?

In most European countries you cannot "simply chose" what you want to do. You have to first qualify for it. There are a number of "places" available. The most "seeked" specializations are generally the ones that are taken first. Only the very best get a chance to chose them.

Like Surgeon, Ophthalmologist, Cardiologist etc.

My anatomy teacher in university was a German surgeon. He told us you don't do surgery because of the money. You do it because you like it. Because you want to save lives. If you really are into money, you can do way more by becoming a plastic surgeon.
And you basically have zero life. You can be called at any moment for an emergency.

If I follow your logic. Let's say I get a "big state owned" pharmacy in 10-15 years and earn about 300K per year (which isn't to far stretched because there are only 82 pharmacies over here. That's about 7500 people for one single pharmacy. Most likely the highest ratio with Denmark.

Will it make me any better? Will I be allowed to look down on other health professionals?

This thread feels odd to me.

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-22-2019, 07:16 AM
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It seems a lot of problems like this are more the result of two people wanting the same role in the relationship and not being able to navigate something egalitarian. Some guys like being the submissive one in a relationship and they'd probably be a better fit for your brother's wife. I imagine in addition to being a high earner she also has a pretty dominant personality type? No excuse for abusive behaviour though.

Stuff like this is why I don't really think marriage is a good idea. Most people seem to jump into it impulsively without considering they're incompatible because most people are incompatible in the long term. Then they're legally stuck together and disincentivised from ending their relationship.
Yes. She likes to dominate. Before I graduated she would even try her crap on me. She completely stopped looking down on me now that I have "the upper hand" on her. Sure she stills earns a little more than I do, but it is pretty much over for her now. Her salary won't increase much further. Mine is still at the beginning and will keep increasing for the next 10 years steadily.

So it is not only a matter of having a dominant personality. But also being very materialistic and looking down on people who you consider "less". Personally I didn't change at all in this regard. I don't look down on people who earn less, neither do I look up on people who earn more. I simply don't mind.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-22-2019, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by VIncymon View Post
What's your problem man ? Isn't the point of SAS so we can ALL share our problems....
There's community guidelines on this sort of thing...
What ? So because I'm a doctor I don't have life problems ?

I hate that sort of thing. It's the same everywhere ...when nurses complain and go on strike everybody listens to them...but whenever a doctor complains about something ...the responses is always
"he's a doctor he's rich...how dare he complain, he shouldn't have any life problems"

For your information;
1) My girl AIN'T specialized yet. It's just that...yea...I'm guessing I'm letting my dad get into my head about "what if after you become a pediatrician she chooses a speciality that's bigger than pediatrics."

Look the same way we've been told not to make gender comparism type statements here ..because it undermines some else's struggle ... I don't appreciate you telling me my problems aren't important because "Im a rich doctor who has no problems.

Yea...I became an SAS member for a reason. Just like you. If I could easily figure out these things, and never worried about what other people think of me ...then I wouldn't be on this website in the first place !
Yeah you're right. I had a long day yesterday but that's no excuse to act like that on a support site. Sorry about that.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-22-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by EndTimes View Post
My brother makes less money (way less) than his wife and it isn't a situation you want to be in. She nearly walks him around like a pet and sometimes puts him down (it did get a little better over time, but at the beginning it was a nightmare. My brother even seriously considered asking for a divorce). If you can avoid this situation, better avoid it.
Without condoning her treatment, how is the risk that men face different from the risk that women face if they make less than their husbands? Many husbands treat their wives in precisely this way and for the same reason. Should women not also avoid marrying men who make more than they do?

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My sister makes less money (way less) than her husband and it isn't a situation you want to be in. He nearly walks her around like a pet and sometimes puts her down (it did get a little better over time, but at the beginning it was a nightmare. My sister even seriously considered asking for a divorce). If you can avoid this situation, better avoid it.
Now you sound like a feminist.

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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-22-2019, 12:25 PM
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My brother makes less money (way less) than his wife and it isn't a situation you want to be in. She nearly walks him around like a pet and sometimes puts him down (it did get a little better over time, but at the beginning it was a nightmare. My brother even seriously considered asking for a divorce). If you can avoid this situation, better avoid it.
I'm sure that totally depends on the people involved. I don't think it's ever good to make blanket statements about relationships or marriage - it's different for everyone.

My wife always earned more than I did. For quite a while I was basically like a house-husband too, did all the cooking, shopping etc. But if anything I was the "dominant" one in the relationship. (she used to have a hell of a temper though and we used to argue - not much now though)

It just depends on the people involved.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-26-2019, 08:02 AM Thread Starter
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Without condoning her treatment, how is the risk that men face different from the risk that women face if they make less than their husbands? Many husbands treat their wives in precisely this way and for the same reason. Should women not also avoid marrying men who make more than they do?

Now you sound like a feminist.
Um...I couldn't resist the bait...I don't want to devolve into gender comparism here but...I feel like, either you really don't understand the social pressure I'm talking about ...or you are deliberately ignoring it because it does not fit into your world view of how things should work.

Ok...let me see how I can put it. In many societies, despite the strides made in gender equity, there is still the strong stereotype that the man should make more than the woman IE provide; and that if the woman makes significantly much more than her man...she will lose respect for him, start cheating on him, boss him around etc etc....I'm not saying that it happens like this 100% of the time...but I'm just saying that plenty people still believe this...

And that's part of the problem, even though the husband and wife are ok with their situation of the woman being breadwinner...onlookers... constantly make snide remarks about it...and it takes *****load of personal strength to not let it make you feel insecure.

Heck..even moving into my gf's apartment was a big problem. So many commenters "why are you moving into her place?" "you are putting yourself in her domain" "You are giving her control" "you should get your own place, and tell her to move in with you.

...at the time it was just the best decision for us as couple finance-wise.

If the sexes were reversed and it was a woman moving into her boyfriend's apartment, nobody would question it.


So yes...I hope this answers your question. The social pressure is different.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-26-2019, 12:50 PM
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Um...I couldn't resist the bait...I don't want to devolve into gender comparism here but...I feel like, either you really don't understand the social pressure I'm talking about ...or you are deliberately ignoring it because it does not fit into your world view of how things should work.

Ok...let me see how I can put it. In many societies, despite the strides made in gender equity, there is still the strong stereotype that the man should make more than the woman IE provide; and that if the woman makes significantly much more than her man...she will lose respect for him, start cheating on him, boss him around etc etc....I'm not saying that it happens like this 100% of the time...but I'm just saying that plenty people still believe this...

And that's part of the problem, even though the husband and wife are ok with their situation of the woman being breadwinner...onlookers... constantly make snide remarks about it...and it takes *****load of personal strength to not let it make you feel insecure.

Heck..even moving into my gf's apartment was a big problem. So many commenters "why are you moving into her place?" "you are putting yourself in her domain" "You are giving her control" "you should get your own place, and tell her to move in with you.

...at the time it was just the best decision for us as couple finance-wise.

If the sexes were reversed and it was a woman moving into her boyfriend's apartment, nobody would question it.


So yes...I hope this answers your question. The social pressure is different.
Yes, I agree, that's how the stereotypes work. I'm sure that those differences in social pressure exist for most people. But bear with me.

The fact is, husbands who make more than their wives often treat their wives in exactly the same way that higher-earning wives treat their lower-earning husbands. And they do it (at least to a large degree) because they make more money and feel entitled to treat them that way. This is such an obvious stereotype -- the successful man treating his wife like a shiny toy -- that it should be familiar to everyone, and it's part of what feminists are talking about when they talk about sexism.

What @EndTimes is warning you about is not to end up in the kind of relationship that women find themselves in all the time. Avoiding a relationship like that isn't bad -- he's giving sound advice; what makes it hypocritical is the idea that this is a danger peculiar to men and that only men should worry about it. Some men might find themselves in this kind of relationship, but the majority of women are probably already in that kind of relationship. But the stereotypes make that fact invisible to most men, which is why they can unironically warn other men to avoid ending up in the kind of relationship that women routinely find themselves in.

Now, because it is a norm, women aren't looked down on, in general, for finding themselves in this kind of relationship. You're right, if a woman moves into her bf's apartment, very few people will remark on it. And if her husband treats her "like a pet and sometimes puts her down", well, that's just men (male chauvinism). That doesn't reduce the harm the husband's behavior has on his wife, but it does largely eliminate the harm that men in the same situation experience from people outside the relationship. (Which is what you're talking about.)

Additionally, a woman who makes more than her husband can use the stereotype against him -- (a) she can not only feel superior and treat her husband with contempt because she makes more money (just like a higher-earning husband may treat his wife); (b) she can also invoke cultural stereotypes to emasculate him. Which is what men are really worried about. But these are two separate kinds of harm. And they both only exist to the extent that people reinforce the stereotypes; ie. to the extent that people believe that making more than their spouse entitles them to feel superior, and that a man is not a "real" man if he makes less than his wife. Which, ofc, are both completely untrue.

Now, before you run off with "Aha! See, it's worse for men, because men are emasculated by their wives and by people outside the relationship!" you have to understand that, culturally, all women have already been "emasculated". Whether or not a man is treated like a man does depend, unfortunately, to a large degree, on how successful he is; men who are failures stop being "real men". But if people do not hold women to the same standard, it's because many people consider women inherently inferior to men. And husbands can use this stereotype against their wives -- (a) he can not only feel superior and treat his wife with contempt because he makes more money; (b) he can also invoke cultural stereotypes to remind her that -- because she is female -- she is inferior and will never be as good as him. How do you think that feels? Well, I imagine it's pretty emasculating. Only, in this case, there's nothing the woman can do to change it. At least her husband can possibly find a better job.

I'm not saying it won't be difficult for you to bear up under that kind of pressure, because it's real. All I'm doing is pointing out that if you were the wife instead of the husband, things wouldn't be better for you, they'd just be different. Instead of fearing emasculation by your wife and people outside the relationship, you'd have to deal with feeling like a second class person in a more general sense, in most situations. (If you find yourself sympathetic to the plight of men in general, I guarantee you you'd be a feminist right now if you'd been born a woman.)

Imo, it's more "manly" to bear up under those pressures than to cave to other people's opinions. Being overly worried about what other people think of you isn't exactly manly. It takes guts and determination to live the life you want to live when everyone is telling you to live the way they want you to live. Whether it's more important to you to pursue your own happiness or avoid trouble is something only you can decide, but fwiw, I've tried to avoid trouble most of my life and now I regret every minute of it. I just don't want you to feel like you've wasted your life the way I have.

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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-26-2019, 02:56 PM
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