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post #841 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-26-2019, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
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post #842 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-26-2019, 04:35 PM
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What exactly is Cuba capable of doing?
Not much - because we cut off their opportunity. They were getting enough "help" from the Russians. There's your real collusion.

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post #843 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-26-2019, 04:44 PM
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I guess she's like the new Kathy Lee Gifford: clothing factory fail

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post #844 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-26-2019, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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Not much - because we cut off their opportunity. They were getting enough "help" from the Russians. There's your real collusion.
So if we lifted all restrictions you think they'd still be a problem?
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post #845 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 09:39 PM
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Our news reports more on the States than our own country. I wonder if most Canadians even know there is an election coming up. I had to laugh when the debates moderators were released. They are all women, all wealthy and well educated, all journalists, and all left-wing supporters of the Liberal Party. That seems fair and balanced. Don't think it'll help them though. We are going to end up with a minority government again.

Another thing has been on my mind lately. The PPC put up some billboards that said "Say No to Mass Immigration". These were deemed racist and taken down. What the hell is racist about being against mass immigration? Oh yes, everything is racist anymore. The word is starting to become meaningless. The whole situation seems a bit like censorship to me. Slowly becoming a society where having a different opinion is going to be a crime.
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post #846 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 06:31 AM
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Melanie trump has to be the most useless FLOTUS I've seen. I know her career as a gold digger means she has to behave like a Stepford wife but dotard donald should allow her to have a voice since she's the FLOTUS.

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post #847 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 07:38 AM
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Melanie trump has to be the most useless FLOTUS I've seen. I know her career as a gold digger means she has to behave like a Stepford wife but dotard donald should allow her to have a voice since she's the FLOTUS.
Barbara Bush was also pretty "useless".

Also, nobody should force you to participate in politics--and it's even less appealing in this 2019 environment. Donald Trump was never really a politician, and I wouldn't expect him to have a wife as co-pilot to his politics or his political activities, less one that wasn't born in the US.

And a lot of the more active "first ladies" were generally of an upper class background and/or involved in the public sphere beforehand (Nancy Reagan-actress; Jackie K-wealthy socialite; Eleanor Roosevelt-Teddy's niece). The outliers from either extreme are Betty Ford, who was from a working class family, and Hillary Clinton: manipulative careerist. I don't imagine Melania to be anything like them, not even Betty Ford.

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post #848 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 09:10 AM
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The PPC put up some billboards that said "Say No to Mass Immigration". These were deemed racist and taken down. What the hell is racist about being against mass immigration?
It's kinda racist because otherwise it would be a weak argument. For example: if mass immigration were legal, why would anybody be against it?

-Is legal mass immigration worse than legal individual immigration, and if so, why? cross pollination?? are they so concerned about the customs people working overtime due to mass immigration that they feel they have to protest?<==these are weak arguments for a protest.

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post #849 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 11:24 AM
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Our news reports more on the States than our own country. I wonder if most Canadians even know there is an election coming up. I had to laugh when the debates moderators were released. They are all women, all wealthy and well educated, all journalists, and all left-wing supporters of the Liberal Party. That seems fair and balanced. Don't think it'll help them though. We are going to end up with a minority government again.

Another thing has been on my mind lately. The PPC put up some billboards that said "Say No to Mass Immigration". These were deemed racist and taken down. What the hell is racist about being against mass immigration? Oh yes, everything is racist anymore. The word is starting to become meaningless. The whole situation seems a bit like censorship to me. Slowly becoming a society where having a different opinion is going to be a crime.
I don't get that sense at all. Though you may be right in that we might end up with a minority government. Trudeau is a boob, but I have relatives and friends in the LGBTQ community who are scared if Scheer gets in. Conservatives in Canada aren't much different than in the US. They are not inclusive of everyone. The people who will vote conservative are those who work in the oil and gas industry because they (like most people) vote with their wallet over values, and those who put their religious values above common sense.

As for the billboards, yeah they're kinda racist. Who else is mass migrating today, besides those fleeing war and other persecution in non-white countries? The Irish and Italian mass migrations happened long ago. They were welcomed, and nobody tells them to go back today either. I'll use Trump because he's the easiest example... remember when he asked why they can't get more people from Norway when he was crying about Central Americans migrating? Just because he didn't explicitly say "I want white immigrants, not brown immigrants", doesn't mean that's not the message. People need to be able to see through such bull****.
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post #850 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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Our news reports more on the States than our own country. I wonder if most Canadians even know there is an election coming up. I had to laugh when the debates moderators were released. They are all women, all wealthy and well educated, all journalists, and all left-wing supporters of the Liberal Party. That seems fair and balanced. Don't think it'll help them though. We are going to end up with a minority government again.

Another thing has been on my mind lately. The PPC put up some billboards that said "Say No to Mass Immigration". These were deemed racist and taken down. What the hell is racist about being against mass immigration? Oh yes, everything is racist anymore. The word is starting to become meaningless. The whole situation seems a bit like censorship to me. Slowly becoming a society where having a different opinion is going to be a crime.
I'm not super familiar with how the different political demographics distribute to each party in Canada but I was under the impression that the Liberal Party is more center/center-right similar to the US Democratic party, and the NDP is more on the left wing. Like if Obama and Bernie Sanders were in Canada Obama would probably be in the Liberal Party and Bernie would be in the NDP, is that the case?
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post #851 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 12:45 PM
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I'm not super familiar with how the different political demographics distribute to each party in Canada but I was under the impression that the Liberal Party is more center/center-right similar to the US Democratic party, and the NDP is more on the left wing. Like if Obama and Bernie Sanders were in Canada Obama would probably be in the Liberal Party and Bernie would be in the NDP, is that the case?
Yeah, pretty much.

The liberal party is the de-facto center party. It can swing left on some issues, it can swing right on some issues. In provincial politics they are a little more left than in federal politics.

In the last couple of elections the Conservative party has gone so far to the right that they've made the Liberal party look very left wing in elections...but the Liberals are really not all that great as a government. In a world of extreme politics, center seems antiquated (and if it has weak roots--like the US democratic party--they can be tugged too far into the right).

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post #852 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 01:39 PM
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Yeah, pretty much.

The liberal party is the de-facto center party. It can swing left on some issues, it can swing right on some issues. In provincial politics they are a little more left than in federal politics.

In the last couple of elections the Conservative party has gone so far to the right that they've made the Liberal party look very left wing in elections...but the Liberals are really not all that great as a government. In a world of extreme politics, center seems antiquated (and if it has weak roots--like the US democratic party--they can be tugged too far into the right).
It's hard to give the Liberals the centre party tag anymore. Centre-left would even be stretching it. I mean, they're no Green Party or NDP, but they are pretty liberal. They support abortion, LGBT rights, gun control, multiculturalism, identity politics, international humanitarianism, decriminalizing drugs, recognizance of climate change, clean energy, increased support for indigenous populations, and many other left-wing causes. Hell, they made a big deal of having a gender balanced cabinet. Americans probably think they are downright communists.

Also, funnily enough, in my province of British Columbia the provincial Liberals are the right-wing party.
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post #853 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 01:50 PM
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I don't get that sense at all. Though you may be right in that we might end up with a minority government. Trudeau is a boob, but I have relatives and friends in the LGBTQ community who are scared if Scheer gets in. Conservatives in Canada aren't much different than in the US. They are not inclusive of everyone. The people who will vote conservative are those who work in the oil and gas industry because they (like most people) vote with their wallet over values, and those who put their religious values above common sense.

As for the billboards, yeah they're kinda racist. Who else is mass migrating today, besides those fleeing war and other persecution in non-white countries? The Irish and Italian mass migrations happened long ago. They were welcomed, and nobody tells them to go back today either. I'll use Trump because he's the easiest example... remember when he asked why they can't get more people from Norway when he was crying about Central Americans migrating? Just because he didn't explicitly say "I want white immigrants, not brown immigrants", doesn't mean that's not the message. People need to be able to see through such bull****.
Coming from an oil patch town, I find your point oil and gas workers and their voting to certainly be true. It's hilarious how apolitical everyone is until it concerns their jobs and livelihood. In the 50+ years my riding has existed(if that PG is for Prince George might be yours too), there has been one MP that was not a member of a right-wing party. Kind of irritating how it makes my votes useless.

And it seems that it's mostly Indians, Chinese, and Filipinos that are immigrating these days. I won't deny that there is probably a racial component to the PCCs platform on this issue and that this galvanizes their supporters. I still don't find the idea of limiting immigration inherently racist. There are plenty of whities that come to this country too. Many are concerned not with the race of the immigrants, but about the possibilities of too many low-skilled workers coming in, causing increased competition for jobs and driving down wages, and others about the increased strain on the housing market. But most are no doubt quite ignorant on immigration in general.
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post #854 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 02:27 PM
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Coming from an oil patch town, I find your point oil and gas workers and their voting to certainly be true. It's hilarious how apolitical everyone is until it concerns their jobs and livelihood. In the 50+ years my riding has existed(if that PG is for Prince George might be yours too), there has been one MP that was not a member of a right-wing party. Kind of irritating how it makes my votes useless.

And it seems that it's mostly Indians, Chinese, and Filipinos that are immigrating these days. I won't deny that there is probably a racial component to the PCCs platform on this issue and that this galvanizes their supporters. I still don't find the idea of limiting immigration inherently racist. There are plenty of whities that come to this country too. Many are concerned not with the race of the immigrants, but about the possibilities of too many low-skilled workers coming in, causing increased competition for jobs and driving down wages, and others about the increased strain on the housing market. But most are no doubt quite ignorant on immigration in general.
I don't like how our voting works either. We should be able to vote for our local ridings and provincial/federal leadership. If the Liberal candidate on my ballot is a prick, I need to still vote for him/her if I want the best option of not having Scheer as PM.

Sure there are plenty of white people immigrating to Canada, but not en masse, and white people immigrating are not spoken of badly as a group. Nobody is suggesting the idea of limiting immigration is in itself racist. It just doesn't take much intelligence to be able to see what the message of the PCC (and the GOP in the US) is with immigration. They should be called out for it.

There are definitely issues with things like housing that I am absolutely on board with the government finding a way to get involved in, especially in BC. I'm 35, I make roughly double the minimum wage and I've already given up on buying a house. It makes no sense to me that non-Canadian citizens can buy a house and leave it empty, driving up the cost of a home. It just so happens that it's mostly Chinese people doing that here, and while it's mostly in Vancouver, it affects the rest of BC. There are definitely immigration issues that are not racist, but wanting to shut the doors on those fleeing Syria because ISIS will kill you and your family otherwise, is not one of them.

Regarding low-skilled workers, it depends on the industry. Speaking generally though, I don't have much confidence that we are producing enough skilled workers ourselves. Our Temporary Foreign Worker program is there for a reason. They get jobs in industries ranging from construction to fast food, and much in between. Anytime I read about job forecasts in the trades, it seems like there just won't be enough people to fill the jobs in 10-15 years. It might be a lame example, but when you go to Subway (and many other fast food joints), they employ TFWs because local teenagers don't want those jobs. Making sandwiches and serving coffee is beneath them for some reason. I used to be a retail manager (not in the TFW program), and the effort it took to teach a kid how to fold a f***ing t-shirt was painful, and it's all because they didn't care. One new hire actually asked if he gets a raise for being responsible for folding t-shirts and keeping the store clean. Those attitudes stick with most teenagers into adulthood. (Not trying to hijack the topic, but my last 5-6 years as a retail manager is an experience that still makes my blood boil a bit.)
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post #855 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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It's hard to give the Liberals the centre party tag anymore. Centre-left would even be stretching it. I mean, they're no Green Party or NDP, but they are pretty liberal. They support abortion, LGBT rights, gun control, multiculturalism, identity politics, international humanitarianism, decriminalizing drugs, recognizance of climate change, clean energy, increased support for indigenous populations, and many other left-wing causes. Hell, they made a big deal of having a gender balanced cabinet. Americans probably think they are downright communists.

Also, funnily enough, in my province of British Columbia the provincial Liberals are the right-wing party.
Those are all pretty accepted things among the general population in the US according to years of polling.
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post #856 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 04:44 PM
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And it seems that it's mostly Indians, Chinese, and Filipinos that are immigrating these days. I won't deny that there is probably a racial component to the PCCs platform on this issue and that this galvanizes their supporters. I still don't find the idea of limiting immigration inherently racist. There are plenty of whities that come to this country too.
I don't think it's directly racist either. The problem is that because the national identity is so built on the immigrant (same with the US), it feels contradictory to undo it with a restrictive immigration policy--even if it makes good sense to do it. A nation like Japan, as an opposite example, was built on isolationism and so it is expected to have many restrictions on immigration...and the result for them is a diminishing population. I don't know if any solution is a real winner.

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Many are concerned not with the race of the immigrants, but about the possibilities of too many low-skilled workers coming in, causing increased competition for jobs and driving down wages, and others about the increased strain on the housing market. But most are no doubt quite ignorant on immigration in general.
As an ESL teacher, one of the things that irks me is that despite the need for immigrant/settlement education, the public money allocated to it is proportionally low. Worse is that the majority of the money gets taken by the large colleges and universities to train white-collar workers (Engineers, management, finance). The "low-skilled" immigrant training becomes diminished compared to the high number of people waiting to get educated. There's waiting lists all over Ontario because there are no classrooms for them, and so they must work at the mall and stay "low skilled".

It's a responsibility for both right wing and left wing, really, to solve such issues. I don't know how difficult the global financial situation really is (it's probably worse than anyone is led to know), but the cutting of social supports, or just neglecting it for other "right-wing" priorities, which sadly is the trend, isn't going to help.

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post #857 of 898 (permalink) Old 08-29-2019, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
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It can't be a good idea to try to force a hard Brexit right now while we have the current administration in the US throwing tariffs on everything, seems like the democratic institutions in the US and UK being designed to not function democratically is...stupid. Or maybe not, depending on your point of view.

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post #858 of 898 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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Obama was a crappy president.
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post #859 of 898 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
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It's Labor Day!

Read about American labor history so you can learn about the radical labor organizing in the past and how we benefit from their sacrifices every single day of the year. Their important place in history is widely shut out from the American educational system and really in general. Learn about what they did because you can bet your a** labor movements are important today and probably more so in the future.
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post #860 of 898 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 12:17 PM
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It's Labor Day!

Read about American labor history so you can learn about the radical labor organizing in the past and how we benefit from their sacrifices every single day of the year. Their important place in history is widely shut out from the American educational system and really in general. Learn about what they did because you can bet your a** labor movements are important today and probably more so in the future.
I'd probably side with them Pinkerton fellas.


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