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post #61 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 05:00 PM
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post #62 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 05:03 PM
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You just said whether unemployment goes up or down, it's a sign that Obama suppressed overdue growth.

You literally have no idea what you're talking about.

This is why you burned your 401K to the ground. This is why you won't retire.

Why don't you stop talking SmurfLand Economics and actually learn something about real Economic Markets.
Yes - I said that the unemployment rate could fluctuate if the number of people wanting to work exceeds the number of jobs available. That's the only if. If enough jobs are available (no more 24-hour a week jobs to avoid Obamacare), then people are going to want to look, instead of trying to go after two part-time jobs to equal one full-time job.

My 401K is just fine, buddy. I saw that sucker collapse FIFTY-SEVEN PERCENT in ONE YEAR when the Recession occurred. It took nearly FOUR YEARS to recover - far longer than it should have considering I was still paying into it the whole time! The only blessing for me is that it happened so early in my career, I would recover. I also left it alone as the economy has grown. Eventually, I will need to be less risky because I ain't gettin' any younger.

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post #63 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 05:08 PM
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Yes - I said that the unemployment rate could fluctuate if the number of people wanting to work exceeds the number of jobs available. That's the only if. If enough jobs are available (no more 24-hour a week jobs to avoid Obamacare), then people are going to want to look, instead of trying to go after two part-time jobs to equal one full-time job.
You're not actually saying anything. Your thoughts aren't clear.

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post #64 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 06:06 PM
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Don't tie health insurance to employment then.
America isn't an exceptional country. The solutions and systems that work elsewhere will work in the US as well.
Are you talking about in Europe where the populations are so much smaller? And I'm tieing them together because they are tied together if your force employeers to offer health insurance for full time employees it effects how they hire.

I'm not anti health care I'm just anti the current health care system because it's broken and costly for everyone

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post #65 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 06:09 PM
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Your logic is flawed.


Someone on minimum wage working fulltime May have their hours cut back if Minimum wages are raised. It really depends on demand elasticity and/or margins that can absorb the increase.

In the short term, whenever you change one variable, there are adjustments to they system. But minimum wage has lagged behind inflation since the 1970s, it does need to be trued up.

In the longer term, high minimum wage is better for jobs. People on the bottom end spend their salary. Rich people save their money.
And I'm guessing your against people being hired for what their worth? The moment you say the minumum wage is 15 dollars an hour than anyone who isn't worth that to the company can no longer get a job there. Now your putting far more pressure on the exact people who need a job. 5 dollars an hour is better than 0 dollars an hour.

It used to be that you worked your way up and earned your 30 an hour and now everyone thinks it's just to force people to pay you that when you aren't worth that to the company. Why would company hire someone for more when they come out at a net loss in the end.

Calling my logic flawed without even presenting a good reason why minimum wage is a good ideas doesn't make a good argument.

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post #66 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 06:10 PM
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You're arguing minimum wage should be suppressed to compensate for a broken unaffordable healthcare system.

Why not fix healthcare.

How many people making minimum wage get affordable healthcare benefits?
I did not say minimum wage had anything to do with Healthcare read again

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post #67 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 06:24 PM
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Economics 101

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post #68 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 06:26 PM
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And I'm guessing your against people being hired for what their worth? The moment you say the minumum wage is 15 dollars an hour than anyone who isn't worth that to the company can no longer get a job there. Now your putting far more pressure on the exact people who need a job. 5 dollars an hour is better than 0 dollars an hour.

It used to be that you worked your way up and earned your 30 an hour and now everyone thinks it's just to force people to pay you that when you aren't worth that to the company. Why would company hire someone for more when they come out at a net loss in the end.

Calling my logic flawed without even presenting a good reason why minimum wage is a good ideas doesn't make a good argument.
Minimum wage should be tie to some minimal level of sustainability. And it should be indexed to that. So tie it to the basket cost of food, housing, transportation, etc.

Businesses will always try to pay the least amount possible for labor. Minimum wage put a floor on what someone is worth.

It used to be you had to work your way up to $30/hour. It also used to be that you wouldn't starve trying to do that. If you freeze minimum wage or even drop it, you're really turning the US into a 3rd world country. Inflation will keep rising. And your purchasing power will drop every year.

Minimum wage is a good idea because those on the bottom stimulate the economy the most. Trickle down economics is bullsh*t. It's really more like geyser up. THAT is why minimum wage is a good idea. Higher minimum wages produce more jobs with that high minimum wage.

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post #69 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 07:29 PM
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post #70 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 07:55 PM
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Minimum wage should be tie to some minimal level of sustainability. And it should be indexed to that. So tie it to the basket cost of food, housing, transportation, etc.

Businesses will always try to pay the least amount possible for labor. Minimum wage put a floor on what someone is worth.

It used to be you had to work your way up to $30/hour. It also used to be that you wouldn't starve trying to do that. If you freeze minimum wage or even drop it, you're really turning the US into a 3rd world country. Inflation will keep rising. And your purchasing power will drop every year.

Minimum wage is a good idea because those on the bottom stimulate the economy the most. Trickle down economics is bullsh*t. It's really more like geyser up. THAT is why minimum wage is a good idea. Higher minimum wages produce more jobs with that high minimum wage.
Tell me why a minimum wage is the answer and not better education and job training? Used to be no one had a "proper" education and there was no minimum wage and people still made their own way. Why is the answer making businesses pay for lower qualified employees instead of making the American people acveotable of being worthless.

If your an adult and your starving and your completely capable than your really going to have a hard time explaining why to me especially if your young and can get on the job training. Yeah that right there are many jobs you get paid to be trained for.

It's not that, that adult is stupid they just haven't been shown how to get those jobs and better themselves. Raising the minimum wage doesn't do jack **** for the American people and it's only going to take away jobs and hurt people.

How can you not see that

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post #71 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 09:08 PM
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Tell me why a minimum wage is the answer and not better education and job training? Used to be no one had a "proper" education and there was no minimum wage and people still made their own way. Why is the answer making businesses pay for lower qualified employees instead of making the American people acveotable of being worthless.

If your an adult and your starving and your completely capable than your really going to have a hard time explaining why to me especially if your young and can get on the job training. Yeah that right there are many jobs you get paid to be trained for.

It's not that, that adult is stupid they just haven't been shown how to get those jobs and better themselves. Raising the minimum wage doesn't do jack **** for the American people and it's only going to take away jobs and hurt people.

How can you not see that

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The short answer is that as a society, we determined that a minimal level of pay should be had for any job. We want all our citizens to be fairly compensated. This keep the country politically stable. It helps propagate and economy that creates new jobs. You'll find this in any well developed country. Education isn't mutually exclusive to a minimum wage.

If you go back to the 60s-70s, you could support yourself off a regular minimum wage job. You could save up for college with a summer job. That's not the case today.

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post #72 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 09:12 PM
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The short answer is that as a society, we determined that a minimal level of pay should be had for any job. We want all our citizens to be fairly compensated. This keep the country politically stable. It helps propagate and economy that creates new jobs. You'll find this in any well developed country. Education isn't mutually exclusive to a minimum wage.

If you go back to the 60s-70s, you could support yourself off a regular minimum wage job. You could save up for college with a summer job. That's not the case today.
So by "fair compensation" the solution is to just force people to pay others more money? That doesn't guarantee job security in the slightest. I find your short answer very lacking in any useful information. Your ideas are only a guess at best. What evidence do you have that forcing a minimum wage would insure people get hired? How do you know it's actually benificial for companies? Also why would anyone try to get educated and improve their life if they don't need to to get a job that's sustainable.

The way I see it raising the minimum wage still hurts the lower class far more than it helps.

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post #73 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 09:38 PM
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So by "fair compensation" the solution is to just force people to pay others more money? That doesn't guarantee job security in the slightest. I find your short answer very lacking in any useful information. Your ideas are only a guess at best. What evidence do you have that forcing a minimum wage would insure people get hired? How do you know it's actually benificial for companies? Also why would anyone try to get educated and improve their life if they don't need to to get a job that's sustainable.


The way I see it raising the minimum wage still hurts the lower class far more than it helps.

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Labor is an input of cost. As long as cost is less than revenue, businesses will hire. High wages aren't directly beneficial for companies. But being located in a country with full of well compensated workers=customers with money to spend.

Education was never meant to be something your were forced to get just survive. In case you're interested:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/o...imum-wage.html

http://www.epi.org/publication/why-a...-minimum-wage/

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post #74 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 09:50 PM
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Labor is an input of cost. As long as cost is less than revenue, businesses will hire. High wages aren't directly beneficial for companies. But being located in a country with full of well compensated workers=customers with money to spend.

Education was never meant to be something your were forced to get just survive. In case you're interested:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/o...imum-wage.html

http://www.epi.org/publication/why-a...-minimum-wage/
Your assuming people will get hired and they will have more money to spend. The total money input from people depends on how much everyone make AND how many people actually have a job. If people can't get work because the minimum wage is above their skill level companies arent going to just hire you unless you go full communist and force them to hire people and lose money but then your just destroying buisness.

Also I don't mean education like college , I mean education like general education on how to save money and move up. And also education in the sense of learning how to do something besides flip burgers. You can't tell me people able to work at McDonald's are too stupid to learn a new trade if they got paid to do it. And it's out there but no one teaches people how to get a decent job they just say "go to college it's the only way" which is stupid and false.

Your articles dont provide any information that supports the viability of minimum wage. You don't just make magic money out of thin air by making companies hire people. Your logic is flawed plain and simple, unless you have any actual evidence that it's not just fairy tale bull****

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post #75 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 09:58 PM
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Your assuming people will get hired and they will have more money to spend. The total money input from people depends on how much everyone make AND how many people actually have a job. If people can't get work because the minimum wage is above their skill level companies arent going to just hire you unless you go full communist and force them to hire people and lose money but then your just destroying buisness.

Also I don't mean education like college , I mean education like general education on how to save money and move up. And also education in the sense of learning how to do something besides flip burgers. You can't tell me people able to work at McDonald's are too stupid to learn a new trade if they got paid to do it. And it's out there but no one teaches people how to get a decent job they just say "go to college it's the only way" which is stupid and false.

Your articles dont provide any information that supports the viability of minimum wage. You don't just make magic money out of thin air by making companies hire people. Your logic is flawed plain and simple, unless you have any actual evidence that it's not just fairy tale bull****

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Thats because you didn't read them. And you haven't taken a college macro/micro Economics course. Come back when you have.

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post #76 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 10:00 PM
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post #77 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 10:03 PM
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I understand economics plenty to know this concept. Only morons think you need some ****ing classes to realize the minimum wage is a dumb idea. Silly democrats almost as bad for America as the Republicans. Your both clueless

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post #78 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 10:10 PM
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@MechanicallyMinded . I know you only understood 50% of what I said. If you educated yourself and read a little more, you could understand the rest. Or you could wallow in ignorance. Your choice.

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post #79 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 10:25 PM
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@MechanicallyMinded . I know you only understood 50% of what I said. If you educated yourself and read a little more, you could understand the rest. Or you could wallow in ignorance. Your choice.
I'll wait to talk with someone who actually is smart enough to have a real conversation. I don't expect your type to understand what logic is but that's life. You should learn some basic economics you would sound more intelligent if you did. Hard to take your opinion seriously when you cant even answer basic questions.

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post #80 of 860 (permalink) Old 01-07-2018, 10:46 PM
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You're not actually saying anything. Your thoughts aren't clear.
That's because there are two issues at play. We have more and more jobs being created, but still too many people not looking for work. The latter is closing up. Both factors determine the percentage itself.

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