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post #81 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ms kim View Post
My argument is simple. If it had not been for slavery there wouldn't have been so many black people in your country.

You can't turn back the hands of time . This is where we are today, a mixture of people.

This utopia of 100% pure race living in each country is not going to happen.

The applaud thing was not a joke. You respect this man & so you were really hoping that others of your same race would also agree. I bet you would also like it if I was banned from SAS simply for being black.

If you want to talk about protecting your borders from terrorist & criminals that's one thing. Eliminating none-whites from your country- that's racist & backwards. And I'm pleased that not every white person shares your views.
Wow you're really bringing it hard on me aren't ya. Did I go after you personally like that? No I did not... Look who's full of hate after all.

That's cool. You think I'm targeting blacks for their deportation when I just told you I'm not....

I really don't think whites are gonna give up their country that easily, and I believe that most of them do not want to become minorities in their own country as well...

Ehh yea, sort of. Whites are still the majority group, most want to cut immigration to 0 (66%), and it was only 50 or so years ago the US was 90% white when a bill was signed that was not supposed to alter the racial demographics in any significant way. But it did. So this is all relatively recent happening on our country's timescale. Change happens gradually.

No utopia huh? What about Japan? North and South Korea? Greenland? Poland? Hungary? And even countries in Africa? This is not a utopia but the most natural way of life and how life has been for human civilization for thousands of years... Putin is worried about white demographics as well. Not really a utopia if several different countries are already employing it. I also literally just said that it's not necessary for our countries to be 100% white, 100% one race, at the very least though we want to remain the majority in our own home countries like you probably want to remain in your own. A lot of whites are simply scared to speak up for being labeled a racist, and crucified in the public domain. It's a total political move, coercion by everyone else.

Why are you so mad at me on a personal level all of the sudden??? Is it because I mentioned "my people"? Is that really what infuriated you? Well folks, prime example of why we absolutely need to avoid becoming a minority, because it seems everyone already hates us anyways and we will be treated like **** by everyone else just for simply acknowledging our existence... Look at how whites are treated in South Africa or Brazil where they have to run barbed wire around their homes or live in gated communities just to keep themselves safe. This is what happens to whites when they are a minority in a country it seems...

Interesting you are making these comments from Jamaica. What are the demographics like there? I really have no clue and have not looked it up. I'd be surprised to know though. I'd imagine it's very racially homogenous, but I really have no clue like I said. If it is, well there's another one of your unicorn utopia's that are just impossible to find anywhere on the planet?

It was not a joke? Ok. Well I'm not gonna argue with someone over what I meant about something when they are telling me, what I meant about something. Yea I respect him because he's very intelligent, even if you think he has the wrong views... Perhaps you can't see past his views to identify this? Or maybe you came to another conclusion, but I'd have a hard time believing you did so without bias.

Yea it would be cool if others came to appreciate Jared Taylor like I do. Or, on the contrary, it would be interesting if someone came in with a fantastic argument to debunk anything or everything I've said by thoroughly explaining themselves while providing a factual or scientific basis. So far the only person out of all these posts to come close to doing that is @scarpia , except I think the web articles are junk after seeing one of them cited a writeup in a magazine... That leaves 2 other studies, one by a black psychiatrist trying to prove that racism starts with avoiding certain groups then leads to stage 5 lynching/killing/genocide lmfao... It was written in 2002 and I do not believe it reached the DSM which is very very open to listing new symptoms (in this case for delusional disorder)....... The other one I haven't delved deep into yet.. meh

"I bet you would also like it if I was banned from SAS simply for being black."

Wow you're really taking this too far and just trying to make me look bad saying **** like this. If I was the owner of SAS I'd see no reason to ban people based on ethnicity or race. It's a friggen website. And as far as neighborhoods or living situations go, I would not invoke government involvement in controlling where people live but rather let the people do it freely themselves. This is not arguing for anarchy like one other poster tried to proclaim. Idk how that advocates for the total abolishin of government at all! And, these are Jared Taylor's views as well if you can see past his more opinionated comments where he might say he prefers white culture/civilizations or something. I love my culture, my European heritage, and where my people have come from. Everyone should be proud of their people, including whites, and not held back by the fact that their ancestors did some highly immoral things that the whole world was doing at the time (slavery).... Nearly every race has been enslaved at one point or another. "Slave" actually comes from the word "Slav or Slavic" because from what I remember Slavs were enslaved.

I never said deport anyone for the like idk, literal 10th time in this thread??? I do wanna see a cut to all non-white immigration or if we can't do that, I believe some of us may be moving to other countries or to new land to start new ones even idk...

Let me ask you, would you like to see whites race-mixed out of existence? How would you feel about that, given that we are the world's minority and we're now starting to be outnumbered in our countries as well?

I hope a lot of whites share at least some of my views, because if they don't, we will disappear in a few centuries... At least 66% do on immigration so that's a step! It is interesting how humans will dash to save an endangered species, or breed of dog, but not a whole race or sub-race of humans that share similar genetic traits and have created unique and wholesome civilizations and cultures of their own from the ground up. Western culture is white culture, American culture reflects European culture, or it used to anyways... Culture is derived from the people that make it up, so if white people disappear, then so will the "Western" culture that we know of today. That is how I see it.





@VanDamMan So by your logic, formal education makes you more intelligent and that is your standard for intelligence, but the fact that Jared Taylor has 2 degrees with one being from an ivy league school + fluent in 3 languages + seems bright to me doesn't mean anything? Oh I see, double standard. School makes me more intelligent but your opinion only determines Jared Taylor's intelligence.... Great logic. The mental gymnastics the emotionally frail will put themselves through in order to guarantee to the public that they are not "racist" in any way shape or form. You couldn't be a "racist" even if you wanted to, even if it meant something completely different and was the most moral thing to be in the world. The word is heavily ingrained into your small-thinking brain. Btw, what is your standard for intelligence? Apparently IQ tests mean nothing so we've got that out of the way...
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post #82 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by forgetmylife View Post
@VanDamMan So by your logic, formal education makes you more intelligent and that is your standard for intelligence, but the fact that Jared Taylor has 2 degrees with one being from an ivy league school + fluent in 3 languages + seems bright to me doesn't mean anything? Oh I see, double standard. School makes me more intelligent but your opinion only determines Jared Taylor's intelligence.... Great logic. The mental gymnastics the emotionally frail will put themselves through in order to guarantee to the public that they are not "racist" in any way shape or form. You couldn't be a "racist" even if you wanted to, even if it meant something completely different and was the most moral thing to be in the world. The word is heavily ingrained into your small-thinking brain. Btw, what is your standard for intelligence? Apparently IQ tests mean nothing so we've got that out of the way...
You're really creaming your shorts over this Jared guy.

Look. Whether it's Harvard or CSU, they study the same stuff. Formal education teaches you how think. How to structure an argument. The difference between anecdotes and proof. Harvard students are probably a little smarter than average. Teachers a little better. But they're still fallible.

Intelligent people don't go around anouncing they're intelligent.

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post #83 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 05:34 PM
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Wow you're really bringing it hard on me aren't ya. Did I go after you personally like that? No I did not... Look who's full of hate after all.

That's cool. You think I'm targeting blacks for their deportation when I just told you I'm not....

I really don't think whites are gonna give up their country that easily, and I believe that most of them do not want to become minorities in their own country as well...

Ehh yea, sort of. Whites are still the majority group, most want to cut immigration to 0 (66%), and it was only 50 or so years ago the US was 90% white when a bill was signed that was not supposed to alter the racial demographics in any significant way. But it did. So this is all relatively recent happening on our country's timescale. Change happens gradually.

No utopia huh? What about Japan? North and South Korea? Greenland? Poland? Hungary? And even countries in Africa? This is not a utopia but the most natural way of life and how life has been for human civilization for thousands of years... Putin is worried about white demographics as well. Not really a utopia if several different countries are already employing it. I also literally just said that it's not necessary for our countries to be 100% white, 100% one race, at the very least though we want to remain the majority in our own home countries like you probably want to remain in your own. A lot of whites are simply scared to speak up for being labeled a racist, and crucified in the public domain. It's a total political move, coercion by everyone else.

Why are you so mad at me on a personal level all of the sudden??? Is it because I mentioned "my people"? Is that really what infuriated you? Well folks, prime example of why we absolutely need to avoid becoming a minority, because it seems everyone already hates us anyways and we will be treated like **** by everyone else just for simply acknowledging our existence... Look at how whites are treated in South Africa or Brazil where they have to run barbed wire around their homes or live in gated communities just to keep themselves safe. This is what happens to whites when they are a minority in a country it seems...

Interesting you are making these comments from Jamaica. What are the demographics like there? I really have no clue and have not looked it up. I'd be surprised to know though. I'd imagine it's very racially homogenous, but I really have no clue like I said. If it is, well there's another one of your unicorn utopia's that are just impossible to find anywhere on the planet?

It was not a joke? Ok. Well I'm not gonna argue with someone over what I meant about something when they are telling me, what I meant about something. Yea I respect him because he's very intelligent, even if you think he has the wrong views... Perhaps you can't see past his views to identify this? Or maybe you came to another conclusion, but I'd have a hard time believing you did so without bias.

Yea it would be cool if others came to appreciate Jared Taylor like I do. Or, on the contrary, it would be interesting if someone came in with a fantastic argument to debunk anything or everything I've said by thoroughly explaining themselves while providing a factual or scientific basis. So far the only person out of all these posts to come close to doing that is @scarpia , except I think the web articles are junk after seeing one of them cited a writeup in a magazine... That leaves 2 other studies, one by a black psychiatrist trying to prove that racism starts with avoiding certain groups then leads to stage 5 lynching/killing/genocide lmfao... It was written in 2002 and I do not believe it reached the DSM which is very very open to listing new symptoms (in this case for delusional disorder)....... The other one I haven't delved deep into yet.. meh

"I bet you would also like it if I was banned from SAS simply for being black."

Wow you're really taking this too far and just trying to make me look bad saying **** like this. If I was the owner of SAS I'd see no reason to ban people based on ethnicity or race. It's a friggen website. And as far as neighborhoods or living situations go, I would not invoke government involvement in controlling where people live but rather let the people do it freely themselves. This is not arguing for anarchy like one other poster tried to proclaim. Idk how that advocates for the total abolishin of government at all! And, these are Jared Taylor's views as well if you can see past his more opinionated comments where he might say he prefers white culture/civilizations or something. I love my culture, my European heritage, and where my people have come from. Everyone should be proud of their people, including whites, and not held back by the fact that their ancestors did some highly immoral things that the whole world was doing at the time (slavery).... Nearly every race has been enslaved at one point or another. "Slave" actually comes from the word "Slav or Slavic" because from what I remember Slavs were enslaved.

I never said deport anyone for the like idk, literal 10th time in this thread??? I do wanna see a cut to all non-white immigration or if we can't do that, I believe some of us may be moving to other countries or to new land to start new ones even idk...

Let me ask you, would you like to see whites race-mixed out of existence? How would you feel about that, given that we are the world's minority and we're now starting to be outnumbered in our countries as well?

I hope a lot of whites share at least some of my views, because if they don't, we will disappear in a few centuries... At least 66% do on immigration so that's a step! It is interesting how humans will dash to save an endangered species, or breed of dog, but not a whole race or sub-race of humans that share similar genetic traits and have created unique and wholesome civilizations and cultures of their own from the ground up. Western culture is white culture, American culture reflects European culture, or it used to anyways... Culture is derived from the people that make it up, so if white people disappear, then so will the "Western" culture that we know of today. That is how I see it.
I think someone made the point before that white people did not originate in America, there were other settlers there before right? Whatever happened to them? Why did your ancestors take over America? The same thing you are accusing other races of doing now?

Black people are the majority in Jamaica. But this again has to do with black people being kidnapped from Africa. The Arawak Indians were the first settlers here. Jamaica belonged to them until Christopher Columbus & his crew came and subjected them to forced labour, torturing them & killing them off & stealing their land. After the Arawak Indians died, black people were brought in to continue the forced labour.

I don't want your culture to disappear, neither do I hate white people. I like different cultures & all different peoples. Please don't accuse me of any nonsense. The world would be boring if only there was Jamaican culture. Right now in Jamaica, Indian soaps are the coolest thing on local TV. I'm really not uptight about such things.

Our Jamaican motto is, "out of many, one people". It means blacks, indians, whites, chinese we are all one Jamaican people.

What a Friend we have in Jesus, all our sins and griefs to bear!
What a privilege to carry everything to God in prayer!
O what peace we often forfeit, O what needless pain we bear,
All because we do not carry everything to God in prayer.
-Joseph M. Scriven
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post #84 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 08:50 PM
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Admire you for fighting the cult-like mentality. When facts show up, they just bury their heads and scream the same BS slogans they've been programmed with. It won't change cuz they are afraid.
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post #85 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 09:36 PM
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@forgetmylife

Admire you for fighting the cult-like mentality. When facts show up, they just bury their heads and scream the same BS slogans they've been programmed with. It won't change cuz they are afraid.
If people were afraid, they would be preaching the message the OP is in here, not the opposite.

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post #86 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 10:25 PM
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If people were afraid, they would be preaching the message the OP is in here, not the opposite.
OP is looking for facts, examining studies, listening to theories and making up his own mind. He's not afraid to look at truths and follow them where they lead. Others in this thread make assumptions and insults because they may have to change or broaden their perspective and that can only be because they are afraid too.

Your wrong on this one AussiePea.
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post #87 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 10:27 PM
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OP is looking for facts, examining studies, listening to theories and making up his own mind. He's not afraid to look at truths and follow them where they lead. Others in this thread make assumptions and insults because they may have to change or broaden their perspective and that can only be because they are afraid too.

Your wrong on this one AussiePea.
Just because people disagree doesn't mean they haven't considered both sides of the argument.

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post #88 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 10:45 PM
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OP is looking for facts, examining studies, listening to theories and making up his own mind. He's not afraid to look at truths and follow them where they lead. Others in this thread make assumptions and insults because they may have to change or broaden their perspective and that can only be because they are afraid too.

Your wrong on this one AussiePea.
Seems more like OP is trying to confirm his biases and attacks and insults people who tell him he's wrong. He's using faulty arguments that just don't support what he's saying, while portraying himself as intellectually superior.
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post #89 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 11:50 PM
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Just because people disagree doesn't mean they haven't considered both sides of the argument.
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Seems more like OP is trying to confirm his biases and attacks and insults people who tell him he's wrong. He's using faulty arguments that just don't support what he's saying, while portraying himself as intellectually superior.


It would be much simpler if you simply explained the flaws in those studies rather than accusing him of bigotry which isn't a counterargument.

The thread started on the premise that all races and peoples tend toward the familiar; we all do this and it is not motivated by hatred. I've seen this described as a survival mechanism in all human babies. The unfamiliar can be dangerous. Also that it is not inherently racist for the whites to group up any more than the Africans, or Japanese, or Mohawks, since they do not dismiss or devalue other peoples in doing so. Only western whites come under this form of scrutiny. That is racist in itself since it asserts that only whites can be racist, which is proven wrong on a daily basis.

Quoting OP:
"Here Jared explains for the 50th time, among other things, why freedom of association is not racist and why it's ok for whites to want to live among themselves as it is a natural thing to want to live among your own people. I don't necessarily agree with all of his views but he's one of the greatest debaters I've seen, and he always makes the most interesting points..."

I haven't seen a counterargument yet, only accusations of bias, racism, ignorance, stupidity, etc etc... I'll side with the OP until someone here can debunk the premise he posted with.
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post #90 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 01:02 AM
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It would be much simpler if you simply explained the flaws in those studies rather than accusing him of bigotry which isn't a counterargument.

The thread started on the premise that all races and peoples tend toward the familiar; we all do this and it is not motivated by hatred. I've seen this described as a survival mechanism in all human babies. The unfamiliar can be dangerous. Also that it is not inherently racist for the whites to group up any more than the Africans, or Japanese, or Mohawks, since they do not dismiss or devalue other peoples in doing so. Only western whites come under this form of scrutiny. That is racist in itself since it asserts that only whites can be racist, which is proven wrong on a daily basis.

Quoting OP:
"Here Jared explains for the 50th time, among other things, why freedom of association is not racist and why it's ok for whites to want to live among themselves as it is a natural thing to want to live among your own people. I don't necessarily agree with all of his views but he's one of the greatest debaters I've seen, and he always makes the most interesting points..."

I haven't seen a counterargument yet, only accusations of bias, racism, ignorance, stupidity, etc etc... I'll side with the OP until someone here can debunk the premise he posted with.
I see segregation as strongly damaging to a society. I don't believe it's good to have subgroups in society who are essentially alienated from one another. OP actually uses that argument (or at least a version of it) to argue against immigration, so it seems odd to argue that people should associate completely freely with whomever they want, even at the expense of social cohesion.

When I said OP used faulty arguments, I was specifically referring to him arguing that whites have superior IQs from nature and if society were all white, it'd be far more peaceful due to genetic differences.
When challenged on this, he referred to studies saying there is some genetic differences and that this meant there could be advantages in tailoring medications to different racial groups.
Differences in medication does not entail that whites have higher IQs and are more peaceful for genetic reasons. If you don't call that racist, I don't know what you would call it. And arguing for freedom of association on the basis of that kind of pseudo-science is also racist, even if freedom of association isn't inherently racist by itself.
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post #91 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 03:41 AM
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I took the time to watch the video and I'm not impressed. I think you think he kicked Sargon's butt because you want to believe that he's right, not because he's actually making a strong argument.

I don't disagree with everything he said. There are obviously biological differences between the races (which is tautological, since the races are defined in terms of these differences). People do tend to prefer people who are similar to themselves, and find it easier to relate to people who are similar to themselves. (I've written about this myself, and call it psychological or cognitive isomorphism). People should be free to associate with whomever they please, even if their reasons are silly, so long as it does no harm (and here I object to his definition of harm).

What I disagree with is the correlation he makes between racial biology and culture, which strikes me as being shoddy reductionism and scientifically unprovable. It's impossible to test, so it's impossible to prove, which makes it pure speculation. I can't give you a historical analog for my Mack truck analogy because every historical event has been shaped by preceding historical events. You can't isolate race and study it apart from history; that's science fiction, and the conclusions drawn from it are pure wish fulfillment.

It's the environment that shapes evolution; animals adapt to their climate. If climate dictates biology, then it obviously dictates culture to a degree as well. It's not: climate -> biology -> culture, but climate -> biology, climate -> culture. If you sent three spaceships, one with white people, one with black people, and one with Asians, to a planet where everything was made of cotton candy, all three groups would be forced to adapt to the environment in the same way; cotton candy would become a central facet of their culture, the same way snow became a central facet of Arctic cultures, or plants a central facet of Amazonian cultures. Races don't get to decide how they want to adapt; the physical environment and chance determine how the races adapt; over time, all three races would adapt in more or less the same way (something called convergent evolution).

That's why Jared Diamond is such a boogeyman to racial thinkers, and why Taylor dismisses him with ad hominem ("what a fraudster!"). The culture of the Northern Europeans was, in part, an adaptive response to their physical environment; an environment which happened to be less hostile, and more exploitable (because of its flora, fauna, soil, etc.), than other environments. Northern Europeans, who were still savages living in tents while Greeks, Egyptians, Indians, Chinese, etc., had highly sophisticated cultures, also had access, through trade, to all of the technical (and cultural) innovations that had been made by other cultures, an advantage that people living in the Americas didn't have. White nationalists are like people who've won the lottery and attribute their winnings to their superior intelligence instead of correctly attributing it to luck.

Culture is essentially a cognitive model of the world; it explains to people what the world is like and how they should live in it. Culture is dictated to some degree by the physical environment, by the limitations of the human body, and by the self-evolving nature of thought; as people come to understand the world, their model changes, and culture adapts to the changes. The anatomical differences between people of different races are real, but small, which is why racial biology plays an almost insignificant role in the evolution of culture. That doesn't mean racial identity doesn't play an important role, because it does; most cultures consider all other cultures inferior; but this kind of thinking -- "My group is inherently superior to your group" -- is exactly the kind of superstitious, irrational thinking I'm talking about.

To me, this is obviously a form of thought distortion, which is why all white supremacists (or other racial supremacists) appear delusional to me. Ofc, you can prefer your own race without thinking that it's inherently superior. I prefer the color orange, but I don't believe that it's superior in any meaningful way to other colors. A person who prefers the physical aesthetics of their own race isn't a racist; they would only be a racist if they believed that their personal preferences were an indication of objective aesthetic superiority. It's okay to prefer to date white people if you're white because you like the way whites look, but it's delusional to believe that you prefer them because they are objectively more beautiful than other races, just as it would be delusional for me to believe that orange is objectively more beautiful than any other color.

As Sargon points out, people prefer to associate with others for reasons that have nothing to do with race. (Eg. Islam.) This is the isomorphism I mentioned above. People prefer to be with people they have things in common with. But Taylor is making an error by projecting his own isomorphic preferences onto other people. Am I likely to find it easier to relate to another white person (since I'm white)? Probably. But race is only one small part of my identity. There are literally thousands (millions?) of ways that people can be similar or different, and race is so far down my list of priorities that I find it hard to imagine a scenario where I would consider the racial biology of another person a significant factor. I'm going to have a lot more in common with a black person who thinks racists are silly than I am with a white racist.

If something as simple as a theoretical difference can trump racial preference (and there are hundreds of things like that) then it's simply not true that race is (or has to be) a huge barrier separating people. It's only a barrier because there are many people who make it a priority for one reason or another, and those people make it necessary for other people to adapt to them. Racism is a problem created by racists (of any race) and then imposed on other people, who are not racists. It doesn't make sense to me to try to solve the problem of racism by finding intellectual justifications for that racism. For many people, race is simply a non-issue in how they relate to other people; people who assume that these people are in denial or lying about it are simply engaging in projection.

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There are very brilliant people whom you might call "racist".
I never said brilliant people couldn't be racist. It used to be quite common, even among educated and intelligent people. It's less common now because most people are no longer persuaded by the arguments racial thinkers make. Some intelligent people are, and they likely have reasons for allowing themselves to be so persuaded. No one wants to feel like the bad guy; everyone wants to feel like they have good, rational reasons for their feelings. So if they're very afraid of other races, they will try to find justifications for their fears and reassurances that their fears are healthy and natural. That way, they can feel good about themselves again.

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Anyone can be a racist or sexist these days. And those are simply names to negatively label people or sham them. These aren't scientific terms
These terms do get thrown around too often, and no, they're obviously not scientific terms, but imo anyone who believes that races are "superior" or "inferior" to other races is a racist. A sexist is a person who believes one gender is superior to another. Biological differences between races and genders don't imply superiority/inferiority and it's kind of stupid to believe that they do. That's the kind of thinking I associate with children, not adults.

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I don't think you understand that the differences in genetics between races is not random and has nothing to do with the differences in genetics between individuals... The differences in genetics between populations has to do with evolution and geographic location/environment (evolution). That is, populations who evolve in different environments will have different genetic outcomes that everyone in that population, and only that population, will share
I obviously do understand this. I don't believe you understand the implications, though. As I explained above, the environment shapes not only biology but culture, either directly or indirectly. It doesn't make sense to attribute any kind of inherent superiority to the humans that evolved in that environment if any humans from anywhere would have evolved more or less the same way. Animals don't control their own evolution. Being proud of your race is like being proud you're a walrus and had the good sense to evolve all that blubber to keep out the cold.

There are vast differences between individuals of the same race. If racists were really concerned about preserving what they consider Western culture, they'd divide along IQ lines, not race lines. If they segregate, all that's going to happen is that low IQ whites will outbreed high IQ whites and culture will decline anyway. (That's their fear, anyway.)

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Originally Posted by forgetmylife View Post
btw, I have an IQ of 115 just in case you were wondering. And I have no mental ailments beyond Major Depressive Disorder and Social Anxiety Disorder. I'm just an average guy who spends a lot of time on the internet who has delved somewhat deep into a few different subjects...
I have an IQ of 140. Pleased to meet you. (Let's face it, you won't believe me because it's the Internet and people can say whatever they like, but I'm not actually making that up.) I'm just an average transwoman who spends a lot of time thinking about the way other people think.

I love Society. It is entirely composed now of beautiful idiots and brilliant lunatics. Just what Society should be.
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post #92 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 05:05 AM
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I see segregation as strongly damaging to a society. I don't believe it's good to have subgroups in society who are essentially alienated from one another. OP actually uses that argument (or at least a version of it) to argue against immigration, so it seems odd to argue that people should associate completely freely with whomever they want, even at the expense of social cohesion..
There is no segregation, where "<RACE> not allowed". Having subgroups, like the Asian section of town, allows people to preserve their identity, language and history while living in a system of western ideals and ethics. They are not alienated or forbidden from other areas of town and that would be destructive and damaging for sure. The only place I see that attitude is African Americans who have problems with everyone else in the USA. The same for many Muslims in Europe who want sharia law and refuse to assimilate into their new country.

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When I said OP used faulty arguments, I was specifically referring to him arguing that whites have superior IQs from nature and if society were all white, it'd be far more peaceful due to genetic differences..
The studies of IQ spread across different peoples is real. There is an IQ difference there. Asians come out a few points on the top. I didn't click any links because I've seen it before and the methods were challenged (standard IQ testing) and held up to scrutiny.

I didn't see him equate racial uniformity with peace. You will have to quote him for me, and then debunk his argument.

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When challenged on this, he referred to studies saying there is some genetic differences and that this meant there could be advantages in tailoring medications to different racial groups.
Which is true but your distorting what he replied too. Please quote him and the argument he responded too.

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Differences in medication does not entail that whites have higher IQs and are more peaceful for genetic reasons.
Which he never said. If all you can do is misrepresent him then you have no argument to make. I'll continue to side with him until you can properly debunk him.
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post #93 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 05:14 AM
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I took the time to watch the video and I'm not impressed. I think you think he kicked Sargon's butt because you want to believe that he's right, not because he's actually making a strong argument.

I don't disagree with everything he said. There are obviously biological differences between the races (which is tautological, since the races are defined in terms of these differences). People do tend to prefer people who are similar to themselves, and find it easier to relate to people who are similar to themselves. (I've written about this myself, and call it psychological or cognitive isomorphism). People should be free to associate with whomever they please, even if their reasons are silly, so long as it does no harm (and here I object to his definition of harm).

What I disagree with is the correlation he makes between racial biology and culture, which strikes me as being shoddy reductionism and scientifically unprovable. It's impossible to test, so it's impossible to prove, which makes it pure speculation. I can't give you a historical analog for my Mack truck analogy because every historical event has been shaped by preceding historical events. You can't isolate race and study it apart from history; that's science fiction, and the conclusions drawn from it are pure wish fulfillment.

It's the environment that shapes evolution; animals adapt to their climate. If climate dictates biology, then it obviously dictates culture to a degree as well. It's not: climate -> biology -> culture, but climate -> biology, climate -> culture. If you sent three spaceships, one with white people, one with black people, and one with Asians, to a planet where everything was made of cotton candy, all three groups would be forced to adapt to the environment in the same way; cotton candy would become a central facet of their culture, the same way snow became a central facet of Arctic cultures, or plants a central facet of Amazonian cultures. Races don't get to decide how they want to adapt; the physical environment and chance determine how the races adapt; over time, all three races would adapt in more or less the same way (something called convergent evolution).

That's why Jared Diamond is such a boogeyman to racial thinkers, and why Taylor dismisses him with ad hominem ("what a fraudster!"). The culture of the Northern Europeans was, in part, an adaptive response to their physical environment; an environment which happened to be less hostile, and more exploitable (because of its flora, fauna, soil, etc.), than other environments. Northern Europeans, who were still savages living in tents while Greeks, Egyptians, Indians, Chinese, etc., had highly sophisticated cultures, also had access, through trade, to all of the technical (and cultural) innovations that had been made by other cultures, an advantage that people living in the Americas didn't have. White nationalists are like people who've won the lottery and attribute their winnings to their superior intelligence instead of correctly attributing it to luck.

Culture is essentially a cognitive model of the world; it explains to people what the world is like and how they should live in it. Culture is dictated to some degree by the physical environment, by the limitations of the human body, and by the self-evolving nature of thought; as people come to understand the world, their model changes, and culture adapts to the changes. The anatomical differences between people of different races are real, but small, which is why racial biology plays an almost insignificant role in the evolution of culture. That doesn't mean racial identity doesn't play an important role, because it does; most cultures consider all other cultures inferior; but this kind of thinking -- "My group is inherently superior to your group" -- is exactly the kind of superstitious, irrational thinking I'm talking about.

To me, this is obviously a form of thought distortion, which is why all white supremacists (or other racial supremacists) appear delusional to me. Ofc, you can prefer your own race without thinking that it's inherently superior. I prefer the color orange, but I don't believe that it's superior in any meaningful way to other colors. A person who prefers the physical aesthetics of their own race isn't a racist; they would only be a racist if they believed that their personal preferences were an indication of objective aesthetic superiority. It's okay to prefer to date white people if you're white because you like the way whites look, but it's delusional to believe that you prefer them because they are objectively more beautiful than other races, just as it would be delusional for me to believe that orange is objectively more beautiful than any other color.

As Sargon points out, people prefer to associate with others for reasons that have nothing to do with race. (Eg. Islam.) This is the isomorphism I mentioned above. People prefer to be with people they have things in common with. But Taylor is making an error by projecting his own isomorphic preferences onto other people. Am I likely to find it easier to relate to another white person (since I'm white)? Probably. But race is only one small part of my identity. There are literally thousands (millions?) of ways that people can be similar or different, and race is so far down my list of priorities that I find it hard to imagine a scenario where I would consider the racial biology of another person a significant factor. I'm going to have a lot more in common with a black person who thinks racists are silly than I am with a white racist.

If something as simple as a theoretical difference can trump racial preference (and there are hundreds of things like that) then it's simply not true that race is (or has to be) a huge barrier separating people. It's only a barrier because there are many people who make it a priority for one reason or another, and those people make it necessary for other people to adapt to them. Racism is a problem created by racists (of any race) and then imposed on other people, who are not racists. It doesn't make sense to me to try to solve the problem of racism by finding intellectual justifications for that racism. For many people, race is simply a non-issue in how they relate to other people; people who assume that these people are in denial or lying about it are simply engaging in projection.



I never said brilliant people couldn't be racist. It used to be quite common, even among educated and intelligent people. It's less common now because most people are no longer persuaded by the arguments racial thinkers make. Some intelligent people are, and they likely have reasons for allowing themselves to be so persuaded. No one wants to feel like the bad guy; everyone wants to feel like they have good, rational reasons for their feelings. So if they're very afraid of other races, they will try to find justifications for their fears and reassurances that their fears are healthy and natural. That way, they can feel good about themselves again.



These terms do get thrown around too often, and no, they're obviously not scientific terms, but imo anyone who believes that races are "superior" or "inferior" to other races is a racist. A sexist is a person who believes one gender is superior to another. Biological differences between races and genders don't imply superiority/inferiority and it's kind of stupid to believe that they do. That's the kind of thinking I associate with children, not adults.



I obviously do understand this. I don't believe you understand the implications, though. As I explained above, the environment shapes not only biology but culture, either directly or indirectly. It doesn't make sense to attribute any kind of inherent superiority to the humans that evolved in that environment if any humans from anywhere would have evolved more or less the same way. Animals don't control their own evolution. Being proud of your race is like being proud you're a walrus and had the good sense to evolve all that blubber to keep out the cold.

There are vast differences between individuals of the same race. If racists were really concerned about preserving what they consider Western culture, they'd divide along IQ lines, not race lines. If they segregate, all that's going to happen is that low IQ whites will outbreed high IQ whites and culture will decline anyway. (That's their fear, anyway.)



I have an IQ of 140. Pleased to meet you. (Let's face it, you won't believe me because it's the Internet and people can say whatever they like, but I'm not actually making that up.) I'm just an average transwoman who spends a lot of time thinking about the way other people think.
I believe your IQ is 140

What a Friend we have in Jesus, all our sins and griefs to bear!
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O what peace we often forfeit, O what needless pain we bear,
All because we do not carry everything to God in prayer.
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post #94 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 05:18 AM
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Which he never said. If all you can do is misrepresent him then you have no argument to make. I'll continue to side with him until you can properly debunk him.
he did say that though...how can you ask others to properly debunk him when you havent even read what hes said

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post #95 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 06:33 AM
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he did say that though...how can you ask others to properly debunk him when you havent even read what hes said
He never claimed that differences in medication entails that whites have higher IQs. If he did then quote him.
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post #96 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 06:54 AM
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He never claimed that differences in medication entails that whites have higher IQs. If he did then quote him.
you misunderstood the sentence...

Quote:
Differences in medication does not entail that whites have higher IQs and are more peaceful for genetic reasons.
^is saying that differences in medication does not mean that genetic differences is what leads to differences in IQ and one race being more prone to peace

here is the quote that brings up differences in medication, which the OP is suggesting implies genetic differences:
Quote:
As a matter of fact, race is so real and has such a biological connection, that it is very important for doctors and other medical professionals to know the race of the person they are examining/treating when it comes to certain medications and diseases... For some conditions, you can literally give certain medications to two different people and they will have different reactions based solely on the fact that they are different races. I believe different races also differ in susceptibility to things like heart disease, etc. (propensity to contract said illness).
for higher IQ and being more peaceful, you can look for yourself

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post #97 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 08:52 AM
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you misunderstood the sentence...



^is saying that differences in medication does not mean that genetic differences is what leads to differences in IQ and one race being more prone to peace

here is the quote that brings up differences in medication, which the OP is suggesting implies genetic differences:


for higher IQ and being more peaceful, you can look for yourself
Sure it does. It shows that all differences are influenced by genetics. If genetics is not a factor at all regarding intelligence, then why can gorillas learn sign language but only to a 5th grade level? Because genes affects intelligence. Humans are no less governed by genetics, in facial structure, skin tone, eye color, brain structure, musculature, height, etc. All traits are affected by genetics. Simply because you believe that intelligence is a measure of the value of a human being does not mean evolution sees it the same way. Or OP either. The testing was not biased and does show differences. The only factor remaining after they accounted for language, geographical knowledge, etc, is genetic disposition.
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post #98 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 10:13 AM
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I haven't seen a counterargument yet, only accusations of bias, racism, ignorance, stupidity, etc etc... I'll side with the OP until someone here can debunk the premise he posted with.
The premise being " Sargon The Cuck, Red Pilled Into Oblivion"? And people are supposed to be taking the thread seriously? Would you debate this guy:

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post #99 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 10:20 AM
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lol bitter virgins want to blame anyone but themselves for their inability to get laid, that's why the alt right exists, because of fedora guys.

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post #100 of 122 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 04:17 PM
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Sure it does. It shows that all differences are influenced by genetics. If genetics is not a factor at all regarding intelligence, then why can gorillas learn sign language but only to a 5th grade level? Because genes affects intelligence. Humans are no less governed by genetics, in facial structure, skin tone, eye color, brain structure, musculature, height, etc. All traits are affected by genetics. Simply because you believe that intelligence is a measure of the value of a human being does not mean evolution sees it the same way. Or OP either. The testing was not biased and does show differences. The only factor remaining after they accounted for language, geographical knowledge, etc, is genetic disposition.
i was refuting your initial argument that said the OP didnt say this lol

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