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post #21 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-18-2020, 05:43 AM
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I guess you could be particularly likely to develop a phobic response to stuff and then your mind attempts to control that creating the OCD thing instead of just being scared? Also constant stress probably doesn't help with that.
Yeah, I think phobias blend into OCD rituals very easily. I'm afraid of spiders, so I check the ceiling of every room before I enter it to see if there are spiders that might drop down on top of me. If I were only afraid of spiders when I saw them, that would be a phobia; but if I'm constantly checking, I think that's just like checking to see if you've turned off the stove or locked the door. Not going camping because you're afraid of bears is a phobia; not walking at night in the city because of them seems like OCD.

And yeah, my OCD gets worse the more stress I'm under.

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I guess I've had occasional what if thoughts about people possibly being able to read my mind but that type of thought is pretty rare and I don't find it difficult to dismiss it's sort of like when you sometimes think about breathing and then it gets hard to do that, but that thought doesn't stick around too long for most people.
I'm sure everyone has "crazy" thoughts at times. It's when you start working around them that you have a problem. At that point they have a kind of hold over you. Not walking at night because bears, not sleeping at night because aliens, checking every room for spiders, not looking at balconies because jumpers, holding onto chairs because falling up to the ceiling ... that sounds like OCD with poor insight & psychotic features. At least when I'm in the grip of them. And yet I'm so used to living this way it doesn't register as anything like "psychosis". I know they're crazy things to worry about but at the same time I can't deal with the anxiety if I don't give in to them. I know anyone could have thoughts like these from time to time, but it wouldn't affect how they live. They'd just be passing thoughts that they forget about.

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I think I used to get a lot more random fears though. Like at one point when I was younger I would occasionally worry about the possibility of Jupiter crashing into Earth because I watched some documentary and the planet freaked me out, then I was also worried about nuclear explosions at one point (but neither of these things have really bothered me for a long while.) But still wasn't that that persistent/obsessive I don't think.
I've never heard of anyone being afraid of Jupiter. We had to do nuclear drills in public school when I was a kid, so I was pretty scared of nuclear war back then. I'm really glad I never went to church, because I could imagine being terrified of hell. I worried a bit about asteroids hitting the Earth. And I worried about the world ending at NYE 2000. But I never got obsessed with that stuff. I've never been into conspiracy theories, either. My paranoia/phobias have all been about things that directly involve me.

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There was another time when I was 8 or 9 I went to visit the Millennium dome (which only existed a short time before I think they turned it into some venue.) And there was a giant Human body that you went into with a giant beating heart (among other things,) I got really scared by that and had to leave, and that took me a while to get over I was sort of traumatised by that for a couple of weeks and couldn't eat properly. I think the circularity system of Human bodies also sort of freaked me out after that for a while. I think there were probably some other experiences too that sort of added to it though. I mean I was also kind of weirded out by this one level in the video game Medieval where there's this stain glass demon with a heart. Though I also really liked that game.
That sounds kind of cool, actually. Fantastic Voyage was one of my favorite movies when I was a kid. I won't link the trailer, in case it freaks you out, but basically they shrink people down and travel through a human body.

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Some of my other phobic reactions only apply to things when they're new and last until I get used to them. Like I'm often freaked out by new gas ovens/hobs but then after I use them many times that reduces to almost nothing. I had that with matches too.
I've never used a gas stove and I'm quite sure I never want to.

Even if I didn't have vertigo, I don't think I could drive because of my OCD. Anything that can be turned into a weapon is a major trigger for me. Like when we had to start giving my one cat injections for his diabetes. I couldn't do it because I couldn't trust myself with the needle. My ex had to give all the injections. I tried to give him a shot once and fainted. But I don't have a problem with people giving me needles. I buy my veggies chopped, if I can, because I can't trust myself with a sharp knife. It's like I think I'm going to turn into Bullseye and start going on a killing spree or something. It's ludicrous but I can't be sure it won't happen.

 


^ This image is especially funny to me because I once threw a chopstick at my friend and it literally went right up his nostril.


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I was reading this recently.

(they were previously researching psilocybin for depression.)

I'm not sure why they think this would work because it's my general impression reading about the drug before that your mental state effects the trip itself and you also have to be able to mentally let go. It seems like the results would be very unpredictable too, but it would be interesting to hear more about that.
I'm terrified of psychotropic drugs. "Reality not scary enough for you? Why not try THE DEVIL'S MUSHROOMS, for that authentic hellworld experience!" I honestly can't think of anything more terrifying than my brain on drugs. I'm afraid to even take SSRIs because I'm afraid I'm going to have a psychotic episode and hurt someone. I mean, sure, it's rare, but I seem to specialize in exceptional circumstances.

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Ah, I find Silent Hill pretty fascinating for some reason, but I wouldn't want to live there. Have you tried writing horror fiction?
When I was teaching myself game design, my "dream game" was an open-world, sandbox Silent Hill style game. Like, what's wrong with my brain? "You know what would be fun? Living in virtual hell." I honestly don't know what my problem is some days. And yes, I have written some horror. I have three short horror stories published, and a bunch of partially written novels.

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I think I cry about some things sometimes. But it's more like I just start thinking about certain things and then tear up or something, usually while lying in bed. I've never done that as a reaction to my body in the shower. I usually ignore it and then if I have a negative reaction it's more like some form of fear I guess.
I cry all the time watching movies/shows. But I usually cry when people are being nice to each other, like when they've been fighting and then they make up. It just makes me so happy. I'm the kind of person who cries at weddings. I don't usually cry when I watch stuff that is merely sad, or when I'm merely sad about my life. The only times I have cried have been about really big deals. Like, I cried a lot when my ex left me. But I've never cried just because my life is terrible.

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That's interesting. I guess if you've always had that it's unlikely to be heavily based on a single person.
Yeah, well, I'm not sure of anything anymore. Like, maybe I'm misremembering how I thought about myself when I was a lot younger. Maybe at some point the person I picture myself as changed but it happened so long ago I don't remember. I honestly couldn't tell you. I no longer trust my brain about anything.

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post #22 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-18-2020, 08:04 AM
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I'm sure everyone has "crazy" thoughts at times. It's when you start working around them that you have a problem. At that point they have a kind of hold over you. Not walking at night because bears, not sleeping at night because aliens, checking every room for spiders, not looking at balconies because jumpers, holding onto chairs because falling up to the ceiling ... that sounds like OCD with poor insight & psychotic features.
Yeah that sounds difficult to manage.

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I've never heard of anyone being afraid of Jupiter. We had to do nuclear drills in public school when I was a kid, so I was pretty scared of nuclear war back then. I'm really glad I never went to church, because I could imagine being terrified of hell. I worried a bit about asteroids hitting the Earth. And I worried about the world ending at NYE 2000. But I never got obsessed with that stuff. I've never been into conspiracy theories, either. My paranoia/phobias have all been about things that directly involve me.
Yeah I've worried on/off about asteroids but not very much. I used to be a Christian but I wasn't really scared of hell, I think I found some old medieval art work of hell pretty interesting.

I think most of my fears involve me, there are some things that bother me that involve other people though, but I wouldn't say it's really a phobic reaction in those cases. It seems subtly different anyway I dunno (like horror instead of fear maybe.) I accidentally stumbled on a really disturbing reddit story yesterday that I'm probably going to think about on/off for a while because it was one of the worst things I've ever read. I can't really talk about that specific example in detail I don't think, but basically trigger warning for rape:

 
this woman posted about how her husband was raped while on ecstasy (in a kind of force femme way,) and he kept having romantic/sexual fantasies about the rapist and it radically altered his sexuality (possibly in part because of the drug,) she also went into a lot of disturbing details prompting someone to say 'this sounds like a rape fantasy story I've read on some erotica site' but that comment got deleted and the idea of someone pretending that was real is even worse because it was a serious subreddit (then in the comments other people shared similar stories of their partners or themselves and some of those were really disturbing, especially this one specific detail I won't say. I also have very violent/aggressive reactions to certain male subcultures online who argue rape is fine, for reasons like this.)


But I find a lot of similar stuff horrifying in a milder way often like lobotomies, variant cjd/prion diseases, hrt changing people's sexuality, this one fanfic I read a year ago or something where someone abandoned someone they loved to die because they were being controlled by something (which was also the worst fanfic I'd read for a while and wouldn't have done if I'd known how it was going to go,) anything external effecting someone's sense of self I guess. Which is similar to the conspiracy theorists fears which seem to stem from being controlled by external forces (especially via forms of mind control,) though certain narratives seem more popular.

I guess there's also a feeling of fascination with some things though (started in early childhood,) so I think the more negative emotions only happen if it's treated very seriously and not just a cartoonish thing. I think some things also make me angry, which is very different to my fear response with most phobias where it's just fear. I also think the anger makes me feel better. (Also could be why I sexualise vaguely similar themes I dunno. I think a lot of fetishes are based on phobias. It also reminds me of a paper I read about this Japanese author Mari Mori who wrote homosexual romance stories and they connected this to her dad's fear of being raped that he wrote about in a book, but I guess that gets pretty Freudian.)

 
Mori Mari wrote that she always felt that her father was too good for this earth. There was something in his goodness that made him vulnerable, and she felt it her duty to protect him. In 1960 she wrote, “Once a nightmare disturbed me and woke me in a cold sweat; it was about some men approaching my father working at his desk and attacking him from behind.”⁴⁴ Any reader of Mori Ōgai (including most likely Mari herself) would be reminded by her dream of a passage in his 1909 novel Vita Sexualis. The protagonist of this ironically autobiographical novel (a text that is so sex-phobic that one of my students once called it Vita Asexualis) is terrified of homosexuals and takes a dagger with him to bed in his boarding school to defend himself against the older students who he believes are out to rape him.⁴⁵ In Mori Mari’s stories and the yaoi works they spawned, homosexuality may not be out and proud, but it is not nearly as scary and violent as it was in her father’s novel. Mari will take the place of that dagger to defend her father against attacks from the rear, but she will do so by making him queer. In the context of modern Japanese literature, where Ōgai is a towering masculine presence, this is no mean feat.


I think the only reason I don't get into common conspiracies as such is I usually identify more with the evil side of their conspiracies when I hear them talking about stuff (at least on some level) so it feels like they're talking about me. There's a lot of Abrahamic themes, and aliens and gender/sexuality stuff they fixate on so.

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That sounds kind of cool, actually. Fantastic Voyage was one of my favorite movies when I was a kid. I won't link the trailer, in case it freaks you out, but basically they shrink people down and travel through a human body.
I don't think that film would bother me now, but yeah it just bothered me as a child because of the weird experience. I think it probably would be interesting as an adult.

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I've never used a gas stove and I'm quite sure I never want to.
Ah they're really common here, I've only lived in one place with an electric one. What I really don't like is when certain parts stop working (which had happened in one flat I was staying in I think, and also this really old oven we had here until a couple of years ago, we have a new one now but it's also gas.) So then I had to turn the gas on and stick a lighter inside to light it (similar thing with the stove had to be lit externally,) but then sometimes had to use matches when the lighter runs out. but I had to get used to doing that or I couldn't cook food. At least the oven sounded creepy though like the door lifting up and down, I recorded a bunch of sounds from it and my friend described it as sounding like metallic death lol.

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Even if I didn't have vertigo, I don't think I could drive because of my OCD. Anything that can be turned into a weapon is a major trigger for me.
Yeah I guess that must be pretty limiting.

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^ This image is especially funny to me because I once threw a chopstick at my friend and it literally went right up his nostril.
lol that's kind of amazing.

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I'm terrified of psychotropic drugs. "Reality not scary enough for you? Why not try THE DEVIL'S MUSHROOMS, for that authentic hellworld experience!" I honestly can't think of anything more terrifying than my brain on drugs. I'm afraid to even take SSRIs because I'm afraid I'm going to have a psychotic episode and hurt someone. I mean, sure, it's rare, but I seem to specialize in exceptional circumstances.
Yeah I read about that with ssris. I weirdly have a lower opinion of ssris than hallucinogenic drugs lol. I guess because it seems like there are some positives with hallucinogenic drugs if you don't have a bad trip, but ssris seem to kill your sex drive (sometimes long term,) and cause all kinds of issues especially if you take them as a teenager. I guess they help some people though.

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When I was teaching myself game design, my "dream game" was an open-world, sandbox Silent Hill style game. Like, what's wrong with my brain? "You know what would be fun? Living in virtual hell." I honestly don't know what my problem is some days. And yes, I have written some horror. I have three short horror stories published, and a bunch of partially written novels.
Well some people really like horror games though. I haven't really played any except Amnesia, I finished the demo and then bought the game but I couldn't finish lol. It's better if you have weapons which you don't in that game. I think I came up with an idea for a horror game once years ago or at least something with horror themes, but I've forgotten it now.

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I cry all the time watching movies/shows. But I usually cry when people are being nice to each other, like when they've been fighting and then they make up. It just makes me so happy. I'm the kind of person who cries at weddings. I don't usually cry when I watch stuff that is merely sad, or when I'm merely sad about my life. The only times I have cried have been about really big deals. Like, I cried a lot when my ex left me. But I've never cried just because my life is terrible.
I think I've cried about happy stuff on TV before, or while listening to certain music but probably not very often, and not really proper crying. I've cried about crushes before.

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I no longer trust my brain about anything.
Well I think most people's brains tend to be unreliable narrators (with all the false memories and stuff.) So I guess you can only go off what you think now. Probably best not to think about that too much really.

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post #23 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-18-2020, 09:37 AM
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I have more of a long-form OCD. It's not like "stereotypical" OCD in that I have no cleanliness issues but it's more doing certain things in an official and "correct" way so that other things I do in that period of time are "official". It's even hard for me to explain, so I won't attempt it. My issues with this have changed a lot over the years; some things have gotten more "restrictive" while others have lessened. I've had a few things in the past few years which weren't done "properly" and I think I'm still in a bit of a depressed state because of them, meaning that if I had done them right and been more careful, I think I'd be in a better spot. I'm also an extreme procrastinator, so imagine having to do certain things to satisfy your "rules" but being so lazy that you don't do them. I have sort of an OCD "nexus" of things I've set up for myself to do this weekend, and I have anxiety over things going right. I've already fouled up a few things (including just a few minutes ago) and am trying not to let it get me down.
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post #24 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-20-2020, 01:09 AM
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Yeah I've worried on/off about asteroids but not very much. I used to be a Christian but I wasn't really scared of hell, I think I found some old medieval art work of hell pretty interesting.
I like reading transcripts from the witch trials. Some of the craziest stuff you'll ever read. I was raised atheist, but I find a lot of religious stuff really interesting and have read quite a bit about different religions.

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I think most of my fears involve me, there are some things that bother me that involve other people though, but I wouldn't say it's really a phobic reaction in those cases. It seems subtly different anyway I dunno (like horror instead of fear maybe.) I accidentally stumbled on a really disturbing reddit story yesterday that I'm probably going to think about on/off for a while because it was one of the worst things I've ever read.
I find anything related to torture really horrifying, including any kind of forced conversion (religious, political, etc.). I can't believe people voluntarily watch videos about beheadings and stuff. Trying to force people to think or feel certain kinds of things is just evil. Hence my issue with conversion therapy.

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But I find a lot of similar stuff horrifying in a milder way often like lobotomies, variant cjd/prion diseases, hrt changing people's sexuality, this one fanfic I read a year ago or something where someone abandoned someone they loved to die because they were being controlled by something (which was also the worst fanfic I'd read for a while and wouldn't have done if I'd known how it was going to go,) anything external effecting someone's sense of self I guess. Which is similar to the conspiracy theorists fears which seem to stem from being controlled by external forces (especially via forms of mind control,) though certain narratives seem more popular.

...

I think the only reason I don't get into common conspiracies as such is I usually identify more with the evil side of their conspiracies when I hear them talking about stuff (at least on some level) so it feels like they're talking about me. There's a lot of Abrahamic themes, and aliens and gender/sexuality stuff they fixate on so.
A couple summers ago I read a ton about prion diseases. I was half-convinced I had one that made it impossible to sleep. I was going entire nights without being able to sleep at all and with my head constantly humming and buzzing like it was some kind of big transformer. I'm not really bothered by sexuality changing, but maybe because I'm bi.

I think I have trouble believing conspiracy theories because I feel like everyone is irrational; a conspiracy would require massive coordinated efforts and I just don't feel like people are capable of sustaining anything like that for any length of time. Small-scale conspiracies yes, but not Illuminati level stuff. It just seems too improbable.

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I guess there's also a feeling of fascination with some things though (started in early childhood,) so I think the more negative emotions only happen if it's treated very seriously and not just a cartoonish thing. I think some things also make me angry, which is very different to my fear response with most phobias where it's just fear. I also think the anger makes me feel better. (Also could be why I sexualise vaguely similar themes I dunno. I think a lot of fetishes are based on phobias. It also reminds me of a paper I read about this Japanese author Mari Mori who wrote homosexual romance stories and they connected this to her dad's fear of being raped that he wrote about in a book, but I guess that gets pretty Freudian.)
I think fetishes and phobias are very similar and probably arise in similar ways. Can you elaborate on "fetishes are based on phobias"? You mean a coping mechanism of some sort?

The Mori Mari stuff is interesting.

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Ah they're really common here, I've only lived in one place with an electric one. What I really don't like is when certain parts stop working (which had happened in one flat I was staying in I think, and also this really old oven we had here until a couple of years ago, we have a new one now but it's also gas.) So then I had to turn the gas on and stick a lighter inside to light it (similar thing with the stove had to be lit externally,) but then sometimes had to use matches when the lighter runs out. but I had to get used to doing that or I couldn't cook food. At least the oven sounded creepy though like the door lifting up and down, I recorded a bunch of sounds from it and my friend described it as sounding like metallic death lol.
I have a gas water heater, but I'm afraid to touch it. It's a rental, so if there's a problem, I just call the company and let them deal with it. I'm sure if I had to use one to cook my food I'd get used to it, but I probably wouldn't like it as much as electric. I have enough issues with getting urges to stick my hands on hot elements or into boiling pots of water. I don't need to add fire into the mix.

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Yeah I read about that with ssris. I weirdly have a lower opinion of ssris than hallucinogenic drugs lol. I guess because it seems like there are some positives with hallucinogenic drugs if you don't have a bad trip, but ssris seem to kill your sex drive (sometimes long term,) and cause all kinds of issues especially if you take them as a teenager. I guess they help some people though.
Yeah, I don't want the negative side-effects, either. One they don't often mention are more vivid and disturbing dreams. Like, no thanks. I'm already competing at the Olympic level in that department. Or migraines, which I already get. It just doesn't seem worth it.

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Well some people really like horror games though. I haven't really played any except Amnesia, I finished the demo and then bought the game but I couldn't finish lol. It's better if you have weapons which you don't in that game. I think I came up with an idea for a horror game once years ago or at least something with horror themes, but I've forgotten it now.
Yeah, I really like horror games. Not that I've really played a lot of games. Silent Hill, Resident Evil, Dead Island, Amnesia, some older stuff, like Haunting Ground and Rule of Rose. I wish I had more time for games.

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Well I think most people's brains tend to be unreliable narrators (with all the false memories and stuff.) So I guess you can only go off what you think now. Probably best not to think about that too much really.
The BIB just struck me as funny in an OCD thread. I mean, I agree, I just wish it were that simple.

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post #25 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-20-2020, 01:20 AM
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I have more of a long-form OCD. It's not like "stereotypical" OCD in that I have no cleanliness issues but it's more doing certain things in an official and "correct" way so that other things I do in that period of time are "official". It's even hard for me to explain, so I won't attempt it. My issues with this have changed a lot over the years; some things have gotten more "restrictive" while others have lessened. I've had a few things in the past few years which weren't done "properly" and I think I'm still in a bit of a depressed state because of them, meaning that if I had done them right and been more careful, I think I'd be in a better spot. I'm also an extreme procrastinator, so imagine having to do certain things to satisfy your "rules" but being so lazy that you don't do them. I have sort of an OCD "nexus" of things I've set up for myself to do this weekend, and I have anxiety over things going right. I've already fouled up a few things (including just a few minutes ago) and am trying not to let it get me down.
I have similar hang-ups. Like, when I read a book, I have to read every page of the book, with the exception of things like indexes or publication data. I have to read the acknowledgements, every footnote, etc., otherwise I can't say I read it. When you read as much as I do, that becomes very time-consuming. The thought of skimming just fills me with horror. I. Read. Every. Word.

I also record everything I've read/watched/played on lists. I have lists of every book I've read, every movie I've watched, every game I've played, etc. Partly that's because I have a really bad memory so I can't always remember if I've read/watched something already and I don't like rereading/rewatching things because I experience a lot of time pressure. Partly because I have to reassure myself that I've actually done something with my time. I'm also a terrible procrastinator.

I'm also a low-key hoarder. Not a "dead cat under the garbage" level hoarder, but "have trouble getting around my room" level hoarder. My OCD is definitely not about organization or cleanliness. I wish it was sometimes.

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post #26 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-20-2020, 10:09 AM
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I like reading transcripts from the witch trials. Some of the craziest stuff you'll ever read. I was raised atheist, but I find a lot of religious stuff really interesting and have read quite a bit about different religions.
I haven't really read much about that (besides what I learnt in school, and reading about Giles Corey more recently because some musician took his name.) I can imagine it would be pretty crazy though.

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A couple summers ago I read a ton about prion diseases. I was half-convinced I had one that made it impossible to sleep. I was going entire nights without being able to sleep at all and with my head constantly humming and buzzing like it was some kind of big transformer. I'm not really bothered by sexuality changing, but maybe because I'm bi.

I think I have trouble believing conspiracy theories because I feel like everyone is irrational; a conspiracy would require massive coordinated efforts and I just don't feel like people are capable of sustaining anything like that for any length of time. Small-scale conspiracies yes, but not Illuminati level stuff. It just seems too improbable.
Oh no, yeah I read about that one before, prion diseases are pretty scary.

Yeah I don't know what my sexuality is (a mess lol,) I think just the idea of it changing bothers me (which is ironic because I'd probably be better off with a different one,) because I don't like change that's random or out of my control (I also don't like the idea of being 'normalised,' because I've had people online suggest I should be and also read lots of disgusting stuff at this point,) but I'm also bothered by other people's sexuality changing sometimes but that's usually for completely different reasons and I'm not even sure if it really 'changes.' So much as they just gain awareness and/or aren't settling anymore. But some people describe it that way as changing. If they're actually bi that doesn't bother me, but that's a different thing.

Yeah I'm not sure. I think since religions can last a really long time it's possible, but I mostly don't think the ones they've come up with are likely.

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I think fetishes and phobias are very similar and probably arise in similar ways. Can you elaborate on "fetishes are based on phobias"? You mean a coping mechanism of some sort?

The Mori Mari stuff is interesting.
Yeah I was thinking as a sort of coping mechanism a bit like how some people sexualise trauma, but also could just be that there's an overlap in the brain between fear and sexual arousal so it becomes sexualised that way. I just notice fetishes are often things that other people have phobias about.

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I have a gas water heater, but I'm afraid to touch it. It's a rental, so if there's a problem, I just call the company and let them deal with it. I'm sure if I had to use one to cook my food I'd get used to it, but I probably wouldn't like it as much as electric. I have enough issues with getting urges to stick my hands on hot elements or into boiling pots of water. I don't need to add fire into the mix.
Yeah that would be really difficult with severe OCD.

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Yeah, I don't want the negative side-effects, either. One they don't often mention are more vivid and disturbing dreams. Like, no thanks. I'm already competing at the Olympic level in that department. Or migraines, which I already get. It just doesn't seem worth it.
Ah I didn't realise that was a side effect, yeah I can see why you'd want to avoid that. I basically never remember my dreams now which is annoying because some of them have been pretty cool. Sometimes scary things happen but they don't usually last long or I reach a certain level of fear and then either something funny happens or I change whatever is scaring me (or I come back from the dead after getting shot as a sort of zombie and start eating someone etc.)

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The BIB just struck me as funny in an OCD thread. I mean, I agree, I just wish it were that simple.
lol yeah I guess that was pretty ironic. :P

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post #27 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-20-2020, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by truant View Post
I have similar hang-ups. Like, when I read a book, I have to read every page of the book, with the exception of things like indexes or publication data. I have to read the acknowledgements, every footnote, etc., otherwise I can't say I read it. When you read as much as I do, that becomes very time-consuming. The thought of skimming just fills me with horror. I. Read. Every. Word.

I also record everything I've read/watched/played on lists. I have lists of every book I've read, every movie I've watched, every game I've played, etc. Partly that's because I have a really bad memory so I can't always remember if I've read/watched something already and I don't like rereading/rewatching things because I experience a lot of time pressure. Partly because I have to reassure myself that I've actually done something with my time. I'm also a terrible procrastinator.

I'm also a low-key hoarder. Not a "dead cat under the garbage" level hoarder, but "have trouble getting around my room" level hoarder. My OCD is definitely not about organization or cleanliness. I wish it was sometimes.
I actually have issues with all three of those but wouldn't consider myself a "hoarder" either. I keep things related to things which are important, but I have no issue throwing things out. I'm just very messy.

The reading, though - I actually do read indices and publication data. I read every word in the book, including the author and book name and page number on every page. However, I only do it in specific circumstances. If it's a book I bought new or a book that I'm putting more "importance" on, I will do that level of detail. If it's just a reprint or something I'm not too concerned about, I won't go into that detail. If I'm just skimming a newspaper or magazine or something online, I don't even "read" it, just skim it, and have no issue with that.

Back when these issues started for me in the early '90s, I had a thing where I'd need to look at punctuation. I still have that sometimes, but not to the same extent. I will make myself recognize punctuation, including periods, only on some sentences. Also back when it started, chapter names and whatever little decorative flourish was on the chapter or part name really hung me up. I used to read and re-read those pages, although I don't have that issue today. So this is something that has changed for me over the years.
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post #28 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-22-2020, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Persephone The Dread View Post
Yeah I don't know what my sexuality is (a mess lol,) I think just the idea of it changing bothers me (which is ironic because I'd probably be better off with a different one,) because I don't like change that's random or out of my control (I also don't like the idea of being 'normalised,' because I've had people online suggest I should be and also read lots of disgusting stuff at this point,)
Well, your identity is what you know about yourself (not in a factual sense, but an experiential sense, where you know what it is like to be you even if you can't explain that experience). If that were to suddenly drastically change, you would no longer be yourself. You can't really identify with a version of yourself that falls outside your range of experience of yourself, so that version of you is not "you". If you became that person, the person you are now would "die". So that kind of change should bother you. And if your impression of "normal" sexuality is that it's a degrading experience, then being normalized is not going to appeal to you.

This seems to be more or less the problem that many trans people experience. If I cannot imagine a future for myself in which I am a man (and I can't in any meaningful sense; there's just a kind of blank void, or some very hazy, fragmentary images which hold no appeal for me whatsoever) then how am I supposed to choose that kind of existence for myself? I can't. The thought of having to choose it is horrifying. Which is why many trans people develop this schizoid split, where they live in a sort of fantasy world internally, picturing a future for themselves that they want, but go through the motions externally. Coming out of the closet heals that split. The future they've been imagining for themselves finally comes inline (as much as it can, which varies from person to person) with the future that they start to build for themselves externally. If you can't imagine a future for yourself in any form that would be remotely tolerable, very often the outcome is suicide. This is why you see high rates of suicide associated with trans people who are rejected by their families/communities.

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but I'm also bothered by other people's sexuality changing sometimes but that's usually for completely different reasons and I'm not even sure if it really 'changes.' So much as they just gain awareness and/or aren't settling anymore. But some people describe it that way as changing. If they're actually bi that doesn't bother me, but that's a different thing.
Maybe it's because you're afraid it will happen to you? Fear by identification? I wouldn't want to become a pedophile, but I don't have any reason to fear it will happen, either. If HRT made some people pedophiles, I would probably be afraid of that. I'm not really afraid of only being attracted to men, or only to women, because I'm already attracted to both. I like being attracted to both, but I don't find the thought of being restricted to one disgusting.

Many people with OCD do have a fear that their sexuality will change, though. So I wonder if this isn't related to OCD somehow, like HOCD, trans OCD, etc.

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Yeah I'm not sure. I think since religions can last a really long time it's possible, but I mostly don't think the ones they've come up with are likely.
How many kinds of Christianity are there, though? The church can't even get people to agree on what Jesus meant in his sermons. A conspiracy is like a glass that's been knocked off the table. It exists for a time, maybe years or even decades, but it inevitably shatters. Every person involved has their own ambitions and no two of those people agree on what those ambitions should be. I just don't find long-term global conspiracies very credible. At least, not on a scale that would involve the control of billions of people. Someone is going to upset the applecart. But maybe I'm wrong.

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Yeah I was thinking as a sort of coping mechanism a bit like how some people sexualise trauma, but also could just be that there's an overlap in the brain between fear and sexual arousal so it becomes sexualised that way. I just notice fetishes are often things that other people have phobias about.
I think a lot of it depends on the kind of neurological arousal you're experiencing at the time some kind of significant event happens. During a traumatic experience, like a car accident, your brain may take note of some random object in the environment and that random object can become a trigger for the emotions you felt at the time of the trauma. So, for example, seeing a bobblehead on a car dashboard might fill you with anxiety.

Sexual traumas are inherently sexual, so the incidents of the trauma may become associated with any kind of sexual arousal. It may be hard not to think about rape when you're aroused if you were raped. That doesn't happen because you want to think about rape, or because you're trying to master the trauma; you're not sexualizing the rape; the rape was sexual. It's what you do about those fantasies that can turn them into coping mechanisms. I don't think anyone is consciously thinking: "I know, I'll think about my rape the next time I'm turned on and maybe I can find some way to get over my trauma." They just can't avoid thinking about rape when they're turned on, just like I can't avoid flashbacks of my car accident when I see a bobblehead.

I think there are a lot of parallels between fetishes and phobias because only certain kinds of experiences create a lot of neurological excitement. Spiders create excitement for evolutionary reasons, but there probably aren't nearly as many people turned on by spiders as there are people afraid of spiders; there'd have to be something really unusual about that experience, or how that individual brain responds to certain kinds of stimuli. By contrast, breaking almost any kind of rule will create a more ambiguous kind of excitement; ambiguous because rules aren't evolved predispositions, but social constructs. And ambiguous neurological arousal lends itself to being repurposed. Which is probably why most "fetishes" (in the common sense of the term) involve rule violations of some sort: don't have sex in public, don't let your wife cheat on you, don't wear women's underwear, don't have sex with your sister. The specific fetishes will depend on temperament and life experiences, but a lot of the charge comes from the anxiety associated with being "naughty", getting caught, being publicly shamed, etc.

Idk, it's obviously very complex stuff. There aren't any easy to understand psychological phenomena.

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Ah I didn't realise that was a side effect, yeah I can see why you'd want to avoid that. I basically never remember my dreams now which is annoying because some of them have been pretty cool. Sometimes scary things happen but they don't usually last long or I reach a certain level of fear and then either something funny happens or I change whatever is scaring me (or I come back from the dead after getting shot as a sort of zombie and start eating someone etc.)
I remember dreams basically every night. If I want to, anyway. Usually more than one. I often just forget them because they're not worth remembering. I'm sort of ambivalent about it, honestly. On the one hand, a lot of my dreams are horrible and terrifying; on the other hand, they're often really cool, and they make my life feel a lot larger and more interesting than it is, lol. Like, IRL I'm a hermit who reads a lot of books, but when I'm asleep I'm often running for my life from cannibals or assassins or wild animals or something. It's pretty exciting stuff.

I do wish I could change my dreams while I'm having them, though. Just stop them if they get too scary, or turn whatever is scaring me into something that isn't scary. I've never experienced anything IRL that comes close to the kind of terror I experience in dreams. I spent years and years trying to learn lucid dreaming (and I know it's possible, because I've had a couple) but I've never been able to turn it into an actual skill.

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post #29 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-22-2020, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by IcedOver View Post
I actually have issues with all three of those but wouldn't consider myself a "hoarder" either. I keep things related to things which are important, but I have no issue throwing things out. I'm just very messy.

The reading, though - I actually do read indices and publication data. I read every word in the book, including the author and book name and page number on every page. However, I only do it in specific circumstances. If it's a book I bought new or a book that I'm putting more "importance" on, I will do that level of detail. If it's just a reprint or something I'm not too concerned about, I won't go into that detail. If I'm just skimming a newspaper or magazine or something online, I don't even "read" it, just skim it, and have no issue with that.

Back when these issues started for me in the early '90s, I had a thing where I'd need to look at punctuation. I still have that sometimes, but not to the same extent. I will make myself recognize punctuation, including periods, only on some sentences. Also back when it started, chapter names and whatever little decorative flourish was on the chapter or part name really hung me up. I used to read and re-read those pages, although I don't have that issue today. So this is something that has changed for me over the years.
I have a lot of trouble throwing out anything. Like, I keep old elastic bands, or pens that barely work, or loose screws from god-only-knows-what. I can get rid of something if it's well and truly broken, but I have a hard time getting rid of anything I can conceive of a use for. But I'm not as bad as my two youngest sisters. And I'm no worse than my brother. It's just something that runs in my family.

I skim with most of the stuff I read online. But if it's important for my research (like an academic paper) I won't. There are no unimportant books as far as my OCD is concerned; if I start it, I have to read it with the same degree of attention I give every book. Though I don't have that issue with punctuation. I do pay attention to it, because I also edit, so I like to see how other people punctuate their work, but I don't get hung up on consciously acknowledging every punctuation mark. I tend to only watch out for situations I'm hazy about, like hyphenation or ellipses or whatever.

I do get hung up on consciously acknowledging every word that I read. Which is probably why I never learned to read faster than I speak. I mentally sound out every word I read in a human voice. It makes me a very slow reader. I took one year of university and I couldn't keep up with the reading load because I couldn't get over that. I had to write exams about books I'd never even had a chance to read, even though I spent basically all my time doing schoolwork. I could never get a post-secondary diploma with my OCD.

Now that I think about it, my memory problems are probably also OCD-related. I feel like I don't "know" something unless I know it inside-out. When I was trying to teach myself programming, I couldn't just do the exercises and learn the commands; I had to understand how the commands themselves worked. So I kept going down and down all the way to machine code, hardware, etc. I didn't need that level of detail to program; I needed it to feel like I knew a concept well enough to move on to the next concept. So I never really got very much past "hello, world" programs even though I spent years working on it. I think my memory problems might be: "Do I really know this person's name? Do I really know my own phone number?" The doubt makes me uncertain. I can't just respond reflexively with the first thing that pops into my head, which is probably right most of the time for something like that.

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post #30 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-22-2020, 07:32 AM
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When Dan was initially diagnosed with OCD, he did indeed have good insight. He knew his obsessions and compulsions made no sense. But by the time he met with the psychiatrist mentioned earlier his OCD had gotten so severe that he had poor, or possibly even absent, insight. This is when the doctor used the term “borderline psychosis.” In some cases, OCD sufferers’ levels of insight can change quickly. For example, while calmly discussing a particular obsession and compulsion, those with OCD might acknowledge their thoughts and behaviors are unreasonable. But an hour later, when they are panic-stricken and in the middle of what they perceive as imminent danger, they might totally believe what they had previously described as nonsensical. This is the nature of obsessive-compulsive disorder.
I've experienced this myself, exactly. Most of the time, I do not believe that there are aliens abducting people. Or that those aliens are telepathic. Or that I can control reality just by thinking about it. But then at some point that's pretty much exactly what I believe: I believe that if I think about aliens they will come and abduct me. And there's no qualitative difference between these states. They both just feel like reality.

When I was lying awake at night listening to the bees in my ceiling, I felt sure that they must really "bee" there. (Har har.) I could hear them as clearly as I could hear the traffic on the highway. I thought there must have been tens of thousands of them. This went on for months and months. I was constantly climbing up on my chair to listen. Looking out the window. I went right up into the attic. During the day, I could tell myself I was just imagining things, but when I went to bed I no longer felt like I was imagining it. Reality itself just sort of shifted.

And when I get physical urges, I really don't believe I can stop myself from acting on them. Even though I've never acted on one, every time I get an urge I really believe I'm going to act on it. If it just felt like a bad thought, it wouldn't really be terrifying. It's the belief that I'm going to lose control that's scary. I think OCD is just a borderline psychotic state. It's the no man's land between "preoccupation" and "completely delusional". And yet antipsychotics make it worse.

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It is crucial to differentiate between OCD and a psychotic disorder, because drugs that are prescribed for psychosis (antipsychotics) have been known to induce and/or exacerbate symptoms of OCD. In addition, research has shown that these antipsychotics often do not help those with severe OCD. In Dan’s case, the antipsychotics he was prescribed did indeed exacerbate his OCD, in addition to causing a host of serious side-effects, both physical and mental.
I'm glad I got this figured out before I talked to anyone writing prescriptions!

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post #31 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-22-2020, 01:23 PM
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@truant sorry I had to remove most of your quotes because I really wanted to fit it into one post but with all the chat quotes it became way too long although it doesn't look it

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Well, your identity is what you know about yourself (not in a factual sense, but an experiential sense, where you know what it is like to be you even if you can't explain that experience).
Yeah that makes sense. I don't think a lot of things about me are fixed though, so it's easier to say what I don't like. I feel like many people are very controlling and want to gaslight you into being what they want if they detect ambiguity, so I'm very defensive.

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Maybe it's because you're afraid it will happen to you? Fear by identification?
I don't think I find the thought of being restricted to one disgusting, just limiting. This is kind of complicated though. I'm not sure if I can give enough context really in a limited number of quotes.

A few years ago I found the idea of being attracted to cis women bad because I was talking to very Machiavellian/cold people. Technically I always have been, probably before I became attracted to men but it's easy to explain away because my sexuality is weird and also mostly got romantic crushes on guys.

Someone was suggesting I should test to see if I was sexually attracted to women and I didn't like the implication that most afab people have no sexuality (and can get into anything sexually,) because it was being used to invalidate other experiences I had, and also seems to be used in a controlling way against afab people by eg: Bailey. None of these people are me except where I say me in the quote there are several people talking in some of these but I can't be bothered to come up with identifiers and these are taken from different days:

 
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What's the difference between ROGD and AHE ?
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One helps Bailey's cognitive dissonance more
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Can an AHE have ROGD ?
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in Bailey's model, ROGD causes AHE
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Lol right
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inb4 "Women don't have a sexuality" becomes "Women don't have a self body preference"
...

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Or are you saying that ROGD cases tend to desist?
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I feel like you might be starting to make the same mistake as [name], which is assuming [other name] endorses Bailey rather than being detached and fascinated
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I am kinda upset
...

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try masturbating to lesbian stuff for a few days as an experiment?
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"I'm different than most women is a valid stance", but then your own experiences don't mean much for whether Bailey is right. I feel like if you just tried it a bit we'd have a starting point
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Originally Posted by me
just basic lesbian porn
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I mean, it can be nudes instead. Or anything depicting women. But according to Bailey, lesbian porn should be the most effective. M/f is cheating because you can focus on the guy. Are you up for doing the experiment?
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Originally Posted by me
I might do if I do I guess I'll report back but it will have to wait a few more days at least
for physiological reasons
...

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Should I suggest to Bailey that they should try inducing AGP in dysphoric women to make them cis, since clearly it's possible by his model? [somewhat sarcastic response]
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Actually, I should probably collect the evidence on FtM non-HSTS transition now, because Oren Amitay asked [some private mail list thing] about whether there were positive results for ROGD transition
...

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Along with the question of ROGD outcomes, Amitay gave a long list of other questions that he'd like people's thoughts on. I'm writing an email responding to them:

https://tinyurl.com/y8r2mpu6

is my email too autistic?
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They say that but where is their evidence or expertise
I don’t have acess
And Amitay got defensive when I asked about his methods
And what proof he has for libeling therapists he claims are brainwashing people into transition
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can I get feedback from someone who doesn't want me to yell at B&B, actually?
*rant continues*

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You should continue to get more evidence of misconduct and IRB bypass and then whistleblow To their universities
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I'm concerned that you are angry at Bailey & co and want me to say some types of stuff that wouldn't be popular
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That said
I’m angry at you for helping this scheme
On rogd
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is IRB bypass even prohibited in this case? I sent a short mail that I hope can help sink the whole ROGD ship
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[cut out stuff due to character limit] For this point, I would suggest you talk about the surface-level similarity between ROGD and autogynephilic dysphoria, and mention Bailey's point that since women don't have sexual orientations, they cannot be autoandrophilic in a paraphilic sense (i.e. lifelong strong sexual preference) despite having sexual fantasies that would seem autoandrophilic.

Ideally this would make the ROGD people need to argue publically that women don't have sexual orientations, which is probably inconvenient
...

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Originally Posted by me
I don't think I can do the lesbian thing right now, I'm too emotionally unstable and feel like I'm being manipulated btw


But that's not what I meant when I said other people's orientation changing bothers me, it's actually more just a narcissistic thing where I worry if I was hypothetically in a relationship with someone and their sexuality changed they'd leave me. Or only people who are repressed will date me before finding a better option. And I sometimes masochistically torture myself imagining being with someone and they run off with a masculine cis man and then look for evidence of that happening with other people(which is like OCD,) I also have a bunch of weird coping mechanism daydreams that subvert the idea, but I can't really go into that here.

At the same time if I think about it in a distanced way it seems ridiculous. But I also think I'm drawn to psychological self harm so.

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Many people with OCD do have a fear that their sexuality will change, though. So I wonder if this isn't related to OCD somehow, like HOCD, trans OCD, etc.
I don't know, probably but at the same time it seems common and one person said it happened to most of their patients who are similar to me, (I mean I wouldn't describe my sexuality like that but I think I fit the pixie thing,) so it's not an unrealistic fear. I think they even warn you about it beforehand. I'm not worried about my sexuality changing spontaneously it's just one reason I wouldn't want to go on hrt. And I guess now I'm also kind of fighting against people trying to control afab fluidity too.

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How many kinds of Christianity are there, though? The church can't even get people to agree on what Jesus meant in his sermons. A conspiracy is like a glass that's been knocked off the table. It exists for a time, maybe years or even decades, but it inevitably shatters. Every person involved has their own ambitions and no two of those people agree on what those ambitions should be. I just don't find long-term global conspiracies very credible.
Well I find the idea that all billionaires and people who have lots of power are working towards the same goals pretty dumb too yeah, especially given they often have a higher than average degree of psychopathic traits if not being actual psychopaths same with narcissism. I mean I'm sure they cooperate as it suits their goals but they're not all that interested in sharing power usually.

And there is always infighting in groups although I think Christians mostly agree and on a scale large enough that it persistently causes problems. There's no conspiracy there though it's just out in the open.

The big problem with conspiracy thinking is usually that people think the people carrying it out are doing it consciously and secretly like there's a conscious secret esoteric plan that's being hidden instead of things just moving in some direction because of a trend and mostly motivated by greed or whatever. And also they don't have evidence. Some conspiracy theories obviously turn out to be true later but most are unfalsifiable. Well the other thing is that many of them involve Satan, demons and aliens and that's especially bonkers without evidence lol but yeah.

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I don't think anyone is consciously thinking: "I know, I'll think about my rape the next time I'm turned on and maybe I can find some way to get over my trauma." They just can't avoid thinking about rape when they're turned on, just like I can't avoid flashbacks of my car accident when I see a bobblehead.

I think there are a lot of parallels between fetishes and phobias because only certain kinds of experiences create a lot of neurological excitement.

Idk, it's obviously very complex stuff. There aren't any easy to understand psychological phenomena.
Well I don't think it's conscious but it seems that's how people frame it, like some people with trauma who get involved in bdsm stuff say it's to help them by doing certain things in a safe environment. But Some people have a tendency to relive trauma in their mind and also think about how they could change things and stuff like that so it's probably related to that.

Also yeah only a minority of people's brains sexualise various phobias.

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I do wish I could change my dreams while I'm having them, though. Just stop them if they get too scary, or turn whatever is scaring me into something that isn't scary.
Yeah I've had a couple of lucid dreams, one was weird and I started to struggle to maintain control of the universe and then woke up lol. I'm not sure how my brain does that with scary things I don't think it always does but it has several times.

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post #32 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-22-2020, 06:09 PM
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I have a lot of trouble throwing out anything. Like, I keep old elastic bands, or pens that barely work, or loose screws from god-only-knows-what. I can get rid of something if it's well and truly broken, but I have a hard time getting rid of anything I can conceive of a use for. But I'm not as bad as my two youngest sisters. And I'm no worse than my brother. It's just something that runs in my family.
I guess thinking about it, I do keep a lot of stuff. My closet is pretty packed and my storage unit in my building is clearly the fullest of anyone's (although most of that is legit stuff like books, but also a box with TV Guides from the '90s and '00s). A lot of what I keep isn't very big, like maybe a wrapper of something I had a vague attachment to. An exception is boxes that stuff came in. If I purchased an electronics item, I keep the box. A DVD player box is smaller, but I have also kept the box of my 55" set from five years ago. It's sitting in my small studio apartment. Keeping this actually has a practical purpose, though, because if I were to move, I could put it back in that box for safety. I also keep an older CRT TV in a corner of the same room. I haven't turned it on in over nine years and am not sure if it still works (had no issues with it when I stopped using it for a flat screen), but it was the first set I had when I moved into this place, and I have a sentimental attachment to it.

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post #33 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-23-2020, 11:23 PM
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Yeah that makes sense. I don't think a lot of things about me are fixed though, so it's easier to say what I don't like. I feel like many people are very controlling and want to gaslight you into being what they want if they detect ambiguity, so I'm very defensive.
I think everyone prefers other people to be one way or another. It really boils down to whether or not they believe they have a right to impose on you. A good person might prefer you to be a particular way, but they understand that you have a right to make your own decisions. A bad person doesn't. "It's for your own good" is really just a cover for domination. "I want you to be such-and-such a way, so I'm going to browbeat you until you comply and make it seem like I'm doing you a favor at the same time." Concern trolling and gaslighting everywhere.

I'm very defensive about it as well, but I usually have pretty definite opinions about what I like and don't like. I don't feel at risk of being invaded by other people's opinions; I find other people's opinions easy to reject. 7 billion people can be wrong, imo. I find attempted intrusions insulting and react with hostility.

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I don't think I find the thought of being restricted to one disgusting, just limiting. This is kind of complicated though. I'm not sure if I can give enough context really in a limited number of quotes.
Wrt the one quote, not identifying with your assigned gender is not a mental health disorder.

I'm horribly lax about sexualizing other people. I don't think it much matters if you have a type and you like to eroticize them. And I don't think it much matters if you create erotica about that. I'm biased, ofc, because I write porn. I think all this guilt and shaming is excessive. What matters is whether or not you're capable of treating other people decently, like human beings, and caring about them. If you only happen to find [X] attractive and/or you only want to do [X], well, there's not much anyone can do about that. We all wish we could stop being perverts. As long as you're not forcing yourself on other people, I don't think anyone should try to make you feel bad. It's often the people who expect such scrupulosity who are incapable of caring about other people. Look at the zealots who murder in the name of a loving god.

Going back to a previous post, I would define a "chaser" not as a person who finds "X category of people attractive", but as a person who doesn't understand that the person they're attracted to has a right to live as they please. "I want you to be such-and-such a way, so I'm going to browbeat you until you comply and make it seem like I'm doing you a favor at the same time." <- Are you doing anything like that? If not, then you have nothing to worry about. Men have been treating women that way for most of history. Women treat men that way, too (cf. Candace Owens). It's the people who try to manipulate the people they're attracted to into behaving a certain way, or getting or not getting certain surgeries, contrary to the other person's own desires and best interests who are the "chasers". How is a lesbian who tries to convince afabs they're attracted to not to transition NOT a chaser ... of lesbians? How is a man who tries to force his gfs to be more feminine than they want to be not a chaser? I don't understand the distinction. "I'm attracted to a certain kind of person, and I'm going to find some way to make you that kind of person, no matter how miserable it makes you." That's the essence of chasery.

Which is not to say you can't enjoy that in fantasy and in erotica. I don't have any problem with that. Corruption and mind-control, etc. I've written straight-to-gay conversion and sissification and bimbofication myself. But know how to tell the difference between a real person with real feelings and an imaginary construct. You can't traumatize an imaginary construct. (Well, fictionally you can, if that's your thing.) It may be that porn is contagious (in the sense of giving one a new interest) [though I'm not convinced] but it doesn't follow from that that my empathy changes in response. Sexual moralists who want to trample on the rights of others by dictating sexual practices have more in common with the perverts who want to trample on the rights of others by dictating opposite sexual practices than either have with people who have no wish to trample on the rights of anyone. Regardless of how perverted the latter are.

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But that's not what I meant when I said other people's orientation changing bothers me, it's actually more just a narcissistic thing where I worry if I was hypothetically in a relationship with someone and their sexuality changed they'd leave me.
Okay, yeah, that makes perfect sense. Idk why that wasn't the first thing that occurred to me. Those are reasonable concerns. I don't really think about consequences like that because I can't imagine how I would ever get into another relationship. I fantasize about being in relationships, but I never take those fantasies as serious possibilities so I'm never getting to the point of thinking, "Well, what if this happened?" Mine are always smashing successes.

I think almost everyone engages in some form of self-harm. (To different degrees, ofc.) When I want to self-harm, I find the most beautiful women I can and compare myself to them. Works like a charm.

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I don't know, probably but at the same time it seems common and one person said it happened to most of their patients
Well, OCD is often about perfectly reasonable fears. I'm not saying it is OCD, I'm just saying that the fact that it could actually happen doesn't mean it's not OCD. People get OCD about car accidents and cancer and those are both pretty common. It all depends on how you're responding to it. It's reasonable to be concerned, but it wouldn't be reasonable to spend all of your time obsessively researching it. That's not really any different from obsessively researching cancer because you might get cancer. (Like I did last year.) A lot of OCD is about trying to reassure yourself that something you're afraid of won't happen. "Is this me? No, it's not me because X. But maybe it is me because Y. But it's not me because Z. But it might be because Q." <- that's the kind of rabbit hole OCDers fall into. That's why they call it the "doubting disease".

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Well I find the idea that all billionaires and people who have lots of power are working towards the same goals pretty dumb too ... many of them involve Satan, demons and aliens and that's especially bonkers
Some groups are trouble at times. And they often have secrets. But I tend to think of conspiracies as being highly coordinated efforts between people who have essentially identical goals. And that's the part I find hard to believe. Christians have been troublesome over the centuries but they haven't been terribly coordinated. The level of coordination and cooperation is what makes a conspiracy threatening. A bunch of narcissists stomping on the masses is something a little different. If you're throwing Satan and reptilians and trans people into the mix, you're a nutter.

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Well I don't think it's conscious but it seems that's how people frame it, like some people with trauma who get involved in bdsm stuff say it's to help them by doing certain things in a safe environment. But Some people have a tendency to relive trauma in their mind and also think about how they could change things and stuff like that so it's probably related to that.
Yeah, I think maybe there's some therapeutic value to it. There's some evidence that rewriting the script can be beneficial. I just don't really like when it's framed in a way that makes it seem like people are exploiting their own trauma for its erotic potential, because I don't think that's what's going on. "Sexualize" sort of suggests an intention to imbue an experience with sexual energy. Whereas I'd rather not have rape fantasies but I can't avoid having them sometimes when I'm turned on. Just like I can't avoid thinking about being homeless when I look at my bank account. Once they're there it's sort of like your options are fantasize about it or don't fantasize at all. And a person shouldn't have to give up sex or orgasms just because they had a traumatic sexual experience.

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post #34 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-24-2020, 11:29 PM
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(my brain is a bit fuzzy at the moment so I'm not sure if this response will be great. Also merry Christmas as it's technically that although it's kind of cancelled where I live. I hope this Christmas emoji works �� emojis are very inconsistent. Also had to remove parts of quotes again to fit >.<)

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Originally Posted by truant View Post
I think everyone prefers other people to be one way or another. It really boils down to whether or not they believe they have a right to impose on you. A good person might prefer you to be a particular way, but they understand that you have a right to make your own decisions. A bad person doesn't. "It's for your own good" is really just a cover for domination. "I want you to be such-and-such a way, so I'm going to browbeat you until you comply and make it seem like I'm doing you a favor at the same time." Concern trolling and gaslighting everywhere.

I'm very defensive about it as well, but I usually have pretty definite opinions about what I like and don't like. I don't feel at risk of being invaded by other people's opinions; I find other people's opinions easy to reject. 7 billion people can be wrong, imo. I find attempted intrusions insulting and react with hostility.
Yeah I think most people have a preference for how other people should be based on their own perception.

I don't think it's just that I'm invaded by other people's opinions. I think I'm somewhat inconsistent anyway historically about some things and also highlight some things more than others at different times. But yeah like I said when people pick up on that many try to use it against you if you don't tick every box they have.

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Wrt the one quote, not identifying with your assigned gender is not a mental health disorder.
Ah the image link questions? Yeah they're from 2018. I don't know if he was fired but there's some weird news stuff with him involved from 2019 and now he spends most of his time I think on YouTube interviewing detransistioners (I think his twitter account was suspended but not sure about his YouTube. Oh yeah he stopped uploading videos there 2 years ago.) He's one of those weird Toronto based psychologists.

I think Amitay is generally of the opinion that most young people especially afab people should not be transitioning. He seems to generally be... A bit of an idiot hence the 'slippery slope' lizard people argument. Though in saying that I don't think Human creativity is held back indefinitely, but it's dumb to have a conversation about hypothetical futures like that now. Or well, it's not dumb maybe at a transhumanist conference, but it is dumb if you're easily spooked like he obviously is and the focus of discussion is supposed to be transgender kids. One cyberpunk civil rights movement at a time please.

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I'm horribly lax about sexualizing other people. I don't think it much matters if you have a type and you like to eroticize them. And I don't think it much matters if you create erotica about that. I'm biased, ofc, because I write porn. I think all this guilt and shaming is excessive. What matters is whether or not you're capable of treating other people decently, like human beings, and caring about them. ... As long as you're not forcing yourself on other people, I don't think anyone should try to make you feel bad
Well yeah I'm not pursuing people at all lol so in that sense I'm/they're safe.

I think I've just seen so many people use the word chaser in so many different ways including some trans people about themselves that I've just started adopting it now and then to describe sexualities that seem basically unlabelled anyway. Actually I think there might be obscure terms now.

I try not to be manipulative but sometimes I think expressing attraction or lack of is manipulative in itself (I wouldn't do that to someone to try and influence them, but I've definitely discussed that about famous people etc or certain characters, which I think feeds into that culturally.) Sometimes people will radically change themselves just to try to be attractive to you or maybe because you had some weird influence on them as well, but I found that kind of unsettling when someone did that because of me.

No I think people should make decisions that are best for them, so I wouldn't tell them not to do something they wanted to do. Oh I think lesbians who do that are considered chasers by a lot of people actually but people tend to talk about people chasing trans masc people less and also tend to talk about women being chasers less, but weirdly straight cis men pressuring straight cis women isn't considered to be the same at all from what I can see. Some guy I went on a few dates with kept trying to get me to wear dresses. Tbh though that's not even that highly ranked in bad experiences with guys for me so :') I guess it's because the term chaser evolved in the trans community though which is why it's not used in other contexts.

Anyway for the most part I'm unattracted to people who are trying to make themselves more like someone I'm not attracted to, so I don't see any appeal to trying to make them more a certain way. But I guess if someone asks I'll tell them my opinion because I just remembered I did this with a musician I found attractive when he asked whether or not he looked better with facial hair on twitter and I answered based on what I personally find attractive which I don't always do but yeah. I guess sometimes certain thoughts pop into my head though about people I don't personally know. Like in a video I watched a while back where Abby Shapiro was complaining about feminine men not being attractive to her and so they shouldn't exist I was ironically thinking 'what if Abby Shapiro was a lesbian?' 'That would be cute.' I think I have these thoughts more around very traditional and/or religious people who are lecturing other people which is kind of ironic. But anyway, I wouldn't actually want them to change for real unless they wanted to.

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Okay, yeah, that makes perfect sense. Idk why that wasn't the first thing that occurred to me. Those are reasonable concerns. I don't really think about consequences like that because I can't imagine how I would ever get into another relationship. I fantasize about being in relationships, but I never take those fantasies as serious possibilities so I'm never getting to the point of thinking, "Well, what if this happened?" Mine are always smashing successes.

I think almost everyone engages in some form of self-harm. (To different degrees, ofc.) When I want to self-harm, I find the most beautiful women I can and compare myself to them. Works like a charm.
Ah I can do that when I'm daydreaming sometimes, but then usually reality gets in the way after so long. 'This is never going to happen/too unrealistic' might be why I often daydreamed about fictional people or other people without myself for a lot of my life.

I think the internet makes it very easy to do that unfortunately. I don't remember doing that sort of thing when I was a teenager though weirdly.

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Well, OCD is often about perfectly reasonable fears. I'm not saying it is OCD, I'm just saying that the fact that it could actually happen doesn't mean it's not OCD. People get OCD about car accidents and cancer and those are both pretty common. It all depends on how you're responding to it. ... A lot of OCD is about trying to reassure yourself that something you're afraid of won't happen. "Is this me? No, it's not me because X. But maybe it is me because Y. But it's not me because Z. But it might be because Q." <- that's the kind of rabbit hole OCDers fall into. That's why they call it the "doubting disease".
I don't think I spend that much time researching that compared to other obsessions I have, I don't think I've really tried to reassure myself it won't happen either but I think I mostly look for evidence for why bad things will happen lol. I think I am a pretty obsessive person in general though about certain things.

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Some groups are trouble at times. And they often have secrets. But I tend to think of conspiracies as being highly coordinated efforts between people who have essentially identical goals. And that's the part I find hard to believe. Christians have been troublesome over the centuries but they haven't been terribly coordinated.
Hm yeah it's hard to get people working together I think most conspiracy theories involve large groups and most of society too. Also yeah it kind of sucks that they have a culturally damaging effect because Alex Jones is also hilarious like clips from his Joe Rogan interview were at the time I first watched them pretty hilarious.

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Yeah, I think maybe there's some therapeutic value to it. There's some evidence that rewriting the script can be beneficial. I just don't really like when it's framed in a way that makes it seem like people are exploiting their own trauma for its erotic potential, because I don't think that's what's going on. "Sexualize" sort of suggests an intention to imbue an experience with sexual energy. Whereas I'd rather not have rape fantasies but I can't avoid having them sometimes when I'm turned on. Just like I can't avoid thinking about being homeless when I look at my bank account. Once they're there it's sort of like your options are fantasize about it or don't fantasize at all. And a person shouldn't have to give up sex or orgasms just because they had a traumatic sexual experience.
Yeah that probably wasn't the right word tbf.

I don't think people should have to do that either. The only time it worries me is when people go back to abusive people/their rapist which is something that was being talked about in the reddit thread I found. I find that very upsetting and also the way some people react to it and think it justifies rape.

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post #35 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-25-2020, 02:10 AM
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@Persephone The Dread Merry Christmas. All I got were question marks, so I'll have to imagine the emoji. I'll respond to the rest of your post later. Unfortunately, I'm not getting out of Christmas this year (or any year) so I have to be up early. And the stress has given me a migraine. Which will probably last the whole day.

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post #36 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-25-2020, 02:24 PM
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@truant

Oh it was just this Christmas tree lol:

https://emojipedia.org/christmas-tree/

I noticed the santa emoji stayed up in another thread so thought it might but it just disappeared like most of the others.

We're in tier 4 lockdown so can't visit other houses atm, but will probably have to do stuff later on (so I guess I won't think about that for now because I don't like things dragging on.) Still had a short zoom call earlier with my dad though. I hope your migraine gets better.

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post #37 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-29-2020, 07:31 AM
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I'm trying to fight my OCD a bit. I have larger "rituals" that I only do at certain times and that in my skewed feeling "set me up" going forward on a few fronts. They never go right because as the years have gone on, I've become more restrictive on certain things, more permissive on others. I did one of these last week and, predictably, because of laziness mostly, a few things didn't go correctly. I'm trying to shrug it off and change these thought patterns, but it's very difficult. Edit: I don't think I can do it. I might have to "try again"; have just made too many "mistakes".
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post #38 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-06-2021, 10:40 AM
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Long time reader of this Forum, Hello. I’ve always had this issue but the last few months have been the worst to the point it is a 24/7 process & obsession. I’ve completely isolated myself from loved ones & friends as just been so depressed. The thing is you know its unrealistic but I feel I have no control over them or how to stop it. I don’t post often, but Im very happy right now talking with all of you who deal with the same. Its probably the biggest struggle & I literally just want my brain to shut off
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post #39 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-07-2021, 04:41 PM
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Welcome to the forum, @SilverLight94 . OCD is a beast of a problem. I understand completely how frightening and exhausting it is. OCD can be managed to some degree. Schwartz's Four Steps helped me enormously. I still use it religiously to manage my OCD. You might want to check it out. Feel free to vent if you have to.

Beauty isn't everything. It's the only thing.
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post #40 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-10-2021, 10:38 AM
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Thank you so much,I've already bookmarked the link & will read up on it. Im very embarrassed to "vent" openly about myself.

#1 My fear of outbursts, Mouthing & saying curse words such as F**k, S***t, a***h*le in public or making fun of ppl loudly. It's a massive fear as that is the direct OPPOSITE thing I want to do & I don't want people to get mad at me. I feel the urge & impulse to say stuff or mouthing them to people in conversation & its become an irrational fear. In my head I feel like I actually do say the things or even mumble them & the people hear it & then I zone out for next 25 mins in fear I said it but not being fully sure I did. I'm so scared that I mumble them under my breath & ppl hear me & that the people I talk to will dislike me because of it, even though I would NEVER do so in reality, just an irrational fear.


I know its sounds so crazy & odd, It's stopped me from really wanting to go out much these days evening a pandemic.
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