Who do you think will win? - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #1 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-23-2020, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
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Who do you think will win?


It's clear that this virus has showed all the cracks, inequalities, and selfishness of society. For whatever reason it was poorly contained and effective treatments have not been getting applied to patients. And thanks to the fake trade war being started, it's also clear that everyone is being forced to do all their activity on devices under heavy surveillance and that high tech walls are being built across boundaries around the world. Since both political sides essentially use the same means to an end my question is this: who will win after technology is done disrupting everything. Will it be those who already have power or those trying to get power??? Are Zuckerburg Bezos Gates Ellison Pichai and Musk going to be free to act with total impunity over the livelihood, health, and information of everybody or is something going to give? Will we even have free agency after all this is done or will it become Minority Report?
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post #2 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-23-2020, 03:16 PM
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The people that already have money and power will continue to have money and power. The real nightmare is because of people's fear our nation is poised to restrict our freedoms more in a similar way that the patriot act did. Our ability to travel, use public spaces, and even eat what we want. Our current federal administration is thankfully opposed towards this but our federal government aren't the only actors here. The more people riot and protest in violent ways the more reaction they're going to receive in restrictions of their freedom. The protestors are pawns meant to destabilize our nation and they're having too much fun pretending to be revolutionaries to realize it.

In the end America won't be the same but it definitely won't be better for it. It'll more stagger on.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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post #3 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-23-2020, 07:29 PM
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this stuff: https://theintercept.com/2020/05/08/...hock-doctrine/

I predict it will go on for quite some time. people are too comfortable for purposeful radical change so they'll end up with whatever is forced on them. it's all going to fall over as climate crisis gets worse anyway.

I alone cannot change the world, but I can cast a stone across the waters to create many ripples. ― Mother Teresa
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post #4 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-24-2020, 05:26 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Nonsensical View Post
The people that already have money and power will continue to have money and power. The real nightmare is because of people's fear our nation is poised to restrict our freedoms more in a similar way that the patriot act did. Our ability to travel, use public spaces, and even eat what we want. Our current federal administration is thankfully opposed towards this but our federal government aren't the only actors here. The more people riot and protest in violent ways the more reaction they're going to receive in restrictions of their freedom. The protestors are pawns meant to destabilize our nation and they're having too much fun pretending to be revolutionaries to realize it.

In the end America won't be the same but it definitely won't be better for it. It'll more stagger on.
I have to admit I agree with this. Although I must say, America has been the only developed nation to have ZERO telecommunications and privacy regulations and for years we've found ourselves in a position where things like gang stalking and cancel culture can target and destroy the lives of minorities/ethnicities/differing views/people you just plain don't like. I think some regulation would be good. But it can't go too far. The founding fathers intended for government to PROTECT the freedoms of EVERYBODY, not take them away. I would figure breaking up the monopolies would be a no-brainer by now though >_<
(PS lol @Beatnik the whole scapegoating people of different religions/views is a super old canard. The soviets tried to make jewish people look powerful and rich so everybody would blame them. I can think of one other famous regime that did the same thing. It showed that the Stanford Prison Experiment is absolutely true. If you give power to people and tell them to respect authority they WILL become monsters and eat each other alive. That way you can stay at the top. Oldest trick in the book! Nowadays they call it 'wedge issues'!)
@andy1984 , I agree. Complacency and instant gratification always win out. And that article is really good since it points out the hyper-normalization all the corporations are forcing on us (though I'm not sure how much I trust the founder of eBay for my news lol). As the other two posters show, division and fighting between people instead of everybody coming together as one is also a massive power play.
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post #5 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-24-2020, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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I also just wanted to say you can't trust any of the 'warriors' or 'patriots' who get WAY too worked up about some 'sense of duty' or 'social issue'. These people don't really care about any of the issues they say they do, right or left. They usually have some ulterior motive. They could be paid influencers. They could be 'volunteers' for something and getting some kind of perks. Or they could just flat out be corrupting the system from the inside out through connections and rallying. The point is, they're ambitious and liars. They're the same people who were informants to the Stasi, the same people who participated in Kristallnacht. When the orders are evil, you say No. You don't burn the Jews. Just saying.
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post #6 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-25-2020, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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The extremism on both sides needs to stop. Can we just cut it out with this excessive, invasive, surveillance and tracking nightmare? I'm looking at you programmers engineers and admins -_-


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post #7 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-25-2020, 11:51 AM
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^ You sound a bit like a conspiracy theorist. People care about various social issues without being paid to lol...

Also neither the Soviets nor the Nazis invented anti-semitic stereotypes. They've been stereotyped and scapegoated for thousands of years:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotypes_of_Jews

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism

Though the Stanford Prison Experiment is interesting, they've never managed to replicate it.

Anyway

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The extremism on both sides needs to stop. Can we just cut it out with this excessive, invasive, surveillance and tracking nightmare? I'm looking at you programmers engineers and admins -_-
I'm guessing no especially as most warfare has moved to the realm of cyberspace now.

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post #8 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-26-2020, 08:23 AM Thread Starter
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@Persephone The Dread , I see what you mean but still: even if there are people who are passionate that doesn't mean there aren't paid actors. And just because scapegoating has been around for millennia doesn't mean governments weren't using it to their advantage.

The continuing of surveillance is unfortunate, because it is a form of power leading us straight into 1984 and thought crimes (e.g. the 'new normal'). I think we all forget a very simple fact about 'security' and taxes shown in this 2 minute video:

Honestly I think both parties are trying to push the same thing on the general public. The whole world, really. I particularly find the bit about destroying the twin interesting because ALL governments want to break up the family unit.
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post #9 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-26-2020, 08:38 AM
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you can only hope that the best candidate from the grass roots movement that bernie sanders and his progressive candidates can transform the usa. I dont get involved with conspiracy theories because its illegitimate news that cant be confirmed and reason why i strongly dislike social media. There can be a lot of false information.

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post #10 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-26-2020, 11:06 AM
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The secondary topic of this thread seems to be about Americans coming together now realistically I don't think you can expect Americans to come together anytime soon and this link sort of sums up why though I can't quote all of it cause it's long:

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/3...-the-outgroup/

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I started this essay by pointing out that, despite what geographical and cultural distance would suggest, the Nazis’ outgroup was not the vastly different Japanese, but the almost-identical German Jews.

And my hypothesis, stated plainly, is that if you’re part of the Blue Tribe, then your outgroup isn’t al-Qaeda, or Muslims, or blacks, or gays, or transpeople, or Jews, or atheists – it’s the Red Tribe.
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Every election cycle like clockwork, conservatives accuse liberals of not being sufficiently pro-America. And every election cycle like clockwork, liberals give extremely unconvincing denials of this.
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Well, in the same way “going to synagogue” is merely the iceberg-tip of a Jewish tribe with many distinguishing characteristics, so “voting Republican” or “identifying as conservative” or “believing in creationism” is the iceberg-tip of a conservative tribe with many distinguishing characteristics.

A disproportionate number of my friends are Jewish, because I meet them at psychiatry conferences or something – we self-segregate not based on explicit religion but on implicit tribal characteristics. So in the same way, political tribes self-segregate to an impressive extent – a 1/10^45 extent, I will never tire of hammering in – based on their implicit tribal characteristics.

The people who are actually into this sort of thing sketch out a bunch of speculative tribes and subtribes, but to make it easier, let me stick with two and a half.

The Red Tribe is most classically typified by conservative political beliefs, strong evangelical religious beliefs, creationism, opposing gay marriage, owning guns, eating steak, drinking Coca-Cola, driving SUVs, watching lots of TV, enjoying American football, getting conspicuously upset about terrorists and commies, marrying early, divorcing early, shouting “USA IS NUMBER ONE!!!”, and listening to country music.

The Blue Tribe is most classically typified by liberal political beliefs, vague agnosticism, supporting gay rights, thinking guns are barbaric, eating arugula, drinking fancy bottled water, driving Priuses, reading lots of books, being highly educated, mocking American football, feeling vaguely like they should like soccer but never really being able to get into it, getting conspicuously upset about sexists and bigots, marrying later, constantly pointing out how much more civilized European countries are than America, and listening to “everything except country”.

(There is a partly-formed attempt to spin off a Grey Tribe typified by libertarian political beliefs, Dawkins-style atheism, vague annoyance that the question of gay rights even comes up, eating paleo, drinking Soylent, calling in rides on Uber, reading lots of blogs, calling American football “sportsball”, getting conspicuously upset about the War on Drugs and the NSA, and listening to filk – but for our current purposes this is a distraction and they can safely be considered part of the Blue Tribe most of the time)

I think these “tribes” will turn out to be even stronger categories than politics. Harvard might skew 80-20 in terms of Democrats vs. Republicans, 90-10 in terms of liberals vs. conservatives, but maybe 99-1 in terms of Blues vs. Reds.
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My hunch – both the Red Tribe and the Blue Tribe, for whatever reason, identify “America” with the Red Tribe. Ask people for typically “American” things, and you end up with a very Red list of characteristics – guns, religion, barbecues, American football, NASCAR, cowboys, SUVs, unrestrained capitalism.

That means the Red Tribe feels intensely patriotic about “their” country, and the Blue Tribe feels like they’re living in fortified enclaves deep in hostile territory.
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We then noted that although liberals and conservatives live in the same area, they might as well be two totally different countries or universe as far as level of interaction were concerned.

Contra the usual idea of them being marked only by voting behavior, we described them as very different tribes with totally different cultures. You can speak of “American culture” only in the same way you can speak of “Asian culture” – that is, with a lot of interior boundaries being pushed under the rug.

The outgroup of the Red Tribe is occasionally blacks and gays and Muslims, more often the Blue Tribe.

The Blue Tribe has performed some kind of very impressive act of alchemy, and transmuted all of its outgroup hatred to the Red Tribe.
Now this has been going on a long while, but it's been getting increasingly aggressive lately. Though something similar happens in many places - it's particularly hard for the US to form a cohesive unified culture because of it's history imo.

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post #11 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-29-2020, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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I'm guessing no especially as most warfare has moved to the realm of cyberspace now.
Yea well before cyber warfare you didn't see western governments shooting artillery shells at their own citizens or sending James Bond to go after Ned Flanders. Something tells me the cyclical tribal nonsense isn't going to work this time. People aren't going to forget about snake oil salesmen like Zuckerberg or Bezos duping them into giving away their lives without informed consent. Especially since the real architects of the whole system are STILL not being held accountable. And I don't think a monolithic culture is necessary for all people to demand that accountability.
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post #12 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-29-2020, 03:17 PM
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Yea well before cyber warfare you didn't see western governments shooting artillery shells at their own citizens or sending James Bond to go after Ned Flanders. Something tells me the cyclical tribal nonsense isn't going to work this time. People aren't going to forget about snake oil salesmen like Zuckerberg or Bezos duping them into giving away their lives without informed consent. Especially since the real architects of the whole system are STILL not being held accountable. And I don't think a monolithic culture is necessary for all people to demand that accountability.
I think you're being too optimistic lol look at the response to this virus (it was a good test.) Perhaps not even an alien invasion will unite people.

But beyond that while there is bipartisan support for opposing various security/surveillance based bills there's also bipartisan support in favour of them so sort of cancels out.

edit: lol just remembered this


'we're not against you on this'

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post #13 of 69 (permalink) Old 07-29-2020, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
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@Persephone The Dread yea it's definitely been a litmus test LOL. And area 51 already proved how superstitious people get when they see a jet at night! xD The truth is I've seen hundreds and hundreds of people and an uncomfortable number will continue their horrible ways no matter how strong a case you make for human decency and dignity.
It just sucks because places like England were well known for not even giving their police guns. But from what I hear now the billy clubs have been replaced with an Orwellian dystopia and I can't even begin fretting over the militarization that will probably have to get ramped up state-side. The tribalism and problems going on now are just giving more and more justification
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post #14 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-29-2020, 10:22 PM
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Win what?
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post #15 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-30-2020, 07:34 AM
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I agree. Complacency and instant gratification always win out. And that article is really good since it points out the hyper-normalization all the corporations are forcing on us (though I'm not sure how much I trust the founder of eBay for my news lol). [/B]As the other two posters show, division and fighting between people instead of everybody coming together as one is also a massive power play.
Corporations may not be forcing anyone one but theyre helping you get that dopamine as it brings instant gratificiation that humans are programmed to be. Dopamine is the pleasure principle and happiness is often confused with the two. So with that brings short term pleasure as happiness is brings to a long term stance. In my desire, if only everyone stood up and protest or do something to bring the governement to act boldly and quick to help many people who need it. Its not radical for climate change to change and transform even though the very wealthy republicans think its just too radical. If there isnt anything done about climate change within just a few years scientists say the world will be irrepabable damage to the planet.

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post #16 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-31-2020, 05:04 AM
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post #17 of 69 (permalink) Old 09-03-2020, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
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@CopadoMexicano governments can also be corrupted and give people the power to abuse :\
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post #18 of 69 (permalink) Old 09-03-2020, 12:33 PM
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@CopadoMexicano governments can also be corrupted and give people the power to abuse :\
true. and with the current political system usa is too corrupt and gets scarier each day. at least to me it does. People in governments can take advantage too easily and I wish it wasnt like that but I keep up with bernie sanders emails to be informed.he is the only senator and politician that truly cares about the american people.

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post #19 of 69 (permalink) Old 09-03-2020, 12:38 PM
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The house always wins.






And all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death
Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow,
A poor player that strut's and fret's his hour upon the stage and is heard no more,
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
- Macbeth
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post #20 of 69 (permalink) Old 09-08-2020, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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The house always wins.
Bingo! :P
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