Positive Thinking, the greatest Myth! - Social Anxiety Forum
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-22-2009, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
SAS Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Algeria
Gender: Male
Posts: 27

Positive Thinking, the greatest Myth!


positive thinking, law of attraction, or whatever it's called. i find it one of the most appealing theorical concepts in psychology, though, the most irrealistic in practice.
i find it funny, when positive thinking coaches, tell you that when you feel depressed; "just be happy", or "change you thoughts in a positive way", or " be optimistic", well i'd say that if i knew how to be happy, or how to bring these god dumn positive thoughts into my head, i wouldn't be depressed in the first place.
even CBT and psychology pioneers like david burns, and T.beck stress on the fact, saying positive statments such as "i'm feling happy and confident" is of little benefit, when you're actually telling yourself "i'm a piece of rat ****"... that's why CBT is the most effective therapy, cause it focuses on logical thinking, not Positive thinking.

bottom line is, what i think is, that the first step is to deal with the problems in a realistic way, than, positive thinking can take place, when anxiety and depression is vanished.
hihoum is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-22-2009, 03:59 PM
crazy
 
LostPancake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: walkabout
Gender: Male
Age: 50
Posts: 2,067
i think you're right - if you try to tell yourself something that's blatantly untrue, it can actually increase your anxiety. i've certainly experienced that, in trying to 'reprogram' myself. it almost kind of works, but not really.

the things that make my anxiety go down are when i force myself to acknowledge painful truths, which i keep trying to ignore!

and it's one of those weird catch-22's, like if i tell myself i'm ugly, and no one will like me, then i'm more myself, and then actually get along with people better, even if i feel more depressed. which then triggers the thoughts that i'm okay again, in a stupid cycle. if i could keep myself in the depressive frame of mind i'd be better off.
LostPancake is offline  
post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-22-2009, 05:30 PM
SAS Member
 
STKinTHEmud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CA
Gender: Male
Age: 37
Posts: 1,221
"Blatantly untrue?" You've got to realize just how much subjectivity comes into play in any of our perceptions. You may think you're ugly, but even if you have a giant goiter sticking out of you face, you'll probably find someone that thinks you're attractive. When you tell yourself that you're not ugly, it's not "blatantly untrue," it's a subjective interpretation that someone out there is bound to agree with. The very word "ugly" as well as a lot of what we judge ourselves to be is neither true nor untrue.

Positive thinking has helped me quite a bit, and even though there are moments that I can't seem to bring myself out of depression, I find the next day, after I've had some time, I feel much better by thinking positive. With practice, I think I'll be able to beat those negative thoughts most if not every time they occur.
STKinTHEmud is offline  
 
post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-22-2009, 07:00 PM
SAS Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Gender: Male
Age: 33
Posts: 6,814
I understand the frustration when someone simply tells you to be positive. It's too vague. There are ways I've found that have helped me achieve this mind state through personal goals and staying active, but that's me. It's tough to tell someone who doesn't have a positive outlook on life to be positive as it would for a positive person to do otherwise. I think motivation does a lot for positive thinking as it will get you up and going, but it's also a combination of things I would assume. However, thinking positive comes and goes like confidence and other things. Staying positive means more than just thinking positive but doing things that make you feel better and raises self-worth which helps encourage the emergence of positive thinking. You can write, play music, work towards goals, workout, whatever it is that helps your overall outlook on life. I really don't know much about CBT but my guess is it tries to promote positive thinking. It may not work for you but for others it can be effective. I always find myself writing, that helps me.
bsd3355 is offline  
post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 03:27 AM
ntl
SAS Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Gender: Male
Age: 34
Posts: 122
I agree. You can't just start marking wild positive statements and expect to go from complete negativity to absolute positivity. People who say those sorts of things are usually people who think positively naturally so can't understand how people could think any different.

I'm in the middle of the Overcoming Social Anxiety step by step by Dr Richards a CBT tape series and one of the things he stresses is that you can't just go from completely negative to completely positive in one step. Your mind won't be able to comprehend or believe such a change. The trick is to go neutral first. So instead of saying "I'm the best looking guy in the world" you say "Maybe I'm not such a bad looking person" and instead of "Everyone will want to be friends with me" you say "There are probably people out there who would possibly like me"

The trick is to use words like "maybe" and "probably" to make statements seem more believable.
ntl is offline  
post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 01:28 PM
subtastic
 
pita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,692
pita is offline  
post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-24-2009, 03:52 AM
ntl
SAS Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Gender: Male
Age: 34
Posts: 122
interesting article
ntl is offline  
post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-24-2009, 04:32 AM
4 + 1 = MOO
 
Your Crazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,410
Quote:
Originally Posted by hihoum View Post
positive thinking, law of attraction, or whatever it's called. i find it one of the most appealing theorical concepts in psychology, though, the most irrealistic in practice.
Read the book 'The Secret'. You'll laugh your *** off.

"Okay, fine. Let's all act like humans. 'Look at me. Boy, do I love sweating. Let's convert beef and leaves into energy and excrete them later and go shopping.'"- GLaDOS
Your Crazy is offline  
post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-24-2009, 04:41 AM
3rd SAS Battalion
 
britisharrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glasgow, UK
Gender: Male
Age: 34
Posts: 885
Sorry but I thought the whole point of this section of the forum was to be positive? For people to come and share their positive experiences and positive intentions? Whether you think it's bull**** or not.
britisharrow is offline  
post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-24-2009, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
SAS Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Algeria
Gender: Male
Posts: 27
well, that's the point of this website, is to share experiences about stuff that works, or don't. i only wanted to share my experience, andf you're totally free not to agree with that.
hihoum is offline  
post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-24-2009, 05:51 PM
SAS Member
 
power2theweak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by STKinTHEmud View Post
"Blatantly untrue?" You've got to realize just how much subjectivity comes into play in any of our perceptions.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is also full of the overcoming of it."
~Helen Keller
power2theweak is offline  
post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-24-2009, 06:14 PM
SAS Member
 
power2theweak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 665

I think it's only natural that people with low self-esteem would experience some cognitive dissonance when repeating a new statement like, I am a lovable person. This thought is the opposite of how they normally think. This doesn't prove that positive affirmations aren't helpful, though. Positive affirmations must be repeated often until they are truly believed. How many times did the low self-esteem subjects repeat the new statement in the study? It takes time and repetition for affirmations to become effective.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is also full of the overcoming of it."
~Helen Keller
power2theweak is offline  
post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-25-2009, 04:37 AM
SAS Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,709
My Mood: Sad
I am going to be a great artist some day !

Primary, secondary school and college go by, you have not won a single prize in any art competitions.

Still think you're gonna be a great artist ?


I think this whole positive thinking idea hinges a lot on the ability to ignore failures. Something i am still trying to master. This "you must go to college, and get all A's to go to university" society of ours, makes it difficult to cope with personal failure, though.
VIncymon is offline  
post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-26-2009, 09:31 AM
3rd SAS Battalion
 
britisharrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glasgow, UK
Gender: Male
Age: 34
Posts: 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIncymon View Post
I am going to be a great artist some day !

Primary, secondary school and college go by, you have not won a single prize in any art competitions.

Still think you're gonna be a great artist ?


I think this whole positive thinking idea hinges a lot on the ability to ignore failures. Something i am still trying to master. This "you must go to college, and get all A's to go to university" society of ours, makes it difficult to cope with personal failure, though.
We are not what we do, we are what we are. If you are positive about what you are, it does not matter what you do.

A 20 dollar bill is worth twenty dollars no matter what you do with it, it could be used to feed the hungry, it could be used to buy heroin. It can be stamped on, it can be called the most disgusting twenty dollar note in the world.

It's still worth twenty dollars.

True worth is to accept yourself whether you're an artist or not, being a great artist will not make you feel any better if you do not feel value in yourself.

You are worth a lot more than twenty dollars, a human being is priceless.

You are valuable as you are, regardless of what anyone says of you or the mistakes you make. This can take time and a lot of effort to realise and to believe, but having that sense of self-worth is the key to changing everything.

If you have that self-worth, it doesn't matter if you're sweeping the streets or painting the Sistine chapel. You will walk down the street with self-acceptance as a human being.

Work on loving and accepting yourself and the achievements will come easily.
britisharrow is offline  
post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-26-2009, 11:27 AM
SAS Member
 
power2theweak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by britisharrow View Post
We are not what we do, we are what we are. If you are positive about what you are, it does not matter what you do.

A 20 dollar bill is worth twenty dollars no matter what you do with it, it could be used to feed the hungry, it could be used to buy heroin. It can be stamped on, it can be called the most disgusting twenty dollar note in the world.

It's still worth twenty dollars.

True worth is to accept yourself whether you're an artist or not, being a great artist will not make you feel any better if you do not feel value in yourself.

You are worth a lot more than twenty dollars, a human being is priceless.

You are valuable as you are, regardless of what anyone says of you or the mistakes you make. This can take time and a lot of effort to realise and to believe, but having that sense of self-worth is the key to changing everything.

If you have that self-worth, it doesn't matter if you're sweeping the streets or painting the Sistine chapel. You will walk down the street with self-acceptance as a human being.

Work on loving and accepting yourself and the achievements will come easily.


"Although the world is full of suffering, it is also full of the overcoming of it."
~Helen Keller
power2theweak is offline  
post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-26-2009, 12:03 PM
Little Winged One
 
Still Waters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: A very fragile niche
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,446
My Mood: Angelic
I think there's something to be said for positive thinking-but it also has to be combined with realistic thinking. I know someone who's hailed positive thinking as the answer to most all of lifes problems for years.- He goes thru life with mental blinders on refusing to see any negatives - He's had one heck of a miserable life because of it. The book-"The Secret" was a major rip off - If you have a difficult life your seen as a failure because you weren't adept at grabbing on to the happiness.-Those with illness,dealing with starvation,addictions,depression,etc.etc. brought it on themselves thru negative thinking.

-Work on Forgetting the Self-

"Never try to appear to be more than you are but always try to be more than you appear."
Still Waters is offline  
post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-26-2009, 01:32 PM
SAS Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Gender: Male
Age: 32
Posts: 532
how convenient a negative thread in the positivity forum, why isnt this moved to frustration? its like blood on a white carpet

emotions are lies, chemicals completly unrelated to the outside world and closely tied to your interpretation of it, they evolved as mechanisms that keep you from doing somehting or reward you from doing something.

if you FEEL bad is related to your thoughts and not to whats outside, it is your thoughts that make you feel bad.

Having said that you cannot control your subconcious thoughts, you can keep telling yourself youre brad pitt when inside you feel liek golum, however the only part you do control are your concious thoughts, and concious thought 'propaganda' eventually becomes subconcious thoughts, thats how its meant to work.

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/...erience-69794/ heres my take on it.

no freakign crap that thinking "im happy" doesnt work dude, its not meant to work like that, its not easy its a process theres no magic pills here.

"Identity Level Change; Total Self Trust and Never Looking Back"

Add me on Facebook: Gary Uranga

Gary is offline  
post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-26-2009, 02:33 PM
SAS Member
 
STKinTHEmud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CA
Gender: Male
Age: 37
Posts: 1,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by britisharrow View Post
We are not what we do, we are what we are. If you are positive about what you are, it does not matter what you do.

A 20 dollar bill is worth twenty dollars no matter what you do with it, it could be used to feed the hungry, it could be used to buy heroin. It can be stamped on, it can be called the most disgusting twenty dollar note in the world.

It's still worth twenty dollars.

True worth is to accept yourself whether you're an artist or not, being a great artist will not make you feel any better if you do not feel value in yourself.

You are worth a lot more than twenty dollars, a human being is priceless.

You are valuable as you are, regardless of what anyone says of you or the mistakes you make. This can take time and a lot of effort to realise and to believe, but having that sense of self-worth is the key to changing everything.

If you have that self-worth, it doesn't matter if you're sweeping the streets or painting the Sistine chapel. You will walk down the street with self-acceptance as a human being.

Work on loving and accepting yourself and the achievements will come easily.
Good analogy!
STKinTHEmud is offline  
post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-28-2009, 11:28 PM
3rd SAS Battalion
 
britisharrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glasgow, UK
Gender: Male
Age: 34
Posts: 885
I must give credit to my therapist for that analogy.
britisharrow is offline  
post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-29-2009, 09:25 AM
Still Running
 
odicepaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Richmond VA
Gender: Male
Posts: 387
--"i find it funny, when positive thinking coaches, tell you that when you feel depressed; "just be happy", or "change you thoughts in a positive way", or " be optimistic", well i'd say that if i knew how to be happy, or how to bring these god dumn positive thoughts into my head,"--

I can feel your unger!!!Ha, I have read all the books and tried keeping positive thoughts going round in my head mixed with the fear and dread of the judgmental and mocking community around me. It is hard to be positive when every face that looks at you in Wal-Mart is mocking and laughing at you. (perceptibly)
odicepaul is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Not positive thinking, but positive feelings idonthave_SA Positive Thinking 4 08-08-2014 06:00 AM
Positive Thinking Naoreir Positive Thinking 2 07-30-2008 04:16 PM
Positive Thinking Mr. Orange Coping With Social Anxiety 1 06-27-2008 12:01 AM
Here's some positive thinking... soundsgood Positive Thinking 11 09-28-2006 10:33 AM
Positive Thinking knglerxt Positive Thinking 8 03-13-2006 06:50 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome