AvPD vs. social anxiety - Page 2 - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-20-2018, 01:04 PM
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AvPD is related to schizophrenia (along with schizoid and schizotypal,) and at one point they were considered the same diagnosis but were seperated in the 80s I believe.

It seems AvPD is more likely if you have family members with schizophrenia (they are genetically related.)

AvPD doesn't just concern social anxiety but is a pattern of avoidance as a response to anything that makes you uncomfortable.
my mum has schizophrenia and i'm always avoiding going to school, going maths (because i have no friends there), walking past people and just going outside to go shopping. is there a chance i might have avpd?

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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-20-2018, 01:11 PM
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my mum has schizophrenia and i'm always avoiding going to school, going maths (because i have no friends there), walking past people and just going outside to go shopping. is there a chance i might have avpd?
i feel like that could be the deal. i pretty much do the same, but for other reasons. especially going out to go shopping, but it's not because of the people as much as it is the fact that a shopping trip that should be an hour ends up being somewhere around 4 or 5 hours lol..
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-20-2018, 01:19 PM
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i feel like that could be the deal. i pretty much do the same, but for other reasons. especially going out to go shopping, but it's not because of the people as much as it is the fact that a shopping trip that should be an hour ends up being somewhere around 4 or 5 hours lol..
yeah lol my mum spends ages looking at clothes but then she ends up buying nothing.

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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-20-2018, 01:23 PM
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yeah lol my mum spends ages looking at clothes but then she ends up buying nothing.
omg same though. she will go through half of the store and pick out maybe 2 things after an hour and a half and i'll be just standing nearby waiting. i don't know how she does it so often to be honest lol
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-20-2018, 03:23 PM
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my mum has schizophrenia and i'm always avoiding going to school, going maths (because i have no friends there), walking past people and just going outside to go shopping. is there a chance i might have avpd?
Maybe, you should try and get a professional diagnoses probably though if you're really interested in knowing (do as I say not as I do.)
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-20-2018, 04:15 PM
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@llodell88

1. do you have AvPD though? (I know you have schizophrenia.)

2. It is a distinct disorder that is hypothesised to be part of a spectrum (I can believe it because many members of my immediate and extended family have paranoid, avoidant, schizoid, socially anxious, generalised anxiety traits all kind of mashed up in varying combinations, and I have a cousin with diagnosed schizophrenia.)
I'm not schizophrenic. My ex-bf who's a computer hacker/programmer and likes to play with AI hacked my computer and lots of other stuff to mess with me and scare me. someone diagnosed me with schizophrenia, yeah, but i'm not being treated for it and i don't take any medication for it. my therapist doesn't believe i'm schizophrenic either.

Nobody diagnosed me with avpd but i certaintly have the symptoms, it's just not something that's diagnosed often even if in people do fit all the criteria. Paranoid personality is 4% of population and other personality disorders are like 15% +. I don't think it's really significant if you have family members with it but that's just my opinion. I think genetic links to mental illness are probably overstated but there is money to made off the idea so...also I've never said I was schizophrenic, just that someone diagnosed me with it. If I was, I would have no problem admitting it. I'm not being proud or anything like that.

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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-23-2018, 12:33 AM
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I understand AvPD as the same as social anxiety except the individual does not believe his social anxiety is not normal, they believe that people are actually all evil and judgmental and are constantly judging and negatively evaluating them in their minds. A person with SA on the other hand knows that their anxiety is not accurate, and that all people aren't actually evil and judgemental, and is aware that his anxiety is not normal.

If anyone read more into it, correct me if I'm wrong.
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-23-2018, 01:46 AM
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So do you really have too much of a desire to be around other people? It seems from your doctor's point of view of how he or she may have diagnosed you based on how you explained yourself has come to the conclusion that you actually desire to be around other people. With avoidant personality disorder it would seem rather obvious if how you explained yourself would involve that you actually do not have any desire to be around other people. With psychotherapy, even more so on medication some people's desires can change so that might point to showing you how either social anxiety or avoidant personality disorder can be similar to how you change your desires.

Someone with social anxiety might be uncomfortable to even desire to be around other people while someone else might have a desire to be around other people but too uncomfortable to form interpersonal and intimate relationships with those people. Now someone with avoidant personality disorder doesn't have any desire whatsoever to be around other people not because they're uncomfortable but because they just don't want to. I might be wrong on the uncomfortability one might feel either with avoidant personality disorder or social anxiety but to me it seems to point to the same symptom and that is an excessive amount of anxiety. Which makes me come to a conclusion that even though someone with avoidant personality disorder might not desire to be around other people and feel uncomfortable to have any interpersonal or intimate relationships might change their minds if they were comfortable instead through medication and therapy.

Even avoidant personality disorder describes that a person like this has severe social anxiety, social inhibition, "despite a strong desire for intimacy". WHAT? See even people with the so called avoidant personality disorder actually do have a strong desire to be comfortable enough to have interpersonal and intimate relationships with other people. So then it all comes down to everyone being diagnosed with the personality disorder first and foremost as its own definition includes severe social anxiety. I had severe social anxiety but with medication and therapy it sorted itself out to just social anxiety in some cases. I might have had avoidant personality disorder before but with medication and therapy I found out that I desire to be around other people!

It still doesn't quite make sense to me. To me it seems that social anxiety disorder falls under avoidant personality disorder as a personality disorder. You know how they classify disorders under personality disorder or cluster C and stuff. On Wikipedia it says that avoidant personality disorder is a Cluster C personality disorder. Well then that might be it for many of us! It was always a Cluster C personality disorder. All that Cluster C refers to is a bunch of anxious and fearful disorders. Sounds just like us don't it? Yay. Wow Cluster C also mentions in the same group OCD and dependent personality disorder. Oops that does sound like me too where I depend on my parents to take care of me. It's pretty normal to fall under one cluster, do other people fall under more? Ouch. If you read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoida...ality_disorder you can find out everything you need honey.

Well to me it seems that we all fall under Cluster C personality disorder, if you think you fall under Cluster A or Cluster B please don't hesitate to read about it. So it all boils down to social anxiety disorder being underneath Cluster C personality and also it seems to be part of avoidant personality disorder. Honey I don't understand your psychiatrist at all. In my opinion, when you see a psychiatrist don't take him or her as your only opinion. Always look for a second opinion and even third opinion or fourth opinion. I think maybe if you go to 10 different psychiatrists you can find a true answer depending on which diagnosis comes up more often. Goddarn it, that's what I'm gonna do, I ain't gonna take **** from one brain there are other brains under the same field of psychiatry who might have another opinion.

Well for me it does seem like a personality disorder without medication but with medication or therapy I seem to be just social anxiety and the personality of it is not there at all. Well only with medication it wasn't there at all. So it's really hard to fall under only one diagnosis especially when you recount your behavior on medication as well. Wow! And if you want to study and become your own psychiatrist then you can also have your own opinion. Isn't that like the most amazing thing ever?! Ahh it just feels like complete nirvana. To accept to being crazy when you're inherently a psychiatrist to begin with. I wonder if psychiatrists themselves are crazy to begin with, I don't even believe in a normal personality disorder anymore! It can't be. There's no such thing as a normal person studying and working in the field of psychiatry. It must be childish to think that all psychiatrists are normal people and to feel inferior to them. But you do have a right to not take any medication they prescribe, you need to seek out different opinions from a number of different psychiatrists.

Maybe instead of asking for a diagnosis you should ask under with Cluster of personality disorders you most likely fit under. And from there you can see all the disorders you possess. That was the problem to begin with, these psychiatrists don't feel like we deserve the whole answer, they just blurt out general anxiety or depression. Like no! I want to know more! It seems you need to stand up for your right to speak out and ask for more, don't give in to your avoidant tendency, go against yourself and ask to know more. Instead of asking what you diagnosis is, show the psychiatrist that you know alot about the field of psychiatry by choosing to ask which Cluster you fall under or what your personality disorder is.

Oh it looks like for you to fall under a personality disorder you need to meet certain criteria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person...neral_criteria oh my gosh! Well I do not want to look at this or read it, I want to be pure when I go in for my psychiatric evaluation.

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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 02:13 PM
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Also whether you get diagnosed with AvPD or SAD probably depends on whether the person diagnosing you treats AvPD more like schizoid-lite, or more like extreme SAD, and what your symptoms are like.

So unless he's talking about behaviour or expressed hesistation it seems like he's treating this as a schizoid thing but with presumably some differences.

So the problem with schizoid, is that the desire to not talk to/bond with people is exaggerated. Very few people seek diagnoses and it's understudied. Some people want to split things into AvPD and schizotypal. I believe you can go from one set to another it's really probably more about the set you most frequently fit into.

So people treat it as kind of a robotic disorder, when really it's more like a strong desire to avoid intimacy because it's uncomfortable, and maintain autonomy, coupled with finding many things understimulating and forming connections internally (fictional worlds/daydreaming.) With a lack of a strong internal identity and a desire to protect the self from engulfment by others or overwhelming stimuli, plus feeling like an alien or like you are observing life from an external viewpoint. And the desire to be around people can fluctuate. There are other more distinctive things though particuarly in how the disorder forms, but it's similar.

Pretty sure I am schizoid (not a walking stereotype and maybe AvPD as well,) and one thing I really related to was the idea that it's kind of like a split between a 'psychopathic' low empathy, cold self, and something very vulnerable and weak and unassertive and sensitive. And often as a result of a long period where you felt undermined or lacking in autonomy or unable to protect yourself (emotionally, not physically and I think this is important,) a part of you grows to resent the vulnerable self and/or want to avoid it. This isn't quite AvPD.. But also not psychopathy (or ASPD,) because that self still exists to be tapped into and to protect others from yourself.

But most dumb things you read are like 'the difference is that schizoids don't want to talk to people but AvPDs do.' Which is simplistic and dumb.
This is a great post. I've been pretty convinced for the last few months or so that I have AvPD (and have had it for some while now) and at first reading OP's post I thought, why would anyone think someone with AvPD would not want to talk to people or have connections with people?

But after reading this I actually think new light has been shed on my own situation. I identify at least a little bit with the "split" between a sensitive, vulnerable, unassertive self and a colder self that values dominance (and is therefore very resentful of the other self). It actually explains a lot about how I've always felt about certain things and certain people in my life, and in some cases how I've behaved. Not that I ever truly act out on anything, my SA and my sensitive side checks the other side I suppose. It's such a strange thing but I'm glad I finally might have an explanation.

I find it interesting that OP's psychiatrist has that particular view. I don't agree, but I do think that a connection between AvPD and schizoid exists, based on what I've experienced and what I've read. Personally, I think AvPD is kind of extreme SA but also emphasizes patterns of avoidance (obviously since it's in the name), even of things that aren't inherently social (I think someone posted something like that before me on this thread but I'm too lazy to quote another thing). I think having a weak or unstable sense of self and self-loathing is also more of an AvPD thing.


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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 09:23 AM
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I just thought AVPD was focused on avoidance being the coping mechanism of the exhibited anxiety. In general I can't really separate it that much from social anxiety.

Also don't forget that different cultures have different kinds of digsnies. Like Japan has diagnoses that are similar to western diagnoses but ultimately are not facsimiles.

So yes, to a large degree psychiatrist diagnoses are social constructs, they are used to designate and pinpoint individuals who are mentally unfit for main lane society.

LOL, even here in Sweden; we had a diagnosis called DAMP. it was replaced with Adhd in the late 90s or so. a lot of the critique of the damp diagnosis was that it was a social construct. Lol again.
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