RANT Why don't they just cancel miss America if it's no longer a beauty pageant ? - Page 2 - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Micronian View Post
The original argument was that it was another example of changing the rules to competition. That without a visual element, sexualized as it may be, a beauty contest loses much of its meaning all thanks to the rule change.

and because beauty is so visual, and a very important element to human mating and procreation for both sexes (outside of the economic/liberal/feminist/masculinist forces that play upon it), I can't see this rule change being so appealing to women either. I'm sure even those women who are into such contests are less than thrilled over the rule change.

For what it's worth, I remember sometime in the early 90s they eliminated the swimsuit portion in the Miss Canada pageant. I don't think it's on TV anymore.
Someone gets it. My point in this thread was...geez how much more can I explain this:

THE VOICE : is a singing contest, after blind auditions the contestants' sob stories (everyone needs an appealing sad story)...and physical appearance begin to take weight...but the focus is always on the singing ability.

In other performing arts competitions it is the same thing.

In sports it is the same thing. An athlete doesn't have to be beautiful, but it certainly helps their career if they are beautiful too.

A pageant is about beauty. Physical beauty. Call it shallow, or what you want...but that is what it is. So if you are uncomfortable with that, then kindly move to a different industry. But please do not take over the pageant, rename it "competition" and claim its not a beauty contest (yes they are actually saying that now )

If Miss America is not a beauty contest; then World's Strongest Man is not a strength contest.

I used body building because it is another event highly based on physical appearance. OBVIOUSLY body-building and pageantry are not exactly 100% equal...but I think the two events are similar enough for the sake of this argument. WHICH IS THIS

Since some are getting triggered lets use some friendlier terms;

The appearance of ideal physical fitness is integral to both pageantry and body building. Any claim otherwise is appealing to ignorance.

So to eliminate the rounds of the event that show off one's physique makes the entire show pointless.

A Miss America with neither swimwear nor evening gown, and where looks don't matter ...is no different from a talent show.

A bodybuilding contest without the men posing in their trunks, where muscle definition does not matter...is no different from a strength contest.
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 03:58 AM
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Just dump it, its useless now there are many different categories of bodybuilding, bikini has basically subsumed this crap, but at least they have to train and it's not just a glorified old man / judge ****ing competition..

bikini - figure- physique - bodybuilding

It's less patronising (though still is), but women don't have to do nonsense like "demonstrate they have talent" lol, like its something "impossible for an attractive woman to have". "OMFG she is pretty but also has a degree and can juggle, WTF ITS IMPOSSIBLE". So ****ing bizarre. Female figure and physique are slightly less creepy old man and there is something akin to a mens equivalent (physique), though imo they should call bikini something else and introduce the equivalent mens category for men who don't want to take steroids (there's natural bodybuilding, but it's not natural).

Enough about me, lets talk about you, what do you think about me?
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 08:17 AM
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@/Micronian @/VIncymon So let's dwelve into this very important and interesting, brain-challenging topic and see what other extremely intellectual thoughts you and other guys have to share with us. Oh and what else you can say is better for women because you don't have to have to be one to know this. In fact if you have to not be one to know better.

@/SplendidBob It's not a rocket science such contests are useless without sexism that is deemed unaccaptable and old-fashioned right now (while in other places it's super acceptable and rebranded as ''empowering'', as I said before) because the entire reason they were created was sexist. It's just making the same thing less offensive and slightly modified (to ignorant public that knows nothing about feminism) so it's not so outvert anymore in a climate of PC. Jesus let's have another 10 pages of trying to figure it out and you guys talking about that because you sure love it. My God, this is ridiculous.... #BringOurProperBeautyContestsBack

It's actually women who have to think and talk about their socialization that makes them servants in one way or another and how to change it. For example, how to actually do things and not to fall into narcissistic trap like this rebranded talent (and looks ) show (Simone de Beauvoir ''The Second Sex'' volume II Chapter ''The Narcissist''). (#NotAllWomen in 21st century narcissistically envision themselves doing things instead of being emerged into them 100%, I know. Still where it exists it's a gendered issue and it shouldn't be perpetuated and recreated on a cultural scale)

Sorry not sorry
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Don't you just love how sexual objectification is only a problem when its a woman doing it..even if she chooses to work a certain industry of her own volition.

Sex sells it always has, and always will.
The USA is a capitalist country. Many pop singers Male AND female know this and use it to their advantage.

Seriously...it amazes me how people can simultaneously criticize the religious for sexual repression, criticize churches for policing how their women dress, push against sl0t shaming, push for a sl0t march,YET have a problem with women wearing sexy outfits in a pageant. How can anyone NOT see the irony.

It's like...when that woke celebrity promoted a sex-strike as a liberal response to an overly conservative abortion bill. A sex strike is abstinence. Abstinence is what conservatives preach.

Any claims to 'modesty' in how a woman dresses publicly is actually more of a conservative response.

So yes...I find it very ironic, that those who claims to be feminists and championing women's rights and autonomy, want to restrict what women want to wear.

It is this same weird logic that lost grid-girls their jobs
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/547436...ie-ecclestone/

You cannot say on one side of your mouth, "women should be able to dress how they want when they want, be sexually liberated and be free of harrassment" yet on the other side of your mouth say "women should not participate in any jobs which we think requires them to dress inappropriately or act sexually"

What about models ? What about cheerleaders ? Should the entire modelling industry be scrapped because the models wear skimpy outfits ?

IF there is rampant sexual harrassment amongst gridgirls ( and the vocal ones who have come out..INSIST that there isn't) ...then that issue needs to be addressed, they shouldn't lose their jobs for this.

Ironically this is punishing the victims instead of the perpetrators...precisely what feminists accuse conservatives of doing when they talk about 'modest street clothes' as related to the issue of rape& sexual harrassment.

What is the point of the Pill, Women's Lib, and the sexual revolution, if feminists are now preaching a new type of puritanism....you have gone so far left that you are preaching right !
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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by SplendidBob View Post
Just dump it, its useless now there are many different categories of bodybuilding, bikini has basically subsumed this crap, but at least they have to train and it's not just a glorified old man / judge ****ing competition..

bikini - figure- physique - bodybuilding

It's less patronising (though still is), but women don't have to do nonsense like "demonstrate they have talent" lol, like its something "impossible for an attractive woman to have". "OMFG she is pretty but also has a degree and can juggle, WTF ITS IMPOSSIBLE". So ****ing bizarre. Female figure and physique are slightly less creepy old man and there is something akin to a mens equivalent (physique), though imo they should call bikini something else and introduce the equivalent mens category for men who don't want to take steroids (there's natural bodybuilding, but it's not natural).
Well there is nothing (in mainstream media at least,) where men just stand around acting like idiots without demonstrating a skill. They definitely wouldn't make it into a competition, but then again competitions against other people are pointless in the first place because we don't have control over genetics so...

So it's not that it's impossible it's just nobody gives a **** about their talent and they should. And they should care about their own too, they often don't, or attempt to minimise it.

Transwomen do it too you know, intelligent transwomen. They want to fit in more, so they change themselves to seem less intelligent and idolise less intelligent women and spend all their time obsessing about their appearance even though they're intelligent and people keep telling them they look good. There's a very popular YouTuber who has been gradually doing this for a few years now. I find it tragic.

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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 02:52 PM
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Beauty pageants seem fitting to me because it seems like life as a female is one, big competition with other females anyway.
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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIncymon View Post
Don't you just love how sexual objectification is only a problem when its a woman doing it..even if she chooses to work a certain industry of her own volition.

Sex sells it always has, and always will.
The USA is a capitalist country. Many pop singers Male AND female know this and use it to their advantage.

Seriously...it amazes me how people can simultaneously criticize the religious for sexual repression, criticize churches for policing how their women dress, push against sl0t shaming, push for a sl0t march,YET have a problem with women wearing sexy outfits in a pageant. How can anyone NOT see the irony.

It's like...when that woke celebrity promoted a sex-strike as a liberal response to an overly conservative abortion bill. A sex strike is abstinence. Abstinence is what conservatives preach.

Any claims to 'modesty' in how a woman dresses publicly is actually more of a conservative response.

So yes...I find it very ironic, that those who claims to be feminists and championing women's rights and autonomy, want to restrict what women want to wear.

It is this same weird logic that lost grid-girls their jobs
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/547436...ie-ecclestone/

You cannot say on one side of your mouth, "women should be able to dress how they want when they want, be sexually liberated and be free of harrassment" yet on the other side of your mouth say "women should not participate in any jobs which we think requires them to dress inappropriately or act sexually"

What about models ? What about cheerleaders ? Should the entire modelling industry be scrapped because the models wear skimpy outfits ?

IF there is rampant sexual harrassment amongst gridgirls ( and the vocal ones who have come out..INSIST that there isn't) ...then that issue needs to be addressed, they shouldn't lose their jobs for this.

Ironically this is punishing the victims instead of the perpetrators...precisely what feminists accuse conservatives of doing when they talk about 'modest street clothes' as related to the issue of rape& sexual harrassment.

What is the point of the Pill, Women's Lib, and the sexual revolution, if feminists are now preaching a new type of puritanism....you have gone so far left that you are preaching right !
I don't think left/right is a good way of looking at modern Western society at all. Now this is going to get very nerdy.

I'm not a neoreactionary at all value wise (I sort of move loosely between ideas that would be considered under 'the cathedral' and techno-commercialist, under this diagram and am approximately 0% nationalist or theonomist classic) but I quite like some of their models, in particular the concept Nick Land came up with (edit: nevermind someone else came up with it, he just posted about it,) to subdivide the different altright/neoreaction stances:

http://www.xenosystems.net/trichotomy/

and the idea of 'the cathedral' (Moldbug,) as a corrupted form of what originally was the theonomy. I believe that explains the overlap people see somewhat.

This video by a robot sort of describes things a bit:



In terms of what I want to bring forth, I actually think I'm going to refer to the magic the gathering colour system because neoreactionaries strike me, with the exception of the techno-commercialists (what is a tribe?) as green (deep heritage/realism) and maybe black as well so a green/black (that's the ruthless 'Darwinism,') and my own values are more blue haha (shapeshifting/technology/ideaspace.) Techno-commercialism probably fits more into the specific combination of blue/black/green or something. Edit: and the classic form of theonomy was green/white the new form is blue/white (would need to think about that some more though, and I'm not seriously committing to assigning magic colours to society ahahaha.)

Some people heard my words and thought it meant they knew me
Truth is, I don't exist, I'm just a soundtrack to your movie
Some background figure in a story that's already scripted
And what I feel's just felt for you to hear me ****ing spit it
I jump in many different heads through these words and poems
Always hoping maybe the next leap'll be my leap home

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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 01:41 AM
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I don't really care about how they look but the way they act is often offputting to me like robotic puppets.


I don't get bodybuilding either, they go overboard and it's not practical. Body building is certainly not a beauty contest. They never look good.
I don't know about beauty pageants but I slept with a woman who was in Playboy and she looked very unnatural in a way. Women you see walking down the street every day
have more natural classic beauty than a model or a playmate. I ended up dumping the woman in playboy and the sex was terrible, she wasn't passionate at all and it felt like a process.
She also had the personality of a tin can. She was a very sweet girl but had problems.
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
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I don't know about beauty pageants but I slept with a woman who was in Playboy and she looked very unnatural in a way. Women you see walking down the street every day
have more natural classic beauty than a model or a playmate. I ended up dumping the woman in playboy and the sex was terrible, she wasn't passionate at all and it felt like a process.
She also had the personality of a tin can. She was a very sweet girl but had problems.
OK. That's besides the point. I believe all people in any profession should be respected. All professions serve a purpose ...even the one's I would not do myself, I am appreciative of the fact that someone chose to do it.

I don't consider myself above pride and hypocrisy. So yes there are jobs that I consider beneath me...TBH...but i still try my best not to knock on the ppl who do it.

Being in a stereotypical "prestigious" profession doesn't automatically mean the person has a personality of gold, or is a genius otherwise.

I have seen porn stars interviewed on national television, with an engaging personality, articulate and well versed on topics of national interest.
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 09:25 PM
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OK. That's besides the point. I believe all people in any profession should be respected. All professions serve a purpose ...even the one's I would not do myself, I am appreciative of the fact that someone chose to do it.

I don't consider myself above pride and hypocrisy. So yes there are jobs that I consider beneath me...TBH...but i still try my best not to knock on the ppl who do it.

Being in a stereotypical "prestigious" profession doesn't automatically mean the person has a personality of gold, or is a genius otherwise.

I have seen porn stars interviewed on national television, with an engaging personality, articulate and well versed on topics of national interest.
Well her personality has nothing to do with her profession. She is now teaching dentistry at NYU University which is an Ivy League school. I have nothing against if a person is a street sweeper or runs a fortune 500 company, it makes no difference to me. I don't care or pass judgment on what anyone does for a living. I don't remember what my point was, but she did have a terrible personality and no sense of humor. This was a long time ago, and ironically she was the last person i dated who genuinely liked me and didn't care if i spent money on her, i was not attracted to certain things physically on her, and her personality, i don't know what the point is, i guess I was an idiot for letting her go because i have no other prospects and have given up on dating. Again, i could care less what her or anyone else's profession is, and she is now teaching at an Ivy League school, but none of that is even an issue for me
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post #31 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 04:13 AM Thread Starter
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Well her personality has nothing to do with her profession. She is now teaching dentistry at NYU University which is an Ivy League school. I have nothing against if a person is a street sweeper or runs a fortune 500 company, it makes no difference to me. I don't care or pass judgment on what anyone does for a living. I don't remember what my point was, but she did have a terrible personality and no sense of humor. This was a long time ago, and ironically she was the last person i dated who genuinely liked me and didn't care if i spent money on her, i was not attracted to certain things physically on her, and her personality, i don't know what the point is, i guess I was an idiot for letting her go because i have no other prospects and have given up on dating. Again, i could care less what her or anyone else's profession is, and she is now teaching at an Ivy League school, but none of that is even an issue for me
I don't remember what your point was either ? I thought that by the comment you made about the girl's profession and her personality/intelligence...you were insinuating some sort of stereotype about beauty pageant women and lack of intelligence/personality.

But if that wasn't your point..then ??? IDK.

Anyway this new ultra extreme so far left that it's right type of feminism nowadays would make the people from 30 yrs ago laugh.
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post #32 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 12:16 AM
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I don't remember what your point was either ? I thought that by the comment you made about the girl's profession and her personality/intelligence...you were insinuating some sort of stereotype about beauty pageant women and lack of intelligence/personality.

But if that wasn't your point..then ??? IDK.

Anyway this new ultra extreme so far left that it's right type of feminism nowadays would make the people from 30 yrs ago laugh.
I dunno i guess my point was that models and cheerleaders have a certain look but it doesn't make them more attractive than any other women you see every day in public. I don't really remember my point but in that woman's case, I initially when i saw her profile was in awe, and when i met her a few times, she had a desperation that was offputting. She looked like she was constantly in the middle of a breakdown like at all times. She had a great job and was able to function but i dunno. She was one of the only women i met in recent years that was willing to actually be with me or sleep with me and not want me to spend a lot of money on dinner and drinks and start drama and be difficult. Ironically i was just bored and annoyed that she didn't challenge me at all. Anything I said she just was on board with, i need someone to call me out on my BS once in a while. I am an idiot because i have not met anyone since her that would have been as easy to deal with, so I guess I am an idiot and am now alone possibly forever. And yea i have no clue what my original point was hehe

With feminism, i guess it is way more extreme, but where I am now, I just am annoyed with every group, gender, everyone seems to have extreme views on things, i just want to be left alone and watch reality TV you know hehe. I think if i was dating, feminism would effect me, is the only reason i would care. I think many women have more and more ideas or misconceptions about men than 20 years ago. I am in New York City but i think if I lived in a small town women would be way less judgmental, so location has a lot to do with it
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