Why is Hollywood putting Wokeness above fanbase deman in STAR WARS ? - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #1 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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Why is Hollywood putting Wokeness above fanbase deman in STAR WARS ?



It really amazes me how these studios keep taking these high action previously male oriented franchises...inject women into them...proceed to insults the fanboys ..... and seriously expect the market to double just because.

It's like the studio just don't understand how demographics work. Certain ideas are more appealing to certain people, and there is nothing wrong with that.

It's not that there are not female nerds and geeks out there....but its just not to the same extent. The Superhero genre, big actions movies etc...are not usually as heavily followed by women.

It's not just a case of "I know a woman who knows more about Star Wars than I do" it's a case of ..are there enough women dedicated to shelling out serious money to support the Star Wars industry...if you remove all the male fanbase ?

That's like...if for the sake of diversity...Hollywood started mass producing LGBTq style Romance movies, whilst simultaneously insulting the female heterosexual fanbase all during the promotion of the movies; ....yes they may get a few more LGBTq ticket sales...but it would not offset the loss of the hetero-female fanbase.

Get Woke go broke. It's entertainment...you have to give the people what they like....not what you think they should like that is not how entertainment works.

It's like what another Star Wars fan said...how are you going to convince young boys to buy Star Wars action figures when all the characters are female ? ...And who is to say that making the characters females means little girls are suddenly going to stop buying Barbie and start buying star wars toys ??

What ...you think if half of the transformers in the next movie were female robots...the toy sales will automatically double


PS I am not even a Star Wars fan myself...I am not a business major either...but from the Time I saw the Force Awakens I could see this fail coming from a mile away
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post #2 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 01:15 AM
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I agree to an extent. That studios trying to draw in a more general audience by making things more generic, rather than respecting the original fan base, may devalue a franchise. Because studio executives have never understood what makes something appeal to people, which is why films that have a lot of studio interference generally flop. Business people (and ideologues) should stay out of creative decisions for films that are already established for a particular audience.


However, there's nothing wrong with adding female characters, as long as they are unique characters, as opposed to carbon copies of male characters, or simply changing a male character to a female one. (There are exceptions however, like Starbuck in Battlestar Galactica, who I think worked very well.) I'm a Star Wars fan and, out of the main characters of the three trilogies and two spin-offs (Anakin, Luke, Rey, Jyn Erso and Han), Jyn Erso is my favourite.
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post #3 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 01:17 AM
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The decline may be unrelated. If there is a general push atm towards more female focused leading roles in films, its likely a reflection of what the audience wants. It might just be that the new films are ****. (which they are, but the old ones were too, tbh).

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post #4 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 01:47 AM
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Star Wars has had female roles since the '90s. That was years before fragile men got offended by things like that.

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post #5 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 03:27 AM
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Can't really complain, I really prefer Daisy Ridley's Rey over Luke Skywalker for example. Ridley is much better actor and Rey has more mysterious/interesting background. I do think that Ridley is maybe slightly "too" good looking for the role, I mean she is being portrayed as so flawless physically, no scars or anything.

I'm sorry, but since these films really are not cinematic masterpieces, it looks like disappointed Star Wars fans are looking for all kinds of excuses like "It's because there's wahmen!" "It's because that Asian girl was casted!". Lot of young fragile men out there in our generation, but it didn't start because "they" started to put women into movies, since it has been happening since the 60's.
Sorry being a douche and pulling out the incel card again, but there are these people who think everything is about the leftist jewish feminist conspiracy to take down the men.

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It's like the studio just don't understand how demographics work. Certain ideas are more appealing to certain people, and there is nothing wrong with that.
But the only difference here really is just the gender? Rey is being the hero like in any male oriented film. She is not portrayed like the character in a female oriented romance film, so the only "insult" to fanboys is that shes a woman?
Not that it would be an argument, but I personally have always preferred female characters in films and video games and saying this out loud always receives a backlash and my sexuality and gender identity is always questioned, so there are some sort of "male fragility" out there. I find it odd, that some (men) need to have a hero, same gender as themselves in order to "understand" the character and have the peace of mind or something. Is it really natural for boys to play with male figures or is it that they get bullied if they don't?

Wait! They added women into Batman series in the 60's? Women beating grown *** men? Catwomans ethnicity turned black?! Boys in the 60's must've had a really crushed male identity How did they even survive without the ability to whine in youtube?

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post #6 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 06:08 AM
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The budgets for these movies are reaching around $300Million, no additions or changes are being made unless it's certain the final product will bring a return on investment, movies are becoming "woke" because that's what the market is calling for. Movies are a for-profit businesses just like anything else, pleasing the largest audience is the goal.

As for the movies not being as good any more (I'm assuming is the case) the larger the budget the more generic the movie is going to be, no large film production company is going to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into a movie that doesn't follow a proven formulaic script, think about small indie films that have creative and unique story lines like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, that was around $20Million, the script was risky so it received a tiny budget. If a movie is given a $300Million budget you can expect to be blown away by the CG, cast, music, etc but as far as the story it's going to be safe and molded to appeal to a large audience.
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post #7 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 06:28 AM
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The budgets for these movies are reaching around $300Million, no fundamental additions are being made unless it's certain the final product will bring a return on investment, movies are becoming "woke" because that's what the market is calling for. Movies are a for-profit businesses just like anything else, pleasing the largest audience is the goal.

As for the movies not being as good any more (I'm assuming is the case) the larger the budget the more generic the movie is going to be, no large film production company is going to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into a movie that doesn't follow a proven formulaic script, think about small indie films that have creative and unique story lines like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, that was around $20Million, the script was risky so it received a tiny budget. If a movie is given a $300Million budget you can expect to be blown away by the CG, cast, music, etc but as far as the story it's going to be safe and molded to appeal to a large audience.
All of this. Large budget films are going to be aimed at the middle of the normal distrubution curve kinda people. This is going to result in absolute, safe, boring blurgh.

Also I can't think of any time I have even noticed the sex of leading actors in films. I watched those new Star Wars films, and if you asked me my opinion, I would just say they were kinda boring. I wouldn't have said anything about the sex of the actors, because I wouldn't know exactly what it was I should have noticed. I think there was a young woman in it somewhere?

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post #8 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by SplendidBob View Post
All of this. Large budget films are going to be aimed at the middle of the normal distrubution curve kinda people. This is going to result in absolute, safe, boring blurgh.

Also I can't think of any time I have even noticed the sex of leading actors in films. I watched those new Star Wars films, and if you asked me my opinion, I would just say they were kinda boring. I wouldn't have said anything about the sex of the actors, because I wouldn't know exactly what it was I should have noticed. I think there was a young woman in it somewhere?
It reminds me of when major record labels were the gatekeepers of music back in the day, when a band like Pearl Jam proved to be extremely profitable then for like the next decade we were given a ton of Pearl Jam knock offs like Creed, Nickel Back, Three Doors Down, etc, they got huge budgets to record with as long as they kept sounding like what was proven to be profitable at the time, and bands that were more experimental and risky were given s*** budgets, that is if they were even picked up. Luckily with the internet and affordable recording software we don't really have the major labels as gatekeepers of creativity anymore, just whatever sounds good will rise to the top online.

Almost as if having wealthy people at the top owning the 'means of production' and demanding the largest profit margin possible isn't required for good products to be made and in some cases...makes things worse.
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post #9 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 09:45 AM
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The guy in the video said "the franchise was geared towards boys". No, that's not what it was. The movie (1977) itself wasn't directed towards any gender. It was a standard "fable" with heroes and villains, youth and age, monsters and magic. No different than "The Wizard of OZ", with Dorothy as a very believable hero just as much as Luke Skywalker was.

It was actually Kenner, and the toy marketers that made it appeal to boys. and the Star Wars slump is based from that merchandising, because they made the general public expectant on boys' sales and interests. Now, because the movies are so female-led, the merchandize sale (because it was so geared to boys) is low. It's really the marketing that screwed up.

However that doesn't excuse the terrible storytelling and movie-making. The public has gotten burned too many times on Star Wars, and to top it off, the boys don't care for the merchandise. Lose-lose.

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post #10 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 10:11 AM
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What the?! Star Wars proved that women could be heroes, too. I would think it was more about equality - kinda like Star Trek.


I am still trying to figure out what "woke" means.

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post #11 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 10:42 AM
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I don't know why anyone really bothers to watch movies anymore, TBH. Movies were great back when people had nothing better to do and literally nothing was going on anywhere . In the 80s it made sense for people to watch movies in their spare time. It just doesn't make sense anymore. Reality is more interesting than fiction now.

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post #12 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 10:59 AM
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I don't know why anyone really bothers to watch movies anymore, TBH. Movies were great back when people had nothing better to do and literally nothing was going on anywhere . In the 80s it made sense for people to watch movies in their spare time. It just doesn't make sense anymore. Reality is more interesting than fiction now.
Are you not interested in any tv shows though? I haven't felt the need to go to a theater in a long time, but I still love certain shows, Black Mirror, Boardwalk Empire, Breaking Bad.
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post #13 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 11:29 AM
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Honestly, I think the popularity of Star Wars is fading. There's just a lot more competition for people's time, and attention these days. Not just in media, but all around. Plus, I'd argue that Star Wars has produced mostly mediocre films in past twenty or so years. That's not helping the franchise either.

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post #14 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 11:46 AM
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Are you not interested in any tv shows though? I haven't felt the need to go to a theater in a long time, but I still love certain shows, Black Mirror, Boardwalk Empire, Breaking Bad.
Nope. I don't have cable anymore anyway and I'm not paying for Netflix when I have Youtube for free. There are probably nonfiction things on Netflix that I can't really get on Youtube for free that I'd like to have but it's not worth paying for. Well, not when you're unemployed it isn't.

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post #15 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 11:50 AM
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Honestly, I think the popularity of Star Wars is fading. There's just a lot more competition for people's time, and attention these days. Not just in media, but all around. Plus, I'd argue that Star Wars has produced mostly mediocre films in past twenty or so years. That's not helping the franchise either.
That could be true, especially if the storyline and quality deviates from the original.

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post #16 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 12:03 PM
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The hardcore fans didn't really like the prequels so I don't think anyone really cares about that.

They'll stop doing whatever they happen to be doing if it no longer gets them money, pretty simple really. It's the answer to why Hollywood ever do anything.

Superheroes = money

the woke stuff™ = money

cinnamon roll Spider Man = money (I watched this recently so it will make its way into many of my posts. Edit for the 64th time: A lot of money apparently.)

the gays gotta eat too man. It's pink capitalism.

(I didn't actually read what element of wokeness was annoying you, I might read the OP later.)

The good thing about the new Star Wars is the world/environments. I like the Iceland is space trope too. It's great because Björk is really an alien.

Anyway this is one time where the wokeness is never going to be the worst thing, because the writers can't decide what they're even doing with the plot anyway. Half the plot threads amounted to nothing in the last film. I don't remember it well though, probably blocked it out.

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It's like the studio just don't understand how demographics work. Certain ideas are more appealing to certain people, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Oh no they know perfectly well, women are bigger consumers than men. And Western nerds (a niche demographic of men who will spend money,) have been slowly moving onto anime/Japanese stuff for some time now.

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post #17 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 12:30 PM
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That's like...if for the sake of diversity...Hollywood started mass producing LGBTq style Romance movies, whilst simultaneously insulting the female heterosexual fanbase all during the promotion of the movies; ....yes they may get a few more LGBTq ticket sales...but it would not offset the loss of the hetero-female fanbase.
How are they insulting males in the fanbase? Besides writing poor scripts but that doesn't have to do with the sex of the characters really does it?

I think a lot of heterowomen (and I use the definition of hetero tentatively,) would really like the LGBTq (why is the q small REEE,) stuff, at least if it was gay male. They'll bring back all the fujoshi's who left for anime. I mean marvel helps because lots of gay/queerbait potential there, and of course you have Good Omens now which is a big thing for my people (it's almost like the writers intended it, it's too perfect bait.) The weird queer/het girl/transmasc demon/angel good/evil cinnamon roll fan people.

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Sorry I'm ****posting all over your thread I have to be honest I just don't care the bottom line is Hollywood will do what gets them money, and they're not big on risks anymore.

(this thread is actually hilarious because you seem to have a cultural awareness that is stuck in the 80s where certain things are male nerd hobbies. It's like when I was growing up pretty much everyone played video games on the playstation, everyone watched The Star Wars prequels etc, I've come across as many if not more female people who played Runescape as males, everyone watched the Spiderman films from the early 2000s, The Matrix films, The Lord of The Rings, it's just carried on from there. Lots of nerd stuff is gender neutral among nerds and lots of nerd stuff isn't nerd stuff anymore it's become popular culture.)

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post #18 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by WillYouStopDave View Post
I don't know why anyone really bothers to watch movies anymore, TBH. Movies were great back when people had nothing better to do and literally nothing was going on anywhere . In the 80s it made sense for people to watch movies in their spare time. It just doesn't make sense anymore. Reality is more interesting than fiction now.
I think people have a stronger desire to escape reality than ever before they just have lots of different ways of doing it now with the internet and video games.

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post #19 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by WillYouStopDave View Post
I don't know why anyone really bothers to watch movies anymore, TBH. Movies were great back when people had nothing better to do and literally nothing was going on anywhere . In the 80s it made sense for people to watch movies in their spare time. It just doesn't make sense anymore. Reality is more interesting than fiction now.
... Alrighty then.
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post #20 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 01:49 PM
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Whenever someone brings up Barbies now all I can think about is the orgies and sex stuff.

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My barbies and Kens had so much sex... I'm a bit disturbed looking back.
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I didn't even have a Ken because my parents didn't want me having a boy doll. I just chopped off the hair of one of my other Barbies and made them have sex with each other.
I did this too...they were the ones I just thought were most ugly and so I cut their hair off.
My most early versions of sex was putting them in a plastic bin and shaking really hard.
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Made my Barbies have wild amounts of sex with Simba because I didn't have any Ken dolls.
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My mother wouldn't buy me any Ken dolls, so all my Barbies became lesbians. When my dad finally caved and bought me a Ken (without mom's approval) they began exploring their bisexuality, but Ken was always sort of the FWB instead of the main squeeze.

Interestingly, my Jem dolls always seemed rather masculine to me, so before I even knew what trans was, they were clearly men presenting as women. Or sometimes they were intersex. And they had relationships with Barbies, married them, etc.
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I remember one time, I was playing Barbies by myself. I was dolling her up (I forget her name) and doing her hair. She was talking to one of her friends and said, "I'm going to have sex with him at the drive-in!" My mom heard me and I got in a lot of trouble.

My Barbies were always having sex.
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I used pens to give my dolls black lips and eyeshadow. I chopped their hair off and pulled of their heads. I would put sewing needles threw their heads. I completely abused my barbies, but for some reason people bought me them.

I did have a dentist Barbie, and I actually used her to check on my Power Ranger's and other fun toys teeth. I had a lot of fun using my ballerina Barbie. I also had a Sailor Moon Barbie (not actual brand, but close enough) and she was also taken care of. He enjoyed the Power Rangers.
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I did their hair nice and then chopped off their heads. In that order.
I'm a very non-violent person now, I swear.
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I also remember bringing my barbies to a friend's house and her making them all have sex with each other. That weirded me right out haha...
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I made Lego forts and put my dolls and action figures in the forts and shot it with rubber bands until I could hit all the dolls/figures.
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I had a couple mini-bratz dolls- a boy and a girl. usually the girl was sick and the boy would have to take care of her. sometimes they'd swap clothes. I remember my parents being upset about that and me brushing it off.
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And yeah, my dolls had sex - with a headless Ken.
You had the headless Ken problem too!
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Oh, boy did they have sex. I recreated a lot of original Degrassi storylines and some Days of Our Lives. The best part was a super fundamental Christian family moved to my town and I made their sheltered daughter go along with my depraved dollies. Then they caught on and I didn't get to go over there much any more.
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I didn't like baby dolls at all. Seriously I've never played Mommy in my life, I think I'm just not wired that way.

All of my Barbie dolls were very promiscuous with each other. I only had one Ken doll (the shaving one! so he had a beard because I thought that was way better and I also lost the sponge "razor" lol) and the two Barbies would fight over him and sometimes end up kissing each other instead.
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I didn't make them have sex, but there were some pretty hardcore makeout sessions. I also cut all of their hair off.
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I feel like the only person whose dollies didn't get laid XD!

I stopped playing with dolls around the time I started to get really weird on a sexual level eg: puberty time. There was some weird stuff I have vague memories of towards the tail end of childhood, but most stuff like that happened in The Sims instead. I downloaded 18+ mods.

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