Does Hitler Scare you ? How could one man cause such a disaster ? - Page 2 - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #21 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 01:52 AM
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I don't think he really had to convince most people, he exploited existing frustrations they already had to get elected. All of the groups who were targeted in the Holocaust have also been hated in pretty much all Human societies by significant numbers. There have always been a bunch of conspiracies involving Jewish people in particular too, in every country with significant numbers. Actually antisemitism in particular has been referred to as 'the longest hatred.'

Hitler also had to kill a bunch of people too and get his own paramilitary organisation before even getting into office:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives

Actually I was always more focused on Mengele:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele

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Originally Posted by Micronian View Post
In the US, it will not be ONE person that does it. I don't think a dictatorship will be the avenue to a "holocaust". It's going to be a unified philosophy of business, supported unanimously by the two-party system and the military. But I'm not sure who in America will be the sacrificial victims.
Yeah I imagine so.
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post #22 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 02:39 AM
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Yeah I imagine so.
I don't personally think there will be any kind of actual "Holocaust" type of thing. Not in the way we think of the term anyway. Unless something drastic happens. It's probably not going to be any kind of mass murder in a Hitler type of scenario. It's going to be something more like mass human rights abuses that are swept under the rug. It doesn't have to be mass murder to be pretty much the same thing.

/WYSD
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post #23 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 03:16 AM
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No, Hitler doesn't scare me neither does Nazi Germany. As horrible as the atrocities committed by them are the same things were happening around the world during the same time period they merely aren't as focused on. That includes the allied powers things like the dresden bombings, fire bombing of Japan ect were gross human rights abuses. There was also experimentation and biological warfare that happened that's largely memory holed from history. The Japanese used the manchurians/koreans for very much the same purposes that the Nazis used Jews. The Russians used Ukranians. Americans said we'll forget about some of this **** if you give us the results of these projects. Fun times.

In conclusion I think you're all wrong it's not fear or stupidity that allows these sort of crimes. It's the belief of moral superiority that allows people to excuse themselves from vile acts that in their mind is justifiable. Everyone did horrible things during the great war but the things we did were good because they were inherently moral to do in our view point. This is also why religion is such a useful tool in war because it gives moral excuse and forgiveness to acts of pure evil. Also dehumanizing your opponents.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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post #24 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 03:39 AM
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There must be something that bothers you as its not human nature otherwise.
It all bothers me.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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post #25 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 02:09 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Nonsensical View Post
No, Hitler doesn't scare me neither does Nazi Germany. As horrible as the atrocities committed by them are the same things were happening around the world during the same time period they merely aren't as focused on. That includes the allied powers things like the dresden bombings, fire bombing of Japan ect were gross human rights abuses. There was also experimentation and biological warfare that happened that's largely memory holed from history. The Japanese used the manchurians/koreans for very much the same purposes that the Nazis used Jews. The Russians used Ukranians. Americans said we'll forget about some of this **** if you give us the results of these projects. Fun times.

In conclusion I think you're all wrong it's not fear or stupidity that allows these sort of crimes. It's the belief of moral superiority that allows people to excuse themselves from vile acts that in their mind is justifiable. Everyone did horrible things during the great war but the things we did were good because they were inherently moral to do in our view point. This is also why religion is such a useful tool in war because it gives moral excuse and forgiveness to acts of pure evil. Also dehumanizing your opponents.
Hm...good point.
I just think that...in telling the story of the Holocaust in our Education system we should focus more on what led to it...instead of just "Hitler was an evil man"...because like I said...Hitler himself did not kill millions of Jews....the nation did ...that's what we need to focus on...so that the collective isn't so easily brainwashed in the future.
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post #26 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 08:10 AM
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Hm...good point.
I just think that...in telling the story of the Holocaust in our Education system we should focus more on what led to it...instead of just "Hitler was an evil man"...because like I said...Hitler himself did not kill millions of Jews....the nation did ...that's what we need to focus on...so that the collective isn't so easily brainwashed in the future.
In public school they have to make the message really simple, though. It may be tough to get all the 14-year olds to understand the underlying social and bureaucratic systems.

I remember in my 10th grade history class they characterized Hitler as a cult leader, and nazi germany as his cult where citizens got "brainwashed" into doing evil things through fear and propaganda. It's a very simple way to get to the point (kind of like Obi-wan Kenobi telling Luke that Darth Vader killed his father) which skips a lot of other "why" questions. You pretty much just write down this type of answer on the test to get your history credit and move on to more important things, like how to cover up your newest pimple and choosing what music to listen to so you could fit in .

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post #27 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 11:14 AM
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post #28 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 02:52 PM
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post #29 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 04:00 PM
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It's cyclical because a lot of the themes repeat themselves because personality traits don't change that much and so neither do the sides. Jewish people tend to be targeted because they're usually over-represented in positions of power and cultural influence due probably to their higher group intelligence, and people need someone to place at the top of the pyramid when it comes to assigning blame. Some people fixate on race more than others though.

Fascism specifically seems to happen when a group of people decide society is too weak/feminised and simultaneously feel threatened by external tribes, they become hypersensitive to signs that people don't identify with the nation. Others feed into it by becoming very nihilistic and misanthropic (really this applies to any transformative force.) Also there's a strong push for social anti-egalitarianism and purity and a kind of ideal superman. Fascism puts the nation above the individual though so it attracts a different set of people than for those who like individual competition. (eg: Objectivists/libertarians/LaVeyan Satanists. Who would probably see it as quite weak if anything. I think Evola skirted that line a bit.) The more in favour of individual competition someone is, the less they'll like fascism. Even if they agree with some of the surrounding points (which a larger group do.)

Damn I'm going to have to split this in two.

Savitri Devi:

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"A 'civilization' that makes such a ridiculous fuss about alleged 'war crimes' - acts of violence against the actual or potential enemies of one's cause - and tolerates slaughterhouses and vivisection laboratories, and circuses and the fur industry (infliction of pain upon creatures that can never be for or against any cause), does not deserve to live."
Quote:
“I worship impersonal Nature, which is neither "good" or "bad", and who knows neither love nor hatred. I worship Life; the Sun, Sustainer of life. I believe in the Law of everlasting struggle, which is the law of life, and in the duty of the best specimens of our race — the natural élite of mankind — to rule the earth, and evolve out of themselves a caste of supermen, a people 'like unto the Gods'.”
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I'm for a multi-racial world in which each race keeps to itself, in harmony with the other races. Like in a garden, you have flowerbeds of roses and flowerbeds of carnations and irises and different other flowers. They don't intermarry. They stay separate, and each one has its beauty. . . . I'm against colonialism for the reason that colonialism infects the master as well as the slave. It even infects the master more.
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She believed Hitler was a sacrifice for humanity which would lead to the end of the Kali Yuga induced by those who she felt were the powers of evil: the Jews. Her writings have influenced neo-Nazism and Nazi occultism.
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That last, great individual — an absolutely harmonious blending of the sharpest of all opposites; equally sun and lightning — is the one whom the faithful of all religions and the bearers of practically all cultures await; the one of whom Adolf Hitler (knowingly or unknowingly) said, in 1928: "I am not he; but while nobody comes forward to prepare the way for him, I do so"; the one whom I have called by his Hindu name, Kalki, on account of the cosmic truth that this name evokes.
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The Jew is dangerous by his very essence: by belonging to the people whose historical role was to spread falsehood: the "chosen" people of disintegration without whom neither Maxism nor Christianity - this "Bolshevism of the ancient world," as the Fuhrer put it so well - would ever have seen the light of day.
^ I get strong autism vibes from this one. Interesting to think about psychologically she was basically like IRL Poison Ivy lols. (I mean there are some very important differences too but you know what I mean.)

Julius Evola:

Quote:
"Western Civilisation needs a complete overhaul or it will fall apart one day or another. It has realised the most complete perversion of any rational order of things. Reign of matter, of gold, of machine, of number, it no longer possesses breath, or libetry, or light. The West has lost the sense of command and obedience. It has lost the sense of Action and of Contemplation. It has lost the sense of hierarchy, of spiritual power, of mangods
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The ultimate framework of the Jewish question might be described as a metaphysical struggle protracted throughout the ages. Within such a framework, certain organizations - most recently, political Freemasonry, as well as secular Judaism - have merely played the role of tools subordinate to vaster influences. [...]
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Again, we can see that the various facets of the contemporary social and political chaos are interrelated and that it is impossible to effectively contrast them other than by returning to the origins. To go back to the origins means, plain and simple, to reject everything that, in every domain, whether social, political and economic, is connected to the “immortal principles” of 1789 in the guise of libertarian, individualistic and egalitarian thought, and to oppose to it a hierarchical view. It is only in the context of such a view that the value and freedom of man as a person are not mere words or pretexts for a work of destruction and subversion ».(61)
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“My principles are only those that, before the French Revolution, every well-born person considered sane and normal.”
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“The best and most authentic reaction against feminism and against every other female aberration should not be aimed at women as such, but at men instead. It should not be expected of women that they return to what they really are and thus reestablish the necessary inner and outer conditions for a reintegration of a superior race, when men themselves retain only the semblance of true virility.”
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He expressed anti-nationalist sentiment, stating that to become "truly human," one would have to "overcome brotherly contamination" and "purge oneself" of the feeling that one is united with others "because of blood, affections, country or human destiny." He also opposed the futurism that Italian fascism was aligned with, along with the "plebeian" nature of the movement.[30]:86 Accordingly, Evola launched the journal La Torre (The Tower), to voice his concerns and advocate for a more elitist fascism.[11] Evola's ideas were poorly received by the fascist mainstream as it stood at the time of his writing.
^ he's a lot more popular now.

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We know what high consideration the social matriarchate held in Marxist historiography; it was regarded as the primordial social constitution and the original state of justice, which were ended by the institution of private property and the political form associated with it. However, the regression from the masculine to the feminine is equally visible in the previously mentioned revolutionary ideologies. The image of the fatherland as Mother, as Land of which we are all children and before we we are all equals and brothers, clearly recalls that physical, feminine-maternal order from which "men" separate themselves in order to create the virile and luminous order of the state.
...
Moreover, it is a very significant fact that country and nation have prevalently been allegorized through feminine figures, even among peoples whose land had a neuter or masculine, rather than a feminine name. The sacred character and inviolability of "nation" and of "people" are merely the transposition of features attributed to the Great Mother in ancient plebian gyneocracies.
Benito Mussolini

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Democracy is beautiful in theory; in practice it is a fallacy. You in America will see that some day.
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War is to man what maternity is to a woman. From a philosophical and doctrinal viewpoint, I do not believe in perpetual peace.
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It is humiliating to remain with our hands folded while others write history. It matters little who wins. To make a people great it is necessary to send them to battle even if you have to kick them in the pants. That is what I shall do.
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post #30 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 04:01 PM
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Part 2.

Josef Mengele:

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There can't be two smart peoples in the world. We're going to win the war, so only the Aryan race will stand. The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.
Quote:
The Jewish people, no matter where they are, they become the best in the world.
Hitler:

Quote:
Man has become great through perpetual struggle. In perpetual peace his greatness must decline.
Quote:
“The stronger must dominate and not mate with the weaker, which would signify the sacrifice of its own higher nature. Only the born weakling can look upon this principle as cruel, and if he does so it is merely because he is of a feebler nature and narrower mind; for if such a law did not direct the process of evolution then the higher development of organic life would not be conceivable at all.”
Quote:
“The receptivity of the masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan.”
Quote:
“The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation.”
Quote:
Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.
Quote:
“I don't see much future for the Americans ... it's a decayed country. And they have their racial problem, and the problem of social inequalities ... my feelings against Americanism are feelings of hatred and deep repugnance ... everything about the behaviour of American society reveals that it's half Judaised, and the other half negrified. How can one expect a State like that to hold together?”
Quote:
The Jewish doctrine of Marxism rejects the aristocratic principle of Nature and replaces the eternal privilege of power and strength by the mass of numbers and their dead weight. Thus it denies the value of personality in man, contests the significance of nationality and race, and thereby withdraws from humanity the premise of its existence and its culture. As a foundation of the universe, this doctrine would bring about the end of any order intellectually conceivable to man. And as, in this greatest of all recognizable organisms, the result of an application of such a law could only be chaos, on earth it could only be destruction for the inhabitants of this planet.

If, with the help of his Marxist creed, the Jew is victorious over the other peoples of the world, his crown will be the funeral wreath of humanity and this planet will, as it did thousands of years ago, move through the ether devoid of men.

Eternal Nature inexorably avenges the infringement of her commands.

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord
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Any alliance whose purpose is not the intention to wage war is senseless and useless.
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Not until I gradually settled down to my surroundings, and the confused picture began to grow clearer, did I acquire a more discriminating view of my new world. And with that I came up against the Jewish problem.
I will not say that the manner in which I first became acquainted with it was particularly unpleasant for me. In the Jew I still saw only a man who was of a different religion, and therefore, on grounds of human tolerance, I was against the idea that he should be attacked because he had a different faith. And so I considered that the tone adopted by the anti-Semitic Press in Vienna was unworthy of the cultural traditions of a great people. ... Generally speaking, these anti-Semitic newspapers did not belong to the first rank--but I did not then understand the reason of this--and so I regarded them more as the products of jealousy and envy rather than the expression of a sincere, though wrong-headed, feeling.
Quote:
I gradually discovered that the Social Democratic Press was predominantly controlled by Jews. But I did not attach special importance to this circumstance, for the same state of affairs existed also in other newspapers. But there was one striking fact in this connection. It was that there was not a single newspaper with which Jews were connected that could be spoken of as National, in the meaning that my education and convictions attached to that word.
Quote:
The Jewish doctrine of Marxism repudiates the aristocratic principle of Nature and substitutes for it the eternal privilege of force and energy, numerical mass and its dead weight. Thus it denies the individual worth of the human personality, impugns the teaching that nationhood and race have a primary significance, and by doing this it takes away the very foundations of human existence and human civilization. If the Marxist teaching were to be accepted as the foundation of the life of the universe, it would lead to the disappearance of all order that is conceivable to the human mind. And thus the adoption of such a law would provoke chaos in the structure of the greatest organism that we know, with the result that the inhabitants of this earthly planet would finally disappear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalí
I often dreamed of Hitler as a woman. His flesh, which I had imagined whiter than white, ravished me... There was no reason for me to stop telling one and all that to me Hitler embodied the perfect image of the great masochist who would unleash a world war solely for the pleasure of losing and burying himself beneath the rubble of an empire; the gratuitous action par excellence that should indeed have warranted the admiration of the Surrealists.
Opps forgot what I was doing here. Truthfully now, I can't think about Hitler without thinking of that Dalí quote. It's made him a bit more interesting because he's actually kind of a boring figure overall.

He got expelled from the surrealist movement for that fixation lol:

Quote:
The 1930s saw a new addition to Dalí’s themes relating to Surrealism, this time the historic figure of Adolf Hitler, who the artist identified with Maldoror, inspiring works like The Enigma of Hitler, from 1939. For the Surrealists – who had never been comfortable with the brazen way in which Salvador Dalí exhibited his sexual obsessions in public – Dalí’s representation of Hitler was beyond the pale, and it was decided to expel him from the group led by André Breton. So Dalí left Europe to settle in the United States, at the same time starting a series of paintings with a mystical-religious theme, which would be followed by the group of works that make up what is called his nuclear period.

The subject of The Enigma of Hitler coincides in part with that of another painting that Dalí had done the previous year in 1938: Violetas imperials (Imperial Violets). Paradoxically, although the central motif in both compositions is a telephone receiver, their contents differ absolutely, given that, as Dalí himself said, the title of the 1938 painting comes from the title of a film starring the American tenor and actor Mario Lanza.
This one is not a fan:

https://culturacolectiva.com/art/sal...on-with-hitler
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post #31 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 04:33 PM
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Hitler or his minions weren't separate from humanity they were part of it, what happened then doesn't rest on one man's or nation's shoulders, it lurks in the collective conscious of us all ready to express itself again under the the right circumstances.

Saying we're scared of Hitler is saying we're scared of ourselves & maybe rightly so, we love taking the moral high ground, having something to point at & say "It's him, he's the bad guy"






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Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow,
A poor player that strut's and fret's his hour upon the stage and is heard no more,
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
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post #32 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 04:46 PM
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As usual with conversations about WW2, people are grossly oversimplifying the history. Hitler did not fricking convince millions of people to participate in a genocide, that's ridiculous. If the entire population had known there was an industrial genocide going on, it would have been much more difficult for him to maintain his power. Deception and secrecy were key to pulling off something like the holocaust. I mean, even in a movie like The Boy in the Striped Pajamas, which is hardly a documentary, there is a scene where the Germans are watching propaganda film painting the concentration camps as pleasant places to live.

This was combined with using extreme fear to prevent people questioning the official narratives. Hitler had come to power with only 1/3 of the vote (people like to conveniently leave this fact out, also some of these votes came from communists and fascists both being perceived as bad). In the first year of his reign as dictator, there were tens of thousands of political arrests and executions by the Gestapo. All major political opponents were thus eliminated.

Was there racism among the general population? Yes, but not to the extent of wanting a genocide. The separation of the Jews from the rest of the population into ghettos, and the infringement on their civil liberties, was normalized. However, segregation similiar to this was also practiced in America at the time against the African-American population, under Jim Crow. And even today the Israelis are doing something similiar to the Palestinians. So discriminatory practices like these do not always lead to something worse.

Most Nazi atrocities were carried by Hitler's fanatic paramilitary - the SS. The Wehrmacht also committed some atrocities, but this was more variable, depending on the level of individual army commanders' commitment to Nazi ideology. Some generals would order their troops to help with the shooting of civilians, other generals tried to fight a "clean" war. When it comes to the industrial killing of other ethnic groups in concentration camps, few people would have known with certainty what was actually going on.
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post #33 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 06:23 PM
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post #34 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 06:42 PM
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As usual with conversations about WW2, people are grossly oversimplifying the history. Hitler did not fricking convince millions of people to participate in a genocide, that's ridiculous. If the entire population had known there was an industrial genocide going on, it would have been much more difficult for him to maintain his power.
I don't know if you're including me in "people" or not but no. I'm sure the entire population did not know exactly what was going on. Which is irrelevant to me because they voted for and supported all of the things that allowed him to do what he did. IOW, they knowingly and willingly ceded the vast majority of the power to the government without giving any thought to what the government might do with said power. Which when you do that, it's basically like walking up to a stranger, handing him a knife and turning your back on him. Would you do that? Most people wouldn't.

So the point is this. When a population makes a long series of choices that literally gives their government the power to do absolutely anything it wants to do, they should understand what they're doing and they can still be blamed for being ignorant to it when it all goes to hell in a handbasket.

So when I say "they allowed him to convince them to go along with him doing what he did" this is what I mean. They just put him in the driver's seat and said "Have fun, dude". And then they went back to sleep until reality woke them up.

And, for the record, humanity still hasn't learned that lesson. Obviously.

/WYSD
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post #35 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 11:50 PM
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Hitler doesn't really surprise me, and I don't think of him as an exception, honestly.

I think people do whatever generally works. You can morally justify practically anything, given the right circumstance. And IMO, people generally have a poor understanding of their own moral limits. (Meaning: they think they're following moral codes, while in truth their actions are governed by social and psychological forces that are not consistent by their very nature).

Excessive cruelty towards a threatening outgroup is easy to justify. If it ends up being beneficial to the ingroup, it's necessary evil. If it backfires or doesn't work for whatever reason, we construct a narrative of repentance and past immorality.

I'm not saying people don't have empathy. They do of course, it's just finite empathy. You can actually think of vilification and dehumanization as kind of empathy towards the ingroup (If I don't hurt the "others", they will hurt the people I love. It's self-defense). Or even as a kind of empathy towards humanity in general ("necessary evil, for the greater good, since my group is objectively better").

Do I think everyone is like that? Well, practically, yes. I think personality traits matter when it comes to how the ingroup/outgroup is defined, and also in how they adjust to sudden societal change, and also how willing they are to deviate from most people's definitions.

This is going to sound more nihilistic than all the above, but I'm not really surprised by the subset of people acting "morally" at times when excessive cruelty towards one group suddenly becomes more acceptable. Even at their own detriment.

By "not surprised" I mean I don't think this disproves anything I said. These aren't exceptions to the rule. They also follow the rule. They're just slower to respond to sudden changes in other people's ingroup/outgroup divide.

If cruelty to an outgroup has a consistent huge advantage over time, the moral codes will evolve to adapt to that change. And the people who initially resisted the othering fully (or cruelty in general) will either come to terms with its necessity or their generation will just die off and new generations will be brought up with the new ingroup/outgroup divide, and the new definitions of right and wrong and what is excessive cruelty and what is just difficult things that need to be done. Maybe some exceptions will remain, but I don't think they could have a significant effect on society as a whole. Most people would just find a compromise between their feelings and societal attitudes.

History in general makes little sense to me if I don't make these assumptions about human nature. Of course, we've not morally regressed the way I'm describing in modern history, but I think that's only because it's become less costly (maybe even beneficial) to be empathetic towards a greater number of people than it was in pre-modern times. It isn't because of any newly discovered deeply philosophical truth about the world. All the truths (a.k.a the moral justifications) are IMHO post-hoc rationalizations of a process we don't even understand that well.

I'm pretty sure modern moral codes won't survive a collapse of civilization, which means that moral codes should also respond to the degree of harshness of the external reality (both physical and social). They cannot transcend it indefinitely.

The only interesting aspect of Nazi morality in my opinion is that it wasn't based on a realistic understanding of the world. Which is why it's easy for us to see them as evil. The 'harshness' they perceived wasn't reflective of an actual threat. (which would also explain why most people tend to be 'more understanding' of what would be considered atrocities today in ancient times; the 'harshness' of the situation is sort of appreciated). But if this is the case, then it's Nazi paranoia that scares people and not Nazi cruelty itself.

---

Also, needless to say, the way I understand morality in general is not very common. (And the queerness of moral arguments is a huge reason why I don't think a moral code can survive its utility. Moral laws that do not serve a practical or emotional purpose will die out, because there are no moral truths 'out there'. All we have really is our emotional gut reactions and our desire for a fair amount of consistency and simplicity in terms of how we conceptualize justice).

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post #36 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 05:46 AM
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Do I think everyone is like that? Well, practically, yes. I think personality traits matter when it comes to how the ingroup/outgroup is defined, and also in how they adjust to sudden societal change, and also how willing they are to deviate from most people's definitions.

This is going to sound more nihilistic than all the above, but I'm not really surprised by the subset of people acting "morally" at times when excessive cruelty towards one group suddenly becomes more acceptable. Even at their own detriment.

By "not surprised" I mean I don't think this disproves anything I said. These aren't exceptions to the rule. They also follow the rule. They're just slower to respond to sudden changes in other people's ingroup/outgroup divide.
Oh depending on what you mean many people often just have different outgroups that aren't acknowledged as outgroups. The outgroup for many white people is other white people. The outgroups for most of the LGBT+ community are other people in the same community. Conservative white people hate conservative Islamic people, when you look into it, they overlap in a lot of their ideals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcis...ll_differences

In order for people to move in a direction they have to be part of the in-group that encourages certain ideas in the first place. I think some people (most perhaps,) will never become part of any one group agenda, but you don't really need everyone to you just need enough numbers or enough people who don't care what happens no matter what.

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If you don't initiate your young men into the tribe, they will burn down the village


Holy water cannot help you now
A thousand armies couldn't keep me out
I don't want your money
I don't want your crown
See, I've come to burn your kingdom down


But that's more how it starts, after a certain group have control people will do stuff purely out of fear as well even if they don't agree.
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post #37 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 07:45 AM
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It's cyclical because a lot of the themes repeat themselves because personality traits don't change that much and so neither do the sides. Jewish people tend to be targeted because they're usually over-represented in positions of power and cultural influence due probably to their higher group intelligence, and people need someone to place at the top of the pyramid when it comes to assigning blame. Some people fixate on race more than others though.

Fascism specifically seems to happen when a group of people decide society is too weak/feminised and simultaneously feel threatened by external tribes, they become hypersensitive to signs that people don't identify with the nation. Others feed into it by becoming very nihilistic and misanthropic (really this applies to any transformative force.) Also there's a strong push for social anti-egalitarianism and purity and a kind of ideal superman. Fascism puts the nation above the individual though so it attracts a different set of people than for those who like individual competition. (eg: Objectivists/libertarians/LaVeyan Satanists. Who would probably see it as quite weak if anything. I think Evola skirted that line a bit.) The more in favour of individual competition someone is, the less they'll like fascism. Even if they agree with some of the surrounding points (which a larger group do.)

Damn I'm going to have to split this in two.

Savitri Devi:













^ I get strong autism vibes from this one. Interesting to think about psychologically she was basically like IRL Poison Ivy lols. (I mean there are some very important differences too but you know what I mean.)

Julius Evola:













^ he's a lot more popular now.



Benito Mussolini



Anti-egalitarianism, I couldn't imagine anything further from the truth. Both men and women are equally welcome to die or slave away for the God Emperor. I've been listening to a lot of 40k warhammer lore podcasts lately, I think you'd find them interesting. The civilizations essentially take the philosophies marxism/fascism to their fullest dystopian extent.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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post #38 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 09:55 AM
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What scares me about Hitler is if I had been raised in that society would I, too, have followed the crowd in either supporting him or turning a blind eye? That thought haunts me.

...you gotta keep the goal in mind, develop tunnel vision to a certain extent. it's hard, and it's not for everyone.

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Anti-egalitarianism, I couldn't imagine anything further from the truth. Both men and women are equally welcome to die or slave away for the God Emperor. I've been listening to a lot of 40k warhammer lore podcasts lately, I think you'd find them interesting. The civilizations essentially take the philosophies marxism/fascism to their fullest dystopian extent.
Yeah I'm not that familiar with 40k I know some basic stuff, but fictional lore is often interesting in that it's often slightly altered versions of real world struggles/fights.

edit: There are a lot of instincts getting mixed together here but I think the purity thing/superman thing in fascism is more interesting. Things must be kept separate and unmixed, no weakness, everyone must devote their lives to the creation of the ultimate superdaddy. Even Hitler wasn't him but don't worry folks, he's coming. We'll build him.

People don't need to use people to build God now (in the same sense as then,) when they have tech/robo babies though.

Quote:
War is to man what maternity is to a woman. From a philosophical and doctrinal viewpoint, I do not believe in perpetual peace.
Hmm. Probably not a coincidence. I suppose it goes along with the idea that war drives technological progress.

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Emperor_of_Mankind

Quote:
The Emperor of Mankind is the immortal Perpetual who serves as the ruling monarch of the Imperium of Man, and is described by the Imperial Ecclesiarchy and the Imperial Cult as the Father, Guardian and God of humanity. The Chaos Gods and the daemons of the Warp refer to Him as "the Anathema" for He is the greatest embodiment of universal Order in the galaxy today. He has sat immobile, his body slowly crumbling, within the Golden Throne of Terra for over 10,000 standard years. Although once a living man, His shattered, decaying body can no longer support life, and it is kept intact only by the cybernetic mechanisms of the Golden Throne and a potent mind itself sustained by the daily sacrifice of thousands of lives.
Oh yeah that sounds about right haha.

I like the dark eldar aesthetically, I tend to gravitate to the elf-like races in every universe. They're usually *******s though lol. Although actually my brother once compared me to this because of my clumsyness and lack of apparent order in how I do things:

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Psyker
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