Are Normies Living In Paradise? - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 03:45 PM Thread Starter
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Are Normies Living In Paradise?


I've mostly been a loner for my life except for a few occasions. Notably in middle school. Back then I had a few good friends who I used to interact with daily (including one girl who I had a crush on and went out with for some time).



I remember feeling emotionally high during that stage. Almost as if I had moved into an upper dimension. I'm not saying everything was perfect and magical, I'm just saying that I felt like a left a previous dimension (a dimension which was very familiar to me and where I've been for the majority of my life).



And this new dimension I was in felt more colorful and vibrant (it had positive aspects as well as negative ones), and I felt strangely more energetic here (emotionally energetic)....not necessarily physically energetic.



And the previous dimension I was in wasn't necessarily bad. I could enjoy life in that dimension too but it lacked something. The difference between this previous dimension and this new dimension was kind of like the difference between having a strong cup of coffee and not having the coffee. It wasn't bad, it just felt like it lacked punch.


Makes me wonder....is that how normies feel like all the time? Are they forever living in this upper dimension? It must be normal to them. They don't think of it in terms of dimensions. To them it must be just '' life '' because they have nothing to compare it to.
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 04:25 PM
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Some probably are, but not all those who appear normie are normie, I wonder what it's like to experience paradise as an adult though.






And all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death
Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow,
A poor player that strut's and fret's his hour upon the stage and is heard no more,
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
- Macbeth
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 05:44 PM
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They still experience the same losses and pains. And many have worse ones, this one guy I used to talk with doesn't have anxiety but his intestinal system is two hairs from killing him. I'll take anxiety over a colostomy bag.
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 06:00 PM
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No, people without social anxiety disorder definitely don't have perfect lives, they have their own struggles like everyone else.
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 09:27 PM
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The human mind has an amazing ability to adjust itself to become miserable with any experience, even if you're a billionaire playboy with a tropical island and immortality and 3 wishes. Once you experience a lifestyle for a while it becomes your new baseline and any slight dip feels devastating.

It felt great to you because you'd only been there a little while.

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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 10:21 PM
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You're only looking at a single dimension.

You have problem X. Briefly, you experience what it's like not to have problem X, and it feels like "paradise" to be free of that problem. You imagine everyone who does not have that problem to be in paradise all the time.

But the paradise that they inhabit is only a paradise in that single dimension. All those people have their own problems (Y, Z, A, B, C, whatever) and those problems make their life hell. You don't have some of those problems, whatever they are (eg. cancer), so, from their perspective, you are living in paradise.

But I don't believe that everyone experiences the same amount of pain, or that life sucks equally for everyone. Some people are happier than other people, and it's because they have fewer problems. If you have problems X, Y, Z, and someone else only has problems Z and A, then they are relatively happier than you are. Problems Z and A still make that person's life hell, and they might be very unhappy, but that doesn't mean life can't get worse. (Trust me, it can always get worse. Pain is an infinite resource.)

All pain is real pain and everyone's pain deserves our respect. Even if another person's pain seems trivial to you, it is still a real pain, it exists objectively in their experience, and they deserve our sympathy. Unless you have a specific problem yourself, you have no way of knowing how painful it is, so to dismiss it, because you can't understand why it is so painful, is uncharitable.

People who don't have SAD will never understand why it's so painful to socialize; but likewise, if you've never been in a painful relationship, you're not in any position to judge how painful they can be, and it's unfair to trivialize the experience of a person in a painful relationship by making statements like, "Well, at least you have a relationship!"

In science, ideology tends to corrupt; absolute ideology [corrupts] absolutely" - Robert Nisbet
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 01:09 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by blue2 View Post
Some probably are, but not all those who appear normie are normie, I wonder what it's like to experience paradise as an adult though.

Yeah I know what you mean. I also don't really like dividing people into normies and SA people, I like to think of people as individuals but sometimes its convenient to use that term.
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 01:11 AM
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No. Although the closer you are to getting your needs met, the less unhappy you should be, all other things being equal.

SA is just one of many turds the universe forces down peoples throats.

Enough about me, lets talk about you, what do you think about me?
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 01:38 AM Thread Starter
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You're only looking at a single dimension.

All pain is real pain and everyone's pain deserves our respect. Even if another person's pain seems trivial to you, it is still a real pain, it exists objectively in their experience, and they deserve our sympathy. Unless you have a specific problem yourself, you have no way of knowing how painful it is, so to dismiss it, because you can't understand why it is so painful, is uncharitable.

People who don't have SAD will never understand why it's so painful to socialize; but likewise, if you've never been in a painful relationship, you're not in any position to judge how painful they can be, and it's unfair to trivialize the experience of a person in a painful relationship by making statements like, "Well, at least you have a relationship!"

Hold up now I'm not saying that other people don't feel pain or that their pain doesn't deserve any respect. Maybe I was careless in the way I phrased the title of this thread. My definition of paradise here is what a lot of SA people yearn for - a social life, a partner and friendship. That world feels different from the SA world. I was just pondering on how different people perceive those things. There are pains in that world too and some of them might be even more intense than pains in the SA world.



To me the difference between the SA world and the other world is like this: You're in a garden and you're wearing shoes. If you take off your shoes, you can run around and feel the pleasant grass....but you also get hurt by the rocks and feel pain. You feel both. But the important thing is that you're feeling something. This is the higher dimension.



To me the SA world feels like just keeping your shoes on. When your shoes are on, you feel nothing. You don't feel the grass, but at the same time you're protected from the rocks and the pain that that brings. That's what it feels like to me. Emotional numbness.
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 01:53 AM
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it's probably a bell curve? isn't everything lol. but yeah a bunch of people are actually having a good time I hope. if everyone is generally at least as unhappy as me then that is quite troubling.

there are problems of feeling and also material and social problems. at least lots of people are better off materially and socially, even if it doesn't directly improve feelings automatically. that counts for something.

"I take what is mine. I pay the iron price."
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 02:03 AM
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I think to some degree you have to be delusional to be happy in this world. You literally have to believe slavery is freedom or there's no way you'd be happy being a slave.

So most people probably delude themselves to the point to where they don't realize they should be miserable.

/WYSD
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by DukeDuck View Post
Hold up now I'm not saying that other people don't feel pain or that their pain doesn't deserve any respect. Maybe I was careless in the way I phrased the title of this thread. My definition of paradise here is what a lot of SA people yearn for - a social life, a partner and friendship. That world feels different from the SA world. I was just pondering on how different people perceive those things. There are pains in that world too and some of them might be even more intense than pains in the SA world.



To me the difference between the SA world and the other world is like this: You're in a garden and you're wearing shoes. If you take off your shoes, you can run around and feel the pleasant grass....but you also get hurt by the rocks and feel pain. You feel both. But the important thing is that you're feeling something. This is the higher dimension.



To me the SA world feels like just keeping your shoes on. When your shoes are on, you feel nothing. You don't feel the grass, but at the same time you're protected from the rocks and the pain that that brings. That's what it feels like to me. Emotional numbness.
Oh, I wasn't saying that you were minimizing anyone's pain. Sorry if it came across that way. I was thinking about the many times I have seen other people do that and I was speaking in general. It's the kind of thing you see (for example) in incel communities, which is part of what makes those communities so toxic.

From my perspective as a trans person, it seems like all cis people are living in paradise. But I doubt you experience your own life that way. Your freedoms are invisible to you and leave no subjective trace unless a person like me brings the contrast to your attention.

In science, ideology tends to corrupt; absolute ideology [corrupts] absolutely" - Robert Nisbet
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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 05:08 PM
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No, people without social anxiety can have all sorts of problems. Misery comes in many different forms.

But I do suppose life is much richer and more enjoyable if you have a number of friends and can relate to other people easily. Having good social skills helps in many ways. Makes it easier to find a job, easier to influence others to help you or take a chance on you, always have someone to do activities with.
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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 08:13 PM
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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 04:11 PM
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Yeah, people can talk about how normies "have their own problems." I don't give a f*** almost none of them understand first hand the way isolation makes life meaningless.
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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 11:31 PM Thread Starter
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Having good social skills helps in many ways. Makes it easier to find a job, easier to influence others to help you or take a chance on you, always have someone to do activities with.
You've pretty much summed up life in its entirety here. Having good social skills makes life better.
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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, people can talk about how normies "have their own problems." I don't give a f*** almost none of them understand first hand the way isolation makes life meaningless.
I think its possible to have meaning in your life while being isolated. But isolation makes your emotional strength go for a toss. Having friends and a social support system that's always there for you makes you feel safe and confident.
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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-17-2019, 10:14 AM
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Do people with SA not realise that what they have is a paradox? So you're petrified basically to be around other people or talk or whatever so you avoid situations where people are as much as you can to keep the fear away or limit the fear as much as possible. Or if you're in a place where you're forced to interact such as work etc.. you limit your interactions cause you're scared of the interactions/perceived judgement about yourself that you think others are making or you just feel very anxious or uncomfy there. You're scared of people, basically, so you mostly by choice shy away. So then this limiting behaviour causes you to be ,somewhat or almost entirely excluded/isolated/ostracised (I guess depending on how bad the SA is) But then you complain that you're isolated/excluded\lonely and you want people to like you or to hang out with/BF/GF etc etc.... But then you're too anxious to cope with those things to be comfortable and you do more shying away/limiting behaviour.

Surely if you're petrified of people/interacting/talking, then being away from people should make you happier/more relaxed/ free of the fear of judgement? But shying away as you do makes you lonely/frustrated and wanting human contact? Put you in that human contact and you want out of it again. It's paradoxical and I'm not sure I understand why.

I don't like large animals like cows and horses etc. So putting me in a field to work as a farmer I wouldn't like it. So I'm basically scared/uncomfy\uneasy around large animals in case they charge or go nuts and they weigh a lot so I know I could be injured. So then, I'd Do my best to avoid that job to get away from the big animals.. It'd make no sense then for me to be frustrated/lonely/craving to be back with the big animals in the field. I'd be happy as hell to avoid what made me scared in that situation.

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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-17-2019, 12:57 PM
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I think its possible to have meaning in your life while being isolated. But isolation makes your emotional strength go for a toss. Having friends and a social support system that's always there for you makes you feel safe and confident.
Yeah exactly. Seems like when a person is isolated they can never feel quite right emotionally.
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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-17-2019, 01:03 PM
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Do people with SA not realise that what they have is a paradox? So you're petrified basically to be around other people or talk or whatever so you avoid situations where people are as much as you can to keep the fear away or limit the fear as much as possible. Or if you're in a place where you're forced to interact such as work etc.. you limit your interactions cause you're scared of the interactions/perceived judgement about yourself that you think others are making or you just feel very anxious or uncomfy there. You're scared of people, basically, so you mostly by choice shy away. So then this limiting behaviour causes you to be ,somewhat or almost entirely excluded/isolated/ostracised (I guess depending on how bad the SA is) But then you complain that you're isolated/excluded\lonely and you want people to like you or to hang out with/BF/GF etc etc.... But then you're too anxious to cope with those things to be comfortable and you do more shying away/limiting behaviour.

Surely if you're petrified of people/interacting/talking, then being away from people should make you happier/more relaxed/ free of the fear of judgement? But shying away as you do makes you lonely/frustrated and wanting human contact? Put you in that human contact and you want out of it again. It's paradoxical and I'm not sure I understand why.

I don't like large animals like cows and horses etc. So putting me in a field to work as a farmer I wouldn't like it. So I'm basically scared/uncomfy\uneasy around large animals in case they charge or go nuts and they weigh a lot so I know I could be injured. So then, I'd Do my best to avoid that job to get away from the big animals.. It'd make no sense then for me to be frustrated/lonely/craving to be back with the big animals in the field. I'd be happy as hell to avoid what made me scared in that situation.
I agree with your observations and would sum up the problem like this:

Virtually everyone, including people with SA, needs interpersonal connections to be mentally healthy. But for us with SA, it's hard to be around people comfortably, so we avoid them, and as a result it's very difficult to form interpersonal connections. Avoidance is a symptom of SA, but it does not cure the pain caused by lack of meaningful relationships.
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