The Process of Stereotyping Needs to End, But Is That Possible? - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-27-2020, 11:29 PM Thread Starter
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The Process of Stereotyping Needs to End, But Is That Possible?


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How White Women Use Themselves as Instruments of Terror


At a time of so much death and suffering in this country and around the world from the Covid-19 pandemic, it can be easy, I suppose, to take any incidents that don’t result in death as minor occurrences.


But they aren’t. The continued public assault on black people, particularly black men, by the white public and by the police predates the pandemic and will outlast it. This racial street theater against black people is an endemic, primal feature of the Republic.


Specifically, I am enraged by white women weaponizing racial anxiety, using their white femininity to activate systems of white terror against black men. This has long been a power white women realized they had and that they exerted.


This was again evident when a white woman in New York’s Central Park told a black man, a bird-watcher, that she was going to call the police and tell them that he was threatening her life.


This was not innocent nor benign nor divorced from historical context. Throughout history, white women have used the violence of white men and the institutions these men control as their own muscle.


From the beginning, anti-black white terrorists used the defense of white women and white purity as a way to wrap violence in valor. Carnage became chivalry.


  • Thanks for reading The Times.


We often like to make white supremacy a testosterone-fueled masculine expression, but it is just as likely to wear heels as a hood.


Particularly in the post-Civil War era, when slavery had been undone, white male politicians used the fear of rape of white women by black men to codify racial terror.


As the author and scholar Rebecca Edwards has pointed out in her book “Angels in the Machinery: Gender in American Party Politics From the Civil War to the Progressive Era,” white politicians have long focused their furor by claiming to be the defenders of white women, a last guard against their suffering.


As Dr. Edwards noted, Mississippi’s James Vardaman, arguably one of the most violent racist politicians in American history, and that’s quite a feat, said in 1903, “a vote for Vardaman is a vote for white supremacy, a vote for the quelling of the arrogant spirit that has been aroused in the blacks by Roosevelt and his henchmen, … a vote for the safety of the home and the protection of our women and children.” Vardaman, who once famously said, “If it is necessary, every Negro in the state will be lynched,” won election and became governor of Mississippi.


Indeed, untold numbers of lynchings were executed because white women had claimed that a black man raped, assaulted, talked to or glanced at them.


But it goes even further than that. The Tulsa Race massacre, the destruction of Black Wall Street, was spurred by an incident between a white female elevator operator and a black man. As the Oklahoma Historical Society points out, the most common explanation is that he stepped on her toe. As many as 300 people were killed because of it.


In 1944, 14-year-old George Stinney Jr. was electrocuted for the killing of two little white girls. He was the youngest person executed in the United States in the 20th century. His trial lasted only a couple hours. There was little or no cross-examination of prosecution witnesses or calling of defense witnesses. The all-white, all-male jury deliberated for only 10 minutes before finding Stinney guilty, and he was sentenced to death.


He was just 5 feet 1 inch tall. As Laura Bradley wrote in Slate, “He weighed 95 pounds when he was arrested, and was so small he had to sit on a phone book in the electric chair when he was executed within three months of the murders.” Some say the book was in fact a Bible.


A circuit court judge threw out Stinney’s conviction in 2014.
The torture and murder of 14-year-old Emmett Till in 1955, a lynching actually, occurred because a white woman said that he “grabbed her and was menacing and sexually crude toward her.” His torturers beat him, shot him in the head and tossed his body into the Tallahatchie River tied to a cotton gin fan with barbed wire. A few years ago, the woman admitted to an author that she had lied.


Till’s lynching would serve as the big bang of the Civil Rights Movement. Indeed, when Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on that bus, she said that she was thinking of Till.


This practice, this exercise in racial extremism, has been dragged into the modern era through the weaponizing of 911, often by white women, to invoke the power and force of the police who they are fully aware are hostile to black men.


In a disturbing number of the recent cases of the police being called on black people for doing everyday, mundane things, the calls have been initiated by white women.


And understand this: Black people view calling the police on them as an act of terror, one that could threaten their lives, and this fear is not without merit.


There are too many noosed necks, charred bodies and drowned souls for these white women not to know precisely what they are doing: They are using their white femininity as an instrument of terror against black men.
Some stereotypes are obviously worse than others, but I think the primary problem is the process of stereotyping itself. Many of us gleefully cheer on stereotypes that allow us to feel superior, while becoming outraged at stereotypes we could potentially be lumped into or offends our salient cultural sensibilities.



I find the "Karen" stereotype interesting because it's not only benign compared to insulting black stereotypes, but because some in the mainstream media have come to denounce it. I don't recall them denouncing new or new-ish white male stereotypes over the last decade. But, when undesirable white women are stereotyped, well, this apparently cannot stand, except apparently when this respected columnist that's black generalizes them (It will be interesting to see what the full reaction to this column will be).



It would be far more preferable if we could transcend the need to stereotype at all. It results in sloppy thinking and promotes intolerance, prejudice, and hate. This should be obvious, right? Unfortunately, it apparently isn't to many, and I'm not sure it's possible to effectively deter the process of stereotyping. I'm not sure I can prevent myself from stereotyping others.



I don't know. What do you think of all this?

Last edited by WillYouStopDave; 05-28-2020 at 03:37 AM. Reason: Modified thread title at the request of the thread creator
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 12:52 AM
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 02:01 AM
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Eh it's obvious that they're having a moment with white women like the white women extinction button meme, the whole Karen thing etc but many white women are trash so whatever. It's not like they get dunked on as much as white men. I haven't really paid attention to people denouncing the Karen stereotype besides:


Love that it triggered Julie Bindel tbh.

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 02:12 AM
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Also yeah someone posted that video earlier in another thread and I thought it was pretty pathetic, it's annoying when cis women do this they also do this kind of thing against trans women. Anyway I'm not sure how this topic can really be discussed without breaking the rules like I have no idea if my posts are over the line quite probably.

It's a useful discussion to have, though as with all these things they tend to just end up being used for divide and conquer tactics instead...

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 03:23 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Persephone The Dread View Post
It's a useful discussion to have, though as with all these things they tend to just end up being used for divide and conquer tactics instead...



Well, I certainly hope no one would be ignominious enough to employ that tactic. My purpose with this thread is to provoke thought regarding the process of stereotyping. I loathe stereotypes because they devalue individuality.



Part of the reason I dislike Reddit is that there are a number of subreddits that actively promote existing stereotypes or they promote the creation of new ones (i.e. r/starterpacks).
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cringy Snowflake View Post
Well, I certainly hope no one would be ignominious enough to employ that tactic. My purpose with this thread is to provoke thought regarding the process of stereotyping. I loathe stereotypes because they devalue individuality.



Part of the reason I dislike Reddit is that there are a number of subreddits that actively promote existing stereotypes or they promote the creation of new ones (i.e. r/starterpacks).
Well I don't think it would be easy to get rid of because people, especially marginalised groups, also enjoy them because it gives them a sense of belonging. Stuff kind of dies quickly these days though.

I've ended up on that subreddit before. They all seem pretty young because the stuff posted is often centred around people born in the mid/late 90s or later.

This is ironic in how specific it is:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starterpack...d_to_portland/



'stealing these'

lol yeah. I mean we don't have home depot in my country but still yeah.

Some people heard my words and thought it meant they knew me
Truth is, I don't exist, I'm just a soundtrack to your movie
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And what I feel's just felt for you to hear me ****ing spit it
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 03:56 AM Thread Starter
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Well I don't think it would be easy to get rid of because people, especially marginalised groups, also enjoy them because it gives them a sense of belonging. Stuff kind of dies quickly these days though.

I've ended up on that subreddit before. They all seem pretty young because the stuff posted is often centred around people born in the mid/late 90s or later.



It would be useful to teach kids to think about thinking earlier on perhaps, so that they can recognize logical fallacies that can help lead to such things as stereotypes. Or, they would at least help provide a better perspective in regards to them. There's also obviously an instinctual factor -- namely, tribalism. It's useful to sum up rival tribes with insulting generalizations.



To break down the recognition of patterns so that they're more in accordance with the scientific method would be useful also, but it's probably unrealistic.



Yes, I realize some stereotypes can be funny, and comedians often play around with them for laughs.



I don't know. I don't want to be puritanical about it. What's the happy medium?
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
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Some stereotypes are obviously worse than others, but I think the primary problem is the process of stereotyping itself. Many of us gleefully cheer on stereotypes that allow us to feel superior, while becoming outraged at stereotypes we could potentially be lumped into or offends our salient cultural sensibilities.



I find the "Karen" stereotype interesting because it's not only benign compared to insulting black stereotypes, but because some in the mainstream media have come to denounce it. I don't recall them denouncing new or new-ish white male stereotypes over the last decade. But, when undesirable white women are stereotyped, well, this apparently cannot stand, except apparently when this respected columnist that's black generalizes them (It will be interesting to see what the full reaction to this column will be).



It would be far more preferable if we could transcend the need to stereotype at all. It results in sloppy thinking and promotes intolerance, prejudice, and hate. This should be obvious, right? Unfortunately, it apparently isn't to many, and I'm not sure it's possible to effectively deter the process of stereotyping. I'm not sure I can prevent myself from stereotyping others.



I don't know. What do you think of all this?
I tend to think these kind of stereotypes (not others, meant for comedy or satire, though could be related) are the natural ways that all people explain what's happening in the world around them; the social problems/grievances.
Nobody is going to go through an entire shpiel about the technicalities of a social problem, but you can make the problem understandable enough when you give a nickname to the type of person that exhibits some objectionable behaviour. I tend to believe that is one of the hallmarks of humans' culture creation abilities.

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I don't recall them denouncing new or new-ish white male stereotypes over the last decade.
I think the term "incel" probably applies in this case. Again, it is meant to represent a person performing some objectionable behaviour. "predator" might also be a stereotypical word nowadays, and there's probably others.

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 11:56 AM
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Eh it's obvious that they're having a moment with white women like the white women extinction button meme, the whole Karen thing etc but many white women are trash so whatever. It's not like they get dunked on as much as white men. I haven't really paid attention to people denouncing the Karen stereotype besides:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPvAnDo3C0E

Love that it triggered Julie Bindel tbh.
It's a shame especially for anyone called Karen though, it's a perfectly nice name. Not very chav-associated, I don't think?

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 12:26 PM
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i'm ambivalent when it comes to stereotyping.

but whoa, this statement really shook me

Quote:
This was not innocent nor benign nor divorced from historical context. Throughout history, white women have used the violence of white men and the institutions these men control as their own muscle.
i've seen women threaten to wield and/or wield men as their personal weapons before and i've noticed that these men happily oblige; it's really terrifying.

also i saw that central park, ny video and what that woman did was so threatening and absolutely unacceptable and ahhhhhhhhprshghrgpiu the consequences could have been so grave.

and i'm glad her dog's not hers anymore.



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Eh it's obvious that they're having a moment with white women like the white women extinction button meme, the whole Karen thing etc but many white women are trash so whatever. It's not like they get dunked on as much as white men. I haven't really paid attention to people denouncing the Karen stereotype besides:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPvAnDo3C0E

Love that it triggered Julie Bindel tbh.
 






ftr, i've only known two karens/carons in my life; one was east asian and the other was black. i do feel really sorry for the ppl named that who're caught in the crosshairs. how are you supposed to react to your name being an insult.

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It's a shame especially for anyone called Karen though, it's a perfectly nice name. Not very chav-associated, I don't think?
the stereotype isn't really connected to chav at all at least as I've seen it used, it's usually applied to middle aged middle class liberal women who complain about working class people. But it's probable that it means different things to different people. Also yeah, like Chad is also ruined and Stacey. I used to know a Stacey who was nothing like Stacey too (short brown hair, liked video games etc,) and one of my aunts is called Karen lol.

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ftr, i've only known two karens/carons in my life; one was east asian and the other was black. i do feel really sorry for the ppl named that who're caught in the crosshairs. how are you supposed to react to your name being an insult.
I remember stumbling on either a YouTube comment or a twitter thread where people were responding that they all knew a Karen and mostly she was Asian so that was interesting/weird. My aunt is a white Karen though lol. Everyone should have dog managers. Nobody would expect the dogs, everyone would expect the cats.

Also yeah:

Quote:
i'm ambivalent when it comes to stereotyping.

but whoa, this statement really shook me

Quote:
This was not innocent nor benign nor divorced from historical context. Throughout history, white women have used the violence of white men and the institutions these men control as their own muscle.
I know it wasn't really the point of the thread (it had a different name based on the article before when I made my first post,) but that's something I've noticed a lot so I appreciate that the person writing the article kind of articulated it.

It's also a fundamental focus of white nationalism that women should choose to reject like 'we're doing all of this for you.' Um no thanks. Bye. (I mean they're only doing it for me when I'm a white woman, not when I'm a 'white creepy degenerate evil tranny/lesbian/feminist' or whatever stuff they lump together and dislike lol. They've very recently decided to try and recruit white lesbian women though but this is all off topic alt-right political stuff.)

Some people heard my words and thought it meant they knew me
Truth is, I don't exist, I'm just a soundtrack to your movie
Some background figure in a story that's already scripted
And what I feel's just felt for you to hear me ****ing spit it
I jump in many different heads through these words and poems
Always hoping maybe the next leap'll be my leap home

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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 02:05 PM
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I think it's particularly helpful, like when you want a word for jerk, you have the word for it, it is the evolution of language and how we represent ideas. I don't think you should end stereotyping. It gives us general easy to use words for complex ideas that would be far too lengthy to express otherwise.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 02:23 PM
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I remember stumbling on either a YouTube comment or a twitter thread where people were responding that they all knew a Karen and mostly she was Asian so that was interesting/weird. My aunt is a white Karen though lol. Everyone should have dog managers. Nobody would expect the dogs, everyone would expect the cats.
oh, i dunno. if you're in a bar—shouting match, you'll def want the dog lol

Quote:
I know it wasn't really the point of the thread (it had a different name based on the article before when I made my first post,) but that's something I've noticed a lot so I appreciate that the person writing the article kind of articulated it.

It's also a fundamental focus of white nationalism that women should choose to reject like 'we're doing all of this for you.' Um no thanks. Bye. (I mean they're only doing it for me when I'm a white woman, not when I'm a 'white creepy degenerate evil tranny/lesbian/feminist' or whatever stuff they lump together and dislike lol. They've very recently decided to try and recruit white lesbian women though but this is all off topic alt-right political stuff.)
not gonna lie, the focus of white nationalism as it relates to women isn't something i'm familiar with so i don't follow this. wanna elaborate real quick?

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It would be useful to teach kids to think
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I loathe stereotypes because they devalue individuality.
Was just talking about this with my friend yesterday. If you're thinking about a person in terms of a stereotype (class), you've dehumanized them. First you dehumanize someone by defining them in terms of their class, then you demonize them by associating a threat narrative with their class (or reminding them of an existing narrative).

Pretty much everybody does this and I don't really think there's a solution. I think the best thing you can do is always treat the person you're directly interacting with as a person and not a class and remind anyone who is doing it to you that you are a person, not a class. It's really hard for people not to think in terms of classes.

I try to think in terms of classes of behaviors or beliefs, as opposed to visible demographics: "everyone who believes X" or "everyone who does Y". Those are specific and refer to the problematic belief or act itself, as opposed to a generic class of people (the "sin" not the "sinner"). "I can't stand people who think X" or "people who do Y are creeps." Ofc, it's easy to abuse.

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i've seen women threaten to wield and/or wield men as their personal weapons before and i've noticed that these men happily oblige; it's really terrifying.
When I was in hs a girl tried to convince her bf to beat me up but he wouldn't do it.

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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 03:12 PM
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oh, i dunno. if you're in a bar—shouting match, you'll def want the dog lol



not gonna lie, the focus of white nationalism as it relates to women isn't something i'm familiar with so i don't follow this. wanna elaborate real quick?
I mean it's kind of a meme with them to emphasise how women are in danger and being raped/assaulted constantly by foreign men or non-white men. It's the second thing they appeal to after/including 'the children™' they also have a problem with attracting women to their ideology so use a lot of underhanded manipulative means to do that.

Some people heard my words and thought it meant they knew me
Truth is, I don't exist, I'm just a soundtrack to your movie
Some background figure in a story that's already scripted
And what I feel's just felt for you to hear me ****ing spit it
I jump in many different heads through these words and poems
Always hoping maybe the next leap'll be my leap home

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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 03:34 PM
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It would be useful to teach kids to think about thinking earlier on perhaps, so that they can recognize logical fallacies that can help lead to such things as stereotypes. Or, they would at least help provide a better perspective in regards to them. There's also obviously an instinctual factor -- namely, tribalism. It's useful to sum up rival tribes with insulting generalizations.



To break down the recognition of patterns so that they're more in accordance with the scientific method would be useful also, but it's probably unrealistic.



Yes, I realize some stereotypes can be funny, and comedians often play around with them for laughs.



I don't know. I don't want to be puritanical about it. What's the happy medium?
Actually they don't really teach critical thinking in schools in many places, or thinking generally, so yes that probably would be a start lol.

There is probably a distinction between in and outgroup stereotyping, but I haven't thought about it a lot. Maybe that's a slightly different thing though I mean comedians sometimes use them to create social bonding (if you fail to do that effectively than you fail at comedy. People complain that nobody has a sense of humour now but this is kind of secondary to cultural cohesion breaking down. The more atomised people are the less they have in common, the less they relate to people, the less they trust people, the less they share things like a sense of humour.)

Some people heard my words and thought it meant they knew me
Truth is, I don't exist, I'm just a soundtrack to your movie
Some background figure in a story that's already scripted
And what I feel's just felt for you to hear me ****ing spit it
I jump in many different heads through these words and poems
Always hoping maybe the next leap'll be my leap home

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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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Was just talking about this with my friend yesterday. If you're thinking about a person in terms of a stereotype (class), you've dehumanized them. First you dehumanize someone by defining them in terms of their class, then you demonize them by associating a threat narrative with their class (or reminding them of an existing narrative).

Pretty much everybody does this and I don't really think there's a solution. I think the best thing you can do is always treat the person you're directly interacting with as a person and not a class and remind anyone who is doing it to you that you are a person, not a class. It's really hard for people not to think in terms of classes.

I try to think in terms of classes of behaviors or beliefs, as opposed to visible demographics: "everyone who believes X" or "everyone who does Y". Those are specific and refer to the problematic belief or act itself, as opposed to a generic class of people (the "sin" not the "sinner"). "I can't stand people who think X" or "people who do Y are creeps." Ofc, it's easy to abuse.

Yes. This. Thank you. It's a bit difficult to remind them that I'm an individual when there's a group harassing me.
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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Actually they don't really teach critical thinking in schools in many places, or thinking generally, so yes that probably would be a start lol.

I meant philosophy when I posted "think about thinking."


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People complain that nobody has a sense of humour now but this is kind of secondary to cultural cohesion breaking down. The more atomised people are the less they have in common, the less they relate to people, the less they trust people, the less they share things like a sense of humour.

This is a really interesting point. Thanks for the food for thought.
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-30-2020, 01:29 PM
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When I was in hs a girl tried to convince her bf to beat me up but he wouldn't do it.


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I mean it's kind of a meme with them to emphasise how women are in danger and being raped/assaulted constantly by foreign men or non-white men. It's the second thing they appeal to after/including 'the children™' they also have a problem with attracting women to their ideology so use a lot of underhanded manipulative means to do that.
ah, okay. i've definitely heard of this <____<

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