nobody seems to be able to engage in "meta" discourse - Social Anxiety Forum
 
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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 04:30 AM Thread Starter
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nobody seems to be able to engage in "meta" discourse


i'm referring to talking about behaviors and phenomenons that people exhibit, WITH those same people.

i have tried to the best of my ability to make people i talk to "reach my level", but it's just impossible. Some have been close, but no cigar.

Being able to have a friend/lover/sibling/coworker/whatever that you can talk to about their own behaviors.

like if i'm annoying someone, instead of telling me to stop doing annoyance X, they'll just ignore me or do something else to cope with it. even if i'd tell them that i have a habit of annoying people and please tell me if i'm annoying,they won't do it.

people are also , by the same token, unable to talk about themselves. i can't ask someone how they prefer to be greeted, or treated in any way, for that matter. like for example, my new coworker, has their birthday tomorrow. i want to ask if they give a crap about birthdays so i now whether to wish them a happy bday or not. but asking such a question is too meta for basically everyone and it'll short circuit their brains.

there was a person i talked to for a few months online. he was super intuitive and always called me out whenever he noticed if i was being hypocritical or anything else,and i would respond in kind. so we'd evolve each other by pointing out each others faults and discussing our personal improvements, with each other, about each other. sadly he was also a douchebag so i had to cut him off, but he was , in a way, my ideal friend.

it seems like if i want to deal with person X's tendency to do Y behavior, i have to vent to person Z and get advice from them on how to handle person X, instead of just addressing behavior Y directly with person X.

hastily composed thread because my lunch break is over and i hope to be able to expound on this when i get home.

i really wish to have people like this in my life.
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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
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see what i mean?
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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 07:01 PM
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Most people dislike and will avoid confrontation unless they feel it's necessary.
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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 07:20 PM
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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 09:59 PM
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I know plenty of people who would be fine with the birthday thing as it's inoffensive as opposed to actual criticism. Most people don't want to better themselves or hear constructive criticism. Usually when I have met people who are cool with it, it works if we confirm first that we're open to it. How you say the feedback is important, too. Way more people are open to hearing it if it's calmly, positively phrased and clearly states what you think it'd be better for them to do and how it would benefit them. And phrased in a way that is open to you being incorrect, because if you get it wrong it's unpleasant for the person to hear you insist that something about them is true that isn't.

I have a friend atm who is open to this but I'm not good at giving feedback without being upset/irritated, and he sometimes tries to give feedback before understanding things completely, so it contains assumptions. We manage some positive growth through helping one another but it's not ideal.

A lot of people just don't know themselves very well and arrive at their opinions based on those opinions being the norm. So maybe they wouldn't be able to question what they think or do even if they were willing to.

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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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sorry everyone i never updated my post as originally intended


Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone The Dread View Post
Most people dislike and will avoid confrontation unless they feel it's necessary.
heh, i don't see it as confrontation. it just feels.... right to me?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Suchness View Post
I can do it easy just cbf most of the time.
keepin an eye on you, dude.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitcake View Post
I know plenty of people who would be fine with the birthday thing as it's inoffensive as opposed to actual criticism. Most people don't want to better themselves or hear constructive criticism. Usually when I have met people who are cool with it, it works if we confirm first that we're open to it. How you say the feedback is important, too. Way more people are open to hearing it if it's calmly, positively phrased and clearly states what you think it'd be better for them to do and how it would benefit them. And phrased in a way that is open to you being incorrect, because if you get it wrong it's unpleasant for the person to hear you insist that something about them is true that isn't.

I have a friend atm who is open to this but I'm not good at giving feedback without being upset/irritated, and he sometimes tries to give feedback before understanding things completely, so it contains assumptions. We manage some positive growth through helping one another but it's not ideal.

A lot of people just don't know themselves very well and arrive at their opinions based on those opinions being the norm. So maybe they wouldn't be able to question what they think or do even if they were willing to.
Wow this is very interesting and poignant.

I have not really seen it as constructive criticism, just.... meta (it's part of a broader world view of mine, obvi)....

altho i must say, it is not possible to ever understand something complete,y, that's why one should engage in this sort of discourse to enable oneself and others to understand more. it is evident in your post as well: "positive growth through helping one another"

friends i'll never have any fcvking friends
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