What's your score? - Social Anxiety Forum
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-10-2019, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
occasionally lesbian NRx
 
Persephone The Dread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I've come to burn your kingdom down one ****post at a time
Language: Eng (UK,) 下手な日本語
Posts: 36,704

What's your score?


https://neweconomics.org/2018/07/whats-your-score

Quote:
In China, a new system using data from public and private sources aims to score every citizen according to their ​‘trustworthiness’ by 2020. Cheating on a video game could lower your score. Buying a lot of nappies could give you extra points. This number determines whether you can buy plane tickets, how long you wait to see a doctor, the cost of your electricity bills and your visibility on online dating sites.

Across Europe and the US, people are shocked by this dystopian IT-backed authoritarianism. But citizens of these countries are already being scored by systems based on the same logic – they just haven’t noticed.

Public debate in the UK on ​‘datafication’ has been overwhelmingly concerned with individual privacy and the protection of personal data. Understandably, a lot of people don’t really care, feeling they have ​‘nothing to hide.’ We should care. But for this to happen, public debate needs to shift focus to the ways our digital footprint is used to produce scoring systems that shape our lives.

Similar to Chinese ​‘social score’, these algorithms rank and rate every member of society to determine what we get access to and the condition of that access: from sorting job applications and allocating social services to deciding who sees advertisements for housing and products. They decide whether you are a ​“desirable employee, reliable tenant, valuable customer — or a deadbeat, shirker, menace, and waste of time”.

The current trend in the corporate sharing economy has been to promote the democratising potential of access to goods and services over ownership.The actual impact of this shift has in fact been to make conditional access to private property the norm, amplifying wealth inequalities. At the same time, in the public sector, an obsession with ​‘innovative’ automated decision-making has reframed access to rights and resources (like housing or healthcare) as an issue of efficient allocation rather than fairness or justice.

Credit scoring has always ranked and rated citizens based on their consumer behaviour. But ​‘fintech’ (financial technology) is now pioneering the use of ​‘alternative data’ to reflect individuals’ ​‘true’ personality. With tools like Tala, whether you organise your phone contacts by their first and last names, and or call your mother regularly will generate a score that could dictate your eligibility for a loan. Other startups like the insurance company Kin are looking to use Internet of Things devices in people’s homes to price their home insurance, for example using water sensors to detect leaks.

The same systems are creeping into the rental sector, with the advent of ​‘proptech’. Desiree Fields has shown how the financialisation of the rental sector has resulted in new software platforms for private equity firms like Blackstone to manage massive portfolios of geographically dispersed homes. These technologies have gamified the tenant’s experience of renting by automating everything from maintenance requests and rent payments to evictions.

INCENTCO offers a platform through which tenants who consistently act in a way aligns with landlords’ interests (such as paying rent on time) they can build up enough points to get rewards, like new appliances, smart home technologies and general home upgrades. This automated system has worrying ramifications: if you are a single mother working on a zero-hours contract whose shift is cancelled and who unexpectedly has to pay for her kid to go to the dentist — tough. Now your score is too low to get a new fridge.

A number of new apps such as Canopy have developed similar ​‘RentPassport’ features, allowing users to demonstrate their ​‘financial prudence’, building up a ​‘reliability score’ over years of renting that informs their credit scores.

The power of algorithms to make decisions about our lives is also growing in the public sector. In Automating Inequality, Virginia Eubanks exposes how governments and local authorities are increasingly using digital tools to determine which families most deserve support. This comes as more and more people are living in poverty while less resources are allocated to help them under austerity.

In the US, algorithms have replaced nurses in determining how many hours of home care visits a patient is entitled to. In some places, funding dropped by as much as 42% as a result and when service users tried to understand why their hours had been cut, the state refused to share the algorithm’s decision-making process. Similar calculations sift through survey data to create a ranking of ​‘deservingness’ for housing waiting lists in places like Los Angeles.

And these developments are underway in the UK in a number of sectors. These range from automated screening processes for housing benefits as 78,000 families are currently homeless or in temporary accommodation to algorithmic prediction such as Xantura’s ​‘Early Help Profiling System’ to determine which children are at risk of abuse. While some councils develop systems in-house using their own data sets, there is also a trend towards partnering with private companies to acquire tools that incorporate other kinds of data.

Experian, who are leading the way in the use of alternative data for credit scores, now also offer to ​“help the public sector make better decisions”. An investigation by Big Brother Watch in Durham revealed that the police were using Experian’s services to make custody decisions. The company’s ​‘Mosaic’ system ranks individuals and households according to crude and offensive stereotypes, from ​‘disconnected youth’ (‘avid texters’ with ​‘low wages’ and names like ​‘Liam’ or ​‘Chelsea’) to ​‘crowded kaleidoscope’ (‘multicultural’ families in ​‘cramped’ flats with name like ​‘Abdi’ and ​‘Asha’) and ​‘penthouse chic’ (young professionals on ​‘astronomical salaries’ who drink a lot of champagne).

On top of deciding who gets to access basic public services, algorithms are being developed to decide who gets citizenship. Trump’s ​‘extreme vetting initiative’ in the US would use available data to predict the chances of a visa applicant’s likelihood to become a terrorist versus a contributing member of society.

Algorithms with no accountability are dividing society up into ​‘haves’ and ​‘have-nots’. Seemingly innocuous data on location or patterns of behaviour and consumption used to assess an individual’s ​‘reliability’ also function as proxies for gender, race and class. The result is that these scores end up amplifying existing social inequalities.

These scoring systems are often described as ​‘black boxes’. It’s almost impossible to find out how they work because they are run by private companies (often delivering services for the state) and therefore their inner workings qualify as ​‘trade secrets’. Even when algorithms are made public, their overwhelming complexity and scale often make them almost impossible to understand.

If these algorithms can’t be seen or understood, how can we assign responsibility for harm when they produce discriminatory outcomes?

This emphasis on ​‘smart’ and ​‘efficient’ technological solutions to social problems obscures the political choices that produce them. Virginia Eubanks puts it best when she says that we outsource these inhuman choices to machines ​“because they are too difficult for us…we know there is no ethical way to prioritize one life over the next”.
Persephone The Dread is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-10-2019, 10:19 AM
SAS Member
 
Micronian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Gender: Male
Age: 39
Posts: 3,748
yeah, this is the next step in the surveillance state. it isn't limited to one country though.

If there is going to be a definitive war, one that causes the next paradigm shift, it won't be a war between US and Russia, or China, or whatever; it's going to be a large mass of people against this type of oppression.

"I might be great tomorrow, but hopeless yesterday"
Micronian is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-10-2019, 10:48 AM
Not A Low Calorie Food
 
WillYouStopDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: United States
Gender: Male
Age: 46
Posts: 28,283
My Mood: Relaxed
I guess now we know why they really put the orange clown up there.

/WYSD
WillYouStopDave is offline  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 02:42 AM
dumb fantasy
 
unemployment simulator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: bn2
Language: rambling
Posts: 2,901
It's pretty disturbing isn't it. The "nothing to hide" argument some people make is ridiculous, it completely ignores the principle of basic privacy. Removing human decision making and leaving it to a computer is such a bad thing to do when dealing with society, it affects people on every level. There are times when you just need a human to help you out and how a small change there can make a big difference. Can't say I didn't see this coming, global megacorps now govern a lot of the services of a community, and have destroyed local or family based services that serves as part of the community, leading to decision making that may as well be made by a computer as they are so bureaucratic. need a bit of help with something that doesn't cost much at all? Sorry, computer says no. Things never used to be like this. It's amazing with all this tech we seem to be going backwards in how we deal with people's concerns.
You can't manage individuals with a system designed to manage a uniform collective. It's basic short sightedness. But I don't think any of these businesses even care, profit over people, they all become corrupt.
Posted via Mobile Device
unemployment simulator is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 10:18 PM
SAS Member
 
Lyssia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: USA
Gender: Female
Age: 35
Posts: 184
My Mood: Sleepy
We’re all in serious trouble.
But I think the ‘end’ is getting close- economic collapse, pandemic, particle accelerator creating a black whole in earth... or something like.

It'll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls, for the times they are a changing.
Lyssia is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 01:05 AM
monk
 
andy1984's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: chch
Language: english, silence
Gender: Non-binary
Age: 35
Posts: 6,590
My Mood: Amazed
I dont actually find it disturbing. if anything it sounds a bit better than how things are now.

"I take what is mine. I pay the iron price."
―Balon Greyjoy
andy1984 is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 02:39 AM
Not A Low Calorie Food
 
WillYouStopDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: United States
Gender: Male
Age: 46
Posts: 28,283
My Mood: Relaxed
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy1984 View Post
I dont actually find it disturbing. if anything it sounds a bit better than how things are now.
That's disturbing, Andy.

/WYSD
WillYouStopDave is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 07:24 AM Thread Starter
occasionally lesbian NRx
 
Persephone The Dread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I've come to burn your kingdom down one ****post at a time
Language: Eng (UK,) 下手な日本語
Posts: 36,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy1984 View Post
I dont actually find it disturbing. if anything it sounds a bit better than how things are now.
lol yeah, when there's no transparency, and companies are clearly not prioritising profit over people already /s


Think about cultural developments in most of the developed world over the last 10 years in particular since 2014~ then think of the timeline of these businesses and what they've been doing:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...os-run-rampant

Quote:
Yonatan Zunger, a privacy engineer at Google, recalled a suggestion he made to YouTube staff before he left the company in 2016. He proposed a third tier: Videos that were allowed to stay on YouTube, but, because they were “close to the line” of the takedown policy, would be removed from recommendations. “Bad actors quickly get very good at understanding where the bright lines are and skating as close to those lines as possible,” Zunger said.

His proposal, which went to the head of YouTube policy, was turned down. “I can say with a lot of confidence that they were deeply wrong,” he said.

Rather than revamp its recommendation engine, YouTube doubled down. The neural network described in the 2016 research went into effect in YouTube recommendations starting in 2015. By the measures available, it has achieved its goal of keeping people on YouTube.
Quote:
He was reminded of that episode recently, when videos sermonizing about the so-called perils of vaccinations began spreading on YouTube. That, he thought, would have been a no-brainer back in the earlier days. “We would have severely restricted them or banned them entirely,” Schaffer said. “YouTube should never have allowed dangerous conspiracy theories to become such a dominant part of the platform’s culture.”

Somewhere along the last decade, he added, YouTube prioritized chasing profits over the safety of its users. “We may have been hemorrhaging money,” he said. “But at least dogs riding skateboards never killed anyone.”
There are famous relatively intelligent people openly admitting online that they won't vaccinate their kids now. People get angry with them but they should be getting mad about the corporations engineering this. The vaccination thing alone has already had a significant negative effect on society, because people are stupid sheeple. Some of the most popular YouTubers are pro-flat Earth theory. It's not just like some retard in nowhereville anymore.
Persephone The Dread is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 01:18 PM
SAS Member
 
Micronian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Gender: Male
Age: 39
Posts: 3,748
It's a case of complete lack of trust. You could even call it a sociological phenomenon the way humans are scurrying around youtube putting up, taking down, creating rules, creating software, due to videos that in their heart show a distrust of the institutions.


I guarantee that when real trust gets re-kindled, you'll see less and less of these opinions.

"I might be great tomorrow, but hopeless yesterday"
Micronian is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 02:10 PM
monk
 
andy1984's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: chch
Language: english, silence
Gender: Non-binary
Age: 35
Posts: 6,590
My Mood: Amazed
I mean there needs to be some lever to guide/"control" people. societal control has broken down in so many ways due to so much happening online, through uncontrolled avenues.

government is meant to govern, we're not supposed to follow the market blindly.

"I take what is mine. I pay the iron price."
―Balon Greyjoy
andy1984 is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 06:38 AM
Gone and not returning.
 
Owlbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy1984 View Post
I mean there needs to be some lever to guide/"control" people. societal control has broken down in so many ways due to so much happening online, through uncontrolled avenues.

government is meant to govern, we're not supposed to follow the market blindly.
People in government are just as emotionally driven, corrupt, etc as your average person. Safeguards help but family ties and self interest don't evaporate the instant you enter public sectors jobs.The person behind that lever could be your ideal human, or it could be another Trump. Something we will have no control over once that Rubicon is crossed.

I agree societal control has broken down, but that (imo) is due to a collapse of local communities due to globalization/transience/diversity. Replacing nuanced social pressure with laws results in totalitarian control by a faceless and non-accountable governing body.
Owlbear is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome