Fascism in the US - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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Fascism in the US


When people talk about the growing threat of fascism I don't think they're being hyperbolic but I think some of them are coming at it from the wrong angle. A lot of people ascribe it to the GOP and some people even seem to think it's a Trump thing and if we get him out of office and replace him with a Biden or a Kamala Harris it will be a return to "normalcy".

The threat of fascism in the US has been a long time coming, the end of WW2 might have been a temporary end of it in parts of the world but it could be argued the end of WW2 is when the current growing threat of fascism is when it first found it's roots.

During economic depressions people are angry, confused, and are looking for answers, that's when it's easy for a firebrand right-winger to preach nationalism and blame immigrants or 'others' as being the cause of the problem. I'm not just talking about Hitler and I'm not just talking about Trump, I'm saying historically that's a pretty common reaction to economic turmoil. That's the way parts of Europe went during the 20s and 30s, but during the Great Depression the US went a different direction.

A lot of liberals like to romanticize FDR and think of him as a progressive God who descended down to America to help the millions of downtrodden people during the Great Depression. Which isn't the case at all. During that time in our country we had a strong leftwing political apparatus, among other parties we had 2 strong socialist parties and strong communist party, we had strong unions, etc, basically workers had power and they also had a knowledge of their options. Once the depression hit, the communist and socialist parties, the unions, and the people in general forced FDR to turn his back on the corporations and the rich and become a president of the people. He didn't have a choice. By the time WW2 ended it was basically the revenge of the corporations, they demonized the word 'socialism', imprisoned anyone who had any connections to any leftwing politics, started busting unions, yadda yadda the whole 'red scare'.

Basically the political organizations we had that got us out of the Great Depression were and are destroyed, the knowledge of leftwing politics we had was not only lost but completely demonized w/ anti left propaganda, even to this day the majority of Americans don't know what 'socialism' is but they're so confident in their claims that it's bad, undemocratic, unAmerican, and probably also evil.

Economic fascism is when people have lost all their worker power and rights and when things turn for the worst economically speaking they have no actual power to determine what the country will do next like we did in the 30s with FDR, and instead, the corporations make the decisions, a total corporate-capture of the government, leading to a lot of powerless and f***ed over citizens. It's been a slow boil but as a country we've been willingly heading in that direction for decades.

After WW2 corporations/the rich did away with us even having a knowledge of left-wing politics, that's why we think Bill Clinton was on the left, and Bernie Sanders is on the extreme far left (but anywhere in Europe Bill Clinton is center-right and Bernie Sanders is center-left) In the 80s we as a country basically adopted an ideology that openly says 'Corporations will come up with the solutions to our problems', not just the Republican party, but the Democratic party too, Bill Clinton and Obama both played a huge role in helping to further consolidate power into the hands of the rich. The Democratic party is as complicit as the Republican party. Every election cycle the last 40 years the GOP moves further right and the Democratic party never poses a real opposition, they try to capitulate and at the very best they'll "resist", not even try to regain ground towards the left, Dems have been taking the ride w/ the GOP to the right for the last half century.

In capitalism, when there's a recession the people don't just naturally recover, most Americans have yet to recover from the 2008 recession, and by many accounts we're headed for another one in 2020, at least according to the banks, and if the banks are admitting it...I'll take their word for it. So a country full of people still waiting for a recovery from the last recession and quickly facing an even bigger recession soon, we've given up all our worker rights, like 5% of the country is unionized, we're all still scared of 'socialism', and we've elected a firebrand leader promoting nationalism and demonizing immigrants because they're somehow a big part of why we're struggling apparently.

What could go wrong?

tl;dr: We're f***ed.
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 04:47 PM
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What I always find confusing about politics is that there are elections every 4 years. So if the democrats win next year will all the work or destruction (I'm keeping it in the middle) of Trump and the Republicans be in vain? What can one or one's party accomplish in a mere 4 years?
Let's say Bernie wins the elections will he erase all the things Trump changed, for example the Iran nuclear deal? Will the hostilities with Iran immediately cease?

I'm probably a communist by saying this but at least Xi Jinping or Poetin get time to change or let a country progress and grow. I never really understood democracy. One party wins the elections then they have to find a coalition with the parties that lost the elections, doesn't make sense to me. Where I live the 2 biggest parties will probably be left out of the coalition by the losing parties because they form a majority and don't want the 2 biggest parties in the government. So the votes of the majority of the people are basically in vain...
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by conantheworthless View Post
What I always find confusing about politics is that there are elections every 4 years. So if the democrats win next year will all the work or destruction (I'm keeping it in the middle) of Trump and the Republicans be in vain? What can one or one's party accomplish in a mere 4 years?
Let's say Bernie wins the elections will he erase all the things Trump changed, for example the Iran nuclear deal? Will the hostilities with Iran immediately cease?

I'm probably a communist by saying this but at least Xi Jinping or Poetin get time to change or let a country progress and grow. I never really understood democracy. One party wins the elections then they have to find a coalition with the parties that lost the elections, doesn't make sense to me. Where I live the 2 biggest parties will probably be left out of the coalition by the losing parties because they form a majority and don't want the 2 biggest parties in the government. So the votes of the majority of the people are basically in vain...
In this country most things that are good for the people are temporary and/or easily wiped out, anything that's good for corporations, the rich, and the government itself usually persist and builds with each president, and there's never much pressure to get rid of any of them, and if there is strong pressure from the people to get rid of something then it's still not very likely.

And I'm not just being cynical when I say that, it's pretty much how it is, even the things that have the highest approval rating among the people like Social Security or Medicare is always running the risk of getting defunded, always by the Republicans, and if the Democrats are in power there are enough sh**ty Democrats to still make it a risk.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 05:06 PM
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I think people in western countries generally have it too good to really protest so nothing much changes. The middle class which is the majority is having a decent life so why protest? Riots (for change) are almost non existant and when they occur it's usually just a bunch of young hot heads that like to cause a stir or a minority.
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by conantheworthless View Post
I think people in western countries generally have it too good to really protest so nothing much changes. The middle class which is the majority is having a decent life so why protest? Riots (for change) are almost non existant and when they occur it's usually just a bunch of young hot heads that like to cause a stir or a minority.
We don't really have the middle class that we used to at this point, but we do have riots and strikes constantly, but they never get any coverage on tv, so they don't seem like they're happening.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 09:36 AM
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Racism and fascism seem to go together. The GOP think they are getting away with pretending the POS POTUS is the only racist / fascist in their party. But no one is fooled by their silence / collusion / collaboration.



Another right-wing snowflake took out his assault rifle / surrogate penis this weekend and murdered children at the Garlic Festival in Gilroy, CA.


And remember, after WWII a lot of those enemy scientists were transferred to the USA, including Werner Von Braun. Because of course, white supremacy is built into the foundation of the USA.

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 10:36 AM
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We don't really have the middle class that we used to at this point, but we do have riots and strikes constantly, but they never get any coverage on tv, so they don't seem like they're happening.
Wouldn't the middle class be growing under Trump? More people are working and making lives for themselves.


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Racism and fascism seem to go together. The GOP think they are getting away with pretending the POS POTUS is the only racist / fascist in their party. But no one is fooled by their silence / collusion / colabaration.

Another right-wing snowflake took out his assault rifle / surrogate penis this weekend and murdered children at the Garlic Festival in Gilroy, CA.

And remember, after WWII a lot of those enemy scientists were transferred to the USA, including Werner Von Braun. Because of course, white supremacy is built into the foundation of the USA.
Really? I don't understand how you could conclude that Trump is racist when he has helped everyone and tried to hold people accountable. Yes, his statements are blunt, but blindly calling people a racist isn't exactly a good thing either. There are plenty of people on the other side who have their own issues. "Antifa" is more anarchist in behavior than anything.


How do you know he is "right-wing"? Is that conclusion solely based on the fact that he had a firearm?


If they made it here, I hadn't heard of him, so I guess his influence wasn't as apparent as, say, Bernie Sanders or Joseph McCarthy.

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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by conantheworthless View Post
I think people in western countries generally have it too good to really protest so nothing much changes. The middle class which is the majority is having a decent life so why protest? Riots (for change) are almost non existant and when they occur it's usually just a bunch of young hot heads that like to cause a stir or a minority.
In most areas, yes. There are several areas where things are not good, and the people keep voting in the wrong people for the job based on their party.


....Bill deBlasio comes to mind.

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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 10:55 AM
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I see Fascist type rhetoric coming from Both sides.
Trump saying things that only a king or dictator would say.
Meanwhile people on the far left implement or wish to implement behavior control policies that are very fascist. Handing over a great deal of freedom and choice over to the Government. I take a more Libertarian stance, but I don't particularly find the Libertarian Party appealing either. I feel like I'm literally in the middle of a war and the outlier of common sense between Right wing ideology and Left Wing Ideology. Particularly from the left in that they seem to want to dismantle things that actually make sense for the country. I don't want to cite specifics as that'll just create a trigger war. I'm sure you can all infer from what I'm saying.
But people have taken this hardline stance to their side and the country as a whole be damned. Both sides need to exist as a checks and balance. Too much power from one party or the other creates in my view the fascist dictator like conditions.

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 11:20 AM
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trump manipulating entitled conservatives has made fascism popular in the US but history will paint these people in a negative light.

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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sabbath9 View Post
Racism and fascism seem to go together. The GOP think they are getting away with pretending the POS POTUS is the only racist / fascist in their party. But no one is fooled by their silence / collusion / colabaration.



Another right-wing snowflake took out his assault rifle / surrogate penis this weekend and murdered children at the Garlic Festival in Gilroy, CA.


And remember, after WWII a lot of those enemy scientists were transferred to the USA, including Werner Von Braun. Because of course, white supremacy is built into the foundation of the USA.
Yeah racism is definitely a factor, really any way to divide up a population is a factor, whether it's race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, generational, etc. Having a weak economy is a huge part of it too, weak at least for the general population, because money is power, so if the general population doesn't have much money they have less of a chance of self-determination, and then you divide them up into different groups so that they also lose their potential power of numbers, just small groups who refuse to join together.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 11:41 AM
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trump manipulating entitled conservatives has made fascism popular in the US but history will paint these people in a negative light.
What?!
How has he manipulated conservatives?
Is "patriotism" fascist? By leftist definition, it never used to be.


US history is going to paint "The Squad" and their minions, as well as the current "Deep State" in a "negative light".


This is going to make one heck of a chapter in the U.S. history books of our children. Internal subversion of the Presidency specifically because they labeled him a "sexist", "racist", and couldn't stick to helping America, is going to be quite the lesson planning for teachers in the future.

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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 11:42 AM
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Yeah racism is definitely a factor, really any way to divide up a population is a factor, whether it's race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, generational, etc. Having a weak economy is a huge part of it too, weak at least for the general population, because money is power, so if the general population doesn't have much money they have less of a chance of self-determination, and then you divide them up into different groups so that they also lose their potential power of numbers, just small groups who refuse to join together.

I just said if more people had money, this wouldn't be as much of an issue. Trump is doing that in a way Sanders won't!


People are becoming more empowered if they have a job. They are contributing!

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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 12:23 PM
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What?!
How has he manipulated conservatives?
Is "patriotism" fascist? By leftist definition, it never used to be.


US history is going to paint "The Squad" and their minions, as well as the current "Deep State" in a "negative light".


This is going to make one heck of a chapter in the U.S. history books of our children. Internal subversion of the Presidency specifically because they labeled him a "sexist", "racist", and couldn't stick to helping America, is going to be quite the lesson planning for teachers in the future.
Fascism isn't patriotism. One of the many reason why I'll be voting American and not republican next Nov.

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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I just said if more people had money, this wouldn't be as much of an issue. Trump is doing that in a way Sanders won't!


People are becoming more empowered if they have a job. They are contributing!
Why even try to talk about Sanders when you have no clue what he's about? He's working with the same ideas that basically built our middle class in the 40s and 50s.

Trump talks about the unemployment rate and the stock market, none of those things translate into a good economy for the general population, people having a job doesn't mean there's economic security for them, the economy is often described as 'precarious' by actual economists, actual bank executives are saying there's going to be a recession soon. You know the term 'gig economy', that's our current situation, that's not a good thing.
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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 01:21 PM
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Why even try to talk about Sanders when you have no clue what he's about? He's working with the same ideas that basically built our middle class in the 40s and 50s.

Trump talks about the unemployment rate and the stock market, none of those things translate into a good economy for the general population, people having a job doesn't mean there's economic security for them, the economy is often described as 'precarious' by actual economists, actual bank executives are saying there's going to be a recession soon. You know the term 'gig economy', that's our current situation, that's not a good thing.
The economic boom during that era happened because every other major world power was essentially rubble and their factories bombed into oblivion. Equating economic recovery to FDR's new deal policies is dishonest. The gig economy exists because protectionist policies make it more difficult to hold full time employees rather than handing out "gigs" given the baggage that comes with them. There's a lot of things I support on the democratic side of the isle, and there are good things that can be done. Breaking up monopolies for example, some thing that needs to be done again because capitalism inevitably results in those monopolies eventually. It's Teddy Roosevelt you can thank for that.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 01:23 PM
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Why even try to talk about Sanders when you have no clue what he's about? He's working with the same ideas that basically built our middle class in the 40s and 50s.

Trump talks about the unemployment rate and the stock market, none of those things translate into a good economy for the general population, people having a job doesn't mean there's economic security for them, the economy is often described as 'precarious' by actual economists, actual bank executives are saying there's going to be a recession soon. You know the term 'gig economy', that's our current situation, that's not a good thing.
Are you kidding? Sanders can't even say the word "dollar"! What ideas? All he wants to do is raise the minimum wage to a "living wage" in his eyes, but he doesn't seem to know or care what raising the minimum wage to "15 bucks an ow-ah" is going to do to the average business. They are going to have to move that cost somewhere, either to the consumer or the elimination of hiring to save money!


What? More automation at McDonald's?! That's job loss! Yeah, I worked at McDonald's....and not as a manager. I knew that I could do better, which is why you don't need a crew member to be $15 an hour! They'd double the price of everything they sell to pay for the employee!


There still has to be personal motivation to improve. Education is important.


Upcoming recession? Yes, it's bound to arrive and do you know what is going to trigger this one?! HEALTHCARE. Just like the Democrats' "everybody needs to own a house" in the 2000s, there will be a "everybody has to have healthcare".......well, those bills are going to be defauilted on with the Baby Boom generation aging and all. Who do you think is going to pay for all those people who were promised free health care (a la Bernie Sanders) and can't pay for the treatment they receive?!


The moment gasoline prices start rising (and they are in Ohio thanks to a Governor-imposed sales tax hikle per gallon), people will be diverting money for gas and food...and TAXES (the Great Recession was defaulting on mortgages, but they won't be hit this time......the taxes will have to go up to pay for Bernie/Obamacare).


"Medicare for All" sounds good to people, to get their vote, and then just wait and see what happens.

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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 01:28 PM
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Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy[3] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.[4] The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I, before spreading to other European countries.[4] Opposed to liberalism, Marxism, and anarchism, fascism is placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum
radical right wing = trump? the rest, no.

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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 03:02 PM
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defined

Radical right wing = trump? the rest, no.
Well, the fascism that occurred in Italy developed into a dictatorship. It also turned socialist organizations into such villains (they scared the liberal class into thinking they were aligned with lennin) that the liberal class were left with few ideological arguments--especially as it was the liberal class that led Italy into its economic depression.

Italian fascism also took an aggressive foreign policy and colonized a good chunk of Africa as well as Albania. The populous considered these acts as "successes".

Does it sound like anything the US right wing could possibly do in the near future?

For me, yes, but it may not necessarily be Donald Trump. There may be plenty of help from the democratic party. In times of crisis, they will sell out to save their necks guaranteed.

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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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The economic boom during that era happened because every other major world power was essentially rubble and their factories bombed into oblivion. Equating economic recovery to FDR's new deal policies is dishonest. The gig economy exists because protectionist policies make it more difficult to hold full time employees rather than handing out "gigs" given the baggage that comes with them. There's a lot of things I support on the democratic side of the isle, and there are good things that can be done. Breaking up monopolies for example, some thing that needs to be done again because capitalism inevitably results in those monopolies eventually. It's Teddy Roosevelt you can thank for that.
There are a lot of things that we did under FDR and Eisenhower that we haven't done since and should revisit. I know WW2 gave us a huge advantage as far as manufacturing jobs and having Europe as a huge market to sell to, but there are other things we can do, and things we need to stop doing. The main thing we need to stop doing is tax cuts, if you look at the corporations who did the most lobbying for them and told us about their promises to expand and build jobs etc well once they got the tax cuts they unsurprisingly laid off tens of thousands of workers and automated. The % of the workforce that got a one-time bonus or a raise specifically due to the 2018 tax cuts, 5%. The tax cuts are and always have been a false advertisement and it accelerates automation.

Anyway there are things we can do to build jobs, the one glaringly obvious example is our infrastructure, our infrastructure has had a grade of D+ for years based off of international standards. That could be around 15 million new jobs right there. There are also countless jobs that could be filled if we worked on transitioning to a green economy, working on renewable energy is a massive job maker, but so far we're going backwards on that.
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