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post #21 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-23-2020, 05:03 PM
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Why do you think it’s a troll question?

Genuine interested in the correlation

The bad narcissism is caused by a lack of self esteem, and they use a projection method to protect them of their insecurity.

I feel like the mechanism behind SAD is to cause anxiety to avoid certain scenarios

Btw by no means I am attacking anyone, I just read an article and was interested about everyone opinion. Everyone here is so easily drawn to conclusion.
Normally when people had asked questions relating to this, or generally to categorize those with SAD and/or other mental illness(es), it is usually in a mockery type of way, which brings a defense mode in response. I apologize that I may have jumped to conclusion if you are genuine about the question.

Social anxiety disorder is fear of social interaction. Genetics and environmental factors can play in part (childhood abuse, lack of social exposure while growing up, trauma that can stem from repeated negative interactions, etc.)

Narcissists generally have an innate defensive response which can resort for them to appear grandiose (most portrayal of narcissists); even for those who are more passive, it still seeks for interaction that manipulates in ways that makes those they interact with question their reality since the 'quiet' narcissists can easily portray themselves as victims. There's a broader spectrum that makes it difficult to distinguish whether a person is a narcissist, or if they can qualify to be diagnosed Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) according to the DSM-V.

I'd suggest watching Dr. Ramani's series about narcissism since she adequately explains about the different types of narcissism.



(More of a basic video, but I do remember there being an interview where there were maybe seven types listed. Unfortunately I'm having a hard time finding it.)


TEDx Talk:


I guess the general distinction and conclusion is that narcissists do have motives when they want to interact with others. Those with SAD fear social scenarios and avoid or have as minimal interaction as possible, therefore 'benefit' by avoiding social interaction.
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post #22 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-23-2020, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CNikki View Post
Normally when people had asked questions relating to this, or generally to categorize those with SAD and/or other mental illness(es), it is usually in a mockery type of way, which brings a defense mode in response. I apologize that I may have jumped to conclusion if you are genuine about the question.

Social anxiety disorder is fear of social interaction. Genetics and environmental factors can play in part (childhood abuse, lack of social exposure while growing up, trauma that can stem from repeated negative interactions, etc.)

Narcissists generally have an innate defensive response which can resort for them to appear grandiose (most portrayal of narcissists); even for those who are more passive, it still seeks for interaction that manipulates in ways that makes those they interact with question their reality since the 'quiet' narcissists can easily portray themselves as victims. There's a broader spectrum that makes it difficult to distinguish whether a person is a narcissist, or if they can qualify to be diagnosed Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) according to the DSM-V.

I'd suggest watching Dr. Ramani's series about narcissism since she adequately explains about the different types of narcissism.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uJs0iGQN0M

(More of a basic video, but I do remember there being an interview where there were maybe seven types listed. Unfortunately I'm having a hard time finding it.)


TEDx Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHHWgG7dB6A


I guess the general distinction and conclusion is that narcissists do have motives when they want to interact with others. Those with SAD fear social scenarios and avoid or have as minimal interaction as possible, therefore 'benefit' by avoiding social interaction.
Oh those are some interesting information.

Like as myself, when somone attacks me verbally I usually retaliate in a bad way. Not sure if a person with social anxiety would do that
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post #23 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-23-2020, 05:48 PM
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Oh those are some interesting information.

Like as myself, when somone attacks me verbally I usually retaliate in a bad way. Not sure if a person with social anxiety would do that
Some people can have a breaking point and lash out after having the 'flight' mode of avoiding undesirable interactions for so long. In severe cases, SAD is where interaction is to be avoided and remain in that flight mode to not have circumstances where you would have to stick up for yourself. In a world where we are having no other choice, it's all the more difficult and more severe consequences for people with SAD.

Unfortunately I'm the same way. It's not that I 'want' to retaliate and 'become aggressive'. In fact after the fact it still follows me throughout the day and even at night where I may not sleep well. But it's the world we're living in.
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post #24 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-23-2020, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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Some people can have a breaking point and lash out after having the 'flight' mode of avoiding undesirable interactions for so long. In severe cases, SAD is where interaction is to be avoided and remain in that flight mode to not have circumstances where you would have to stick up for yourself. In a world where we are having no other choice, it's all the more difficult and more severe consequences for people with SAD.

Unfortunately I'm the same way. It's not that I 'want' to retaliate and 'become aggressive'. In fact after the fact it still follows me throughout the day and even at night where I may not sleep well. But it's the world we're living in.
I personally also have a mood swings alot, usually il be super confidence and passive aggresive if nothing works in my way,

then il start becoming depressed/full of anxiety its like a vicious cycle

it sucks in general
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post #25 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-24-2020, 10:15 PM
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Can be related. Social anxiety often occurs with other mental disorders. Seems like those with social anxiety haven't developed proper functioning ego defense mechanisms that help ward off negative feelings whereas in narcissism they have by compensating for their feelings of inferiority that might have otherwise turned into feelings of inadequacy and social anxiety.
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post #26 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-24-2020, 11:02 PM Thread Starter
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Can be related. Social anxiety often occurs with other mental disorders. Seems like those with social anxiety haven't developed proper functioning ego defense mechanisms that help ward off negative feelings whereas in narcissism they have by compensating for their feelings of inferiority that might have otherwise turned into feelings of inadequacy and social anxiety.
I agree with you,

people with social anxiety seems to be very sensitive also, more empathetic. In turn they can become easily a people pleaser to compensate for their lack of ego. A malignant narcissist try attacking other people to compensate for the lack of an ego.

Everyone seems to group narcissism to one specific type, but there are many at play.

Also in practical terms, vulnerable narcissism may very well correlate with social anxiety.
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post #27 of 80 (permalink) Old 03-16-2020, 05:42 PM
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I agree with you,

people with social anxiety seems to be very sensitive also, more empathetic. In turn they can become easily a people pleaser to compensate for their lack of ego. A malignant narcissist try attacking other people to compensate for the lack of an ego.

Everyone seems to group narcissism to one specific type, but there are many at play.

Also in practical terms, vulnerable narcissism may very well correlate with social anxiety.
I can see it. But at the same time...SA'ers are so preoccupied with their inner thoughts and worries they don't really focus on what other people are thinking or feeling. Narcissists seek approval or to manipulate people by focusing on what others think rather than their own thoughts.
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post #28 of 80 (permalink) Old 03-16-2020, 06:49 PM
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Having just read about narcissistic personality disorder, I can't help but think that a little of this could actually be a gift in the awful world that we live in. It sound like exactly the type of mindset that would lead to success.
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post #29 of 80 (permalink) Old 03-16-2020, 08:11 PM
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Im actually offended that you put me in the same category as a narcissist but the reality is most people in general are pretty screwed up but some thrive in our world better than others.

Both the socially anxious and narcissists are maladapted in regards to self-esteem. A narcissist has a deep need for excessive attention and admiration whereas someone with SA fears this attention.

Someone who is truly a peace within themselves doesn't require validation from others.

Unfortunately within our world of commerce, manipulation and influence, the narcissist seems to thrive and is financially rewarded. They often get the opportunity of making sh1tloads of money. They even get to share a small amount of their wealth with the "poor" to feel even better within themselves. Collectively we define this as "success".
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post #30 of 80 (permalink) Old 03-17-2020, 02:25 AM
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Everything is on a spectrum, its all a question of how severe something is, also without a context every person could be diagnosed with quite a lot of ****ty stuff, anxiety is a natural reaction, lack of anxiety is actually weirder, narcissism isnt about being self absorbed as much as being unable to see others/understand them.
That is my somewhat cliche answer
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post #31 of 80 (permalink) Old 03-17-2020, 07:20 AM
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I'm unsure I get it because, most narcissist people would walk over someone else to meet their needs, while social anxious people tend to stay away and wait to take what's left after everyone's gone. so..... ??
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post #32 of 80 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow123 View Post
Why do you think it’s a troll question?

Genuine interested in the correlation

The bad narcissism is caused by a lack of self esteem, and they use a projection method to protect them of their insecurity.

I feel like the mechanism behind SAD is to cause anxiety to avoid certain scenarios

Btw by no means I am attacking anyone, I just read an article and was interested about everyone opinion. Everyone here is so easily drawn to conclusion.
From all the books on narcissism that I have read, it is an extreme form of self-image management stemming from low self-esteem/self-worth. I think the difference between the Narcissist and the Anxious-Avoidant is that the latter is self-aware and other-aware (ie. has empathy). Contrary to appearances, I suspect the Narcissist is unable to feel any real joy. When you choose to numb your emotions, you numb the good along with the bad. It's a sad, incomplete existence, albeit one that is generally more functional in our contemporary society.

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post #33 of 80 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 04:42 PM
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some people seem to be able to take all their negative judgements and work on themselves until they judge themselves positively - but then they judge other people that don't live up to their standard as weak etc, since they used to be the worst but overcame it (they were never the worst but they thought that) so why couldn't anyone else? and they turn what was their disgust of themselves onto others. i guess they leverage that to also keep up their self maintenance because they wouldn't want to become one of those disgusting weak people again.

i've been the recipient of that disgust from one or two people from an anxiety themed meetup group. (of course they were shallow pua, gym obsessed people lol)

i guess some people are just anxious from conditioning, genes etc while some are anxious because they buy into the social hierarchy 110% like good little lobsters but find themselves at the bottom.

I alone cannot change the world, but I can cast a stone across the waters to create many ripples. ― Mother Teresa
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post #34 of 80 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 07:31 PM
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A narcissist with social anxiety lol. Imagine that.

What is a man?
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post #35 of 80 (permalink) Old 03-22-2020, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Matthew19 View Post
Having just read about narcissistic personality disorder, I can't help but think that a little of this could actually be a gift in the awful world that we live in. It sound like exactly the type of mindset that would lead to success.

That mindset has probably led to the awful world we live in.


Would rather pick up dog crap for a living than targeting people, one after the other, just to see how much misery you can inflict on them.


Its a very ****ed up mindset.
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post #36 of 80 (permalink) Old 03-22-2020, 12:48 PM
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post #37 of 80 (permalink) Old 03-22-2020, 01:06 PM
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indeed, the little speccy ****
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post #38 of 80 (permalink) Old 03-22-2020, 01:11 PM
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@Shadow123

Never got to reading this one, but if you want to look deeper into that question, you might want to read this book: Shame: The Underside of Narcissism.

((( connect or perish )))
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post #39 of 80 (permalink) Old 03-22-2020, 05:40 PM
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I've been a narcissist for much of my life. I like to think that I've recovered from it with socializing. Talking to other people and hearing what they have to say and trying to help them takes me out of my solo patterns and changes my focus.

I have been a hero-narcissist, helping others solely for the purpose of self image.

My self image was constantly under attack by sadists who bullied me and my narcissistic machevelian mother, who failed to be impressed with anything I ever did. My attempts to honor her biblically with greater and greater achievements always fell flat, forcing me to go bigger and better just to try to fulfill my levitical obligation to her.

Finally with coronovirus she listened to something I had been cooking up my whole life and there was a concussion of relief to me.

Ever since I've felt free of this hero-narcissistic-levitical complex and I've been enjoying doing pretty much nothing important.

When coronovirus ends I'll figure something else out and try to base it on healthier patterns.

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Narcisissts rarely accept thats what they are eh so well done on that.


Seem to have shaken it off easy enough as well.
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post #40 of 80 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 03:51 AM
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For those interested:
Narcissistic Thinking in an Avoidance Vortex

The above article looks at avoidant behaviour (common coping mechanism in social anxiety) in terms of preventing some anticipated rejection/humiliation or failure to meet one's own self-imposed standards. In essence you wish to avoid feeling anxious so much that you are willing to overlook any negative consequences that your behaviour might have on someone else (essentially placing your own need to avoid feeling bad above whatever needs other people may have).

Unlike plain old selfishness, avoidants are aware that they are in the wrong and feel plenty of self-loathing. But that awareness and guilt is not enough for change, they are nonetheless able to detach and rationalise to themselves in a way that continues the cycle of avoidance. The compulsion, detachment, and egocentrism at work here is similar to the narcissist's modus operandi. And if one considers classic narcissism as compulsive self-soothing at the expense of hurting other people, then extreme avoidance is basically the same thing, plus it is also done at the expense of hurting yourself. The article calls this "vulnerable narcissism".

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