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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-18-2017, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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Avoidant personality Disorder


Hi,
I think I might have an Avoidant personality disorder, I know self-diagnosis is not the way to go, but it just 100% matches me and I am going to see a Therapist anyway who will most likely confirm.
I was just wondering if any of you are dealing with this disorder and If you did therapy? If yes, did it help, what can I expect?
Thanks!
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-18-2017, 12:42 PM
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Hi,
I think I might have an Avoidant personality disorder, I know self-diagnosis is not the way to go, but it just 100% matches me and I am going to see a Therapist anyway who will most likely confirm.
I was just wondering if any of you are dealing with this disorder and If you did therapy? If yes, did it help, what can I expect?
Thanks!
Mental health diagnoses are a joke. It's really just a label that describes your behavior. And you can go to 5 different shrinks and get 5 different diagnoses. I see a lot of people saying they have 5 different disorders because they have gotten 5 different diagnoses from 5 different shrinks. I got a bunch of possibilities when I was in the loony bin; Schizophrenia, GAD, SAD, avoidant PD, delusional disorder.

There's almost no difference between SAD and AvPD. AvPD just seems like SAD that is impossible to treat because it has become a part of your personality. Think how hard it is for someone to change personailities - just about impossible In fact until a few years ago personality disorders were considered completely untreatable.
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/arti...yth-challenged
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-18-2017, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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Mental health diagnoses are a joke. It's really just a label that describes your behavior. And you can go to 5 different shrinks and get 5 different diagnoses. I see a lot of people saying they have 5 different disorders because they have gotten 5 different diagnoses from 5 different shrinks. I got a bunch of possibilities when I was in the loony bin; Schizophrenia, GAD, SAD, avoidant PD, delusional disorder.

There's almost no difference between SAD and AvPD. AvPD just seems like SAD that is impossible to treat because it has become a part of your personality. Think how hard it is for someone to change personailities - just about impossible In fact until a few years ago personality disorders were considered completely untreatable.
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/arti...yth-challenged
That sucks. Big time.
I hope I can at least get some advice on how to live my life to the fullest despite the condition. Maybe medication can help too, i hope.
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-18-2017, 01:02 PM
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That sucks. Big time.
I hope I can at least get some advice on how to live my life to the fullest despite the condition. Maybe medication can help too, i hope.
If you talk to a psychiatrist he'll probably go on about how great meds are. It's a crock. They rely on studies rigged by big pharma that show meds are miracle pills. They aren't. I hope you are going to see a psychologist who knows cognitive behavioral therapy. That's your best bet to improve.
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-18-2017, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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If you talk to a psychiatrist he'll probably go on about how great meds are. It's a crock. They rely on studies rigged by big pharma that show meds are miracle pills. They aren't. I hope you are going to see a psychologist who knows cognitive behavioral therapy. That's your best bet to improve.
I'll keep that in mind. Thanks mate!
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-18-2017, 02:26 PM
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Yeh,

I tentatively have this diagnosis.

The difference primarily between AvPD and social anxiety are in terms of severity, but that you will also avoid non social scenarios that might cause anxiety. You will also possibly find that avoidance is way in excess of anxiety levels. When I began doing exposure I would avoid low anxiety tasks simply because my default position had been to avoid and I wasn't prepared to tolerate any anxiety at all.

My treatment was (and is) talk based therapy with a very proficient psychologist and I voluntarily took on exposure therapy starting with very gradual tasks (1 or 2 out of 10 rating). My "comfortable" level is now 6 or 7 out of 10 and am able to to 9/10 tasks occasionally (though it takes a hell of a lot to do it).

Primary treatment should be therapy based imo, drugs won't do a lot. You might get some mileage from pregabalin as I do.

Good luck, and find a competent therapist who specialises in personality disorders. Personality disorders often overlap btw.

Compassion focused therapy audio, guided meditations:

https://balancedminds.com/audio/
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-18-2017, 02:49 PM
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also self-diagnosed AvPD. was diagnosed with SAD and did therapy for that, which helped with the anxiety, but not the avoidance. not trying to get better anymore, except for doing meetups, trying to find work...

:/
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-18-2017, 02:58 PM
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I have few traits of avoidant personality disorder, mostly about relationships/bonding/intimacy they could show up in other situations or context but... whatever. I never went to a doctor, didn't do anything and I may not, as there are other issues I need to work by my own I guess.

Good luck.

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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-18-2017, 03:24 PM
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Mental health diagnoses are a joke. It's really just a label that describes your behavior. And you can go to 5 different shrinks and get 5 different diagnoses. I see a lot of people saying they have 5 different disorders because they have gotten 5 different diagnoses from 5 different shrinks. I got a bunch of possibilities when I was in the loony bin; Schizophrenia, GAD, SAD, avoidant PD, delusional disorder.

There's almost no difference between SAD and AvPD. AvPD just seems like SAD that is impossible to treat because it has become a part of your personality. Think how hard it is for someone to change personailities - just about impossible In fact until a few years ago personality disorders were considered completely untreatable.
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/arti...yth-challenged
I think this is a key way of distinguishing the two besides severity:

Quote:
In particular, those with AvPD experience not only more severe social phobia symptoms, but are also more depressed and more functionally impaired than patients with generalized social phobia alone.[41] But they show no differences in social skills or performance on an impromptu speech.[42] Another difference is that social phobia is the fear of social circumstances whereas AvPD is better described as an aversion to intimacy in relationships.
That and the avoidance is a coping mechanism that expands to things not SA related as well.

AvPD is more prevalent in families of people with schizophrenia, and it's debated as to whether it's a schizophrenia spectrum disorder:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1904485/

Quote:
The detection of relatives of schizophrenia (Sz) probands who are affected by a schizophrenia-spectrum diagnosis allows delineation of an extended phenotype that may be helpful for establishing patterns of familial transmission. Accepted schizophrenia-spectrum disorders include: Sz, schizoaffective disorder, atypical psychosis, schizotypal personality disorder and paranoid personality disorder. Some family studies have also found a familial relationship of Sz with avoidant personality disorder which suggests that avoidant personality disorder is a schizophrenia-spectrum disorder. (Asarnow et al., 2001; Baron et al., 1985; Kendler et al., 1993)

Meehl (Meehl, 1962) hypothesized that social anxiety is part of the schizotypy core, predisposing to Sz. We review below several other lines of research which support the association between symptoms of social anxiety and a liability to Sz: social anxiety symptoms in the relatives of schizophrenics, social anxiety in patients with Sz, examination of “high-risk” children for early predictors of psychosis, and factor analyses demonstrating that social anxiety is separable from other types of schizophrenia-spectrum related psychopathology. These studies offer mixed support for the hypothesis that symptoms of social anxiety may represent an extended phenotype that may be helpful in the delineation of the familial transmission of Sz.
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Even when controlling for the presence of paranoid and schizotypal personality disorders, the analysis demonstrated that avoidant personality disorder is more prominent in first-degree relatives of Sz probands compared to CC relatives. This pattern suggests that avoidant personality disorder should be included as a Sz spectrum disorder. Our findings replicate and extend the findings of other family studies (Asarnow et al., 2001; Baron et al., 1985; Kendler et al., 1993).

Two individual symptoms of avoidant personality disorder had the highest odds ratios in the Sz relatives when compared to the CC relatives: avoids social or occupational activities…” (OR 4.6) and “exaggerates the potential difficulties…” (OR 4.5). These are the symptoms most characteristic of avoidant personality disorder when it lies on a Sz spectrum. These symptoms are similar to the symptoms found in children at high risk for developing Sz (Auerbach et al., 1993).

Since 71% (24 of 34) of the time, avoidant personality disorder appears outside the presence of other Sz spectrum disorders in first degree relatives of Sz probands, it may detect additional relatives with liability to schizophrenia. These are not simply cases that are a “near miss” for either schizotypal or paranoid personality disorder, since more than 92% (22/24) of these cases were 2 or more criteria below the threshold for a diagnosis of either schizotypal or paranoid personality disorder, further supporting avoidant personality disorder’s putative role as a separable Sz spectrum disorder.

Our findings are a continuation of Bleuler’s observations of the prominence of social dysfunction in Sz, referred to as autism in his writings (Bleuler, 1950). Our findings are also supportive of Gottesman’s hypothesis of the epigenetic transmission of Sz wherein the diathesis of Sz is dependent upon subtle disruptions in processes critical to forming and maintaining social relationships (Gottesman & Shields, 1982). Studies of normal social development find that these processes include being able to adroitly monitor and adjust to the demands of social relationships, which requires monitoring one’s own affective state while recognizing how this is impacting other persons. Deficiencies in these processes early in development lead to a vicious cycle, whereby children are less likely to have successful peer relations, and as a consequence have less opportunity to acquire social skills through peer interactions (Garmezy, 1987). When deficiencies in social development derive from a vulnerability to Sz, they may be represented by avoidant personality disorder

Social functioning has typically been treated as if it were a dimension independent of core Sz pathology. Level of social functioning in adults prior to onset of psychosis is one of the best predictors of level of functional adaptation after the onset of psychosis, a better predictor than type and severity of acute symptoms, and may represent a core aspect of Sz pathology (Liddle, 1987; Strauss & Carpenter, 1977). An emotional atmosphere of criticism is a risk factor for subsequent relapse of psychotic symptoms in Sz, and may be dependent upon avoidant personality disorder symptomatology (Nuechterlein et al., 1992b; Subotnik et al., 2002). The results of the present study suggest that sensitivity to criticism is associated with the liability to Sz, not just secondary to the development of a psychotic disorder. Avoidant personality symptoms may represent a core expression of vulnerability to Sz.
My cousin got unlucky I guess and developed full blown schizophrenia.

It was also at one point considered part of the same diagnoses as schizoid personality disorder until they were separated, and superficially I can see myself a lot in that disorder too especially as I've gotten older. Though AvPD does still fit fairly well. I feel like there's probably a line there in symptoms that some people straddle.

Some people heard my words and thought it meant they knew me
Truth is, I don't exist, I'm just a soundtrack to your movie
Some background figure in a story that's already scripted
And what I feel's just felt for you to hear me ****ing spit it
I jump in many different heads through these words and poems
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-18-2017, 04:59 PM
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It was also at one point considered part of the same diagnoses as schizoid personality disorder until they were separated, and superficially I can see myself a lot in that disorder too especially as I've gotten older. Though AvPD does still fit fairly well. I feel like there's probably a line there in symptoms that some people straddle.
I think we have probably discussed this before, but yeh, there will be a lot of overlap between personality disorders, AvPD, schizoid and AvPD and borderline will show a pretty big overlap.

Not sure I would actually qualify for AvPD any more though, but there is still a remarkable urge to avoid which goes way beyond the level of anxiety I can tolerate. That anxiety tolerance has risen dramatically, but the urge to avoid has to be constantly battled.

Compassion focused therapy audio, guided meditations:

https://balancedminds.com/audio/

Last edited by BeardedMessiahBob; 12-20-2017 at 09:23 AM. Reason: anxiety tolerance, not anxiety
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-18-2017, 06:26 PM
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I think we have probably discussed this before, but yeh, there will be a lot of overlap between personality disorders, AvPD, schizoid and AvPD and borderline will show a pretty big overlap.

Not sure I would actually qualify for AvPD any more though, but there is still a remarkable urge to avoid which goes way beyond the level of anxiety I can tolerate. That anxiety has risen dramatically, but the urge to avoid has to be constantly battled.
yeah I think we have, and yeah they do overlap a lot. Probably most of them and then a few other neurological conditions that aren't personality disorders overlap with each other + some personality disorders too.

It's a bit disturbing I guess that a significant chunk of the dsm is co-morbid with a significant chunk of the dsm.

Some people heard my words and thought it meant they knew me
Truth is, I don't exist, I'm just a soundtrack to your movie
Some background figure in a story that's already scripted
And what I feel's just felt for you to hear me ****ing spit it
I jump in many different heads through these words and poems
Always hoping maybe the next leap'll be my leap home

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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-18-2017, 06:29 PM
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@Persephone The Dread no indeed, doesn't inspire that much confidence . In my latest blog post I definitely qualify for 3 borderline traits, obviously qualified for a bunch of AvPD and was pretty sure I used to be schizoid. I definitely have OCD, probably some GAD, seasonal depression, and so on.

It might just be that a number of us are simultaneously ****ed in lots of different mental health orifices though. (in my case most of those ****ings are nothing more than the occasional fingering, though).

Compassion focused therapy audio, guided meditations:

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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-18-2017, 08:32 PM
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@Persephone The Dread no indeed, doesn't inspire that much confidence . In my latest blog post I definitely qualify for 3 borderline traits, obviously qualified for a bunch of AvPD and was pretty sure I used to be schizoid. I definitely have OCD, probably some GAD, seasonal depression, and so on.

It might just be that a number of us are simultaneously ****ed in lots of different mental health orifices though. (in my case most of those ****ings are nothing more than the occasional fingering, though).
Yeah I think so.

I don't like to list it all out usually for reasons that will become clear now that I'm going to try. I either fit or partially fit:

autism spectrum disorder, BPD, SPD, AvPD (and social phobia, but might as well just say AvPD and cut one out,) some GAD, ADHD, CDD, though it's still debated as to whether it's ADHD or not and not included in dsm etc trichitillomania, dermatillomania, other behavioral addictions that I don't think are in there yet (but I may be wrong, and I know they've been considering a bunch,) some kind of paraphilic/sexual condition that's not mentioned in the DSM and I'm not satisfied with the sexologists who encountered it 20-30 years ago's take on it (and even less satisfied now with recent developments,) gender dysphoria that seems to mostly come from the former, another peculiar thing that's recently been described for the first time in research and as a paraphilia but isn't in the dsm, other paraphilic/fetishistic interests that probably don't meet the criteria for a paraphilic disorders, possibly some kind of depressive or mood disorder, dyspraxia, and I have some mild schizotypal PD symptoms.

I have mild sensory processing issues, emotional dysregulation, depersonalization/derealization in response to anxiety/stress/certain degrees of isolation, and executive dysfunction but they're not actual disorders but shared among disorders.

Some people heard my words and thought it meant they knew me
Truth is, I don't exist, I'm just a soundtrack to your movie
Some background figure in a story that's already scripted
And what I feel's just felt for you to hear me ****ing spit it
I jump in many different heads through these words and poems
Always hoping maybe the next leap'll be my leap home

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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-19-2017, 02:08 PM
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Here's an article in Mad in America that shows what a joke the psychiatric diagnosis is. In the article it's explained about inter-rater reliability. Inter-rater reliability is measured by a statistic called a kappa score. A score of 1 means perfect inter-rater agreement; a score of 0 indicates zero agreement. In psychosocial research a kappa score of 0.7 or above is generally considered good. Only one DSM-5 “diagnosis” was higher than 0.7 in the field trials. This was major neurocognitive disorder (essentially dementia). Major depressive disorder was 0.32; antisocial personality disorder was 0.22; obsessive compulsive disorder was 0.31; and so on. Even schizophrenia, the flagship “diagnosis,” scored only 0.46.

https://www.madinamerica.com/2013/03...e-a-nose-dive/

And you can see that the reliability of the diagnosis has been getting LOWER every time they publish a new DSM - that's because they keep creating new 'disorders'. That's right - they don't discover mental illnesses, they create them. They just decide by voting if some behavior is a mental illness. It used to be that homosexuality was a mental illness, but because of political backlash they changed that. But now if you argue too much with a sibling you have sibling rivalry disorder.

See the book Saving Normal: An Insider's Revolt Against Out-of-Control Psychiatric Diagnosis, DSM-5, Big Pharma, and the Medicalization of Ordinary Life by psychiatrist Allen Frances, M.D.

Also read The Book of Woe by Gary Greenberg. One of Greenberg’s arguments is that none of the disorders in any of the editions of the DSM are real. Psychiatric diagnoses are constructs which group people according to a range of common symptoms. The counting and naming of everything from personality traits to mental disorders “are all reifications”
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Here's an article in Mad in America that shows what a joke the psychiatric diagnosis is. In the article it's explained about inter-rater reliability. Inter-rater reliability is measured by a statistic called a kappa score. A score of 1 means perfect inter-rater agreement; a score of 0 indicates zero agreement. In psychosocial research a kappa score of 0.7 or above is generally considered good. Only one DSM-5 “diagnosis” was higher than 0.7 in the field trials. This was major neurocognitive disorder (essentially dementia). Major depressive disorder was 0.32; antisocial personality disorder was 0.22; obsessive compulsive disorder was 0.31; and so on. Even schizophrenia, the flagship “diagnosis,” scored only 0.46.

https://www.madinamerica.com/2013/03...e-a-nose-dive/

And you can see that the reliability of the diagnosis has been getting LOWER every time they publish a new DSM - that's because they keep creating new 'disorders'. That's right - they don't discover mental illnesses, they create them. They just decide by voting if some behavior is a mental illness. It used to be that homosexuality was a mental illness, but because of political backlash they changed that. But now if you argue too much with a sibling you have sibling rivalry disorder.

See the book Saving Normal: An Insider's Revolt Against Out-of-Control Psychiatric Diagnosis, DSM-5, Big Pharma, and the Medicalization of Ordinary Life by psychiatrist Allen Frances, M.D.

Also read The Book of Woe by Gary Greenberg. One of Greenberg’s arguments is that none of the disorders in any of the editions of the DSM are real. Psychiatric diagnoses are constructs which group people according to a range of common symptoms. The counting and naming of everything from personality traits to mental disorders “are all reifications”
Yes this is true, you have a disorder if you have abnormal psychology that doesn't allow you to fit in adequately with society and this is largely genetic/innate and unchangeable though you can mitigate the impact of some symptoms like excessive anxiety in some cases. Occasionally they will also make allowances for some things that are less common (like homosexuality.) Having said that, if your psychology is causing you personal issues it is a problem. Just because psychology is still in the dark ages, doesn't change that fact.

...Is sibling rivalry disorder actually in the DSM or ICD lmfao?

Some people heard my words and thought it meant they knew me
Truth is, I don't exist, I'm just a soundtrack to your movie
Some background figure in a story that's already scripted
And what I feel's just felt for you to hear me ****ing spit it
I jump in many different heads through these words and poems
Always hoping maybe the next leap'll be my leap home

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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-19-2017, 11:32 PM
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Hi,
I think I might have an Avoidant personality disorder, I know self-diagnosis is not the way to go, but it just 100% matches me and I am going to see a Therapist anyway who will most likely confirm.
I was just wondering if any of you are dealing with this disorder and If you did therapy? If yes, did it help, what can I expect?
Thanks!
I'm self-diagnosed and I didn't have therapy.

In my late teens and early 20s I basically didn't talk to anyone, including my parents. I always felt like other people didn't want me around, and that they were always judging me, so I stayed away from them. Over the years I started to test the automatic negative assumptions about how people perceived me. I found that in the vast majority of cases they weren't true.

These days I'm quite sociable, although I still find it difficult trying to keep in touch with people. I still feel like I'm a nuisance when doing that. But face-to-face I don't have a problem, unless I'm in a large group. I can't seem to handle all the interactions that are happening in those situations.
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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-20-2017, 12:39 AM
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I've been diagnosed with it by a psychiatrist, and I'm also in therapy. My current psychologist primarily uses ACT, which is good because I personally have connected with that type of therapy the most in the past. We use it for depression/SAD too which I relapsed with and am working on it again, but it'll be the same methods dealing with both. It definitely helped me significantly, as long as I committed to it as best I could rather than just making false promises.
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-20-2017, 06:35 AM
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Yes this is true, you have a disorder if you have abnormal psychology that doesn't allow you to fit in adequately with society and this is largely genetic/innate and unchangeable though you can mitigate the impact of some symptoms like excessive anxiety in some cases. Occasionally they will also make allowances for some things that are less common (like homosexuality.) Having said that, if your psychology is causing you personal issues it is a problem. Just because psychology is still in the dark ages, doesn't change that fact.

...Is sibling rivalry disorder actually in the DSM or ICD lmfao?
V61.8 Sibling Relational problem

https://books.google.com/books?id=02...roblem&f=false

So "you have a disorder if you have abnormal psychology that doesn't allow you to fit in adequately with society". Basically meaning thoughts are an illness or disorder? Doesn't that make psychiatry a tool of an oppressive government?
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-20-2017, 08:46 AM
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V61.8 Sibling Relational problem

https://books.google.com/books?id=02...roblem&f=false

So "you have a disorder if you have abnormal psychology that doesn't allow you to fit in adequately with society". Basically meaning thoughts are an illness or disorder? Doesn't that make psychiatry a tool of an oppressive government?
That often doesn't apply. Human psychology causes people to ostracise others, and also causes people to want to fit in somewhere, make connections, have a reasonable degree of control over their own mind. Has nothing to do with the government, would happen either way because of how people are.

Some people heard my words and thought it meant they knew me
Truth is, I don't exist, I'm just a soundtrack to your movie
Some background figure in a story that's already scripted
And what I feel's just felt for you to hear me ****ing spit it
I jump in many different heads through these words and poems
Always hoping maybe the next leap'll be my leap home

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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-20-2017, 09:25 AM
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That often doesn't apply. Human psychology causes people to ostracise others, and also causes people to want to fit in somewhere, make connections, have a reasonable degree of control over their own mind. Has nothing to do with the government, would happen either way because of how people are.
There's a difference between being socially shunned and being imprisoned. Plus in the psych hospitals they torture people with 'medications'. Governments frequently use psychiatry to imprison people whose ideas they don't like.
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