religious allowances erode individualist rights - Social Anxiety Forum
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
desperado
 
discoveryother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Language: english, but all in lower case
Posts: 1,925
My Mood: Innocent

religious allowances erode individualist rights


my argument is based on something that happened to me when i was at university - i was asked to remove my hat while a girl wearing a head scarf was not asked to remove it.

and here is the rule from the university's website: "Caps or hats are not to be worn in the examination room. The only exceptions to this rule are those head coverings required on religious grounds."

this seems to based on the idea of religious tolerance. but individuals all have different customs and beliefs, some of them being non-religious. can't an individual hold strong beliefs about their hat which aren't derived from religion?

to me, the exception is granted out of a "might is right" mindset - religious people have a big group of outraged peers to back them up when their rights are denied. whereas an individual may have no such backup. it is a reactionary concession to them, rather than a well thought out part of the rule.

i feel like it would be a little bit ludicrous for an individual to be attached to their hat so strongly (why if they are not religious?)... but as absurd as it is, why should religious reasons be given special status over other reasons?

i'm sure this exception exists elsewhere.

more than eroding individual rights, it enforces the idea that we as individuals aren't meant to create our own meaning in the world. we must either take a religion or give up having beliefs. or if we do have beliefs, we are not allowed to have conviction in those beliefs.

:/
discoveryother is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 07:43 PM
Resist
 
nubly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Surviving the trumpocalypse
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,132
My Mood: Tired
Leave it to conservatives to believe removing your hat indoors is violating your rights

I get the point you're making but people that complain about this come up with ridiculous examples.

TRE45ON

"One thing he (Trump) does know is how to get angry, white men to vote for him."- Bill Clinton

Without question the worst president we’ve ever had- Harry Reid on trump.

No question, Trump is racist.- America's heroine Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

All roads with you lead to Putin.- Pelosi to trump on his treason

#WeAccept
#MakeRacistsAfraidAgain
#NotMyPresident


Recognize human trafficking:
http://www.dhs.gov/blue-campaign
nubly is online now  
post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 08:08 PM
Not A Low Calorie Food
 
WillYouStopDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: United States
Gender: Male
Age: 46
Posts: 28,635
My Mood: Relaxed
In general, I agree. But atheists don't GAF about individual rights any more than religious people do when it comes right down to it. At the end of the day if your individuality conflicts with whatever is deemed to be more important, you're screwed. Doesn't matter who you're dealing with.

/WYSD
WillYouStopDave is online now  
 
post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
desperado
 
discoveryother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Language: english, but all in lower case
Posts: 1,925
My Mood: Innocent
Quote:
Originally Posted by nubly View Post
Leave it to conservatives to believe removing your hat indoors is violating your rights

I get the point you're making but people that complain about this come up with ridiculous examples.
well i mean if i have trichotillomania i might really really want to wear a hat. there are other good reasons i might want to wear a hat most of the time.

its the nature of the argument that makes the examples ridiculous. you don't care about your hat. a lot of people don't, and you think it's ridiculous to care about your hat. but the point is that someone should be allowed to care about their hat if other people are allowed to. and the rules should reflect that.

:/
discoveryother is offline  
post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
desperado
 
discoveryother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Language: english, but all in lower case
Posts: 1,925
My Mood: Innocent
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillYouStopDave View Post
In general, I agree. But atheists don't GAF about individual rights any more than religious people do when it comes right down to it. At the end of the day if your individuality conflicts with whatever is deemed to be more important, you're screwed. Doesn't matter who you're dealing with.
except in this case, religious people's individuality has been deemed to be more important that anyone else's individuality.

when self-expression gets in the way of safety, safety comes first. when hat wearing enables cheating, the integrity of the exams should come first OR hat wearing should come first. not one for some and the other for the rest.

:/
discoveryother is offline  
post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 08:28 PM
SAS Member
 
andy0128's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Europe
Gender: Male
Age: 39
Posts: 5,616
You have no power to change things or defend yourself as an individual. This is why people group together and "always" will to get what they want.
andy0128 is offline  
post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
desperado
 
discoveryother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Language: english, but all in lower case
Posts: 1,925
My Mood: Innocent
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy0128 View Post
You have no power to change things or defend yourself as an individual. This is why people group together and "always" will to get what they want.
i accept the reality of "might is right" as being the real way that the world functions.

but the power of being part of the group of reasonable and rational people does mean something, and people's assent of my argument creates more power within this group. institutions, especially universities, should act in an unbiased way, and value rational debate.

:/
discoveryother is offline  
post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 08:46 PM
SAS Member
 
novalax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Virginia
Gender: Male
Age: 22
Posts: 2,456
That rule is patently ridiculous.
novalax is offline  
post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 09:35 PM
Not A Low Calorie Food
 
WillYouStopDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: United States
Gender: Male
Age: 46
Posts: 28,635
My Mood: Relaxed
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy1984thesecond View Post
except in this case, religious people's individuality has been deemed to be more important that anyone else's individuality.
See. That's where you're not understanding what you're dealing with. You're not dealing with individuality. You're dealing with collectivism. They are deciding that the rights of the group override your individual rights simply because there are more of them who care about having things their way and there's only one of you.

That's exactly how things are going to go anytime you're faced with a situation in which you are the "oddball" (For lack of a better term) and you're in the domain of a group of people with a common bond. It's not because they are right. It's because they don't have to care. If there are a hundred of them and one of you, you'll take your hat off. If there are ten of them and one of you, you'll take your hat off. They will decide what is more important and there is where the problem is. They don't HAVE to have a good reason because tradition has given the majority the ultimate say in what goes down. Whether it's the best excuse in the world or the dumbest ****ing **** you've ever heard is irrelevant.

/WYSD
WillYouStopDave is online now  
post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 09:41 PM
SAS's Chief Meteorologist
 
Maslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Denver
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,542
Andy, just tell them your religion requires you to wear the hat.

Nobody loves me but my dog, and I think he might be jivin', too.
Maslow is offline  
post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 09:54 PM
SAS Member
 
Tetragammon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Utah, USA
Language: English, ちょっとだけ日本語, Java, C#
Gender: Male
Age: 35
Posts: 1,264
I thought you were an apologist?

I agree allowances for religious crap are ridiculous. But the same thing applies in a lot of areas, and not just for Muslims. Like Christians putting up religious displays in public areas, i.e. nativity scenes in public parks. Xtians seem to think they should be ubiquitous, and yet they cry bloody murder when, say, Satanists put up monuments. It's laughable.

Every religious group thinks they and they alone deserve special rights. Because they've got The Truth™.

"Churches ... appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.." -Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
Tetragammon is offline  
post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 09:54 PM
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Gender: Female
Age: 30
Posts: 1,471
Do you have any deeply held religious beliefs that you are forced to violate in order to go to school, or that an accommodation won't be made for you to practice them? I'm guessing you don't, which is why you're complaining about hats. See, there's this concept called privilege. It's interesting, society bends over backwards to accommodate you, while it bends some others over to **** them in *** daily, but you are so privileged that you can't bear the thought that not everything is built to accommodate you, that sometimes other people get a little of the benefit you get constantly.
Carolyne is offline  
post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 10:02 PM
SAS's Chief Meteorologist
 
Maslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Denver
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyne View Post
Do you have any deeply held religious beliefs that you are forced to violate in order to go to school, or that an accommodation won't be made for you to practice them? I'm guessing you don't, which is why you're complaining about hats. See, there's this concept called privilege. It's interesting, society bends over backwards to accommodate you, while it bends some others over to **** them in *** daily, but you are so privileged that you can't bear the thought that not everything is built to accommodate you, that sometimes other people get a little of the benefit you get constantly.
School is a place of learning. Religious people can practice all they want at home, but at school, everyone is the same. No one should have special rights or be discriminated against.

Nobody loves me but my dog, and I think he might be jivin', too.
Maslow is offline  
post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 10:06 PM
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Gender: Female
Age: 30
Posts: 1,471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maslow View Post
School is a place of learning. Religious people can practice all they want at home, but at school, everyone is the same. No one should have special rights or be discriminated against.
Just interesting how this only gets brought up when it's something like a head covering, and not brought up when, you know, semesters and vacations completely revolve around the major christian holidays. Start complaining that you want classes on december 25 and then maybe I'll take it seriously.
Carolyne is offline  
post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 10:14 PM
SAS Member
 
millenniumman75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dayton, OH
Gender: Male
Age: 44
Posts: 152,934
My Mood: Angelic
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy1984thesecond View Post
my argument is based on something that happened to me when i was at university - i was asked to remove my hat while a girl wearing a head scarf was not asked to remove it.

and here is the rule from the university's website: "Caps or hats are not to be worn in the examination room. The only exceptions to this rule are those head coverings required on religious grounds."

this seems to based on the idea of religious tolerance. but individuals all have different customs and beliefs, some of them being non-religious. can't an individual hold strong beliefs about their hat which aren't derived from religion?

to me, the exception is granted out of a "might is right" mindset - religious people have a big group of outraged peers to back them up when their rights are denied. whereas an individual may have no such backup. it is a reactionary concession to them, rather than a well thought out part of the rule.

i feel like it would be a little bit ludicrous for an individual to be attached to their hat so strongly (why if they are not religious?)... but as absurd as it is, why should religious reasons be given special status over other reasons?

i'm sure this exception exists elsewhere.

more than eroding individual rights, it enforces the idea that we as individuals aren't meant to create our own meaning in the world. we must either take a religion or give up having beliefs. or if we do have beliefs, we are not allowed to have conviction in those beliefs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nubly View Post
Leave it to conservatives to believe removing your hat indoors is violating your rights

I get the point you're making but people that complain about this come up with ridiculous examples.
Actually, it is more a chivalrous act than a religious one.

millenniumman75
You are a success story waiting to happen!
Live and let live VACUUMS more than a Hoover....
Live and HELP live is better!

TROLL ALERT STATUS:
CHAT -> BERT

FORUMS -> ERNIE
(troll activity on the increase)

WATCH WHAT YOU TYPE!
millenniumman75 is offline  
post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
desperado
 
discoveryother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Language: english, but all in lower case
Posts: 1,925
My Mood: Innocent
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyne View Post
Do you have any deeply held religious beliefs that you are forced to violate in order to go to school, or that an accommodation won't be made for you to practice them? I'm guessing you don't, which is why you're complaining about hats. See, there's this concept called privilege. It's interesting, society bends over backwards to accommodate you, while it bends some others over to **** them in *** daily, but you are so privileged that you can't bear the thought that not everything is built to accommodate you, that sometimes other people get a little of the benefit you get constantly.
not sure what you're objecting to? i was arguing for the rules to better accommodate everyone.

how are people getting ****ed in the ***?

:/
discoveryother is offline  
post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 11:10 PM
Winter Is Here
 
eukz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Chile
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Posts: 3,854
My Mood: Drunk
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillYouStopDave View Post
But atheists don't GAF about individual rights any more than religious people do when it comes right down to it.
That's highly inaccurate. A huge part of religious people are making a big deal just because gays are getting married, while I'm not seeing atheists asking for privileges.

When one person suffers from a delusion it's called insanity.
When many people suffer from a delusion it's called a Religion.
eukz is offline  
post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 11:12 PM
Winter Is Here
 
eukz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Chile
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Posts: 3,854
My Mood: Drunk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maslow View Post
Andy, just tell them your religion requires you to wear the hat.
???

When one person suffers from a delusion it's called insanity.
When many people suffer from a delusion it's called a Religion.
eukz is offline  
post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 11:17 PM Thread Starter
desperado
 
discoveryother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Language: english, but all in lower case
Posts: 1,925
My Mood: Innocent
Quote:
Originally Posted by eukz View Post
???
i'll become a pastafarian


:/
discoveryother is offline  
post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-01-2017, 11:30 PM
Winter Is Here
 
eukz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Chile
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Posts: 3,854
My Mood: Drunk
I agree with OP. IMHO only a mad person would make a big deal just because they're not being privileged.

When one person suffers from a delusion it's called insanity.
When many people suffer from a delusion it's called a Religion.
eukz is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BF doesn't want to get married because her not religious Skeletra Relationships 17 08-17-2016 08:14 PM
Denmark bans Halal and Kosher meat as 'animal rights come before religion' SaladDays Society & Culture 26 06-10-2016 04:45 PM
Virginia Gov. restores voting rights to felons Cletis Society & Culture 9 04-23-2016 04:19 PM
Weeklong prostitution ring rescues 149 children from sex trafficking in 135 cities. nubly Society & Culture 18 03-26-2016 05:52 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome